Originally Posted by Angels31 (Post 1192529)

Hi Bryanna,
Do you remember me? I had posted and you answered a couple of months ago after I had teeth #14 and 15 removed that were infected and in my sinus. Believe it or not, I still have a sinus infection! I went off the Bioxin and it came back full force. I went to the doctor and he did a nasal swab which came back with a Pseudomonas Aeruginosa infection. It gave a list of antibiotics and all of them were IV except Levaquin. So I am now going on week 3 of Levaquin and also I am now doing a Tobramycin wash in my sinuses twice a day. This is the 3rd day and it seems a little better. I still have some pain and a lump on my neck that goes up and down on the side of the tooth extraction. But my question is could that bacteria have been caused from the infected teeth? My ENT says absolutely not, but I really question how much he knows about this bacteria because he said bacterim in my nasal wash would wipe it out and everything I have read says it is for MRSA. Tobramycin was on the list so I begged for that. But I have read that an infected tooth can cause different bacterias in your sinus and Pseudomonas was one listed. Or could it be the other way around, the teeth both had root canals. Could the Pseudomonas have caused them to flare up? I am living in a nightmare right now! I just want to be normal again! Thank you for all your help.

Originally Posted by Bryanna (Post 1192538)

Hi Angels,

Yes, I remember you and I am sorry to hear that you are still dealing with this infection!

All physicians and dentists know that oral infections of any area of the mouth, teeth, gums and jawbone have the potential of becoming systemic. ENT doctors frequently collaborate with oral surgeons to treat people who have sinus infections from their infected teeth. So why this ENT is not admitting the probability of this in your case is puzzling to me.

Why did you choose Levaquin oral over the IV antibiotics? Did your doctor (dentist of physician?) discuss the pros and cons about each administration route of medication?

Bryanna

Originally Posted by Angels31 (Post 1192554)

The ENT said that Pseudomonas definitely was not caused from a tooth infection. Do you think it can be? The IV antibiotics have some nasty side effects such as hearing loss and kidney problems. They told me Levaquin is strong and will knock out most sinus infections. I am doing the Tobramycin nasal wash though. That is an IV antibiotic.

Originally Posted by Angels31 (Post 1192554)

The ENT said that Pseudomonas definitely was not caused from a tooth infection. Do you think it can be? The IV antibiotics have some nasty side effects such as hearing loss and kidney problems. They told me Levaquin is strong and will knock out most sinus infections. I am doing the Tobramycin nasal wash though. That is an IV antibiotic.

Originally Posted by bryanna (Post 1192993)

angels,

i glanced back at your original posts about this dental problem and the longevity of the ongoing sinus and tooth problem stems back at least 6 years. Meaning you've had infection in the upper left area of your mouth and sinus for at least that long. When you had the infected root canaled tooth removed in october 2015, the sinus remained infected. So just taking into consideration the longevity and intensity of the infection it is easy to understand why this infection is so intense and complicated. I am glad that you did not decide to treat the sinus infection yourself with herbs or tinctures after the tooth was removed as that would have been a huge mistake.

In cases like yours, there are no easy or direct solutions in the approach to treat this infection. Eradicating the infection completely is going to be difficult and lengthy. It may or may not have been ideal to place the bone graft, we talked about that in the earlier original posts. Some surgeons think the graft helps with the healing in these cases, while others think just the opposite. Some think removing the graft early on is advantageous, others leave it in awhile to see what happens. So the decision is based on the preference of your oral surgeon. Please remind me... Has he done a 3 d dental and head scan?

Also, i know you had planned on putting a dental implant in that #14 spot. I urge you to reconsider that option very carefully as most likely this area of your mouth and sinus is going to be less than optimally healthy for a very long time.

Antibiotics can be life saving medications when used appropriately. However, they are not without risk or systemic complications and some like levaquin can result in a debilitating condition called peripheral neuropathy. I am going to post a link from neurologist dr perlmutter for informational purposes only. My point in bringing this information to the forefront is that it is important to understand the risks of the medications being prescribed so that we can make the best choices for ourselves as the doctors often leave out a lot of this pertinent information when writing out the prescription.

The fact that the culture showed sensitivity to levaquin indicates that at least some of the infectious bacteria will be destroyed by the medication. But this is not a medication that should be prescribed repeatedly by any means. After this prescription another culture of the bacteria should be taken.

Also, each time you take antibiotics, irrelevant of which one, the medication destroys the healthy intestinal bacteria that is essential to sustain a healthy life. You cannot replenish this bacteria by eating foods alone unless you are eating home made kefir derived from non sugar sources on a daily basis. Dr perlmutter has worked with a food and supplement company called garden of life and together they have formulated some very good quality probiotics. You can look at those probiotics several places online, but here are two good sources.... Pureformulas.com and vitacost.com. Probiotics are essential to take during antibiotic therapy and then indefinitely thereafter to not just replenish the healthy bacteria but to keep it thriving in your gut. They should be taken one hour away from the antibiotic to avoid contradiction between the two. Generally taking 2 capsules (one at 2 different times of the day), more if necessary, during the course of taking antibiotics is recommended. Then stay on that regimen for at least 2 weeks after the meds are done. Reduce the dosage to one capsule per day unless you have digestive symptoms indicating to take more. Each person is unique in what they need.

Also, the fact that you are rinsing with an antibiotic mouth rinse means that you are killing off not just the negative bacteria in your mouth, but the positive as well. This will pre dispose you to thrush or other oral infections not just while using it but afterwards as well. Opening up a capsule of the probiotic and putting it in some water just enough to rinse thoroughly with will be helpful at replenishing the good bacteria in the mouth. After using that, do not rinse out and it should be done an hour away from using the antibiotic oral rinse. Ideal if you could do that at night just before bed.

http://www.drperlmutter.com/fluoroqu...al-neuropathy/

regarding when to take the 3d scan.... It's a judgement call by the oral surgeon. He should be aware of the fact that you feel like there is infection way up inside of your head as that may be a symptom that warrants the scan be done now. It's really up to him.

Keep in mind.... Even under ideal conditions with the antibiotics doing there job... This is going to take a long time to heal. However, you should start to feel better, not worse and you should not develop any further symptoms if it is healing.

Hi bryanna,
thank you for such great advice. Yes, i am taking a probiotic called probulin. Supposedly, it is the best out there. I am amazed with all these antibiotics that my stomach isn't all messed up, so they must be helping. I am also drinking a yakult everyday. I read something written by an ent that you should also take a prebiotic. I will look into that. Yes, i am worried about being on levaquin so long, i am on day 16 now and have another 13. He didn't really want to leave me on it that long either but the problem is when i go off, the sinus infection comes back full fledge. Although, i don't feel it is helping much now. I very much feel like there is an infection in my body and it seems to be getting worse, not better. It feels the same as when the teeth were infected. The left side of my neck is swollen and my left ear is ringing. If i didn't know any better i would still think i had an infected tooth. I am wondering if the infection could be trapped in there by the bone graft? I have a call into my ent right now, because on my mri there was a cyst in my left maxillary sinus caused by my tooth infection. I also read that cysts can form after extractions. Could it be that? He said he thought it was just inflammation from the tooth, he put me on this levaquin also the tobramycin wash (for pseudomonas) . I am not putting the tonramycin in my mouth, i am adding it to saline solution that i blow in my nose. It is mixed in with the neil med. The ent had a plan that if i wasn't better in a month that he would do another ct. The last one i had was over the summer and i didn't have my teeth out yet. He said since i had dental work i would need another one. I am going to move that up to now. I really need to know if there is some kind of infection in there. Would a ct scan show if there is some sort of infection with the bone graft? Also, i will not do the implant until everything is healthy. Is it ok to wait? Can i get it done later? At least it isn't visible, but it is a hassle having to eat only on one side. I just really hope i can get to the bottom of this soon, every day is a struggle! Thank you again!

Quote=angels31;1192655]do you think that there could be an infection way up inside above the bone graft? When i went to the oral surgeon on christmas eve he did an x-ray on the teeth and said everything is fine. The site is fine where the stitches are, but i feel like there is an infection way up in my head. I am not sure if a ct scan would show that? What would i get a cut scan of? Sinus and neck? Or could it be that this is taking a really long time to heal, it has been two months since the last bone graft.

Originally Posted by bryanna (Post 1192993)

angels,

i glanced back at your original posts about this dental problem and the longevity of the ongoing sinus and tooth problem stems back at least 6 years. Meaning you've had infection in the upper left area of your mouth and sinus for at least that long. When you had the infected root canaled tooth removed in october 2015, the sinus remained infected. So just taking into consideration the longevity and intensity of the infection it is easy to understand why this infection is so intense and complicated. I am glad that you did not decide to treat the sinus infection yourself with herbs or tinctures after the tooth was removed as that would have been a huge mistake.

In cases like yours, there are no easy or direct solutions in the approach to treat this infection. Eradicating the infection completely is going to be difficult and lengthy. It may or may not have been ideal to place the bone graft, we talked about that in the earlier original posts. Some surgeons think the graft helps with the healing in these cases, while others think just the opposite. Some think removing the graft early on is advantageous, others leave it in awhile to see what happens. So the decision is based on the preference of your oral surgeon. Please remind me... Has he done a 3 d dental and head scan?

Also, i know you had planned on putting a dental implant in that #14 spot. I urge you to reconsider that option very carefully as most likely this area of your mouth and sinus is going to be less than optimally healthy for a very long time.

Antibiotics can be life saving medications when used appropriately. However, they are not without risk or systemic complications and some like levaquin can result in a debilitating condition called peripheral neuropathy. I am going to post a link from neurologist dr perlmutter for informational purposes only. My point in bringing this information to the forefront is that it is important to understand the risks of the medications being prescribed so that we can make the best choices for ourselves as the doctors often leave out a lot of this pertinent information when writing out the prescription.

The fact that the culture showed sensitivity to levaquin indicates that at least some of the infectious bacteria will be destroyed by the medication. But this is not a medication that should be prescribed repeatedly by any means. After this prescription another culture of the bacteria should be taken.

Also, each time you take antibiotics, irrelevant of which one, the medication destroys the healthy intestinal bacteria that is essential to sustain a healthy life. You cannot replenish this bacteria by eating foods alone unless you are eating home made kefir derived from non sugar sources on a daily basis. Dr perlmutter has worked with a food and supplement company called garden of life and together they have formulated some very good quality probiotics. You can look at those probiotics several places online, but here are two good sources.... Pureformulas.com and vitacost.com. Probiotics are essential to take during antibiotic therapy and then indefinitely thereafter to not just replenish the healthy bacteria but to keep it thriving in your gut. They should be taken one hour away from the antibiotic to avoid contradiction between the two. Generally taking 2 capsules (one at 2 different times of the day), more if necessary, during the course of taking antibiotics is recommended. Then stay on that regimen for at least 2 weeks after the meds are done. Reduce the dosage to one capsule per day unless you have digestive symptoms indicating to take more. Each person is unique in what they need.

Also, the fact that you are rinsing with an antibiotic mouth rinse means that you are killing off not just the negative bacteria in your mouth, but the positive as well. This will pre dispose you to thrush or other oral infections not just while using it but afterwards as well. Opening up a capsule of the probiotic and putting it in some water just enough to rinse thoroughly with will be helpful at replenishing the good bacteria in the mouth. After using that, do not rinse out and it should be done an hour away from using the antibiotic oral rinse. Ideal if you could do that at night just before bed.

http://www.drperlmutter.com/fluoroqu...al-neuropathy/

regarding when to take the 3d scan.... It's a judgement call by the oral surgeon. He should be aware of the fact that you feel like there is infection way up inside of your head as that may be a symptom that warrants the scan be done now. It's really up to him.

Keep in mind.... Even under ideal conditions with the antibiotics doing there job... This is going to take a long time to heal. However, you should start to feel better, not worse and you should not develop any further symptoms if it is healing.

Hi bryanna,
thank you for such great advice. Yes, i am taking a probiotic called probulin. Supposedly, it is the best out there. I am amazed with all these antibiotics that my stomach isn't all messed up, so they must be helping. I am also drinking a yakult everyday. I read something written by an ent that you should also take a prebiotic. I will look into that. Yes, i am worried about being on levaquin so long, i am on day 16 now and have another 13. He didn't really want to leave me on it that long either but the problem is when i go off, the sinus infection comes back full fledge. Although, i don't feel it is helping much now. I very much feel like there is an infection in my body and it seems to be getting worse, not better. It feels the same as when the teeth were infected. The left side of my neck is swollen and my left ear is ringing. If i didn't know any better i would still think i had an infected tooth. I am wondering if the infection could be trapped in there by the bone graft? I have a call into my ent right now, because on my mri there was a cyst in my left maxillary sinus caused by my tooth infection. I also read that cysts can form after extractions. Could it be that? He said he thought it was just inflammation from the tooth, he put me on this levaquin also the tobramycin wash (for pseudomonas) . I am not putting the tonramycin in my mouth, i am adding it to saline solution that i blow in my nose. It is mixed in with the neil med. The ent had a plan that if i wasn't better in a month that he would do another ct. The last one i had was over the summer and i didn't have my teeth out yet. He said since i had dental work i would need another one. I am going to move that up to now. I really need to know if there is some kind of infection in there. Would a ct scan show if there is some sort of infection with the bone graft? Also, i will not do the implant until everything is healthy. Is it ok to wait? Can i get it done later? At least it isn't visible, but it is a hassle having to eat only on one side. I just really hope i can get to the bottom of this soon, every day is a struggle! Thank you again!

Quote=angels31;1192655]do you think that there could be an infection way up inside above the bone graft? When i went to the oral surgeon on christmas eve he did an x-ray on the teeth and said everything is fine. The site is fine where the stitches are, but i feel like there is an infection way up in my head. I am not sure if a ct scan would show that? What would i get a cut scan of? Sinus and neck? Or could it be that this is taking a really long time to heal, it has been two months since the last bone graft.

Originally Posted by Bryanna (Post 1193205)

Angels,
I am going to re post some of your thread and reply in bold type.

<<Yes, i am taking a probiotic called probulin. Supposedly, it is the best out there.>>

PROBULIN BRAND IS OKAY. IF YOU FEEL IT IS BENEFICIAL TO YOU, THEN KEEP TAKING IT.

<< I am amazed with all these antibiotics that my stomach isn't all messed up, so they must be helping. I am also drinking a yakult everyday.>>

I AM SURPRISED ALSO. HOWEVER, IN YOUR CASE DUE TO THE VARIOUS ANTIBIOTICS YOU HAVE BEEN ON AND THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE A VERY VIRULENT LONG STANDING INFECTION, IT IS IMPERATIVE TO STAY ON A PROBIOTIC INDEFINITELY. I WOULD RECOMMEND TO STOP DRINKING THE YAKULT BECAUSE IT IS NOT A HEALTHY FOOD. IT CONTAINS 2.5 TEASPOONS OF CANE SUGAR IN ONE DRINK WHICH KILLS OFF ANY HEALTHY BACTERIA THAT WAS IN THE DRINK TO BEGIN WITH AND THE OTHER INGREDIENTS ARE JUST FILLERS. MOST PROBIOTIC DRINKS ARE NOT HEALTH FOODS AS THEY ARE PROCLAIMED TO BE.

<< I read something written by an ent that you should also take a prebiotic. I will look into that>>

PROBULIN PRODUCTS, SOME, CONTAIN PREBIOTICS ALREADY SO THERE WOULD BE NO NEED TO TAKE ANOTHER ONE.

<< Yes, i am worried about being on levaquin so long, i am on day 16 now and have another 13. He didn't really want to leave me on it that long either but the problem is when i go off, the sinus infection comes back full fledge.>>

HAVE YOU BEEN ON LEVAQUIN FOR THIS INFECTION BEFORE?
IF GOING OFF THIS ANTIBIOTIC THE INFECTION IS STILL ACTIVE, THEN ONE OR TWO THINGS ARE HAPPENING. ONE IT IS NOT THE PROPER ANTIBIOTIC AND/OR TWO THERE IS AN ADDITIONAL SOURCE OF INFECTION THAT IS NOT BEING ADDRESSED.

<<Although, i don't feel it is helping much now. I very much feel like there is an infection in my body and it seems to be getting worse, not better. It feels the same as when the teeth were infected. The left side of my neck is swollen and my left ear is ringing. If i didn't know any better i would still think i had an infected tooth.>>

IS THE SWELLING IN THE NECK TENDER? DOES THE SWELLING CHANGE IN SIZE, MEANING GET LARGER, THEN SMALLER? IS THE SWELLING STILL AS LARGE AT IT ORIGINALLY WAS? THE RINGING IN THE EAR... IS THAT ONGOING SINCE BEFORE THE TOOTH WAS EXTRACTED?
SO MANY THINGS HAPPEN TO THE BODY WHEN THERE IS A LONG TERM INFECTION AS WELL AS DURING THE USAGE OF ANTIBIOTICS, SO IT IS IMPERATIVE TO BE ON THE RIGHT COURSE WHEN TREATING THIS. YOUR DOCTORS NEED TO BE COLLABORATING WITH EACH OTHER. ARE THEY?

<<I am wondering if the infection could be trapped in there by the bone graft?>>

THE GRAFT COULD BE HARBORING BACTERIA THAT WAS NOT PICKED UP BY THE NASAL SWAB.

<< I have a call into my ent right now, because on my mri there was a cyst in my left maxillary sinus caused by my tooth infection. I also read that cysts can form after extractions. Could it be that? He said he thought it was just inflammation from the tooth>>

YOUR ORAL SURGEON AND ENT NEED TO BE COLLABORATING ON THIS INFECTION TOGETHER. IF THE CYST WAS STILL PRESENT AFTER THE EXTRACTION THEN THAT COULD BE AT LEAST ONE AREA THAT IS HARBORING BACTERIA AND MAY NOT HAVE BEEN PICKED UP ON THE NASAL SWAB.

<<THE ENT put me on this levaquin also the tobramycin wash (for pseudomonas) . I am not putting the tonramycin in my mouth, i am adding it to saline solution that i blow in my nose. It is mixed in with the neil med.>>

WHAT IS "NEIL" MED? DOES THE ORAL SURGEON KNOW THAT YOU ARE ON LEVAQUIN AND TOBRAMYCIN? DOES HE KNOW THAT YOU STILL FEEL INFECTION IN YOUR HEAD? IS HE AWARE OF THE CYST FOUND ON THE MRI? EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE DOING A NASAL WASH, THE ANTIBIOTICS ARE STILL GOING DOWN YOUR THROAT. THIS MEANS THAT IN THE LARGE SCHEME OF THINGS, YOUR ORAL TISSUE IS BEING EXPOSED TO THE ANTIBIOTICS.

<< The ent had a plan that if i wasn't better in a month that he would do another ct. The last one i had was over the summer and i didn't have my teeth out yet. He said since i had dental work i would need another one. I am going to move that up to now. I really need to know if there is some kind of infection in there. Would a ct scan show if there is some sort of infection with the bone graft?>>

DID YOU HAVE A CT SCAN OR AN MRI? WAS IT DENTAL OR SINUS?
IT MAY OR MAY NOT BEHOOVE YOU TO HAVE ANOTHER SCAN DONE NOW. THAT REALLY SHOULD BE DECIDED BY BOTH THE ORAL SURGEON AND THE ENT BASED ON THE HISTORY AND CURRENT SYMPTOMS. A 3D DENTAL SCAN CAN BE USED TO DIAGNOSE INFECTIONS RELATED TO ORAL BONE GRAFTS.

<< Also, i will not do the implant until everything is healthy. Is it ok to wait? Can i get it done later?>>

IF THIS WERE ME, I WOULD NEVER PLACE A DENTAL IMPLANT IN THAT AREA DUE TO THE LONGEVITY AND SEVERITY OF THE INFECTION. HOWEVER, YOU NEED TO DO WHAT YOU FEEL IS BEST SUITED FOR YOU.

<< At least it isn't visible, but it is a hassle having to eat only on one side. I just really hope i can get to the bottom of this soon, every day is a struggle!>>

ONCE THIS SITE HEALS WELL ENOUGH TO CHEW ON, YOU MAY NOT REALLY MISS TOOTH #14. OR YOU MAY BE A CANDIDATE FOR A REMOVABLE NESBIT APPLIANCE OR AN ONLAY BRIDGE THAT WOULD ATTACH A FAKE TOOTH TO #S 13 AND 15. YOU SHOULD TALK ABOUT THESE OPTIONS WITH YOUR GENERAL DENTIST.

Originally Posted by Angels31 (Post 1193746)

Hi Bryanna,
I am going to try to answer all of your questions too.

First, the Yakult that I am drinking does not have sugar.,is that ok?

When I first got this sinus infection last April I took Levaquin, but I haven't been on it since. Just everything else! According to the bacterial culture , Levaquin and Cipro were the antibiotics for this bacteria.mi took Cipro over the summer for a month. ��

The swelling in the neck is not very tender, but it does go up and down. It was really big in 2010 then after I had the root canal it shrunk and has gone up and down ever since. It was mainly down until this happened. My ear has always rung but it has gotten worse since all this has happened.
No the doctors are not talking with each other.
Neil med is a sinus wash that all the ENT's seem to recommend. I have been to 4 ENT's during this time and they all recommended it. I just add the Tobramycin in.
My ENT ordered the ct scan of my sinuses and maxofacial. I will make it for as soon as possible.
What do I do if I can't do an implant there? I don't have any upper molars on that side now.
I am thinking this is all being caused by one or more of these problems,
There is some sort of infection that the bone graft trapped in. The reason I think this is because of the lump on my neck. It is definitely related to my teeth. Or it could be the cyst in my sinus or the pseudomonas that was in there. Will the CT scan be able to see if there is a problem with the bone graft? If so, can they take it out? And then replace it later.

There has to be a reason why this isn't going away. I feel like something is definitely infected in there. Every morning I wake up feeling so sick that I cry, which is so unlike me. It does seem to feel a little better as the day goes on, but it is such a struggle to feel bad all the time. I am normally such a healthy and active person. I am a runner and haven't run since this whole thing started which will be a year in March. .I am so miserable and my life has been ruined over this.

Thank you once again for all your help!

Originally Posted by Bryanna (Post 1193840)

Angels,

As far as I can find on the internet, all Yakult products contain various forms of sugar and are a highly processed product. In addition to that, the amount of live bacterial cultures remaining in the drink by the time it gets to the food stores is most likely nil due to the sugar content and to the changes in temperature from processing time to transportation to the shelf in the store. I am just informing you that pre made probiotic drinks are not a healthy or nutritious drink. The marketing on them leads one to believe they are, but they are really nothing more than a processed product. Of course it is up to you if you want to continue to consume it.

I agree that you are dealing with a complex problem. However, until your ENT and the oral surgeon collaborate on your care, your problem will remain complex because there needs to be a mutual agreement of what is going on in order to treat you accordingly.

Also, it's important to understand that the cause of the problems did not start a year ago. That may be when you first had certain symptoms but in actuality the root cause of the problem started 6+ years ago when the tooth was root canaled as that procedure does not cure the infection inside of the tooth allowing the infection to proliferate beyond the tooth. Due to the longevity of the infection, the problem has become complex.

Regarding the dental implant, again due to the longevity and complexity of the infection, that area of your mouth and sinus may remain compromised and not an ideal area for an implant. This is a topic that should be discussed with an oral surgeon in length so you know what the risks are before you embark on doing it to help avoid more complications.

Bryanna