B vitamins and heart palpitaions?
 

I know that if you experience heart palpitaions B vitamins (i think b6) is suppose to help. I seem to have the opposite happen to me. I maybe wrong, but it seems every time I take B I get heart palpitaions. It's like a flip or a kind of flutter in my chest but it also takes my breath away and makes me cough. I have had it checked out by a doctor. He did an EEG witch did show an irregular rythem. He then had me where a 24 hour haulter and did a echo of my heart. Both came back normal. Once I stopped the B it went away. Has anyone else had this happen to them?

Hi cat

i havent had palpitations but I cannot take any form of B complex solid vitamins and even have to be careful on some of the single Bs too. It makes me feel just yuck

I get my supplemental Bs from Royal Jelly and one of those sublingual liquid B drops

dont know if that applies to what you are experiencing from the Bs tho

I haven't studied B1, but I wonder whether since too little of it can cause wet berri berri (resulting in heart failure) or dry berri berri (resulting in nerve problems, which can also affect heart function) whether you might not be experiencing the beginnings of a positive adjustment when you get what you may need badly.

rose

I have copies of blood work from all the way back to 1990. The first time I had a b12 level checked was in 2005 it was 239 folate 10.8 (I never checked it until now because I was told it was normal. I had it checked in June 2007, (I was at the endo. complaining of memory loss, extream fatigue, getting dizzy when I stand up, and hair loss) He checked b12 and it was 209, folate 13.0. My GP checked it again in July ( I think just to make me leave him alone) and it was 293, folate 24.0, mma 109, homocysteine (nutritional) 5.6 and I.F. Block AB negative. He did not have me fast for these tests. One other thing, since 1990 until now my MVC has never been under 93 Highest being 99, my TIBC has always been around 490 and my transferren sat. any where from 11% to 25%. I think have been boarder line anemic most of my life. My mother jus told my when I was 3 yr.old she took me to the doctor because she kept finding me in bed and normally I was a very active toddler. She just remembers them saying "well she does not have luckemia". Iam 42 years old now, Irish, Dark hair (well used to be I had to start coloring it at the age of 27, now Iam mostly gary) blue eyes that keep getting turing grayer and grayer. Iam a mess. Sorry, but right at this moment I just feel like crying!! Iam going to see a hemotologist on Thursday. After that blood test Iam going to start taking methyl b12 under the tongue. I just cant take this anymore.
Thanks for everyones insite and for listening .

Cat

Cat,

I'm glad you will be taking methylcobalamin. You may need B12, and even if not, you may benefit from the extra methylcobalamin.

You could have an MCV like that and be low in iron and B12.

Abnormal heart function can be a result of deficiency of some of the B vitamins. A really good B complex (with the p-5-p B6 instead of pyridoxine), and the methylcobalamin at a different time of day is what I would do. Besides of course a good diet and possibly other carefully chosen supplements. If you do not eat fatty fish regularly, I would also take a good fish oil with extra DHA and EPA. I would also take a good digestive enzyme supplement with meals.

You sound like a very good candidate for autoimmune problems. B12 may be part of the solution, possibly even the solution, but I'm guessing more likely part. http://thyroid.about.com/mbiopage.htm

I hope you can get to the bottom of this and feel much better! I can relate, as my serious problems began in my 40s, and two of my kids were entering a life-threatening state in their 30s.

Had you taken any B vitamins before the later tests (even in a multi vitamin)? If so, what, what dose, and for how long?


Best wishes,

rose

Hi Rose, Thank you so much for answering me.
I have been on 50mcg of synthroid for about 3 years now. Doc said my levels are fine. For about 3-4 months I have been taking R-Lipoic Acid 100mg 2 X a day (it also has 150mcg of biotin in it I did not realize that) and Magnesium Taurate 125mg 2 X a day. For about 1 month before the last test I started taking a multi by Pure Esssence "One n Only" it contains:
B1 22.5mg
B2 25.5mg
B3 25mg
B5 30mg
B6 30mg
Folate 400mch
B12 (methylcobolamin) 100mcg
I also took a separte 1mg Biotin, I was told it would help my hair grow back.
I don't like Fish but I do eat plenty of eggs, cheese, chicken,a little beef and veggies. Do you think those vitamins could have given false results? My mother also has hypothyroid but I do not know of any anemia in my family. However, my dad, my sister and my brother have similar symptms as me. Mostly my dad may siblings are not as bad.

Aha!

It looks like you cannot absorb B12 from food, but can absorb from supplements. That is malabsorption, but not severe malabsorption. Malabsorption from food is probably the most common cause of deficiency (except in people who have been vegans for years and do not supplement). You probably could eat a steak at every meal and get NO B12.

If you malabsorb, but not severely, you would be getting lots of B12 from that 100 mcg dose. In fact, you would be getting more than a person who malabsorbs severely gets from a 1000 mcg dose.

If that is the case, that is probably why both your MMA and Hcy were normal. If one of those was high before your month of treatment, it is likely that your B12 was actually a lot lower than that first test result showed, and it has been coming up. It would be good to get it coming up faster.

It looks even more like you have an autoimmune problem. You and your family would be even more likely than many to have an autoimmune problem, since you originate in the part of the world you do, and since you have similar problems.

Also, it is likely that you and your family would benefit from lots of B12 and some enzymes. And it would be a very good idea if you all took at least 1000 mcg per day B12, because it is very possible that at least some of you will progress to severe B12 malabsorption, and if you do you will get nothing to nearly nothing out of the 100 mcg.

It is not necessary to show any sign of anemia when a B12 deficiency problem (and even iron problem) is present. That is why so many of us are not diagnosed as we should be.

rose

Regarding the fish, I do hope you all will take fish oil. It comes in capsules and you take it with a meal. Your ancestors probably got plenty of Omega 3 oils, and if you probably don't.

rose

What kinds of autoimmune problems are indicitive to my symptoms? I do have a hypothyriod. When I firts went to the endo. he listened more to my symptoms rather then just going by my blood work. According to the reference range, technically, I was considerd normal. He had me try the lowest amount of synthryroid and after 2 weeks I had more energy. My hair stopped falling out and my eyebrows grew back (I didn't even realize how thin a sparse they were until they started to grow back).

Cat,

Good for that doc! That's a rare one. Congratulations on getting help with your hypothyroid.

Your heritage, your grey hair, your likely B12 malabsorption, your family history...these all together strongly suggest an autoimmune problem. I'm willing to bet there are other more subtle signs in you and your family too, not sure, but a very good bet.

Everyone is different, but my thyroid began having difficulty as my B12 deficiency progressed. Eventually, as my B12 was brought up and kept up good and strong, my thyroid recovered. Sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn't.

Of course the thyroid problem and B12 problem do not always occur together or one after the other. But it frequently does happen, and many of the symptoms overlap (I wonder whether some of those symptom overlaps are due to failure to diagnose an accompanying thyroid problem).

rose

Hi rose, Iam not sure I understand what you mean. I was diagnosed with hypothyroid about 3 years ago. He is a great doctor, but after being on synthroid for a year and 1/2, I was back in his office complaining of low energy and other things. But it seems once he diagnosed the hypo thing that was it. He would check my levels and they are all good. He says well not everything is about the thyroid maybe your stessed or..... I love this doctor, but not once did he ever mention b12 levels. When it comes the endo system hes one of the best. His name is on the list if you go online and look up info about doctors and the new ranges. Anyway Iam rambling now... THis happens way to often I was going to make a point here I completly forgot what is was. You mentioned an underlying thryroid problem, do you mean other then the aready existing hypo? What else is there? I thought you where eith hypo or hyper?

The doc is much better than even many endocrinologists. Even though B12 wasn't mentioned, it sounds like he is the type who would be willing to learn. Here is one good article: http://www.aafp.org/afp/20030301/979.html You might want to make a copy and give it to him. There's much more to the issue, but the article will provide him with a good background knowledge.

One possibility with thyroid is Hashimoto's, but I imagine that your doc would have caught and mentioned that. Do you have copies of all your records and lab results? A very good thing to do, to get them and keep your own set of records.

Please keep asking questions. Let me know if I'm still not clear.

rose

Hi Rose, I am going to call my doctor tomorrow and get copies of my blood work. Before I found this doctor another one ran a thyroid work up, here are the results (this is 2003 before I was on anything, syntrhoid)
TSH 1.05 mIU/L ref. range 0.32 - 5.00
T3 total 6.7 ng/mL 0.52 - 1.65
T4, free 0.86 ng/ml 0.71 - 1.85
Anti -TPO Ab <10.0 IU/ml 0.0 - 35.0
Anti - TG Ab <20 IU/ml 0.0 - 40.0
DHEAS 138.0 ug/dl 35.0 - 430.0

Here are my results from yet another dr. in 11/2006 while on 50mcg or synthroid.
TSH 1.17 ref. range 0.49 - 4.67
T4 7.3 4.5 - 12.0
T7 2.6 1.0 - 3.8
T uptake 35.7 25.2 - 37.5
Total T3 1.13 0.60 - 1.90

I have no idea what all this means.

Well just to add to my confusion........ I was looking up symptoms of hyper and hypothyroid, I equally if not more so have the symtpoms of hyperthyroid?
How can that be????????????????

Hi cat, just read your message and wanted to mention something else about your first post although it's something rather off the topic that's developed. I just wondered if you had normal liver function?

You mentioned only taking a very small dose of Niacin / B3 (25mg I think you said in a later post) but some people are extremely sensitive to Niacin. Because I get major flushing problems and feel really edgy with even small doses of regular Niacin, if I'm taking niacin I find it better to take a no flush niacin. I sometimes get this mixed up :eek: but I'm pretty sure it's nicotinamide or niacinamide that is the no flush niacin. In the usual B complex they tend to use nicotinic acid.

Anyway, sorry to go back to the beginning there, but it was just something I thought of when reading your first post.

take care,
Lara

Hi Lare, thanks for your input.
Once when I was in my 20 I remember taking a vitamin and about 10-20 minutes later my freind looks at me and says whats up with your face? I felt hot and a little anxious, she said it looked like I had a sunburn. The same thing happed to me right in the middle of delivering my 2nd daughter. (c-section) A nurse walked in (there were some complicaitons I think she was trying to make small talk) and said wow look at you! You have great coloring. I was very red. My husband was like, yeah except she is usually as white as that pillow. It also felt like all the blood was rushing to my head and it was difficult to hold a conversation. I know I did not have any niacin then, but it felt the same. As far as I know my liver is fine. It seemed like B vitamin was giving me palpitaions, although I am not sure. That was the only thing different from my daily routine. And once I stopped it went away. But now that you bring it up since I was taking that multi I did not have any palpitaions. I was not taking it for that long.

cat265 Well just to add to my confusion........ I was looking up symptoms of hyper and hypothyroid, I equally if not more so have the symtpoms of hyperthyroid?
How can that be????????????????

Sometimes people have symptoms of both hypo and hyper , that's what endo told my wife sometime back and she was given thyroxine after that.
Your TSH value of 1.17 is considered to be good(normal) , but symptoms vary from person to person. You can get more info here -
http://thyroid.about.com/library/links/blthyroid.htm

I have read in forums for some people when TSH starts hitting 2 their thyroid symptoms get worse.
But I have read in many places and according to our endo. TSH in the range that you have is good. Have you asked your doc about armor thyroid or changing your dose(doesn't look like it) ?

And yes I am not surprised your endo. did not mention about B12 .But to share with you,my wife is hypothyroid patient ..coupled with low B12 count and a very very low Iron count . So better do your Ferritin test also.

Medhelp - every docotr I go agrees with you, that my thyroid is normal right now. I just saw a hematologist yesterday. She ran blood work in her office, of course she was able to have the cbc results right away and she said everything looks ok and that I am not anemic. She wants me to come back in two weeks and if my b12 level is still low she is going to start me on shots and show me how to do them myself. She mentioned about doing the mma and the hcy (?) She also said her lab forgot to do a clotting factor and she seemed very interested in that and wants to run that test in two weeks. She asked me like 2 or 3 times about arthitis and if my joints hurt. She kept refering to her fingers, at the time I said no, I have no pain in my joints. I do have osteo. in my knees, a pain that comes and goes in my hip and lower and upper back pain. The back pain I think is from an accident. My knees have been grinding and poping for years, i never give them a thought anymore. The hip I have know idea, it comes and goes, sor I forgot to mention that. I was so happy to be going to see this doctor I thought finaly I would get some answers. But as I was leaving she looked right at me and said that a low b12 level should not be making me so exhuasted. I lost a little faith after that comment. How could a hematologist not know about b12? When I go back in two weeks I will get a copy of the blood test resluts. As long as she gives me the shots, Idon't care anymore. I wanted to start taking the sublingal but she told me not to. Which I find a little odd because in the begining of the visit she said the amount of b12 i would get in tablet for would do nothing for me.

That is outrageous. For someone who considers B12 deficiency (and knows about MMA and Hcy) and knows you have serious symptoms to delay is especially shameful.

You don't "wait a couple of weeks" and test again. You do the MMA and Hcy immediately. If I were you, I would insist that the blood be drawn for those two tests no later than Monday, and on the way out of the lab I would start my oral B12 in doses of no less than 1000 mcg (I would take 5000 mcg methylcobalamin). And I would keep up the B12 for a very long time, since it is safe but deficiency is terribly damaging and those two tests do not catch a percentage of cases.

If I couldn't get that, I would start the methylcobalamin today.

It is shameful, but many hemotologists do not know anything about B12 developments within the last 35 years. And it is apparent that that one knows less than most. To not know that a large dose in a swallowed or dissolved tablet will help means the doc is over 30 years behind. To think that B12 deficiency can't make a person exhausted makes the doc hopeless, in my opinion.

rose

Thank you Rose, I had to force myself to go food shopping this morning. I actually broke down in tears in the car because I was that exhausted from shopping. I am going to call the hematologist now and tell them that I cannot wait and Iam going to start taking the b12. I bought by Biochem superior b12 methlcobalamin 3,000 mcg it also has 50mg of C and 400mcg of folic acid in it. Should I start taking just one tablet? (actually they say sublingual lozenges).

Me again. I just got off the phone with their office. (Dr. was not in) I spoke with a nurse there. They did the mma and the hcy yesterday?? My appointment in two weeks is just to discusse the results of the blood work and do a clotting factor!!! I said if its ok then (trying to be polite) Iam going start taking a sublingal form of b12. She said fine but if Iam that low they will not do anything for me. Iam not a cry baby , I know I sound like one but I swear I have a very high thresh hold for pain, but being this tired has me crying alot. THis is sooooooooo not like me I feel like a different person. I will take the b12 now and hopfully be on my way back to the old me.

Thank you all (especially you Rose) for your knowledge and support, Really, what would have happend had I not found this site?

You are not a crybaby. This is serious ^$#@ and none of us should be put through this. Thank goodness someone knew enough to even suspect B12 deficiency and test for it, much less the MMA and Hcy (which most don't even know about).

I sure would begin taking one or two of those per day. Maybe they will learn something as a result of dealing with you.

I hope it helps you a great deal. Make sure you remember that many people do not show a response immediately, even when their bodies are gratefully getting to work with the tools they've been lacking.

Best wishes to you,

rose

Just to clarify this whole b12 defiency thing, once I have had enough injections to build up my stores do I need one every few months for the rest of my life or is that just when someone has PA? I am assuming that I do not have PA beacuse my first mma and hcy came back normal and the IF was negative. I guess why Iam deficent or low is still up in the air.

When B12 deficiency exists, unless something that can be remedied (such as an overgrowth of bacteria, parasites, etc.) was found to have caused it, and that cause is removed, it is assumed that B12 deficiency will occur again due to malabsorption.

The MMA and Hcy tests were done yesterday and you have results already? I'm confused. If no B12 has been taken, usually one of those is elevated when deficiency exists, but not always. And those two tests do not determine whether or not PA exists.

Even if the parietal cell test had been done along with the one for IF antibodies, and if both had come back normal, lessening production of IF (which can eventually disappear----true pernicious anemia) would not have been ruled out.

Usually doctors don't bother to look for a cause. That is too bad, because if the cause is not gastric atrophy and/or loss of intrinsic factor, it may be important to know.

Bottom line: never take your B12 stores for granted. Always keep them up. Oral doses of at least 1000 mcg should do it. It is extremely rare for shots to be necessary.

I'm tired, so let me know if this is not clear or did not answer completely.

rose

I did not ge the results from the blood work that the hematologist yet. Back when this all started (read post #4, its a little confusing) originally, in June 07, I went to an endo. complaining of fatigue, hair loss and memory loss. I thought it was my thryroid acting up. He was the one who checked my b12 level. It was 209 and the folate was 13. TIBC 340 Iron 62 and iron sat. 18%. Thats when I started investigating b12 deficiency. My regular G.P. did not know what to make of all this but since I had seen a gastroenterologist back when I was in my 20's He thought I should go see him again to straighten this all out. In July 07 I went to see a gastroenterologist, he ran more blood work. ( take into mind that one month ago the endo told me to take a good b complex. Before this test was done I was taking alot of suppliments)
B12 - 293
Folate - 24
mma - 109
hcy - 24
I.F. negative (I did not fast for any of this bloodwork)
He thought my b12 was normal maybe slightly low, but considering my complaints he thought I should have my regular G.P. do the blood work again in a month. I just decided that my best bet would be to see a hemotologist. When I went over old blood work (all the way back to 1990, I worked for a pharmaceutical so I was required to have a full exam every year) I saw a pattern in the cbc work up. This may be to much info. and going back way to far. I just assumed from the blood work (above) done in july of 07 that I did not have PA. I will get the blood work form that was done on 9/16/07 in about a week or so.

Dose this make any sense now?

Aha! I thought I remembered something like that.

It is crucial that you remember that the MMA and Hcy, and the increased folate and B12 were measured AFTER you had been taking the B complex for a month. Your MMA may have been much higher before the month of B complex.

If you did not malabsorb severely, but only malabsorbed from food, the B complex would give you plenty of B12 to bring your level up.

What is the normal range on your homocysteine test result? That number is quite high using the units of measure I am familiar with.

Malabsorption from food has not been ruled out. Pernicious anemia (lack of intrinsic factor) was apparently not present when these tests were done because you showed benefits from the B complex (someone with PA would not benefit from the usual B complex-----they would need at the very least hundreds of mcg to show any benefit).

Pernicious anemia could still result, so you should be taking enough B12 to still get through if that happens. At least 1000 mcg doses orally.

Regarding fasting: I think it is a good idea to treat every blood test as a fasting blood test.

I hope you keep up that B12 in large doses.

rose

[QUOTE=rose;138423]Aha! I thought I remembered something like that.


What is the normal range on your homocysteine test result? That number is quite high using the units of measure I am familiar with.

HI ROSE<
(here's another example of how ignorant a doctor and his staff can be)

First of all I made a mistake: the Folate serum # was >24 the homocysteine (nutritional) was 5.6

When I received the fax of the results from the doc's office I could not read any of the ref. ranges . I called there office back and asked them to re-fax it. THey said there copy was just as bad, it did not matter anyway because nothing was out of range so I did not need to know the ranges. I said, as a matter of fact the MCH was highlighted as out of range at 33.4, therefore I would like to know what all the ranges are can you please get me a better copy from the lab. She got an attitude, thought that I should just trust them but said she would get a copy but it would take a long time.

Today I felt real bad I took one of the b12 lozenges and then a couple of hours later I took 2 more. I got really bad heartburn. Is that because I took to much? Iam here alone with my kids and they are board to death (i can't seem to get out of bed) I thought it would give me more energy, Iam feeling rather guilty making them watch t.v while I lay down.

No telling what homocysteine was before all that B complex (good!), but it's good now. May have been higher before, but may not have been. It is common for it not to be high when B12 deficiency is present.

Folate. Good.

It is not likely that the methylcobalamin dose had anything to do with that. If it did, you're body is working on something, maybe the impulses to muscles affecting the sphincter. I have not heard that before, but that doesn't mean it can't happen. My diaphragm was affected, eventually affecting my speach and ability to sing on key. Took a long time to recover. If you're body is working on the sphincter so soon, good. Otherwise, it's probably just a coincidence.

One of my major pet peeves has become the ease with which sooo many doctors lie to their patients about lab results. Even the jerks who allowed this to happen to me didn't do that! But now I am seeing what appears to be an epidemic of it. My most direct experience is that of my aunt, for whom I take responsibility in some areas, including obtaining and managing so-called health care. I had her switch doctors when the one she was with said everything was fine (even put it in writing!!) when cholesterol, triglicerides and a couple of other things she could have worked on. That's when I took over and had her change "doctors." The next one said to us and an independent party how good her results were on the next set of tests. Four things were flagged as out of range, and they were important things. Two were things I had asked for: glycation was high, and ferritin was 295 (dozens of points over normal and only a few from "overload").

Disgusting! Then I had to fax him a copy of the law to get her records, which had been requesting properly and delivery of which was officially late. He was still was going to sit on his hands, so arrogant he thought he could just give them up if and when he pleased.

I even tried an expensive and prestigious holistic MD, and besides him being absolutely no help, it took four tries to finally get a copy of lab results including ranges. Forget him.

Ack! :eek: rant, rant.

It wasn't easy, but I finally found a doc for my aunt who speaks with us as tough we are sentient beings, actually has the lab results organized to share and discuss, as well as ready making copies available when asked.

rose

By the way, my aunt's labs have improved immensely since she has continued with dietary changes and supplements I have carefully chosen. Labs have, in fact, improved beyond what I would have expected.

People need to have the opportunity to help themselves. If they won't, no one can do anything about it, but to lie about results until things are worse and then insist on a drug is maddening. Costs in lives, mobility, health, and precious resources that could be helping someone.

Guess that last post wasn't the end of my rant. :p

rose

There is a really good Dr. here in N.Y. he combines modern medicne and holistic old world. He has a talk radio show that I happen to be listening to so I decided to call and see what he thought about b12. He said anyone who's level is under 500, and has symptoms, should automatically be given shots with out another thought about it. If you want to check him out he has a web site. drhoffman.com He has a center in N.Y. they also sell lots of good vitamins and supplements.

Good for him. And if he doesn't already know about sufficient doses of oral, I imagine he soon will. I read just a few things on the site, and there is a lot of good info.

rose

Maybe Iam getting a little ocd....but I happend to be going over all my old blood work from 1993 until now. I wanted to have all my info straight when I go back to see the hematologist. My RBC has been out of range, low, since 1993? Along with some others MCV, MCH, TIBC although nothing as consistant as the RBC. Only once through all those years was I actually anemic others wise it was mostly boarder line. Do you think this is worth mentioning? She might think Iam carzy going back that far.

Whether you mention it to the doc has to be a call you make, probably on the spot.

Pretty sad, and when someone who shows signs is ignored, think how much more frequently others are missed. Aaaaargh. Remember that many who are borderline or even more mid-normal on those tests would have shown a deficiency when provided more testing than those usuals. No ferritin? Not usually done, and so often is it necessary.

rose

homocysteinen levels
 

Hi Rose, (or anyone else)
Do high homocystein level indiacte low b12 or are there other reasons that the levels would be high? My dad had a stroke a coulpe of years ago at the age of 69. He also had a rare cancer, desmoplastic melenoma. So rare they but him in a clinical trial in Sloan Ketterin in N.Y. His homocystein levels are high he thought it was from taking some new med for high cholesterol. I told him to have his b12 level and mma checked next time he goes to the doctor. He also has high BP. My grandfather (his father) died of some kind of complication due to bladder cancer. One other question, Do you think that I should have my daughters b12 level tested? They are only 7 and 2 1/2.

There are other reasons. Three of those that can easily, inexpensively, and safely be taken care of are: too little B12, B6, and/or folate. A good B complex, plus at least 1000 mcg B12 alone at another time of day will take care of the most likely problem(s).

What is your dad's homocysteine number? Even in the high half of normal is not a good thing, especially for someone who has cardiovascular problems. If the doc knew enough to test him for homocysteine, did he know enough to give him the vitamins in appropriate doses? If not, your dad needs to do it himself.

I would at least watch my daughters. If there are any problems at all I would insist that they be tested correctly. And I would teach them about B12 deficiency before they leave home. Of course, at this time, a very good brand of multivitamin would be a good insurance policy, since it is extremely unlikely that they will begin malabsorbing severely for many years.

rose

cat265--
 

--Rose is quite accurate in mentioning the most common reasons for high homocysteine levels are inadequate levels of the B-vitamins. Homocysteine is an amino acid that is made as a byproduct of the methylation chemical process in the body, and itself needs to be further "processed" into usable amino acids; B-vitamins are a big part of that process. If too much homcysteine builds up, it can oxidize low density lipoproteins in cholesterol, making them much more likely to stick to arterial walls and narrowing them. It also tends to increase coagulation. This is why homocysteine levels are often monitored by cardiologists as an indicator of the likelihood of coronary artery disease.

Homocysteine and MMA levels measured together are a good (though not perfect) indicator of B12 deficiency--better than just a serum B12 level. One might also have an elevated homocysteine level with folate or B6 deficiences, and it also might be caused by certain medications, or by low thyroid horomone levels or kidney problems--have there been any indications of these in your dad?

glenntaj - My dad was taking somthing for cholesteral that might have increased his hcy.

Rose -
I was reading through some old posts and you had mentioned somthing about never taking folate if your b12 is low? I do not know much about folate is that the same as folic acid? If it is then Iam curious if someone was low in b12 and was taking extra folic acid (because of pregnancy) could this compound the problem?

No problem taking folic acid (folate in food, folic acid in supplements & fortified foods) when B12 is low if adequate B12 is taken as well.

Unfortunately, some people still are treated with folic acid when B12 deficiency is the problem. Folic acid will make megaloblastic/macrocytic anemia go away (or keep it away) while allowing the damage due to B12 deficiency to continue.

Some researchers believe also that taking lots of folic acid without sufficient B12 when B12 deficiency exists can hasten damage.

Folic acid is one of the things that can mask (hide) the blatant symptom (megaloblastic/macrocytic anemia) many doctors still think must be present if B12 deficiency exists.

I think people should take B complex in addition to their B12 (at a different time of day) just in case any of the other B vitamins are in low supply.

At least 1000 mcg B12.

rose

Hi Rose,
I got some of my blood work form the hematologist office. I do not see a b12 test on there. If they forgot to do it I am screwed. I have been taking 3000 to 6000 of b12 a day for about a week or more!! The only things out of range are:
RBC - 3.7 .......... Ref. Range 4.2 - 6.3
Hematocrit 35.5.......... " 37.0 - 51.0
MCH - 32.4.......... " 23.0 - 32.0
RDW - 11.2.......... 11.5 - 14.5

Iron (normal) 79.0 .... 37.0 - 181.0
TIBC 332.0.... 250 - 450.0
Satruation 24.0....
Ferritin 40.0.... 6.0 - 115.0
Hcy 8.91...... 3.7 - 13.9
Parietal cell negative
IF Not Detected
MMa 0.1 <0.4 umol/L
If all this is on the test it looks like they just forgot to do the B12. I have an appointment on Monday. One other thing there was a note "Specimen submitted was slightly hemolyzed, repeat as needed".

It would have been nice if they'd taken a B12. But assuming these test samples were taken before you began taking B12, the results still might be helpful.

It could be enlightening to see test results from before and after. They don't always tell the story, but sometimes they tell it very well. I would keep taking the methylcobalamin and ask for a repeat of the CBC and homocysteine in about a month.

Hmmmm. IF not detected, or IF antibodies not detected.

rose