Someone lent us a TENS Unit
 

I'm starting a new thread on this because I never even held one in my hand before, let alone used one. I'm not using it because, well, I want to see if Alan lights up like a Christmas Tree or whatever. I have not forgotten what happened to me when the podiatrist used that vibrating planing tool on my toes. UGH!!!

So it's a ProM-300 TENS unit.
I just opened up the manual and said "you've got to be kidding'. I'm afraid I'll electrocute myself with this thing. Reminds me of when, years ago, I purchased a home jacuzzi, portable system, that you hooked up to the side of the tub and plugged it in and it was supposed to turn your bathtub into a whirlpool. I purchased it on my lunch hour and read the office staff what the manual said. There must have been 10 WARNINGs, on the pages. Don't do this, don't do that. So I told them, "if I don't come in tomorrow, I electrocuted myself". Well, I went home, took one look at the thing and said "forget it, I'm not plugging this thing into an electrical socket and stepping into the bathtub". I never used it, BUT, the next day, I got some kind of flu and never went to work and they all called my house thinking I electrocuted myself. I never laughed so hard, even with a headache.

I just opened the manual and it says stuff like Burst Mode, and Modulation Mode. I'm supposed to understand this thing??? Adjust Channel Amplitude.???

This unit was used by my friend's 82 year old mother so if she can do it, I guess we can do it too. I'm reading about pins and lead wires, and sockets (Oh my god).

Uh Oh, it says to use gel. Just checked inside the case and there is no gel. So do I go to a medical supply store and buy the gel???

OY VEY!!!! lol
Melody

I wonder, how difficult is it to get a Tens Unit? Can the doctor write a script for it?

A doctor can certainly write such an order.
 

My neurologist wrote mine; and I got a portable Empi unit, with two electrodes that are independently programmable, twelve different pulse patterns, and an intensity scale that ranges from zero to fifty. it runs off a rechargable nickel-cadmium 9-volt "transistor" battery. It's not one of those huge contraptions that one finds in physicl therapy offices, but it is good for what it is.

I originally got it to help with the thigh pain of meralgia parasthetica (a great addition to my neuropathy symptoms), but have used it all over my body. The pads at the end of the electrode wires come with a sticky gel already on them, to aid in the impulse conduction, although that means you can only use the pads a few times each before they lose gel and conductivity. Empi calls me each month to see if I need more sets of pads, and sends them by express mail.

I find the unit effective as long as I am using it--the electrical impulses mask the pain or tingling, as they are conducted to the brain more quickly than those sensations. After I shut the unit down and remove the pads, thouhg, the sensations come back fairly quickly. There are times, however, when they do not, almost as if the pulses have "re-programmed" the fifirng patterns of the nerves in that area. That happens only after really long session (hours), though, and not consistently.

Does this help in the long run too? Or just when the pain is strong? I had thought the clinic I was at was going to have that but they didn't. Melody could you maybe call the doc you work with on how to use it? Maybe even at the medical supply store they would know. Let us know I'm so interested in other treatments.

Well, I can't call the doctor, because he didn't prescribe it. My friend lent it to me for as long as Alan needs it. I thought it would come with gel that you put on because I read something about gel in the litle booklet that comes with it.

Now I read here on these boards that the little pads already have gel on them, really??? Didn't know that.

I'm scared to death to use this item. I know Alan, he'll pick up the book, take a look at all the instructions, the diagrams, the electrode info, the lead wire info, the amplitude info (I have no idea what these things are), and he'll hand me the stuff and say "here, Melody, you put this on me"

See, this is a man who points a remote at the cable box, and when it doesn't work, yells for me and says 'why can't I change the channel,?? and I look at him, burst out laughing, and say "you can't change the channel on the cable box, because you are pointing the VCR remote at it". He goes "oh,".

So believe me, if I dont' understand this and find out how it works, Alan will never use it. Or, even if he does, he'll light himself up like a christmas tree".

Dr. Theirl once told us he would lend us a unit if we so desired.

I was hoping one of you learned people who have used this would gently guide me in the process. For my first question, do I go out and buy gel, or do the pads actually have gel on them, (and how do I find this out?)

I really can't understand how this could help with pain, but Alan said "It redirects the pain signals to the brain". See, he might not know how to use remotes, but he does understand pain receptors.. lol.

Will update all of you. Melody

Mel,
I had the TENS treatments before, for a fractured finger
(that never healed right & is still 'bent').
You use the lowest settings for pulse and intensity, then gradually increase them until you feel a 'tingle' & is not uncomfortable.
Stay at those settings - or back off 1 setting.
You may want to play around at the pulse rate, but never more than is comfortable. Keep it going for anywhere from 5-10 mins to 1 hour and see if you get relief.
The pads have 'sticky-backs' gel is not necessary.
Hairy areas should be shaved for best stick/contact.

Nide44:

Thanks much. Now here's my question. Alan has PN pain between certain toes of his left foot and certain toes of his right foot.

Both feet are completely numb (he never knows if he has his socks on).
And his feet burn (before a rain, THEY REALLY BURN),

So where do we place the electrodes? Anyplace on the underside of his feet? On the tops of his feet?? Or because there are 4 pads, do I just take the pads and place them between the toes and then turn on the juice (at the lowest thing, I read what you said)?

Or does it matter where you place the pad. For example, if we put the pad on the top of one of the toes and turn it on, does the zapping thing only affect the area that it is zapping, or will it zap the whole foot (even though it's on low). See, Alan won't feel anything, so how do we know it's helping him??

I think I need to take a video course on Tens Units. As a matter of fact, I'm going to do a search on the internet. They have videos on everything, and if I could find a video of my Vidalia smart chopper, I most certainly should find a video of a Tens unit and how one uses it.

I remember, when I was prescribed Lantus (I had never given myself an injection before in my life), well before i even had the syringes in my house, I went to the Lantus website and I watched how to give oneself an injection. I must have watched that video a hundred times. I can now give myself an injection blindfolded (lol), but the first time was a doozy.

So before I go and plug Alan in, I want to see how others plug themselves in (if you get my drift).

Thanks so much.

Melody
P.S. What would I do without you guys on this forum??

Being that his PN is in his feet you can also get a divided foot bath or two buckets, put water and epsom salts in each side or each bucket and place one lead on one side or one bucket and the other lead on the other side or other bucket. This will make the tens more effective. It is how the rebuilder works basically, and it is totally safe. When you feel the tingle it is set high enough.

Hi Mel, i have a machine that is very similar to a T.E.N.S, it was really made for use on acupuncture points but it does the exact same thing as a T.E.N.S machine, runs on 4 small batteries, no gel with this one, but i just wet the skin with a tiny bit of water were the electrode was going under the electrode then secured it on with some adhesive tape, it made the pulse a lot stronger.
I used it on my feet, it helped me with the burning feeling whilst i had it on and for a while after too and i agree with Bob 100 % in that starting on a very low setting is only and safest way to go, i think its sorta trial and error until you get the right strength for the individual.
I hope it helps him.
all the best,
Brian :)

Brian:

Since this is not my machine, I'm not using it with any water. I have read about the rebuilder and all that is, is a TENS unit that you use with water.

We can't afford that either.

But the thing I simply wanted to do was find a video online to see exactly how a person would set up this thing. Attach the electrodes, where to place it, etc. etc.


Well, since I couldn't find it by typing into yahoo. "instructional video on the use of a TENS unit". I figured I would go to youtube. Now youtube.com has videos on absolutely anything. If you want to see a person eating a grasshopper I know you can find it on youtube.

So I typed in TENS unit and you would not believe what came up. There's a guy who has a tens unit on his arm and everyone is laughing as his hand contracts. They are having a ball just watching his hand contract and they are daring him to turn up the voltage.

But the thing that really freaked me out is that some guy attached his TENS unit (to a certain part of his anatomy) to see what would happen.

I didn't have the guts to watch this video.

Some people are absolutely nuts on this planet.

I will continue to search on the net. There has to be a instructional video somewhere on the internet.

If anyone knows where it, please post a link, okay??

Thanks.

and if I can't find any videos, I gather I will just read the manual and Alan and I will figure something out.

Good Lord

I have read about what Joe was talking about with the buckets of water a while back, apparently it does work, i haven't tried it myself so Joe is the best one to explain the buckets of water method,

With the one i have, its in the manual itself that you must wet the skin or the electrode before actually placing the electrodes on a person, i have tried it without and it doesn't work any were near as good.

here is a link were they use water on the contacts instead of gel, with a TENS machine.
http://www.sportstek.net/wireless-tens.htm

I can understand and respect you for being extra careful seeing its not your machine.

Brian, I clicked on the sportek link. Fascinating stuff.

And what made it even more fascinating is that this machine uses CUPPING also.

Now, I don't know if this is the same CUPPING that my italian grandmother used to do 40 years ago. Let me explain. Oh, the CUPPING used back then was to get pnemonia, bronchitis, or a simple cold, out of your lungs.

Here's what she did to me. I must have been 10 years old, with a bad congestion. My grandmother's little old lady friend came into my house and she took a candle, a clear wine glass and a quarter.

Oh, in italian, they used to call this PICCERADA. Do not ask me why, that's what they called this in my house.

So I lay on my stomach and my mother exposed my back. This little old lady took the quarter, put it in a piece of cloth, and took the lit candle, put the candle to the cloth and it went on fire, and immediately put the lit cloth containing the quarter on my back. Then she immediately put the wine class out of it. The CUPPING happened when the wine glass made a whoosh sound and pulled part of my skin up into the wine glass. Everybody stood around me going "ooh, look, the cold is leaving her lungs and coming out of her body. She did this 10 times on my back, and when she removed the wine glass, it made a popping sound. It also left rings on my back.

Well, (and I don't remember if I got better or whatever), but I DO REMEMBER what happened the next day when my mother took me to the family doctor and he decided to take his stethiscope and examine my lungs. When he raised my blouse and saw all the rings on my back, he stood back and said "what the hel* are these rings all over Melody's back??" My mother proceeded to explain that this was the italian way to take a cold out of the body.

That doctor gave it in spades to my mother. He made her promise (and I will never forget his words). "Please, no more voodoo"

So I have no idea if the CUPPING that is mentioned in this TENS UNIT thing, is what they are talking about. But boy, did it bring back memories.

Melody

Tens Unit
 

:)
I Have Had One For 15yrs, My Nuero Gave It Me & Showed Me How It Worked [ Easy For Her ]
I Had Back Pain Due To Laminectomy 35 Yrs Ago,
Try Placing Those Electrodes On Your Own Back By Yourself
{ Not Easy For Me ] I Soon Gave Up On That One, Got More Pain Using The Things.
Sophia Uk

Melody - I have no knowledge of a tens unit but I wanted to say that if you have a choice, don't put the electrodes on top of the foot. I had some pain treatment from a podiatrist several years ago and he was adamant about not applying this gel on top of my foot near the base of the toes which is where I was then having the most problems. (I think it was associated with ultrasound but it WAS for pain relief, strange I know)

Try the "toughest" part first, what about his heel or the ball of his foot?

Good luck and keep us posted. I was also interested in a tens unit and wondering if there was any long lasting benefits. Seems like it might "reprogram" the pain paths that I read about occasionally which say that once you have the pain, your memory of the pain may keep it going even if the source of the pain is removed.

Texas Geek:

you wrote: "don't put the electrodes on top of the foot. I had some pain treatment from a podiatrist several years ago and he was adamant about not applying this gel on top of my foot near the base of the toes which is where I was then having the most problems."

Now that's exactly where Alan has the pain. So why would I put the electrodes on the hardest part of the foot? Like the heel??

I am thoroughly confused now!!!!

Anybody????

Melody

Mel--
 

--you probably could put the pads on Alan's foot tops, provided it was on a low setting.

There's a considerable amount of trial and error involved in finding the best places to put the pads, the best wave form to use, and the best intensity level. Even small shifts in pad position, with the wave form/intestity remaining the same, produces different sensations in different places.

The pads that I use have the conductive gel on them, in order to allow for the current to make a circuit--normal skin is actually somewhat resistant to current, so this helps. It's also why one uses the pads at least two at a time in an area (in different places)--to make a circuit that (hopefully) includes the region you want to target.

The general principle is that the electrical impulses coming from the unit interfere with the slower pain impulses that come from the small-fiber nerves, but there also seems to be some evidence that usage over time can re-ccordinate the nerve firing pattern in an area and therefore reduce the pain long-term. (Pain is often thought to be maintained in an area by patterns of neural firing that get triggered more easily the more they are elicited, to the point that normal non-painful stimuli trigger them, resulting in allodynia--TENS and inferential therapy units, as well as the Rebuilder, work on the theory that one can "re-train" the neural circuits and make them more likely to fire in less painful patterns, if one makes them fire in these patterns often enough.)

Okay, I read what you said (didn't understand a lot), but I'm learning.

So I have four pads with some aluminum siding on the back. I assume, I peel back the aluminum and stick the pads (now where do I put these four pads), two on each foot, I assume??? Exactly where should I put the pads.

I will read the manual and learn how much voltage, etc. etc. and for how long. Just tell me please exactly where to position the pads.

I'll electrocute this man yet!!!!! lol

Melody

I am no expert but you usually place then right on the sore area, everyone is differant and may not react the same, if he wants to try it i would play safe with a very light strength to start with and see how he goes, as you know very well unfortunately how the nerves can react as its part of the small nerves job is to sense vibration.
I placed my electrodes on the top of my feet, on a light slow pulse, i tried the soles but didn't feel anything and that was the same with my magnets they only worked on top of my feet, but those i left on all the time, except for bathing and they worked much better than the electrodes probably because they were on 24/7 and the electrodes were only for 3 or 4 hours at a time.
good luck
Brian :)

Well, I'm not the one that's going to use this gadget, that's for sure. Alan's feet are completely numb and he has the PN between certain toes of his feet. I asked him where he wants to put these things and he said "on the bottom of my heel". Now i have no idea why he said this but tomorrow, during Alan's visit with the new podiatrist at Methodist, I will definitely bring up the tens unit and ask this guy what we should do. I just hope he doesn't go "What's a TENS UNIT?". The reason I said that??? When Alan had his first 5 IVIG treatments at the hospital, I remember leaving his room, walking over to the front desk and seeing a doctor just sitting there. I said "do you mind if I pick your brain about IVIG treatments??" His response?? "What is IVIG?" And yeah, he was a physician.



Melody

:D :D i just burst out laughing with what that response was off the doc :D :D
my god we put our lives in these people hands :eek: scary isn't ?
Believe me.,since the start of my PN i have met some real d... heads that call themselves doctors & specialists, the only real good doctor was my neuro, who doesn't even charge me anything extra to see him in his consulting rooms besides what the goverment allows for a visit.

Well, Mel, I just wrote a long reply pontificating about all my knowledge about TENS, but it somehow got erased. You are so lucky. The short version is: TENS can cause a burn under the electrode if improperly used. Since Alan has a history of poor wound healing on his feet, don't use this unless you get a referral to a physical therapist who can evaluate him and instruct in the proper use. I am worried about his feet, due to his history of skin problems and the fact that he might not be able to feel the TENS burning him. A new wound could be devastating for him.

Thank you my dear. I never ever thought of this.
Tomorrow we see the new podiatrist at Methodist and we will ask him what he thinks of TENS UNITs in general.

What a good point. Never would have thought, that because he is completely numb, that he might get a burn.

But, just to be clear about his wounds healing, or not healing, HE HEALS PERFECTLY FINE. The reason for his foot ulcer is that he has a bone impingement on the bottom of his foot. He has no diabetes so when he heals, HE HEALS PERFECT.

So we have to find out tomorrow if this new guy will consider shaving down the bone, so when his foot ulcer ultimately heals, and he can walk again, that there will be no more bone impingement.

At least we are crossing fingers and toes.

Will update when we come back tomorrow.

And thanks so much for giving me the info about possibly burning his feet. Never would have seen that one coming.

Melody

Machines like TENS are very simple to operate and can really help some types of pain, but seeing Alan can't feel anything in his feet, Dakota brings up a good point, if it got accidentally turned up to the highest setting and left running for who knows how long and Alan couldn't feel anything, this would be a real worry.

I have used my machine up on very high settings when my hip was giving me grief, i never got any burns or anything but there is big differance, i could feel it and i knew when to turn it down, i think playing safe as you are is wise.

I have a Rebuilder, which doesn't seem to benefit me on the other settings. I've been considering using the TENS settings to see whether I can get some muscles going that were deserted by motor function a long time ago, but don't know where to place the pads.

Guess I better get a book?

Would love more information on the unit that is related to accupuncture. What's it called?

rose

Rose, a TENS unit isn't designed to stimulate motor fibers, although it sometimes will a little bit if turned up high and placed just right. There are other units designed to stimulate motor nerves to get muscles going. Since you are getting a return of nerve function, I think a physical therapist could help you if you have insurance coverage for this. A therapist could evaluate you and set you up with an FES unit (Functional Electrical Stimulation) -- those are designed to stimulate motor function.

Well, we just came home from the podiatrist. Alan is now wearing a boot. It's called a CAM WALKER. The doctor also gave us a little tube of regranex. Since I know how expensive this stuff is, we are treating it like gold.

The doctor showed me exactly what to do with Alan every single morning before he puts the boot on. Since I've been dressing this particular foot ulcer for over a year, I think I can do this.

Just came back from drug store where I got more bandages, gauze rolls, etc.

Oh, this boot has a pump on it. The doctor says "Don't use the pump, Alan has neuropathy, and he can't tell if it's too tight", or something to that effect. So we are not using the pump.

Also, I was so engrossed in this new doctor (he took 3 new x-rays of Alan's foot), that I forgot to ask him about the tens unit. Alan goes back next Tuesday. He doesn't think he will need anything shaved. He just said "this thing has to heal completely, so we have to deal with that first". He was very professional. He had an attending resident working under him and you should have seen their faces after they asked Alan "When did you first know you had neuropathy?" I said "oh, let me tell you what happened during that first visit. I explained: "The doctor, diagnosed Alan with neuropathy, then looked at Alan and asked "Alan, have you ever had sex with a vietnamese woman?"

These two guys started to laugh as I told them the story. I continued....The doctor then looked at Alan and said "you think I'm kidding, but I'm not, Alan have you ever had sex with a vietnamese woman? and Alan said something to the effect "are you out of your mind, what kind of question is that to ask in front of my wife?" and the doctor said "I need to know if you ever went to Vietnam because during the Vietnam war, the soldiers had sex with the local women and 20 plus years later, they came down with neuropathy due to syphilis". Well, after assuring his doctor that he never had syphilis, well, it's been 15 years of trying to find out why he has neuropathy.

These two doctors (today), thought that was the most fascinating story they ever heard. It was a very good visit and we are hopeful. As soon as I said CIDP and IVIG, they both went 'OH,,OKAY!!!" It was nice to speak to professionals who knew what CIDP and IVIG is.


So, no more off loading shoe. That was $150 out the window.

Now he is wearing this boot contraption.

Will update.
Melody

Thanks, Dakota. :)

rose

tens machine
 

Hi all
Just would like to add my thoughts on the Tens
I did have an older type one which was a waste of time,
but went to a pain specialist,
and now have a new Tens NeuroTrac Tens, not the Sports model
Now these pads are placed each side of the spine and they interfere with the signals coming from ones feet.
the pads are far bigger on the newer model .
Its gives a nice feel about it
I wear it for up to 8 hours per day, and the controls fit into ones shirt pocket
The cost was $ 195.00 New Zealand $$$,
Hope this helps, have had this beast of a problem for 9 years
am currently on Nuerontin 3300 mgs, Lamotrigine 3/50mgs
and Amitriptyline 50mg at night time ,
Have had no side effects from all of them ,
I still have good days and bad days
Cheers from New Zealand ( Aotearoa ) meaning the land of the long white cloud , Hows that :) :)

Hi there New Zealand:

Alan hasn't even had a chance to try this TENS thing yet because he's wearing a cast (shoe boot thing).

I asked him yesterday, "are you ever going to try this?" and he said "oh, absolutely, when this thing comes off".

So we shall wait.

Oh, and I almost killed him (maybe I'm wrong, but someone tell me, okay). He goes out yesterday and buys a pair of FUTURO compression socks.

Size large because on the back of this box it indicates if you are a certain shoe size then you should get this size sock.

So he comes home and we take one of the socks out and these are tight socks. Now remember, he's all bandaged up where the foot ulcer is. I said "now why on earth would you buy compression socks, you were never told you had to do this, your circulation is just fine"? and he goes: "well, the shoe boot rubs me (we knew this might happen and they give you pads for this, but I guess the pads weren't enough).

So just imagine me this morning, after I put the bandage on the foot ulcer (which is healing nicely due to the regranex), at least this appears to be the case......so I"m trying to get this sock thing over the bandage, well, forget it, with my arthtic hands, it's a no go. So he takes it and even though the thing is tight, he got it over his foot, up his calf (it reaches just to the tip of his knee. Then he puts the shoe boot on.

I just looked at him and I said 'these socks aren't too tight, they don't hurt you? and he goes "are you kidding, they feel great, they are compressing all the blood and it's going into my feet and I feel fine". He says he's very comfortable. It's not squeezing the life out of him.

Now my friend Bernard wears these compression stockings (he's a diabetic, has a bad foot ulcer, wears the same shoe boot, etc.).

So I guess this stocking can't do him any harm, right? He does say it has stopped the rubbing on his legs and shin (from the shoe boot).

Let me know okay??

Thanks,
Melody

Melody, why don't you have him by the next size larger. Then you will have less concerns about it affecting his circulation and it will still stop the rubbing? (I know, more $$$$$.....)

He spent $14.00 on these. I saw (at least this is my opinion), that these are too small but he showed me the back of the box and it's the size he is supposed to get. I just made a new thread on this topic. Alkymist was kind enough to respond and I showed Alan the posting.

Now it's all up to my stubborn husband. If he dares come home tomorrow morning with a red leg, or something else happens, I shall happily take one of my muffins and clobber him. Believe me.

Melody

As weird as it might sound...why not get him some Knee-hi support hose...yes, the womens kind. I'd worry about pressure on the ulcer in a way that might make things worse with compression stockings. After all, one of the main problems with diabetics is difficulty healing and that's from had circulation with the blood not getting to the feet like it should. Compression stockings are made to keep blood and other fluids from pooling in the feet. And the support hose would be cooler as well I'd think. Get him some black ones and he won't know the difference. :D

By the way...I'm suggesting this cause I'm thinking he wants something that won't slip around on his feet and cause blister type problems or bunch up as regular socks are liable to do?

Duh! Now I see it! I thought Alan was diabetic as well! Now why did I think that? *wanders off to ponder this*

Hi Jarrett:

Alan couldn't care less about socks bunching up or anything. He wants the rubbing to stop.

I think the knee-hi's are a fabulous idea.

I'll buy a pair, in black. and I'll tell him this is a new man-thing for men with shoe boots. Maybe he'll buy my story, maybe he won't. But if he wants another muffin, he better buy it.

lol, Melody

ROFLMAO!!! I was thinking that when I typed it...just tell him it's the latest thing... :D And did I mention? They're much cooler than compression stockings.... Yeah, I think I did.

The heat is frying brain cells.

Barbara

Pad placement
 

We borrowed an 'Energy Wellness Micro-Frequency Generator' (no longer made. Best pad placement for PN on feet was with each foot in 'twin tub'.
Hookup the pads and place on on bottom of each comprtment. Fill with about 2 inches of warm water (reverse osmosis if possible). After setting up code, gradually increase level until your feet feel the pulses - but not enought to make the muscles contract.:)

Sounds like the Rebuilder!

Melody, I'll get the name of the special conductive gel tomorrow when I go in for a TENS treatment. Of course, no gel is used when the pads are used underwater (in separate compartments of twin cleaning bucket).
Cal

Hi Mel
 

Rehab gave me mine and it helped a lot with the PN in my neck. Hugs Sue

HI.

This posting was over a year ago. Alan has never used the Tens unit after that. He just uses this vibrating gadget that he puts on his thighs when he is on the couch. It brings blood into his foot and the tingling stops. Or I give him a full body massage and he goes into heaven. I did this yesterday and he fell right asleep. Nothing hurts him when I massage his back.

So I do thank you for the information though.

We still have that tens unit. Belongs to the lady around the corner.

Melody