Keto Signup Thread
 

This thread is for people interested in starting the keto diet and reporting their results. I've been digging into keto research for the past couple months and am hopeful that this could result in a boost to my quality of my life. Right now, most of the research for keto diet has been for epileptic seizures but it's also believed to be beneficial for people with alzheimers and TBI's.

Dom D'Agostino, who has a PhD in molecular pharmacology and physiology, is a leader in this field. Below is his website and his recent podcast on Joe Rogan(long and technical) but describes why being in ketosis is beneficial to people with brain injuries.


KetoNutrition

Joe Rogan Experience #994 - Dom D'Agostino - YouTube

It would be amazing to get a large group of people with TBI on this diet and document the effects. It does take a few months for the body to adapt to using fat as its main fuel source and the first month is going to be a very hard transition.

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/bb/bb360...48179f6a60.jpg


Disclaimer:consult with your doctor before starting any diet.

I've been interested in keto ever since reading that higher levels of beta-hydroxybutyrate increased levels of BDNF in the brain but I've been having so much trouble with symptoms getting worse when I'm hungry that I don't think that the transition phase would be worth it for me. I've only been PCS:ed for 4-5 months though, so if this sticks around for longer I will try it out for sure.

How long have you been having symptoms?

6 years since my car accident. I tried keto for 2 days last month and my symptoms got really bad. I think the transition to keto is hard enough and is why I doubt many people with TBI have tried this route. There are things you can do to help prevent the "keto flu" such as take electrolyte supplements. Meal prep will also help the transition so you have plan for whole week.

What I'm really hopeful about is doing this with HBOT therapy. Dom mentions the benefits of doing both can be quite powerful.

Even for those that don't do full keto(and there are modified versions of keto) taking exogenous ketones and mct powder can still receive a lot of benefits. This a pretty new area and I know in general to be wary of the supplemental industry but I trust dom and he's one of the leaders in this field.

Yeah I'd be trying it out if I was 6 years in, for sure. Tim Ferris has a lot of videos on ketosis too, and I found this guide when researching the subjects last week:
How To Get Into Ketosis: The Quintessential Guide

I've heard KetoCaNa recommended aswell, it seems you can eat more carbs and still remain in ketosis if you supplement. I don't know if you're doing any workouts, but supposedly one could eat more carbs before the workout. I think you could get real benefits from doing this, BDNF should be key in our struggle to get rid of our symptoms:
Ketone beta-hydroxybutyrate up-regulates BDNF expression through NF-κB as an adaptive response against ROS, which may improve
neuronal bioenergetics and enhance neuroprotection (P3.9)

If you're not read up on BDNF it is a protein that promotes synaptogenesis, or, the formation of new connections between neurons. This is hugely important when it comes to rebuilding brain structures that are damaged, as BDNF is one of the key mechanisms behind brain plasticity overall

I found keto by trial and error after realizing eating rice, beans, pasta, pizza, oatmeal all in one day made my PCS symptoms worse. I cut them all out, went ketogenic, and my recovery immediately started happening faster. I've been eating this way for 1.5 years now, and stay low-carb based upon all the other metabolic benefits.

Keto wasn't a cure-all for my PCS, I still get symptoms if I bump my head or shake it the wrong way. However I still do feel better not eating all the garbage refined carbs. I recently went on a break with guests in town and much of the head fog is back after eating like crap for a week. KCKO

There's definitely a huge benefit to early concussion response and PCS recovery from simply removing metmike07's foods (refined carbs and processed sugars) as they ultimately lead to neuro-inflammation in most people.

For early concussion response, I don't think there's a benefit to a keto-diet. Optimal fat metabolism takes time to develop if you normally rely on glucose for energy. Since metabolism becomes impaired right after head impact you'd want to give the brain an easy glucose source from low-inflammation foods (ie. real unprocessed and low-glycemic foods).

But for PCS recovery, I think a keto-diet can be beneficial for improving PCS related metabolism dysfunction and reducing neuro-inflammation. The science and research that I rely on hasn't definitively shown this, however the current science being published seems to be leading down this path.

There's some positive research in other fields like Alzheimer's research that I think we 'post-concussed' heads can draw from.

I've personally cycled through a few types of keto-diets, including fasting and mct-oil induced states, I found it to be beneficial for reducing brain fog and enhancing cognitive function which directly resulted in a big improvement in my office work performance.

I would promote the keto-diet cycling as a beneficial tool for people who are "stuck" with PCS and looking for something to get their recovery out of a rut.

Some good reading:

1) This study provides a solid description of the cascade of events following a concussion:
The Neurometabolic Cascade of Concussion

2) This study provides some information on keto-diets and TBI:
Ketogenic Diet - Nutrition and Traumatic Brain Injury - NCBI Bookshelf

3) This 2017 study from the Alzheimer's research field showing benefits from keto-diets:
Ketogenic diets and Alzheimer’s disease - ScienceDirect

Cheers

Hains

From a broad observation of keto diets, It appears the main benefit may be from what foods are reduced or avoided than any ketosis effect. MCTs and other diets are like adding gas to a hybrid without regard for the fuel level in the tank. Only so much MCTs and other fats can be used. But, removing the carbs, especially bad carbs and being focused on healthy eating rather than the trash eating common to many diets can be a big benefit. The human body was never designed for the sugar and carb consumption levels common to many diets.

It would be interesting to see a compilation of the good carbs. Does the glycemic index (GI) of carbs have a direct relationship to good or bad carbs ?

Beans are our common carb. They have a GI in the 30s. A GI below 55 is good. Below 40 is great.

I am planning to try a variant of the SCD or GAPS diet, which shares the most important aspects of the ketogenic diet (in particular, no carbs). The GAPS diet was developed to help people with neurological disorders, based on the idea that many of those pathologies are due to an imbalance in the gut flora. I believe that there is some truth to it, that good gut health is important for the body to recover, and that - at the very least - the anti-inflammatory properties of this diet can be helpful.

I am planning to start next week and to try to do it for several months. I will report my progress here. I wish you all the best of luck.

this article on tbi and Keto talks about ketones as a fuel source and the benefits. Many of the items discussed I've heard Dom Dagostino mention in his podcast about the glut3 transponder being damaged in patients with TBI and is a cause of neuro-inflammation.

http://https://ketogenic.com/therapeutics/ketosis-traumatic-brain-injury/

I'm seeing doctors right now at Mayo and getting imagine done but will be starting Keto in the next month and post results. My headaches and brain fog/head pressure are horrible so will be good barometer for anyone else who has this as their main symptoms.

Read the rat studies "Rats received a daily 5–10 g/kg dose of their respective ketone supplement via intragastric gavage (force feeding by gastric tube)during treatment." A 50 kg person would need 250 to 500 g (.5 kg) of exogenous ketones each day, not just the small amount of ketones a liver releases from ketosis.

If one is to do this with a ketogenic diet, it requires a total dietary commitment for 7 days just to start ketosis.

Consuming exogenus ketones bypasses ketosis. But, at $60 for 30 servings of 4 grams each, it would cost $120 per day to get to 240 grams.

Rat studies are interesting but the fine details are very important.

The problem with keto diets is the promoters take a few comments from a study and make a mountain of claims. The promoters all have something to sell.

btw, Most of the concussion studies show the same thing. The therapeutic time is the first 48 hours. The rat study looked at prepping the rats with exogenous ketones before the impact and immediately after the impact. Most studies show limit value to these protocols after the first 48 hours or so. Reducing the negative dietary ingredients so as to not hamper healthy brain metabolism is still valuable.

We must remember, concussion is a process, not an event. Interupting the process in the first day is important.

But, if you commit to a keto diet with passionate beliefs, there is evidence that placebo effect can enhance any natural healing processes.

A PubMed search for "ketogenic diet" returns 2118 papers.

A search for "ketogenic diet" and "traumatic brain injury" returns 12 papers.

None of these 12 papers provide clinical evidence that a ketogenic diet is of benefit to people with TBI.

NT members may draw their own conclusions from this.

Dom talks about why there is a lack of studies for Keto and other ailments that it may be helpful for. Originally it was just used medically for epilepsy and the control of seizures and there is numerous research showing the efficacy is better than any drug without the side effects. The problem is it's very hard to do control studies with Keto and the nutrition science in general is way behind what current research is coming out with. Basically the food pyramid is completely wrong and how people view fats. It's not for everyone and some people tolerate carbs ok, but he said it's especially useful for people with deficits as it improved brain metabolism and a host of other functions.

This isn't some fad diet. I get why you might be skeptical and it's important that research be done and is being done currently. Figuring out the optimal macros(fat/carbs/protein) ratio and what the exact levels of ketones in the blood should be for a particular person is areas needed more research. People need to monitor their cholesterol #'s if they take on this diet but all in all, there isn't any downside I see to trying to see if it helps symptoms

Actually kiwi33, your statement is misleading and untrue.

Firstly, I reproduced your PubMed search using the same search terms you've mentioned above.

One of my search hits was a study by Greco et al titled Ketogenic diet decreases oxidative stress and improves mitochondrial respiratory complex activity. This study concluded with the following statement:
"These results strongly suggest that ketones improve post-TBI cerebral metabolism by providing alternative substrates and through antioxidant properties, preventing oxidative stress-mediated mitochondrial dysfunction."

Ketogenic diet decreases oxidative stress and improves mitochondrial respiratory complex activity. - PubMed - NCBI

Secondly, a search with the terms "ketogenic diet" AND "concussion" found an article by Prins and Matsumoto (2014) titled The collective therapeutic potential of cerebral ketone metabolism in traumatic brain injury. This study concluded the following:
"Preclinical studies employing both pre- and postinjury implementation of the ketogenic diet have demonstrated improved structural and functional outcome in traumatic brain injury (TBI) models, mild TBI/concussion models, and spinal cord injury."

Thematic Review Series: Calorie Restriction and Ketogenic Diets: The collective therapeutic potential of cerebral ketone metabolism in traumatic brain injury


kiwi33, I hope you understand that that people on this form struggle for extended periods of time with PCS as the science is just starting to come out of the dark ages of brain and concussion research. This is evident to everybody who has gone to the doctors office for a concussion and gone home with a useless prescription and no real solutions. Up until the last few years people with brain injuries were dismissed with psychological issues because of naivety and ignorance in the medical community. There is no magical pill or one-off solution to PCS. Many people suffer for years and years with little hope and no good ideas for recovery. It is critically important that we explore options like ketosis, promising new sciences that could offer relief to people who struggle endlessly. Your statement does not support such progress and you offer no alternative solutions, you're just putting up brick walls **

Not every idea is backed by double blind gold standard studies which take years to complete and cost millions of dollars. These types of clinical studies are often only affordable to big pharmaceutical companies who have no interest in suggesting that people change their diet. They want people to be hooked on pills, the evidence is clear. I've seen you chime in on a few different threads for different PCS topics, always with the same negative theme. You should be careful with your statements as they cause one to question your ethics.

Hains

A key issue in each of these studies is the timing of the ketosis. The rats are put into ketosis within hours of the injury. The benefits seen appear to be a result of stopping the cascade of concussion symptoms.

The need for early intervention has been known for at least a decade. The problem is determining which concussion needs the early intervention. Some studies suggest only 1 out of 8 needs early intervention but all 8 would need to be treated with this early intervention to benefit the 1 that needs it.

It would be great to see these rats studies delay ketogenic diets for a few weeks. Allow the cascade to start then see if the cascade can be stopped or reversed.

Hains, Big Pharma could support these studies and sell proprietary forms of exogenous ketones for early intervention. Imagine the market for $500 to $1000 worth of exogenous ketones for every diagnosed concussion.

Now, imagine the health insurance companies saying No, not everybody with a concussion needs this treatment. We will only approve it for the 1 in 8 who do.

I say, Go ahead and promote the ketogenic diet. Just be honest and read the studies and find the specifics of each study. It is easy to control the diet of lab rats who have no ability to eat anything but what is put in their cage. Some are even gastrically fed. To me, is sounds like they would not voluntarily eat the exogenous ketone foods. Would you consume 600 to 1000 grams of exogenous ketones each day? That is 0.5% to 1% of your body weight each day.

Read the studies and find the specifics. It is usually a tough read but with effort, one can find the specifics.