So should i or should i not take b12 vitamin?
 

A few days ago i posted some questions about autoimmune neuropathies. Melody recomended that i take Methyl b12, because of the benefits she's received from it. So when i read her post, i decided to take it. I had some difficulties because iherb does no ship to Mexico, but i finally found someone from the Staes who is willing to order it and take it to me here. So before i start taking b12 i would like you to help me understand somethings because i have been reading all kinds of contradictory information.

First i read on another post it is recommended to take ONLY Methyl b12, since b12 is the vitamin required for nerve repair. But i read on another post that taking all the b complex is better because having just one type of the b complex can actually lead to some sort of imbalance. So what is the truth, or what do you think is the best in my case (i have an autoimmune neuropathy, i expirience pins, needles, numbness and other weird sensations in my legs). I also read taking only Methyl b12 is better because it can better be absorbed by the body. So, what do you think?? should i take methyl b12 or the whoe b vitamin complex?? I case i decide to take only b12 vitamin (which i am likely going to do, due to Mel's incredible improvement), how should i take it?? What is the recommended dose??

I was also reading someone mentioned vitamin b6 can worsen neuropathy. Is this true?? Is this suppossed to mean that taking b vitamin complex is not a good idea??

An other question. Do you think Methyl b12 can only hel people with diabetic neuropathy. My neuropathy is, as i mentioned before, immune mediated, so taking methyl b12 is as useful no matter the underlying cause of the neuropathy??

I would also like to know if you think taking so many vitamins can lead to mor issues. I am currently on vitamin c and e (it was prescribed by a doctor) and i am also on imuran, novotiral and other stuff. What do you think guys???

Well, last but not least. I decided to give hyperbaric medicine a try. Here in Mexico it is not as expensive as it is in the states. I am paying 350 pesos per session which is about 35 american dollars. To me that's affordable. I have good expectations about it, i know no medicine is magic and i know that if ti works it will take time. The doctor explained how healing occurs, and how important oxygen is in this process. There'e a woman in the clinic who told me how better she was after 15 sessions. I have been experiencing what i call "healing sensations". I think this might be to a healing process acceleration. I will definetly keep you informed about the outcome, just in case you're interested.

Thank you everybody.

Hi,

Most people can convert the cyanocobalamin form to a smaller amount of methylcobalamin. The reason to take methylcobalamin if you can get it (thanks to your angel you did:) ) is that it covers some unlikely possibilities. It just makes sense to take the best when you can.

Cyanocobalamin has saved lives and helped people repair for decades. Methylcobalamin is just better.

It is good to take a B complex (also, and at a different time) just because you might not have the optimal amount of one of the other vitamins, and the body can't do its best work if it doesn't have the tools. With B12, there isn't a need to worry about imbalance.

Methylcobalamin isn't the only one that can be absorbed. When a large enough dose is taken at one time, even those with severe malabsorption can benefit.

Methylcobalamin dose: at least 1000 mcg, and many times more is safe.

Too much B6, or too little B6, can cause nerve problems. Don't take huge doses. Most B complex keep it down to 50 mg or less. That is good, although damage is very rare even at 200 mg.

Yes, methylcobalamin is good to take no matter what the cause. And studies have shown it helpful even in some cases where there is no deficiency.

If you read my website (not a lot, but very important information), more of your questions about B12 will be answered.

rose

Rose has been the resident B-12 expert here for quite some time. I do not believe anybody has gone wrong by following her advice. I have been taking a good B-complex, supplemented with B-12 for quite awhile.

It is just one of those things that is a no-brainer, within reason due to finances. I take the methyl just in case I have trouble absorbing the cyano . . . I have no evidence of such, but when trying to heal damaged nerves, I want to do anything safe that might help. I go for 5 mg (5000 mcg) every night, sublingual, long after I have taken all the rest of my pills.

I am certainly interested in your experience with hyperbaric therapy. I would urge you to post periodic follow-ups. And good luck with your treatment!

rafi

It's
 

always nice to hear from you,and i hope you listen to Rose. And i agree
with R come back and let us know how you are. :) Sue

Hi Monica, i think a lot of people here will be interested in your progress with the
hyperbaric therapy, so please do keep us up to date.

We here in Australia can't get the best form of B12 [ Methylcobalamin ] in supplement form either, unless we import it in, but it costs about 70 bucks a bottle so i use 2 or 3mg of B12 Cynocobalamin daily, which still does the trick
but i think it takes longer to get the benefits, i also get shots of b12 Hydroxocobalamin off my doctor which with the two types combined has really helped me a lot.
good luck with it all
Brian :)

Brian:

You can't go to iherb.com and pay with a credit card and they won't ship the Methyl to you in Australia?????

Mel

Yes Melody, you can get in through the iherb company, others here in OZ have posted some time ago, that they have got it in with iherb, it used to be that our customs would hold orders up and iherb at one stage wouldn't send it to Australia, but going by others the customs are more relaxed and are allowing it through with no hiccups.
Its the price of shipment thats stops me, i think it was about $70 for one bottle, may be cheaper to order in bulk but its a lot of money on a Disabilty pension.
Our stupid goverment allows methylcobalin to be made up for injections, there is a place in Melbourne that makes it, but i think you have to be a doctor to order it or it has to be sent to a doctors premises, its is really stupid that they won't allow them to make it in supplement form.
We can buy the injectable form of b12 Hydroxocobalamin which is pretty good stuff without a script, only $12 for 2 shots, if you have a script its only $4.80 on a pension.
I am lucky i can take cynocobalamin, but yeah, its all wrong.
all the best,
Brian :)

Wow, Brian:


I had no idea the shipping was so expensive.

Here's hoping that something changes over at your end so you can finally purchase the Methyl.

I know it works. It works for me and I've been on it for over 3 months now.

All I can do is hope that you will find a way to get it.

All the best

Melody

Yeah Mel, its expensive alright, at first i was getting methyl through via another country, no problems with customs that way, i don't know why :confused:, the shots of b12 i get is still very good stuff it goes directly into the blood and does a good job, and i am pretty well ok now with my PN, only take cynno for insurance really.
I have read how good its been for you which is a terrific result.
all the best,
Brian :)

Thank you all for your replies. I will start on Methyl b12 as soon as the person who bought it for me gets here. It is a shame they don't ship this to other countries...

I am really glad i found this forum. I see people here are not ontly well informed but also willing to help others. I really appreciate that.

As far as hyperbaric medicine is concerned i will defenitely keep you informed. I have taken 6 sessions so far, the doctor says i may need 20 or 25, but i will let you know how it turns out. I am aware nerve regeneration is a slow process but i am really positive about the effects this treatment may have. I'll keep you informed.

Thank you again

Hi Monica,

Gosh, I see why you would get confused.

I will, for myself, try to write more clearly from now on.

When I say that someone should get Methylcobalamin and only Methylcobalamin, I mean that they should not get the cyanocobalamin form... which works if someone is not very deficient, but isn't as effective if someone needs a lot of repair.

And yes, you should take a B complex with it.. B vitamins work best as a group.

It's good to remember that Folic acid can mask the signs of low B12...

this last summer I was taking a lot of B Complex to rid me of my allergies, which it does, and very well, I might add.

But then I wasn't having many syptoms of low B12, so I began to have less B12 injections. Everything was fine for a short time, then not so fine.

So I now realize that if I take a lot of the B vitamins it seems to relieve symptoms of low B12... and I suppose in fact it relieves those symptoms because they are also symptoms of low B vitamins of other kinds, as well.

So yes, do take the Methylcobalamin and a B complex to go with it.


As an aside, there's an internet vitamin company that does ship to Mexico:
Vitacost.

I order from them every month, and have been very satisfied.

You should be able to google them. :)

:)

****

Oh Gosh, re the hyperbaric...

I looked into it when I had the hydrogen sulfide poisoning ... and I found one really interesting article about some team, I forget if it was NFL or baseball, but they got a chamber for injured players, but then all the players started using it and then they stopped EVER winning home games.

The author of the article was attached to the team in some way, but I forget how.

He guessed that the reason they stopped winning home games was the hyperbaric chamber... apparently it depletes negative ions...

He guessed that the reason they won away games was that they were able to get more negative ions into their systems...

So then I read about negative ions and they come from the sea air, pine forest air... and Epsom salts baths' steam...

At the time I was on Celebrex to reduce the swelling around my sternum that was causing a lot of chest pain... but I would still get major swelling in my ankles, and the Epsom salts helped a lot.

I have a neat page on Epsom salts... Maybe if you Google it will come up for you. :)

Cyanocobalamin is not just for people who aren't very deficient. If that is the form someone can get, and they are very deficient and even malbsorb B12 severely, it is almost a sure thing that they will be able to convert to methylcobalamin and repair what is repairable.

However, more methylcobalamin is an extra edge that is very important to a small minority of those who need B12. It's like buying a rider on your insurance policy. And since the price is not high, if you can get it, why not?

Please, those who can only get cyanocobalamin, do not believe that cyanocobalamin is not for people with serious problems, even near death due to B12 deficiency. It has been saving lives for over half a century! Only if you are in a small minority will it not give you what you need.

rose

What causes me to say that anyone who needs replacement a lot, should get the Methylcobalamin, is that before I understood about B12, but I had seen my test results and where the doctor had written that I had a PROFOUND B12 deficiency, I went to the store and got a MegaB complex with B12 in it in the cyanocobalamin form.

I took a lot of them, with a lot of liquid, all day long. And they got rid of my allergies, completely! So that was dynamite.

But when I had a B12 test there was NO difference in my level. NONE.



Some time after that I worked with a young girl who had quite a lot of stress and she was so exhausted all the time. She was beautiful, everyone agreed about that, but she was just so so so tired.

When I saw that she had ridges on her fingernails I got her to buy a B vitamin complex, and for her it worked great. She began to feel so much different, and she went to college and was so different.

She came back to tell me about all the changes in her life.


So, from those experiences I have to admit that the cyanocobalamin form works for some people.

However, I KNOW that it did not work for me because I had B12 tests before and after taking several bottles of it.


Everyone should keep notes so they can see how things work for them... For sure!

Most healthfood stores carry Methylcobalamin. And in countries where their healthfood stores don't carry it, there are vitamin places that ship to many of those countries. :)














Rose wrote.

Keeping it simple....
 

B-6 one can get toxic effects from...just web up 'B-6-Toxicity'.
B-12 it's really really hard to get toxic effects from. Web it up...should be hard to find. That there are different forms of B-12, as all say, is what you can get is part of the issue. Most B-12 overdoses are like trying to OD on Vitamin C...it just passes thru you.
But, making sure what all B-12 that's swimming around in your blood and actually being asorbed and used...well that is a different issue. Blood tests really don't tell docs what's BEING USED, just what's out there in your blood to BE used. Big difference. Only way to be sure are thru biopsies and since we are 'susceptable' to begin with...this isn't a way to go. Not worth it, and the tests to date are filled with room for error.
SOO, If asorbtion is an issue [as is possibly my own case] taking the Methyl...and well, doing what atheletes do to hydrate before running races [overload or 'pack' the stuff] increases your chances of 'taking up' what you need. Since taking too much usually is very hard to hurt you, it should be worth trying for, say about 3-6 months? and see if anything [maybe slowly] makes a difference?
B-6 on the other hand can cause problems....I know it's confusing, I've been working on it for the 3 years I've been on this and other boards and I'm still confused.
It's the get too much info and the brain circuits fry - syndrome! Don't know how else to put it.
YOu are on the right track, learning asking questions - but it's YOU who has to decide what is good for YOU! No one else can do that! :hug: :hug: 's - j

Brian, I have bought Methyl B12 from Mr Vitamins in Chatswood. http://www.mrvitamins.com.au. It is classified as 'Practitioner only' and is kept behind a counter. Manufacturer is Thorne (USA) and it is only available in 1000 microgram capsules. It is quite expensive. No idea of the quality.

I ordered methyl B12 from Iherb about a year ago but never received the goods - I assume they were confiscated by Aus customs. I am interested to hear more about people who have successfully purchased from Iherb as methyl B12 is much cheaper (per microgram) from them even with the delivery costs.
Martin

Hi Brian, I had to go back to the beginning of this thread when I saw the most recent post this morning.

Wow, you were paying $70 a bottle for Methylcobalamin? How big was the bottle... ???? :)

I just checked the coutries page on my web site and saw that it is shipped from Vitacost to Australia. Vitacost is a discount vitamins company. I order from them all the time.

But in terms of shots, I have to agree with you, the shots work really well and are vastly cheaper.

The main reason I don't talk more about getting the shots is that you have to have a doctor's prescription, and some doctors just do not get it. (and therefore withhold prescriptions for B12)

It was by luck that I went to a holistic M.D. just before I got tetanus and she gave me a prescription for a shot a day for a year. :)

A shot a day for a month is about $6 from Wal*Mart here, so it's CHEAP. I can afford it. I love it.

But if someone wants to know if it will help them, they can buy a bottle of the Methylcobalamin lozenges that will last a couple months, I get the 5mg ones for when I just cannot stand another shot... because of the needle... and a bottle of those is around $16. (I also send them to old friends... people who I don't think would find out about it in normal daily life... but who might have a heart health need for it.)

:)

Everyone cannot get methylcobalamin.

As I have said before, Karen's experience is unusual. And if anyone has a choice between cyanocobalamin and methylcobalamin, I think they would be foolish not to choose methylcobalamin.

However, most people can use cyanocobalamin. And, if Karen had a response to the cyanocobalamin, as she posted, it was getting through and doing her good. The test results are not reliable, and they can fail to move up for quite a while, until stores begin to be filled. She may have been far more deficient than the initial test result showed.

There is no way to know whether those of us who switched to methylcobalamin have had better repairs because of that than if we had continued with cyanocobalamin.

Scientific evidence useful to most people is not derived from the very few exceptions.

As I said before, methylcobalamin covers some less likely possibilities. Cyanocobalamin can do the job for most, if they get enough often enough. Better would be hydoxocobalamin, and best methylcobalamin.

rose

Thorne should be very good quality, but oh that price!

rose

B12 that is in the blood has been absorbed, but there is no guarantee that it will be stored or used.

In almost all cases though, as the B12 result increases with treatment, and eventually gets very strong (around 1000 or more) it becomes very clear that stores are being filled, or have been filled. It is very unusual for someone to fail to build stores and use B12 well when taking 1000 - 2000 mcg cyanocobalamin per day, and it is even more unusual when taking methylcobalamin. Very rare.

Methylcobalamin has been proven safe in extremely large quantities, even regular doses in people who cannot remove it normally because of kidney disease.

rose

The B12 research is interesting. If you read it you will see that in each study there are people who have more or less response to B12. In many studies the amount of response is correlated with the length of time the person has been deficient. I have a lot of research excerpts on my site. They are very interesting.

I had a positive response immediately from the B12 injections, but I was given few and had to beg for more once my B12 level went up a little bit.

B12 tests are mostly done on the B12 in blood... so replacement therapy affects that quite a lot.

The methylmalonic acid tests are apparently quite different in results if they are done on spinal fluid... which indicates a much "deeper" kind of depletion...

For me, when I took a lot of cyanocobalamin in tablet form, it made NO difference to my test results. I was having regular B12 tests at the time, so I was able to see that.

It is really REALLY important to take notes when you take B12 so that you can go back and see what it did for you... else you may be "thinking" it did or didn't do something, and your memory may not be entirely accurate. I'm saying that because my memory was affected by my low levels of B12, so I'm really glad my neurologist said to keep a Time Line.

:)






















Rose wrote-

Because test results for vitamin B12 are judged in this country against a very low low for normal, I distrust the ranges which are applied to people.

For instance, as is reported in an article on my site, in Japan and some other countries the low for B12 is 550 because at that level they have been able to identify changes in cognition... not for the better.

So when the low here in the U.S. is 180 or 200, well, obviously that's a lot lower, so what kinds of things is the person experiencing, besides impaired cognition, for some 350 points before anything was said to be wrong...

I find it upsetting that the low in this country is so low.

I tried to get my doctors to give out the article on my site, but mostly they wanted to prescribe antidepressants as their preference. :(

I know for a fact, from having had consistent regular tests and keeping notes that when my B12 level falls below 900, I experience depression.

So a level of 1000 for me would be only minimally above the depression level.

Unless you keep notes, you will not know what is true for you.

One person may need very little B12 to improve and rebuild stores, but another person may need a lot more because perhaps their stores were depleted to a lower level, or maybe they deal with a lot of ongoing stress... there are all sorts of factors.

The only thing that is true for everyone, is that if they have symptoms of low B12 and they get B12 in a form their body can use, they will improve.

FACT.

:)






























Rose wrote-

B6
 

I have these references on the dosage and safety of B6. There is probably no reason to take more than 50-100mg a day unless treating a condition that warrants it (and there are some).

Vitamin B6 - Pyridoxine; Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate
Alternative Medicine Review, Feb, 2001

Safety, Toxicity, and Side Effects


"The use of supplemental P5P has not been associated with toxicity, although the inactive form, pyridoxine, has been associated with reports of peripheral neuropathy.[45] One hypothesis is that pyridoxine toxicity is caused by exceeding the liver's ability to phosphorylate pyridoxine to P5P, yielding high serum levels of pyridoxine which may be directly neurotoxic or may compete with P5P for binding sites, resulting in a relative deficiency.[46]
Mpofu et al reported electrophysiological and neurological examination of 17 homocystinuric patients who had been treated with 200-500 mg pyridoxine HC1 daily for 10-24 years, and found no evidence of neuropathy.[47] Most reported cases of neuropathy associated with pyridoxine supplementation have involved intake of at least 500mg/day for two years or more.[48] While there is no doubt that vitamin B6 can be neurotoxic in gross excess, there is considerable controversy over the way in which toxicological data have been translated into advised limits.[8] "

b12 for depression
 

I have been diagnosed with mild depression and have been prescribed a low dosage of Prozac. The type of depression I have is not feeling sad or unhappy, its more being sluggish, tired, irritable, lack of motivation, etc. I have read on the internet that sometimes B12 can be helpful for depression. Should I consider taking a B12 supplement. If so, I have no idea what kind to take? I've noticed there are some that also have b6 and folic acid. Does that make easier to absorb, etc? Just looking for some help and advice.

Thanks for your help.

I have answered you on the other thread. ;)

Time has No Meaning on the Net - B12 Inquiry
 

Just wanted to thank Rose for her time to put in a website with info and that answered questions as well as putting in additional websites' addresses with even more info. I know the last question that I saw that Rose answered was in 2007 with her website listed below but time doesn't matter, I found it today, and it confirmed what I started to believe about B12. I've been where you are, Rose, with Burning Mouth Syndrome, getting information out just because and I know it takes time so I just wanted to say thank you. Me, I've got a brain tumor, had radiation and have been having some weird symptoms no one can figure out where they came from. I've a sneaky idea B12 has something to do with it.

Aloha nui loa
angie4074