cramps
 

Hi--

I just got back from a 2 week vacation that was all I could have wanted. The epidural I had before I left kicked in pretty quickly, and I was quite comfortable. But I have a new problem that I don't like.

Last night when I laid down to go to sleep one of my calves cramped up. All the usual maneuvers didn't work (getting up, walking, stretching). Finally, it eased and I got back into bed and the other leg cramped. Then both together. Somehow I got to sleep, but was awakened several times by return of the cramps. Some in my calf, but also in my thigh muscles. I had some strange sensations in my hands, like prickles of needles, just in one or two places, and not nearly as disturbing as the leg cramps, though worrisome, because I don't want to think the neuropathy is worsening.

I'm not dehydrated and have no reason to have a new electrolyte problem. I don't get it. I looked up nocturnal leg cramps and the only thing I came up with was magnesium. My magnesium level was good a few weeks ago.

Then today I went to buy a new bed with my son, and everytime I laid down, the cramps came. They clearly were related to position. Also, as soon as I laid down, I had neuropathy symptoms that I haven't had since the beginning---my feet itched, felt crawly, prickled.

So I think I'm having symptoms related to position, not just sleep. Anybody know anything about this?

Tonight I was sure to take my CaMg supplement to the fullest, it's all I cant think of. I'm not eager to lie down to sleep.

Hi Liza
 

Welcome Back!

I have leg cramps in my left leg, and it also has to do with position and flex. When I flex my toes, my toes and calf seem to spas up,and my foot has even rotated inwards 90 degrees. Like dystonia.

Since my PN has always been mostly sensory (small fibre) with some autonomic involvement, I assume that this has to do with motor nerves, though my nerve conduction studies were normal.

I take large amounts of magnesium and it seems to help, some days are worse than others and sometimes there is much abating,although I have tenderness in that calf 24/7.

On several occasions while flexing my legs at night while asleep I was woken by the most painful leg cramp,and my leg was twisted up and I couldn't control my foot. It passes thank God, but I still don't know why it happens either?:confused:

Wow, you take large amounts of magnesium... and it doesn't help?

Gosh... I wonder how that can be...

(there was a long gap in here while I was wondering and thinking about it)

Have you read much about magnesium? I was surprised to read that it's pretty hard to absorb, a lot like B12... so now when I take mine I take it with a hydrochloric acid tablet or vitamin C... I read that the acid in vitamin C helps for the magnesium to be used.

Apparently when someone is low on stomach acid, then they tend to get magnesium depletion... because apparently we need stomach acid (some kind of acid, like the vitamin C) in order to make use of magnesium that we take...

I get these but yours could it be from the procedure if not had them before? I take magnesium but also glucosamine msn,calcium with d. I also wonder if it may be from potassium? I don't take a supp but try to eat foods with it. Awhile back I had a deficiency and of iron too and it made me feel crampy. Hope you feel better and enjoyed your trip

Positon related--
 

--opens up two other possibilites:

--neruomuscular compression, especially from the lower part of the spine (and that would hardly be a surprise, right?), or

--ciruclatory issues in the lower extremities.

This is, of course, in addition to the electrolyte possibilites.

I too get cramps during some of my stretching exercise work-outs, generally in the lower legs and toes, and they are associated with certain positions I assume--usually when I am tightening muscles or stretching them considerably; it seems that the conscious process of "hardening" them produces spasm from time to time, though it goes away within a minute or so if I release the area. I have found these have lessened with good hydration and major magnesium citrate dosing, though they haven't gone completely.

The fact that you are getting sensory symptoms with these sort of points to some sort of compressive forces--could be the pressure of muscles/fascia on the lower spine or cauda equina area when you're lying on them--could you lie down on your side to sleep? (And how was your night?)

probably related to the position
 

Liza Jane,
Are you still using the Miralax? I know you have just gotten back from vacation and even tho you think you are hydrated, perhaps you are a little low in the hydration area. Miralax, very little water on the plane, perhaps not as much magnesium as you need, hot vacation climate and all the sun etc. Your epidural has most likely worn off by now. Try hydrating yourself really well, using more magnesium than you usually do and mix the Miralax with Gatorade or Pedyalyte. Also sleep on your side with a pillow between your knees.

I sure hope this helps.

Billye

Oh, Liza Jane. I sure can relate.

Coping with motor problems has caused me to adapt in not-so-good ways for years. And in recent weeks I have been coping with a similar problem, but it is the right side of my lower back (opposite of the worst side, so the right has been doing all the work). Can manage during the day, but night time has been a bear.

I've been getting help from a woman who is very good and is helping my body to at least try to do the right thing. :cool: And in working with her I have discovered some bad habits I can do something about.

Upping and upping the doses of calcium and magnesium, and getting lots of potassium in my food.

Now that it has eased quite a bit, the pillow between knees helps somewhat. Been trying that and every possible contortion to keep from having to spend all night sitting up.

The magnesium I had been taking was in tablet form (citrate), but the powdered form of calcium and magnesium I'm using now seems to get through better (a little diahrrea, whereas I have never had any with even larger doses of it in tablet form). Not sure it is making the difference, but I'm sure not willing to take a chance!

Also started taking bromelain and have become more diligent about the glucosomine/MSM. Anything that is safe!

Wishing us all a good night's sleep!

rose

Liza Jane, gotta ask....
 

HOW long was the plane flight back? Were you able to get up and MOOOVE around much or not? You had gone on vacation, did Lots of things probably, and then had to SIT Stand, SIT for extended periods of time?
I know I feel like a geriatric [not there YET I surely hope!] when I've got to SIT for any period of time over 30 minutes! I get up and walk around the house, go to a store [just to walk] and up and down the driveway just to keep things 'rolling'...
Just hope it's nothing airline related = EVIL! - j

I was getting terrible calf cramps until David advised me of taken magnesium and calcium supplements, i have not had a calf cramp since that day.

Thanks everyone
 

Last night I made sure to take the Ca/Mg pills, 4 of the, but I can't remember the number of milligrams. Then I got worried because it was my first day injecting myself with Forteo, and I wasn't sure if there would be an interaction between the forteo and the calcium.

But all seemed to go well.

So, now I'm on the Forteo for 6 months, which will hopefull make my back fuse. I'll use the bone growth stimulator with it, though no one is actually suggesting that. Why not? Also, I'm still doing Feldenkrais for the pain, and it still works. and yesterday started PT for the pelvic floor, which my new colo-rectal guy ordered. I don't expect it to do anything. But I do think the Forteo/calcium/mag/bone stimulator with feldenkrais and weights will help.

I'm feeling pretty good, actually, despite it all.

I took some Feldenkrais classes once, and they were cool. I think you have to have some natural talent for it to teach it, but with a good instructor it is great. Hard to find classes around here, though.

The Answer, duh
 

Last Monday I began Forteo for my bones. It can cause an elevated Calcium. The first time I took it, I had also taken my calcium near the same time.

Tonight I've just gotten instructions in the mail from my doctor on using Forteo. The most common side effec---cramps.

From the high calcium.

duh. why didn't I think of this sooner?

LJ
 

Well it never fails,here have a pill to help,but your gotten get cramps.
I'm sorry they hurt and it's hard to move so just scream it's allowed.
:) Sue

I should read the whole thread again... I know. Because I can't remember... major stress today... then my memory is like a house of cards...

but someone must have mentioned magnesium... right?

when ever you are having more calcium, it's good to up your magnesium, too.

In fact, since I just had a second b12 shot because my right leg kept bucking, I think I'm going to have a magnesium... an extra one.

Sometimes when I have a B12 shot late at night it causes cramps... but not if I have the magnesium

((((((((LizaJane)))))))

The epidural? Did they hit a nerve bundle that could be causing some if not all of these symptoms? I'd check with the doctor. Epidurals can be funny things.

ETA: I guess I should have read the entire thread too. LOL!

lol

My gosh, I cannot hit the keys right... I've had to retype this more than five times.

Jarrett... yes...

but hard to make oneself do it...

:)

Well, Forteo increases Calcium transiently, very transiently, but I made the mistake of taking my first dose of it after taking my supplements. I now take my Ca in the morning and my forteo in the evening and it hasn't recurred.

Small blessings.

Planning your meds out
 

during the day in a way as if you are a MOGUL planning your financial take-overs? That's how I 'pretend' my meds so no one med conflicts w/another...

Cramps can be soo bad that one actually considers amputation? Then, what keeps me sane is that Amputees have 'nerve' memories of limbs not there.. So, sort of solve one problem, you get another...Not acceptable. See my new thread about this... - j

Glad to hear this! Yep, small blessings. They add up. ;)

I get episodes of cramps too and have not found any rhyme or reason. Bad times just seem to come and go. I have started taking my vitamins before bed and that seems in general to help me have a better night. Wish I could help. My only thought is to get checked for peripheral artery disease, intermittent claudication or some other circulatory problem just in case, but likely it is one of the 'other' manifestations of small fiber neuropathy, besides burning. The cramping, aching, gnawing stuff that it seems a lot of people either don't have or don't talk about.

cycleops
 

If you'r cramps are not related to exercise or position, they're not likely claudication. And the cramps that come with position changes often mean that that position is compromising blood flow to that area, so change position.

But if they're from out of the blue, you might want to try magnesium. It's helpful to many.

Just a note..
 

Re: your epidural injections. I have had 3 recently in spine for thigh pain, and also noticed sudden problems with charlie horses...in calf. Also just happened to be tested for Cortisol levels with stim test and mine were so low the doc called in cortisone pills and wants me in for further evaluation. since she called I have looked online and found out that steroid injections can severly suppress adrenal function. NO DOC told me this at Spine Center. My endo is not sure this is the only reason, though, so I will have to see whats next...low cortisol levels can be dangerous, even life threatening, I am wondering if mine were low before that. And now wondering about the leg cramps. I am taking Magnesium too...just wanted you to be aware of that...

Liza Jane.

Been a while since we corresponded. How are you???

I never take calcium supplements or magnesium. I don't know why I never take magnesium, but I do know why I do not take calcium. Makes me constipated.

Is there a specific cal/mag pill that you can recommend? I had a spasm the other night in my big toe. Don't want that repeated.

Thanks, Melody

Calcium supplements do me the same way. Rolaids doesn't seem to have that effect though. So that's what I take for my calcium supplement. Oddly enough, not having a gallbladder one would think constipation would be the least of my worries. Not so for me. Most people I know that have had their gallbladder out are *never* bothered by constipation. The opposite is more the norm.

Melody,

Sounds like you may need magnesium. And if you up your dose of magnesium citrate until you get diarrhea, and then back off, you will probably find the right dose.

I've found that a powdered form of magnesium will loosen my bowels if I take enough, even though a tablet didn't (same form of magnesium, good brand, and even higher dose). I don't need that, but in a desperate attempt to treat a spasm with higher doses and more absorbable form I learned about the effect on me.

Now calcium magnesium (citrate) powder did the trick on me.

rose

Thanks
 

Rose Bob have been havings that problem as well . L.J Bob's dr. said after
only one phone call that with some people cramps are side effects
of Ed injections. Bob sure got them after the first 2.
Then went on and on but i couldn't find my tape recorder,sorry.
I have them often they are awfull,i was in the grocery store once and
some wonderfull lady helped she could see my pain,it was a blessing,
because i could't talk or scream. And that day i think it would of been a
scream..A well deserved one but there's people in that store with
heart conditions. Get better sweet lady.. Sue

Hi Rose, Jarrett and Sue:

Well, I got my gallbladder out about 6 years ago. Had to have two operations in two days because I bled internally. Boy, did I get skinny after that because I didn't eat for a long time. Had no appetite. I remember telling Alan "you have to go and buy me orange cupcakes". He just looked at me like I was out of my mind. I had no appetite for anything else. Just orange tasting stuff. And this all happened after they took out my gallbladder.

I coudn't get enough of orange chocolate, and orange cupcakes. No other food though. So I lost weight, but as soon as I went off the orange cupcakes, and began to eat like a normal person (without exercising though), I put on 20 lbs just like that. I never understood. I never ate beef, I ate salads, actually I ate like I do right now, but for some reason, I gained 20 lbs. It has taken me years to get the rest of the weight off but off it has come. Don't forget I've been on diabetic meds for many many years and they cause a person to retain weight also. And I've been on insulin for two years and even though it's almost impossible to lose weight if you take insulin, I've managed to do it. I have had to step up my walking though.

I rarely get constipated. I go every morning. But now that I believe I should add calcium, I'll add the magnesium. Thankfully, haven't had a cramp in two days since that episode.

Spasms, cramps, whatever you call them,, they are most certainly NOT FUN!!!

Mel

Constipation is my middle name as many know. I did read that the magnesium offsets the calcium. I take though calcium with vitamin d which I don't think the calcium/mag/zinc so I take the magnesium on the side and zinc is in my multi. I'm not sure if everyone needs the d but my doc really wanted me to have it cause of the osteoporosis.

daniella, forgive me if I'm wrong, but are you still taking the painkillers? For me that was a cause of constipation. As soon as I quit Lortab or whatever other painkiller I was given my bowels were much happier.

lailavia
 

can you send me references on suppression of adrenal function by epidurals. That would be an incredibly bad thing to happen to me at this point in time.

Thank you.

Liza Jane
 

http://aace.metapress.com/app/home/c...lts,1:300404,1

Noticed this after googling for it... Maybe one of you can locate the whole article...

Cathie

Cathie--I can't get into that article. Do you have the name of it? Also, I think it matters which steroid is injected whether it suppresses th adrenal. some do it more than others.

Daniella and others. Magnesium is one of those minerals where it matters very much what form it is whether it gets absorbed or not. Mg hydroxide is what's in milk of magnesia, and in general, promotes bowel movement but doesn't change blood levels. calcium also gets absorbed poorly in some forms and better in other. It seems that CaMg pills usually have the best absorbed of both types. They need to be balanced in the body.

Oh yes I remember you telling me about that magnesium. Is camg pills with vitamin d or would that be in addition to calcium with d?Also it may have been mentioned but plenty of fluid and healthy oils I heard helps to.

I have been taking magnesium malate for some time but it has no effect on my very bad cramping. Would I be better taking magnesium citrate as you mentioned Rose? I have bad constipation and would be delighted if I received help for both problems.

Tony

Tony,

Yes! :)

rose

LizaJane:

Now, I can't get to the article either. I don't know why, but will try to find another. It had something to do with a report of one patient whose adrenals were suppressed with only one of the injections, and it was not even the complete article.

If I can find it in its entirety, I will post the link.

Cathie

Thank you Rose, I will acquire some citrate forthwith.:)

Tony

Tony,

If my experience :eek: is any indication, get powdered.

rose

I had noticed that both types were in iHerb's list so many thanks Rose for the reccomendation. I assume the powdered version is more easily digested and I am longing to see if it helps with my long standing (or sitting :wink:) problem as well as the cramps.

Tony

Steroid Shots and Cortisol Levels
 

Sorry for getting back so late....but here goes....I went to the endocrinologist after having my stim test...she said i had hardly any cortisol in my body. and put in me on coritisone pills immediately. She said she is seeing it more and more and cortisone is over prescribed and it does get in your blood stream from these epidural shots. She said to never get it again, unless they inject something else.....I have to stay on these darn pills for at least 3 more weeks till the next stim test, to see if it was from the shots, me or both...she acted like it would be very rare to have a cortisol disease,,,,,,though lucky for me her partner was testing me at that time!!!!I never would have known and you can die from it!!!(that is if you get really sick or have surgery, you can have an Addisonian crisis type of thing....)!!! I cannot believe they do not tell you tthat when getting these shots..or was it someihting in small print.....anyway the only thing I could come up with was by googling and from her.....very scary.....when I get the energy I will put up a big warning post! I asked about the leg cramps and she didn't seem to know.... i called today about that...she asked if I had something else going on...well yeah but.....