I worked on new illustrations for my site --
 

ALL day yesterday.

It took me forever to do the first one, and then I didn't like it and redid it.

But after that I could build on it.

Want to see?

http://www.health-boundaries-bite.co...2-History.html

:)

I think it helps make B12 easier to understand, to see how hard it is to get it out of food and use it.

Today I'm going to do an h.pylori one. :)

Wow, impressed the heck out of me. I only wish my friend, who is a Type 2 diabetic, and has a diabetic stomach, I wish she would take a look at your website. It is so informative. But I can't reach her and I've stopped trying.

I take my methyl B-12 every day and the improvements in my burning feet are astronomical. I went from "going out of my mind with the burning", to occasional bouts of burning and the ants crawling up and down my body".

I'll take that over 24 hour burning feet any day of the week. My husband also is now taking Methyl B-12. But he has had PN for over 18 years.

He thought it would be instant improvement. I had to explain that it takes a long long time to repair nerves.

So we shall continue our B-12 regimin (along with the B-complex and other good vitamins and minerals).

Thanks for such a nice informative website.

Good job

Wow amazing. I'm going to go back and look more. All the time and research. Its a lovely site.

Hi Melody -

Gosh, I love hearing that: about your improvement. I sooooo identify!!! When I tell people about B12, I don't think they have any idea that it's real, that it's so amazing.

(((((((Melody)))))))

tears in my eyes. (I often wonder how many people who go to my site really "get" it. So your post makes me SOOOO happy.)

You know what, I think it would be possible for your husband to have quicker improvement if he took more each day.

I was on the regimen of a few shots a month (that was for many years)... then when I got tetanus I took a shot a day (luckily my doctor had given me a prescription for a shot a day for a year... But I was never sure if she meant it or made a mistake on the math. In any case, boy was I glad.)

(((((((Melody))))))))

Oh, thank you soooo much.

I've worked really hard on it for a long time.

In the beginning SiteBuilder from Yahoo didn't work very well and I had to redo several pages dozens of times...

((((((((daniella))))))))))

thank you for the kind words, they are very happy making. :)

Hi.

We both take 5000 of the methyl each morning. If you think my husband (he has the worse of the PN), if you think he should take two of them, I'll pass this along to him.

Good job, believe me, good job!!!

Most informative.

We have to get more people to listen to what is going into their bodies. Not only about what, and what not, to eat... but also about the supplements.

Vitally important information.

Thanks much. To Rose, for getting me started on the Methyl B-12 and to your website also.

Melody

Wherever the essential text was obtained, it is good.

However, the addition within the added graphics contains one serious problem: It is not necessary for intrinsic factor to be present for B12 to be used by the body. If it is not present, the patient malabsorbs B12 severely, but if B12 is absorbed through appropriate large oral doses or shots, that person can use the B12.

rose

I disagree, Rose.

The reason I disagree is that years ago people died of pernicious anemia.

But each to their own.

I'm glad you like my page.

Almost everything on my site that isn't from experience is copied from research papers or something.

I wouldn't just know this stuff by osmosis. :)

Pernicious anemia is the lack of intrinsic factor. It is treated by giving enough B12 orally, or by giving it in shots, to get through in spite of the lack of intrinsic factor.

Intrinsic factor still was/is not present in a person has pernicious anemia. Intrinsic factor is only for absorption of B12; it has nothing to do with the body's ability to use B12 once it is has been absorbed.

It is not appropriate or legal to copy content from others without their permission, unless small amounts are quoted along with citation of the source.

rose

Thanks Rose,

My mom had pernicious anemia. That's probably why I have so much trouble with getting enough B12.

Eating foods with B12 in them, doesn't mean our bodies are going to be able to use the B12, sadly.

((((((((Rose)))))))))
.

That is because the B12 in the food can't be absorbed by someone who malabsorbs. If they malabsorb only because of too little stomach acid, B12 in fortified foods can get through. But if they lack intrinsic factor, they need a much larger dose for any to get through.

Have you considered citing the source of the text on your site?

rose

For sure.

http://www.health-boundaries-bite.co...-Excerpts.html

I don't think I need to quote Wiki and the others for the history... think?
.

I would, if for no other reason than so people would know that it came from someone else's work or site.

I think it is important, even when one has permission to quote a large quantity of information, not to give the impression that the webpage owner has written something when that is not the case.

rose

Some of Wikipedia's rules on use of their information:

I guess you missed my post.
http://www.health-boundaries-bite.co...-Excerpts.html

In terms of my history and symptoms page: Na, the history stuff is basically history.

I think it's okay.

No, I don't think I missed a post.

I'm a little confused though. It is apparent that you did not write much that is on your site that I do not see citations for.

Maybe "Dr. Poo" gave you permission, or maybe you both obtained your information with permission from some other site. But if that is the case I would have thought there would be a citation.

There is paragraph after paragraph of word-for-word text on your site that is the same as other web pages, and this is an example:

C:\Documents and Settings\HP_Administrator\My Documents\Plagiarism\ASK DR_ POO's Message Board.mht

rose

Rose, you know at Cleveland clinic the doc told me to stop my fish oil supplments because I'm not over 40 with heart problems and my b12 cause it is so high my levels. Like I said though my b12 went down from 2000 to 1500 after I started taking b12.So I think my blood work is super weird. I'm still taking it cause my other neuro said no harm. I just thought it was interesting and I thought of you.

Daniella,

So sad. Prevention of problems is discouraged. Of course, if you develop those problems then there are plenty of pharmaceuticals to take. :rolleyes:

Regarding your B12 tests, I think I remember something about them. Wasn't the 2000 result after your getting B12 somehow but not stopping for a few days before the test? And wasn't the 1500 after having stopped a few days?

Forgive me if I am wrong. :)

rose

Dear Dan,

Thanks. :) It's bare bones, but non-commercial and growing slowly.

Yesterday, I was thrilled to learn it has been linked from Holland!

rose

Me too
 

Rose,
I've linked you to the Sjogren's forum which has a membership of 800+and growing daily. And the Sjogren's forum is linked to the dryeyezone which is a dry eye forum and I can't even begin to guess how many members it has.

I like your forum too and I'm updating my links as you update the forum.

Billye

Dear Billye,

Thank you. :) It's so thrilling when it helps someone.

rose

Yes, that's how i feel about my site.

:)

I'm glad you have a site now, too. :)

Non-commercial and original. I find it more satisfying that way. I know what it feels like to have my work taken and put on someone else's commercial site without attribution. It happened to me.

rose

Aw Rose....

http://health-boundaries-bite.com/im...n_tBeHatin.gif

I love my site, and

http://health-boundaries-bite.com/im...ilieIDidIt.png


Now look how many sites there are that talk about fingernails and B12.

Some mention my site, but not all.

You know what I think about our sites?

http://health-boundaries-bite.com/images/asmilieYay.gif

It hurts my feelings when people make un-archialogical... http://health-boundaries-bite.com/im...smiliedig2.gif

[QUOTE=rose;124420]Daniella,

So sad. Prevention of problems is discouraged. Of course, if you develop those problems then there are plenty of pharmaceuticals to take. :rolleyes:

Regarding your B12 tests, I think I remember something about them. Wasn't the 2000 result after your getting B12 somehow but not stopping for a few days before the test? And wasn't the 1500 after having stopped a few days?

Forgive me if I am wrong. :)

rose[/QUO

Well when my b12 was 2000 I was taking b complex only my neuro at that time told me to stop. I then went to see a new neuro who I asked and she said I could take it along with the b12 so I have for a few months. Since then I have had my blood work tested 3 times and my b12 is 1500. Weird as taking more in. The doc now at the cleveland clinic told me to stop but right now I'm still taking it. Something I know is never right in my blood work. Thanks and I like your site too Rose. Have you ever thought of being a nutritionist or into herbal meds and recovery?

Really you all are amazing with your sites and info. Really how it helps is an understatement. I often feel docs talk in a different language and many of you offer so much knowledge with compassion. THANK YOU!!!!

thank you, Daniella --

I put a lot of time into my site over the years, and I feel all warm and happy when it helps someone.

As an aside, the doctor who gave me the prescription for a B12 shot a day for a year is a ... holistic doctor. She tries to keep her patients at or above 1200 for B12...

I'm sure mine is way above that. :rolleyes:

I have a really good article on my site about B12 test levels. It's my most favorite article:
http://www.health-boundaries-bite.co...B12-Level.html

Karen--that is a great website, I have saved it for reading later today. So much of it is making sense to me. I know I have an absorption problem, I have for years. I take a sublingual liquid B-Complex daily, which gives me 2400mcg of B12 and still, I have the ridged fingernails, the missing half moons, the brown spots on my hands, maybe even my arms, memory loss, confusion--so much makes sense.

Can I ask a silly question? Do some of us freckle with age? I used to tease my sister and my daughter so much about their freckles. I used to tease them that I could use a marker and play dot to dot games with their freckles and not, I see I am just as freckled as they are--all over, just like them, I never was before. Not so much my legs, but my face, neck, and arms are covered with freckles now--maybe it's paybacks for teasing!:wink:

Daniella,

You would have absorbed plenty from your regular B complex if you malabsorb only from food. It is entirely reasonable under those circumstances that you would have tested 2000 without stopping for days prior to test samples being drawn.

If you then stopped (as I believe you said you did) for days prior to the other tests, the 1500 results are providing a clue as to how your B12 stores were at the time. The 2000 also measured what was running around in your blood and would never be absorbed or used.

rose

Karen,

What do you think of Daniella's situation?

rose

Karen,

Please clarify your reason for disagreement. Of course people died of pernicious anemia when untreated. They still do if they don't get enough B12 through treatment.

If intrinsic factor were necessary for people to use B12, all the methylcobalamin in the world wouldn't help them. So, I'm not sure what you mean.

rose

Rose I'm sorry I'm confused. I have been on both regularly the b12 and b complex and had 3 blood works after the original one of 2000 when I was taking only the b complex. Now my b12 is 1500. I had only stopped the complex for a week and that was a few months ago. The 3 recent blood works were in the past month or so. I think I did read though that you can have normal or high levels but still not absorb?
Darlindeb25 are you out in the sun a lot? I do know some people with age get birth marks or moles I think with age so maybe the same with freckles. Have you been to dermatologist?

Hi Rose,

First, I don't think that you and I are going to say things exactly the same unless we cut and paste from each other.

Which reminds me, are you saying in an earlier post that you actually wrote those little history blurbs I have on my site, that I copied from some other site?

Let me know, I'd be glad to give you credit.

In terms of saying things the same, I used to go with a man who had owned a chemical company in Dallas, who wanted to be a professional handicapper. So we went to the races every day that they were on, and I regularly handicapped 12 races, many with 12 horses. :eek: Big time work.

But the thing was that he hated it if I'd picked a different horse to win than he had.

So, I started handicapping for a longshot to show. :) And I did pretty good. :)

You remind me of him because you get so upset if I don't say things exactly like you.

I'm sorry I upset you.

Okay... here's one place where our web sites are different:

Yours says

http://www.health-boundaries-bite.co..._site_myth.jpg
.

To me that is misleading. My mother had perncious anemia; until I had B12 replacement for quite a significant amount of b12, I had blue under my little fingernail that was nearly purple...

To me the other people you mention who were dying could have lacked hydrochloric acid and were therefore malabsorbing... and in the end dying.

I don't really know of any cases where someone had pernicious anemia and their blood work was normal in terms of the size of the corpuscles.

The larger corpuscles make for a lot of problems for people who suffer macrocytic anemia with their low B12.

That's why on my site I have the following on my B12 Malabsorption page

http://www.health-boundaries-bite.co...om_my_site.jpg
.

The thing about B12 that is tricky is that there are so many ways that people can become short of it, and there are so many ways the disorder can manifest in different people.

My intention with my web site is to help people see how it works so that they can pay more attention to it.

That's why I've worked so hard on having my site be visual...

:)

Hi Deb :)

Boy, I got goosebumps reading your post about freckles. You should see my bumpy arms. (Best not, though.)

When I was really B12 deficient I had so many brown spots that I thought exactly the same thing: connect the dots...

Then at that time there was a brief news segment on how people with more of them tended to be more likely to get cancer.

So I went to my doctor who pooh-poohed them saying they were nothing but sebacious keritosis...(a spelling something like that.)

But then after the neurologist told me to have more B12, I noticed that a particular set of the brown spots that had been nearly a perfect circle was missing two of its spots...

I had a lot of them go away, but then when I was so sick and taking so much B12 some of the time... I would feel guilty about the huge amount and not take it for awhile... then I'd get all the symptoms too badly to keep not taking so much, and the brown spots would come back.

Now they don't go away as much as they used to, they just fade a little.

((((((((Deb)))))))))

I don't know what to tell you, except that I think there's some sort of connection between brown spots and low B12...

Oh, I think I read a blurb in a book that was at my doctor's. I read it while waiting to see her. She's the one who gave me the prescription for a shot a day for a year.

The blurb said that the spots ARE related to low B12 in some way, but I forget precisely what the book said.

Daniella,

Possibilities:

People actually rebuild stores and benefit more in the long run from daily B12 than from the occasional shot. So, it is possible that you actually were storing more B12 as a result of the regular B12 dose. (Remember everyone, that people with SEVERE malabsorption cannot benefit from a regular B complex, so please don't depend on it.)

So, if you malabsorb only from food (and it appears very clear that that was the case, unless your B complex contained 1000 mcg B12), you were getting plenty of B12 to rebuild stores. And it would not be unusual that your test results were better on that than the usual shot regimen.

The first test could have been inaccurate, you may not have stopped the B12 and B complex long enough before the test to get the more accurate lower reading, the unit of measure could be different.

The important thing is that you are absorbing. The false normal is not anywhere near your result. It is clear that you have been taking has been getting through.

rose

Karen,

No, that text is not from my site, nor is it from any of my writing. That writing is beyond either one of us.

It is not important to me how you say anything. What is important to me is that the information people get is as accurate and complete as possible. It is also important to me to observe copyright law.

One can compare your writing and mine and see clearly that neither of us wrote it. Maybe you have permission to use it, and, if you do, maybe I missed your note stating that.

I will address your other point in my next post.

rose

From my site:

From the history you copied to your site:

Karen Wrote:


Karen,

The writing you have copied to your site states clearly that the belief was that anemia always occurred when B12 deficiency was present.

I did not say it was the only cause of B12 malabsorption or B12 deficiency. True pernicious anemia is lack of intrinsic factor (not an anemia as was thought in the 18th century).

Also copied to your site:

In the section of my site you quote, I am addressing "pernicious anemia" and making the same point as above.

The reason I have spent so much time and energy addressing the problem is that many medical reference materials (thus most doctors) still believe that anemia must be present if a patient is B12 deficient. This is terribly dangerous, because many of us do not have large cells when deficient.

The large cells are not the problem. The large cells are the way most people become diagnosed and get treatment.

Those who do not have large cells are at terrible risk of not being diagnosed and treated.

Iron deficiency is common in people who malabsorb B12, and iron deficiency can make cells smaller. When the two exist together, cells can be normal sized or even small.

Folic acid can normalize the size of cells, and thus the sign a doctor might recognize is not present, but the B12 deficiency still is, and the damage continues.

If you had any understanding of the B12 issue you would know this and more.


Karen:
Here is just one very good source, Karen:

Goldman: Cecil Textbook of Medicine, 22nd ed., page 1056

"Several clinical studies document that a normal hematocrit and/or mean cell volume occur in at least 25 to 50% of patients whose neuropsychiatric abnormalities are caused by cobalamin deficiency and respond partially or completely to cobalamin therapy."

rose

Since B12 deficiency, when allowed to go untreated for a significant time, affects every cell in the body to one degree or another, anything may be connected.

Many individual differences cause individuals to be affected differently.

rose

What's funny to me, Rose, is that you assume I copied it from the site you go to. I don't think I've ever been to that site.

Have you ever looked at how many sites use my material about fingernails?

It's rampant, and that's good.