Neuroprotective and disease-modifying effects of the ketogenic diet
 

This is worth reading: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2367001/

As I've said before, I've had immense benefit from a keto diet based on the paleo principles, whatever the mechanisms of action actually are.


What I absolutely love about this is that after noting the benefits of a keto diet, the authors turn around and say something so stupid:

"As the underlying mechanisms become better understood, it will be possible to develop alternative strategies that produce similar or even improved therapeutic effects without the need for exposure to an unpalatable and unhealthy, high-fat diet."

Prejudice and anti-fat propaganda run deep! I do enjoy getting a laugh, sometimes a nervous one, from physicians when they ask me what I've done to improve my health and serum cholesterol levels and I respond "by introducing about 5-10 times the recommended daily fat intake, with lots of saturated and animal fats."

I tried and failed
 

It was called the "Atkins" diet at the time and at first I loved it. I could eat a plate full of eggs and bacon with a side of more bacon,haha. After 4 days the glucose in my blood ran out and I began to feel like I had never felt in my life. The weight was burning off me and I had energy instead of lethargy. After a time I began to crave an Apple. I don't mean it was in the back of my mind, it was "throw a brick through the window and go get an Apple" craving. After the Apple I was not able or not willing to return. I do know that if my immediate health depends on glucose control, that diet is just 4 days away from wringing out the glucose. Thanks, Ken in Texas.

Good link!
 

David, just wondering if you follow the traditional Keto from the 1920's, the one from 1950's or the combo version from 1989 or your own? I didn't even know there were different versions.

The line that got me was at the very end: "the idea of developing the ketogenic diet in a ‘pill’ is very attractive and may be approachable." I understand that in context it was pertaining to alleged possible side effects but seriously, another cha-ching for big Pharma with definite side effects at no extra charge. :mad:

I believe, experienced and know how nutrition might help, and I prefer keeping a healthy nutrition over using drugs. But I am vegan and I certainly would prefer alternative strategies than eating meat and other animal derivatives.

There are many kinds of keto diets, or many version of it. The basic principle is obviously to eat enough fat and to reduce carbs such that you're in ketosis. As you can imagine that can happen in all sorts of ways. You can do an Atkins style diet, which Ken mentioned, and which doesn't distinguish between fats and what is actually healthy and nutritious as a whole. For example, bacon has nitrates and is very poor in the best fatty acids and the relevant ratios; in fact, pork is just not a good meet and chicken is not the best either. I eat them once a month, pork even less often. You can buy supermarket meat that is grain fed and full of antibiotics, or you can just consume lots of seed and veggy oils, none of which is good for you. If you look at the fatty acid makeup of animals that are not fed their correct diets according to evolutionary principles, they don't even compare to animals that are, forget about the other chemicals, contaminants and antibiotics in the feed.

So the reason I say paleo ketogenic is because I use the healthy and natural principles of paleo in the foods that I choose, so the protein, the fats, and so on and so forth. You can eat all the processed food you like and still call it keto, but believe me it will ruin your health in a short amount of time. So I started paleo, then cut out the fruits and high carb veggies and found myself in ketosis. I have various principles, reason why I don't eat this and that, so it is definitely my own diet, formulated over several months, so to speak. As a rule of thumb, if you start with nutrient dense, natural foods on a paleo diet, and then cut out the carbs, you'll have a healthy keto diet.

What's interesting about ketosis is that our bodies are built such that you can slip in and out very easily, with no strain and without even feeling it. When I first showed ketones on my urine test, my GP though it was because I was fasting for the glucose and cholesterol test, but I then explained my diet. So it's that easy and you can slip into ketosis even in a day, if you fast long enough. Everyone is different but I've never heard of it taking more than a few days. We're built such that we can go from one food source, carbs, to the other, fat, and vise versa.

Pinky, that's a classic line. Take what is natural and healthy and turn it into a pharma product so that big pharma can benefit from it. That sounds much more appetizing than coconut oil...

Stillhoping, I understand. I used to be a vegetarian for many years earlier in my life, and it was for ethical reasons. Actually, for a short time, about a year, I even went vegan. As things stand, I hate to say it but I think that the increased amount of grains and general carbs (say from starchy pulses) that I ate then was one thing that led to my gut dysbiosis). Human beings are omnivores, who until very recently didn't consume nearly as much agriculturally produced foods as we now do. Ethically I think all the evidence is on the vegan side, or more so for sure, but health wise I would say the overwhelming evidence is with the paleo and in cases of illness with a paleo keto diet. But I won't lie: I can't justify my diet ethically, not at all, and that troubles me.

I posted this on another thread, but I thought I might as well post it here too, if anyone is interested:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1282589/

I'm not quite sure how to get access to this piece (in full): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16523530. Would someone please help? I'm particularly interested in "(v) adverse effects" of the ketogenic diet. Thank you in advance.

I don’t know which nutrition is healthier in the long run, the one that you chose or mine. Maybe it is the reduction of processed food, refined carbs, sugar etc. in both of the methods.
I know many people that their health was improved when they based their nutrition on veggies, legumes, fruits, nuts etc. and these are also the recommendations of the AICR (American Institute for Cancer Research).

I can access it and will send you the paper

Be not troubled
 

I was raised on a farm, I raised cattle and chickens and hogs as an adult. I learned shoot, skin, slice, you get the picture. In my belief system, God gave man dominion over the animals. I can certainly respect anyone that wants to be different than me. If you believe there were cave men,(clovis people) you know that killing for meat was happening at least since the taming of fire. Just as veggie diets may leave one short on B-12, I am sure that no carb or veggie will result in a similar shortfall. We all were at one time opportunistic eaters like the bears. Omnivores. I will say that if you are killing hogs and it's cold and you have been at it for hours, cutting the tips from the tenderloin and shoving a stick through them and sticking the tips into the fire and eating straight off the stick is a primal thing and it's GOOD. Thanks Ken in Texas.

LOL.... so basically the diet is great but we need to develop an alternative? WHY??????? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

My cardiologist and general practitioner had nothing but high praise for ketogenic or Atkins dieting. My cardiologist told me i look great and he is thinking about going back on Atkins.

For me, whether it is Ketogenic or Atkins there are two evils I avoid and i think is the key thing here. Processed foods and sugar. I think just removing those and using proper supplementation will change your life and your body completely.

I think that's right, reducing refined carbs and processed foods, etc. is a huge start, and bound to result in great improvement. So that's part of it. But animal sources of food have certain beneficial micronutrients that are lacking in plant food, and that's what would worry me most, aside from the fact that grains and legumes (and even seeds and nuts in high quantities) have high levels of antinutrients (e.g., phytic acid) and are not the best sources for the nutrients that they do offer (veggies being much better). But if people are seeing improvement and better health from such diets, then by all means. The human body and nutrition itself are quite complex, and there's much we don't know.

And thanks so much for sending the paper. :)

Ken, thanks for this. When growing up, in my teens, I had a chance for a while to work with animals, lambs and chicken, and there was something primal about slaughtering the animal with your own hands and at times even barbecuing it up right there, knowing what it had eaten and how it had lived. Our animals would roam and graze freely, and ate what they were meant to eat, so no GMO corn or soy, no antibiotics in their feed, and all that junk. It was a small family run operation. We also used to eat mountain greens in the same area, saute them, even though they probably looked like weeds to most people.

I would never recommend a diet with no veggies and carbs, that would be impossible but also terrible health wise. My diet is very high in a diversity of veggies, just low in carbs. In fact, eat meal consists of larger portions of veggies than anything else. Just as we've always hunted, we've always foraged. We are definitely opportunistic and omnivorous creatures. :)

Patrick,

Cutting out processed foods and sugar is great, essential in fact. I agree. But I think more can be done. You needn't do anything, but I for one prefer to cut out all sources of toxins from my diet, or as many as I can. For example, I prefer to eat animals that haven't been fed GMO corn and soy when they're meant to eat grass, which is why the fatty acid makeup of these two sets of animals are radically different. I prefer to eat quality fats rather than seed or grain oils that are GMO and poor in quality fatty acids. Such things are important to health.

Again, you needn't do anything, but nutrition is quite complex, as I'm learning more and more each day. And physicians are not nutritionists and more often than not know very little about nutrition. The Atkins diet does not aim for health but for weight loss, and the company itself sells processed foods of its own. Their principle is just to keep down the carbs and eat more fat to get in ketosis. Healthy eating is more complex than that. But if it works for you, then that's what matters most.

There are people on the Mediterranean diet who live to ripe old ages and are quite healthy. Genetics, the state of one's body and so much else matters. The Inuit eat diets that are almost entirely fat and very low in veggies and seem to do just fine, in some respects healthier than us, even though I think most of us would not do too well on those diets. So it gets very complex very fast. My principle is just to limit the toxins and maximize natural and nutrient dense sources of nutrition, that's basically it. So far so good. Perhaps in the future I'll have to change things around again. I don't know.