Questions
 

For you learned folk.....do any of you find yourself walking kinda side to side, it's as if I've widened my stride in order to compensate for some balance.??

Billye

That walking funny 'thing'
 

is why I advocate PT...so we can re-learn how to walk right.
When our sense of where we are in 'time and space' is altered, well our body usually compensates. Given long term issues and complications we over-compensate. Thus do the quirky walk stuffs. What nerves we have left are trying to re-connect to other active nerves to DO whatever Job they are meant to do.. Thus the more we exercise [but correctly,] the better we can USE what we have left to the best and proper advantage.
Essentially 're-program' ourselves to do that which is 'proper' and not 'pseudo-defenisve'.
The whole TILT issue? Yep I do it, am guilty. But I know it and work on it.
Worse issue is how to keep diligent after PT ends. You usually do so well after PT's over that you tend NOT to do more exercises...Wherein lies a major potential snag. You forget the disciplines, get lazy and boom! New fall= injury. Whole cycle begins all over again.
The DUCK walk I call it...sort of a waddle, shifting from foot to foot more sideways than forwards. All's I can say is KEEP moving!? Moving constantly keeps it from becoming more static.
Walk on? - j

Walking...
 

I was just going to say I walk like a duck - but Dahlek beat me to it... but defintely yes... I find the more tired I am, the worse the PN, etc... the wider my stride and also I point my feet out - definately to try to keep balance and stay upright... better then taking a header!:rolleyes:

Well, yes
 

You both just described the issue. I am tilting terribly. But I do start physical therapy on Monday for these issues and the fracture problems. I know I can expect more pain and more tiredness. I just seem to get so very tired now. Catch myself falling asleep sitting up. But some changes may be in the wind. I'm to see an endocrinologist in a couple of weeks. Maybe he can help with some of this.

Thanks for verifying what I already knew. duck waddle walk. yep, that's me. :cool:

Billye

Well, Your life is not going to be ...
 

EXACTLY STATIC?
IN PT....be up front about what your 'tired' zones are...I have found switching off, from one exercise to another as some make me MORE tired than others is a good way to deal with it... My best phrase has been 'I got here, I'm doing THIS, after THIS, I'm gonna have to ask myself if I can GET BACK!' I've found doing the 'little bits' of this 'n that' exercises, has been the best to give me the variations and ranges of things that could/should be done. Without wearing us beyong that comfy point. IF you can tough it out and to the 'rounds' they want you to do in tens and twenties, but only in fives repeated four times w/o the crash fatigue...well, that's the way to GO?
I did the short and repeat time last PT round and found I was doing better than the LONGER round of similar PT the year before...
ONly thing better to correct the 'waddle' is a FULL-LENGTH MIRROR positioned at the key part of your house to totally reveal all faults! I'm not THERE YET?
I am Progressive, I am not THAT up to self-revelations? -
Waddle on? - j

You know, I never talked with anyone about this before...

do you mean you try to stay sort of one top of your feet? I try to keep them under me so that when my knees go, I'm on top of my feet.

I bet that's not what you mean... cuz you talked about lengthening stride.

When this happens for me, my steps get very small, and then my back gets tight and that increases back pain...

A wide gait is typical for balance problems. As my neuropathy goes through its ups and downs, my gait changes with it. I definitely have a wide gait at times. And often, I almost fall to the left, with my right foot stepping to left, rather than straight ahead, and losing my balance.

Just last week this happened in public, and I had to sort of explain that, really, "I'm okay, I just have a balance issue." I don't think if the guy thought I was drunk or ill, but I had to say something.

There's nothing wrong with the width of the gait, per se, it's rather a good way of compensating when our sensors are off.

Oh. I'm still not sure I can visualize how it looks.

I get this slipping feeling a lot, or used to. I used to get it so often I couldn't go anywhere I didn't have a cart to hold on to.

If I wasn't holding on to a cart, my arms would flail up to help me catch my balance... only I wasn't falling, I only felt as if my foot hadn't hit the floor, so I looked totally ridiculous.

Once it happened when I was on stairs, and I did fall, but I grabbed the rail, so I didn't fall down the stairs, just into the rail. but it leaves such a sickening feeling.

Thank you so much for explaining. I really appreciate it.

Yes
 

First i started seeng it in my mom her brother would say Jonnie how
long have you been walking like a Duck. She would tell him to hush
and he did,her sisters would speak up as well. Well when i was siting
at work ,which was almost never..I stare at strange people's feet,and
there it was the duck walk...I would go home call her and say Mom
i saw more people walking like a duck. Welling did you ask any of those
smart Dr.s why some people like your mother walk that way. I didn't
so she did,he said why Jonnie you protecting yourself from falling or
believe me you will if you don't just keep doing it or you will fall. Hasn't
any Dr. told you ,YOU have PN,he gave her a tiny book and told her to
read it. But belive me that Duck walk is going to help you with your
balance. Before she died she said Sue that's odd you walk like a Duck...
And i do my son who Does PT would tell you you have a Duck walk. When
i asked him why when sitting in a chair why my ankles fall and they won't
straighten up,he smiles and said it's a duck sitting down... Really i love
him...sometimes.. Sue

Boy, you sure explained that really well. I feel as if I know your family a little bit now.

Thank you for taking the time to put all of that into writing.

(((((((Shiney Sue))))))))

I think my stride is wider than before and my feet feel unsure of themselves. I guess it is a balance problem. The doctor has me stand and close my eyes and I can feel myself swaying somewhat...
Cathie

That's good info from Liza Jane. The wider your base of support, the more stable you are, so it can be good to walk with wide legs if your balance is bad, like she said. Also, when you turn your feet out, it makes your knees more stable, so this helps people who have some weakness or even sensory loss in their knees. You can "pretty up" your gait if you use a walker, because then the walker provides you with the extra stability. But most people don't want to fool with one unless they have to.

Thanks folks
 

This helped me understand what is going on. Today I start Physical Therapy for strengthening exercises and hopefully a little electric stim to ease some of the pain. I'll be working on balance and core body strength. All painful areas for me, but I'm ready. I've had to be patient and wait for weeks now. They wanted me to get to 12 weeks in healing from the sacrum fractures before they started the pt. Now if we can just do this without cracking anything again. Wish me luck.

Billye

Since now I have issues in both legs I am really focusing on proper walking. I used to put the pressure on the good leg and that put too much stress. Even at the clinic for people with back or other issues we try to protect the bad part to not only create other issues. I have been really self talking even walking. I try to say to myself that though it hurts now trying to walk properly not doing it that way makes other issues happen.
Silverlady good luck. When I was at pt at the clinic I didn't realise how many things I did in a wrong way. Even how I picked up things. It takes practice.

I don't know how much of my secondary problem is due to core instability, but I know that a good deal of it is. Many of my core muscles just wouldn't work as a result of the damage, and since I didn't have physical therapy much secondary imbalance of mucles and additional instability eventually developed.

I just found a wonderful book. Even if a person can't do a lot of what it suggests, just knowing more about the body works helps work around things that can't be improved (without causing unnecessary extra damage), improve what can be improved, and recognize bad habits, damaging coping mechanisms, and myths that are damaging (for instance, stretching before warming up :eek: ).

Framework, by Nicholas A. DiNubile.

Good read too.

rose

Just the name of that book sounds good! Another great type of exercise for core stabilizers are the ball exercises -- the ones that use a great big ball that you sit on. Only, make sure you are stable enough not to fall off the ball! Or have someone spot you. There are video tapes of them, but you have to scale the exercises down to your level. Rose, as you describe you situation and stage of recovery, you sound like such an excellent candidate for physical therapy! Is that not available to you, or is that something that you do not want to do? I hope the question is not too personal.

Day 1 of PT
 

They bent me in every possible angle, poked and prodded, made me hold muscle positions and grunt while they measured the muscle strength. Then the young fellow complimented me on my medical knowledge and told me I should have been a nurse/doctor, etc. Asked me how I knew so much. I told him 4 years of intensive reseach, reading, reading and more reading looking for what was causing me so much pain. And then educating my doctors once I figured it out. He asked me, "Did the doctors take your word for what you had figured out?" I told him that they were still sceptical until I went to Mayo Clinic and they agreed with me.

They have decided to put me in their water therapy. This is a one-on-one therapy working in the water with weights and exercises. It will put less stress on my joints. The pool is heated. Pure bliss.:p I've got 4 weeks 3 x a week of this to do and then it will probably be extended. After the pool we will work on balance and strength exercises and hopefully I'll be able to climb up and down the little set of stairs they have too. I'd so like to be able to see my upstairs studio again. We've moved all my supplies and tools downstairs behind my chair in the breakfast room. Maybe I'll be able to work upstairs again soon.

This morning I was so sore and I haven't even started the exercises yet! The therapist described my walk to me. He told me I'm walking like Liza Jane described. I walk like a duck and list to the left side even throwing in an extra step on the left side ever now and then to compensate for the balance issues. I want to change this. So if you don't hear from me much, I'm really busy. I will check in and read, but may not have much time to post.

Billye

Good luck. I'm sorry your sore but I try to remind myself in the long run it will hopefully help. The pool therapy I'm looking back into too and really I did hear how it helps with balance and pain. The key is the heat for me in the pool cause if too cold its not a pleasure. My gramps has been doing pool therapy for his balance and has seen such results. Like I said I'm changing my walk to more proper and it takes such constant self talk and feels awkward. Well good luck and I hope you see your upstairs soon. Its a great goal!

Silverlady
 

Will be sending lots of good thoughts your way - I certainly hope the therapy can help - but I'm sure will be understandably exhausting... take it easy as you can in between therapy sessions and be sure to let us know how you are doing:)

Silverlady --

This thread has been sooooo useful to me.

I thought I walked that way because I'm fat. (I am fat, though I've lost ten inches around my waist since I've been very careful not to overdo or hurt myself so I can keep walking around my garden. Less than 5 minutes a day is what's made the difference... so I really take issue with Oprah when she says we have to exercise for an hour a day... was that what she said? half an hour a day? I don't remember, except that it was way beyond what I could do.

Also, I'm so grateful to all those who described how they walk -- it took me soooo long to "get" that a "wide" step was not a very long one. I take such small steps that I was thinking they aren't "wide."

But now I realize that I keep my feet much further apart than I used to.

It just bums me out to no end that there's so much stress.

I get sooooo much better, then stress hits and I lose so much of the ground that I've gained.

Well, thank you again for a Wonderfully helpful thread!!!!!!

Dakota,

The so-called insurance I had (which I paid for myself as a part-time college instructor and self-employed person), whose doctors were responsible for my damage, did nothing to help me beyond the neurologist who finally diagnosed me giving me the most basic treatment.

Thus: disabled, no income, no physical therapy. Lived on borrowed money for a very long time. I would have loved to have good therapy, and now I am learning just how important it would have been.

Things still are changing, so there's still hope for those last big problems. I am now getting some minimal help, and hope to get more soon.

Thank you for asking. :)

rose

Considerthis I often hear you talk about stress which we all relate to but some it takes a stronger effect on. Have you worked on "coping" mechanisms? I really think biofeedback is so great for anxiety and I'm sure could help with stress too. I think finding healthy ways to cope then for it to build up is so important.

Yes, I hear you.

I'm beginning to wish I'd had more exposure to Buddhism growing up. :)

One thing I did that has helped a lot was buy a massage chair. I got an iJoy on sale at Sharper Image.

It has been great (except for when it was in the room next to one of my phenomenal leaks).

See, up until recently the most minimal exertion or stress would cause my muscles to contract, thus bending me over. It's from the tetanus nerve damage. I look like a survivor of BAD osteoporosis.

But with the massage chair, it relaxes the muscles.

I know it's dumb that I can't relax them myself, all on my own. But I can't.

There is just soooo much stress, relating to my condo and the privy pit and the hydrogen sulfide... and then the foreclosures and the state court refusing to accommodate my disability AT ALL.

It's just so frustrating.

For almost two years I was living on $11 a week, (additionally I paid my web hosting, I did that first because to me it is SO important that people understand about B12 and how it can protect them from the kind of nerve damage I have.)

When there's on going poverty, I don't think there's an easy way to do biofeedback... especially if there's any cost involved.

But, if someone has the money, if indeed I'm right about there being a cost involved, then I bet it's great.

As an aside, my massage chair was around $300. Which has been money Well Spent.

I got it after I sold my rental... Whew. I was soooo lucky I was able to protect it from the state court long enough to sell it. The state court very much wanted to take it away from me... and I think the state court is angry that I won over them using federal law, and that is a part of the reason they foreclosed and sold my condo behind my back...

See, it's just sooo stressful.

And then there can be other elements of stress as well.

Thank you for thinking about me, I really appreciate it.

((((((((((daniella))))))))))))

Have fun at PT, Billye--
 

--and enjoy the water; it's fun to be semi-weightless, considering how ground-bound so many of us are the rest of the time.

And Rose, what you related sucks. As does what so many others have related. More grist for my single-payer health insurance not tied to employment status rants.

Thanks, Glenn.

Yes, and for cutting the so-called insurance companies out altogether. They've had their chance, and politicians in bed with them have enabled them to take all rights away from "members" who pay for their own insurance.

Imagine all the good that could be done with the money being thrown at insurance companies.

But some mechanism also should be in place as an incentive for people to be responsible consumers. I think it is unfortunately necessary in this society of quick, easy fixes and wanting to have it all regardless of how it affects others.

rose

Billye, that sounds like Bliss. I had my 2nd session of a new physical therapy today. This was ordered by my colon guy (nice to have a guy for each organ, huh?). It's from a group that does only pelvic PT with women. Most of the women have some sort of pelvic pain. Or stress incontnence.

But this therapist is great. She said she thought my butt pain, what remained of it, was from my SI joing and restrictions around it, and in two sessions she's helped. Today she had me sitting and pressing against her while she dug her fingers or elbows into the sciatic area of the buttock, or along the spine. I can move more.

The general new thing I've been learning is that it's not good to stretch muscles in spasm, or try to strengthen them. First, they are all saying, get the restrictipons and spasm out with myofascial release, muscle energy work, trigger point acupuncture, or deep muscle massage. Then strengthen. It's helping.

Oxford gives me a general 5 sessions of this.

Whoopy-do.

Gosh I can relate to crappy insurance issues. I'm sorry though for everyone too. I guess I have become numb to them sort of and know mine will barely cover anything. When I was IP for anorexia it costed 1500 a day and my insurance would not cover. They don't care its just about getting stable but in the long run creates more issues when people go in and out cause they don't get complete care.
Considerthis, I'm so sorry and I can see where you do have a lot of stress along with others. I wish I could help more. Do any of you have family that could help? I know its hard to ask sometimes but that is what family is for and I'm sure you would for them.

Good luck with PT, silverlady, and let us know how it is going when you have time. The pool sounds wonderful. I really need to go to our local pool. I'm sue we all do.

Oh Billye, In a way I am jealous?
 

As I'd tried water exercises [ and I was the youngest there by about 15 years?] Honestly, it was shortly after my onset and I was weak, very weak...Things came to rule it out...first. I'd started in early fall...it got cold early..I was WARM=OK in the facility, but in the 10 minutes from the pool to home, well my feet and hands truly turned BLUE PLUS! I'd spend the rest of the day exhausted from the water [that 'resistance' thing] and just sleep under an electric blankie on HI till I couldn't stand it anymore. Since my own sweating/regulation systems are compromised other than taking in more water...what could I do? It was [sort of like Dan] stubbing my ingrown big toe to the point of emergency treatment by my podiatrist.. that made me stop the water thing, tho It's a WORKOUT...without exception. I'd really jammed the nail into to toe and the podiatrist refuses to cut it out, as 'complications mite occur'.. I can't blame him for caution. Especially as he was the one who'd convinced me to get second opinions and more.

Most of what you're probably doing is a sort of accellerated 'Pilates' or 'lo-impact' bunch of stretching and strenthening set of exercises... They usually start you out to what I call BEYOND THE LIMIT and it's up to you to be a bit assertive here and SAY: YEP!!!! BEyond the limit? When you've been far less mobile and flexible than BEFORE you got hurt, you really can't expect to DO as before...realistically? The key is to go slow, if you get shaky or wobbly on one excercise, switch off to another for a 'different' part of you.. Probably the whole body at this point 'needs work'? Speak up when, doing reps on any one thing...you feel the 'deadness or wobblies' start to come on..not after. You can always do something different and come back. Till you meet the numbers or the 'minutes' of PT... I promise to post anew, under a new thread the series or various sites for exercies that I have found which are useful.. Each aspect tho is body-site specific...it's up to you and the PT to determine what-which-alls work best for YOU and what YOU need.
With PT, sometimes IF you REALLY hurt in some key places, it is to your benefit in the long run to COMPLAIN. Modifications in the 'program' can and will be made to do the best works with the least pain..Good therapists can spot trouble areas just by 'putting their hands' on you...They are folks to treasure...Cultivate and keep a relationship with these people even after you are 'done' with your course of therapy...

I sure wish I was with you...each of us going: YOU WIMP! But, IT HURTS!...etc..how about FIVE more? etc.. I won't make the BET tho...I believe that you will walk far less like a duck after 10 sessions! I know I did? I relapsed only because of fractured foot and ankle issues last year and had to start over.
It's hard work, but it's stuff that CAN and will be done...Improvement is inevitable! Show us it is? Hugs in the interim! :hug: :hug: 's- j