It was in H.S. English Class...
 

... my freshman year when a classmate took his life. That's why I'm here - this forum.

How awful for you all Bobbi...did the school make counselors available so you could talk about it?

Did the Yellow Ribbon Program exist then? I was so fortunate to hear the Emmes speak when they came to our town...suicide is an awful thing to have in common. (((Bobbi)))

Yes, the school brought in counselors, only... how lame is this: My mother said I saw them, but, I don't remember having done so. My family moved shortly after. That total disruption (moving away), I suspect, didn't help.

If the Yellow Ribbon Program was in existence, I wasn't aware of it. Then, again, time following is a blur.

(((Bobbi)))

(((((bobbi))))))
thanks for sharing your story.

Thank you!

I know some people wish to re-count/relive or somehow re-enliven their H.S. years. But... those are ones if I had to forget I would rather. I don't have to let them fade from memory. I don't have the memories. I can't remember and I have been in counseling as an adult... and that counseling does emcompass for the dx of PTSD, layers and layers.

I've not been to any H.S. reunion and I doubt I'd go even if I received a gold-embossed invite.

The last I remember of that day: My friend reached into a paper lunch bag; he pulled out a sandwich and an apple and, then, a handgun. I heard another classmate tell him, "Don't do it!" It was too late :(. Our teacher's screams is the last memory I have of that day.

Who would want to be so young again? Not I. No thank you :).

Someone just let me have a veranda and a white wicker rocker and plenty of Heavenly Blue morning glories, and I'll be content with just being where I am at whatever stage my life reaches to rock myself in contentment.

Bobbi,

I am so sorry. Sometimes those vivid images can get locked into our brains, war veterans being a good example. Those images just keep throwing flashbacks that you can't seem to escape.

I'm so sorry for your experience and your loss.

Thank you, Farside. This is the first time I've recounted what I recall of it in an open forum. I've only been able to write about it in counseling, but can't say the words or I fear just crying so much that I'll lose myself in the puddles and sorrow and may not find my way out without a life preserver attached.

I know you all know too-darn-well how it feels and how much it hurts and I just don't know, yet, how to grow - beyond the sorrow.

But I'll learn. And, that's why I'm here.

((((( Hugs )))))

I just got a E-mail for work from my lawyer, work-related, so I should probably go read what she said :). She's fantastic and has helped me with so much. I'll likely cap off the night writing her so I may fall asleep with positive thoughts in mind.

Thank you each for being here. It'd be lonely without you, and other friends - whom may read this and understand why I haven't shared as much with them. I know they know I love 'em; heck, I've told 'em :).

Bobbi I cannot image the horror of that classroom..no wonder you don't talk about it! Oh but talk you must and cry you must...the only way to get thru it is to go thru it. I'm so glad you're getting counseling.

Please read Tear Soup...it's a wonderful aid in dealing with grief. If you will pm me your address, I'll send you a copy.

Let us be your life preserver. (((Bobbi)))

((( Thank you, Alffe ))); I looked up "Tear Soup" and noticed it's available at Amazon. If I can't pick up a copy this weekend at a bookstore offline, I'll order one. If not available, I'll take you up on your kind offer.

Some people invest in art; I tend to have a major investment in counseling ;). The agency's director has a ton of articles. Y'know, maybe it's time I made the time to read some more of them.

Thanks for being here!

this forum reaches so many. hopefully a teacher or a school couselor will read this bobbi. give that student who gave them a moments worry a second if not a third look.

kids can't read those warning signs. most of the time even family members can't. we are just too close. it makes it hard to detect those little changes that build up.

you may never bring that memory back in full. who says you really need to? (exact details i mean)the outcome is still the same. you know what happened. healing can come by helping others and realizing that there was nothing you could do to stop him.

no matter what happens we are here for you. we will connect somewhere on the internet if this place goes poof too. some friendships last longer than the licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop!

Whoa, I hadn't looked at it that way, Curious. Thanks for re-framing my thoughts about it. You've given a new perspective to think about it, since, maybe it might help teachers see possible signs in their students. That's good news! :).

I remember that his girlfriend had broken up with him and... then :(.

i think we are all brought here to share our stories for a reason. helping heal our own grief is one, helping others to heal and hopefully to prevent a suicide.

can you imagine if just one person reads all this and realizes what sorrow and grief they leave behind for generations and doesn't go through with it? makes me not think twice about sharing my story. ( my grandmothers actually)

I'm one of those mom's that kids open up to. I have the house that everyone wants to hang at. yes...brownies help! :p i know just readling what you have written will make me pay more attention to not only bubbamonkey ( he is 17 ) but his friends. same with lil'monkey and her young teen friends.

i am real sorry that your friend reached the depth where he saw no light. we can't turn back the hands of time as much as we want to. we can do everything in our power to help other see even that tiny flicker.

(((((((bobbi))))))) and an extra BIG frosted brownie and an ice cold glass of milk!

I've heard and read that the closer someone identifies with another whom has taken his or her life that it increases the risk that that person (identifying) may do the same. I suspect, but don't know, that seems a truism, yet does anyone know if that is accurate?

The same year my classmate died, my father was also sucked into a hole of his own being. He couldn't walk, following a surgery he had, and he told me - well, he demanded - that I get his rifle from his closet and shoot him. I didn't do it. And, to this day, I don't relate to giving such a directive.

I recall the incident with my father with total clarity. But I can't even begin to relate or identify with a parent dumping that on one's child.

I'm just wondering how "at-risk" I might be? I would hope that people around me, and I see so many health professionals (because of my med. conditions), that one would glean signs. I am very honest, too, in my counseling and with my doctors. I would hope one would be circumspect and jump on something that may signal clues that warrant more attention.

Am I mistaken for thinking so? I don't think I am, but... what do I know anyway :).


P.S.: Each time I have an appt. with my PM (Pain Management) doctor, he assess for depression. I cannot remember, off the top of my head, what the guide or assessment tool is that he uses (I'd have to dig out the reports). But in the few years now of seeing him, he's not cited anything that alarms me. Since I've been earnest with my docs, I would hope they are honest in their reports.

OMG! :eek:

Can you just imagine how that usetabe girlfriend felt? That poor girl... :(

Bobbi, THANKS for sharing your tale...
I hope that maybe, in some infinitesimal way, your act of sharing will begin an era of closure for you. You've a great enough physical burden to bear without having such a terror to haunt your mind.

Honestly, Gene, I can't imagine how she felt. It was a permanent end to a situation that might have found a better outcome if only... but there are always those in life. Maybe she is like me, and just doesn't remember much of those times. I don't know. I've not stayed in contact with people from those years, except a few of my teachers.

I envision my next counseling appointment will entail broaching this very topic.

If Life could hand me something I want right now, here's what it would be: A huge emotional eraser, so that I could talk about it without the fear that I will find myself digging out from tears. Just opening old wounds, and I've been there and done that, and to have the feeling of no way to dissipate the overwhelming feelings is the scary part.

But... I know I'm gonna get through this :). Heck, all I need do as look at the people in the forum and realize that what may seem so large in life and so painful can be faced.

Still: Got an eraser ;)?

(((( Huggles to everyone; can't offer or have too many of those! ))))

Bobbi, I'd gladly loan you my "emotion eraser" if I had one... or maybe you could benefit from using a "Bacular Clock."

Either way, I'd have to use it first... but I'd share...

Bobbi, talking about this is such a helpful thing. There must be so many reasons people kill themselves, anger..helplessness..intolerable pain..to instill guilt in the survivors..impulsiveness..on and on I think. Initially my husband suspected that someone had come into his apt. and killed our son. As if somehow that would be easier to accept than Michael putting the gun in his own mouth and pulling the trigger. Our son was a juvenile probation officer and owned this gun because he had to walk around in dangerous neighborhoods at night, checking on his case load.

We spent at least two years trying to find out WHY our son would do such a thing and I think that it was necessary for us to ask that in order to accept the fact that we'd NEVER know why.

What you and all the other kids in that room had to witness was obviously planned. Look at the lives he ruinned..look at the # of survivors and the effect it's had on all of you. It's something that suicidal people don't even think about I suspect.

Recently I watched Anderson Cooper on Oprahs show and he disclosed that his brother killed himself in front of their mother (Gloria Vanderbilt). He just ran to the balcony of her apt. and dropped from the ledge before her very eyes. It's so hard to comprehend this horror.

(((Bobbi)))

And I wanted to add (got tired of editing! :D ) that often I read about
"copycat" suicides among young people. It's almost like getting permission when someone completes suicide. :(

Bobbi-

It might be therapeutic to attend that upcoming 5th( :cool: ) HS reunion of yours. You'll be with a lot of people that will remember your friend.

I lost a friend to a drunk driver just months after HS graduation. And at the one reunion I attended, I learned other news, a nice young lady I knew passed during childbirth, another in a hospital undergoing treatment.

I know it's important to remember our friends like they were, but it was cathartic to learn even the bad news.

joe

A couple years ago, I did something that I, now, wish that I hadn't: I destroyed the yearbook - from that year of H.S.; (didn't want anyone reading things others signed in it... nice things but) I didn't want to keep it. If I didn't have to see the book, I didn't have to think about any of it. Good thinking, huh :eek:.

It registered when I saw what your husband was thinking about your son (((( Alffe )))).


One of my teachers asked me to be at the reunions, Joe. I just don't know ... yet. I probably shouldn't shut the door on ever going to one. I did look up some classmates last night, and might re-connect with them. Two (twins, so I guess there would be two :D) were my best friends: Their artists. One is a stand-up comedian. Another guy from our class is now a Social Worker; he's written on-line about his struggle with alcoholism; he's stated that he's sober now, though :).

We'll see, Joe; I might change my mind and go.

what's worse than re-reading what was written in your year book? what YOU wrote in others. lol. weren't we all dorky when it came to those things? i'm sure if you get in touch with some of your classmates bobbi, they will gladley share all those funnies with you. :D

as painful a time as it was....reach in and find some good. the memories of the goofy stuff. the bad hair do's. the crazy outfits....shoot...how cheap it was to eat a whole meal at mc donalds!

the craziest thing about my graduating class....all 32 of us...is that many married eachother! <barf> 2 even became the coaches at the school. :cool:

Bobbi,
I'm so sorry to hear what all you have been going through with this.
I'm not sure I can help you, but know that I would really like to be able to.
I don't know anyone first hand that has commited suicide, though I have been suicidal myself for most of my life even as a small child.

The last time I attempted well let's just say it worked and that I am here now only because it just was NOT my time.
This was about 11 yrs ago and at a time in my life when I wasn't even thinking about it as I had many, many times over the yrs. something happened I won't go in to and I just snapped.

However I'm so happy to hear that you speak to your therapisit about this i'ts important.

I have read so many things here that you say you regret and or wish you hadn't done, remember this always, everything is for a reason and whatever you have done or not was what was meant to be and what you did to get through whatever it was you were going through at that time.

When it comes right down to it the human mind is a wonderous thing, there are so many things from my life that I can not remember and I used to really stress about it and I have come to accept now that this was my minds way of protecting me from things that I just could not handle at that time.
There are times when things come to mind now that I know I would not have been able to handle at any other time in my life and then there are things I know I may never remember and that's okay I can not change what was.

I hope that there comes a time for you soon that you can accept what happened and know that there was nothing you could have done to make it any different, I believe it is very important for people to know the signs to look for, though trust yourself and know somethings you have no control over and just could not change.

This is something I have not talked about in a public forum before, though my children also have been suicidal and actually I know my parents were, my point is I have studied and found that this can be an inheritaed trait as in a chemical imbalance.

I hope I'm making sense to you and that some of what I have said has helped
and if ever I can be of help to you or anyone else, I'm here.

many hugs, LindaM

(((( Thank you, Linda for trusting us to know we value and appreciate that you've also opened up with your words, experience and wisdom )))). Yes, what you have posted helps. You've made total sense :).

In addition to my posts in the thread, I think I'm also going to take to counseling the writing I did when while in a group; it was a writers' group and we worked through a book that was entitled something like "Journaling through the Pain." A doctor suggested it.


I would like to see what I wrote in others' year books, Curious; I probably came up with some "winner" pennings :D.

Bobbi,
I think that suicide is one of those things we just cant get over and sometimes cant get past- its just such a "big" thing, for lack of a better word. Something that we often cannot understand. I spent many years of my life suicidal and have survived the suicide of my young cousin. And as I've aged, Ive found that I grieve for the child/teen I was as well as I sympathize and often feel the same as I did back then. Its a hard thing to keep within, the drive to find oblivion (which I think, for many, is what suicide symbolizes).

I know that I will not get over my cousin's suicide- though I didnt witness it, the images of my imagination are my living nightmare. I can only imagine that your lack of memory is the way that your mind is protecting it- you lived through something horrific and of course it will not only color how you view high school, it changed who you are on a fundamental level.

Just rambling, my heart goes out to the child you were witnessing such a horrific moment...
-B

Suicide, let's say it: It sucks. It doesn't have to be a conversation stopper, which is something that Alffe was/is so right about bringing up for thought. Why so it happens? I really don't know. I suspect it may be because many have fleeting thoughts in its direction, and those do scare the beeee-geeeeze outta people.

Thank you, Sadness, for your views and thoughts. It's all so weighty or heavy and it really does help to get and understand what others know and have been through, and, as sad as it all is.

What I am taking strength in right now, this moment, is seeing that Alffe, Curious and others made it through the darkest of moments. That's inspiration and hope.

There have been times, I will admit, that I don't know why one of my cousins didn't just "end it," Sadness. He had brain cancer. Because he was such a role model, while no one had a clue, I think: I respected how he chose to live. Maybe that's why, too, I am just trying to sort through (in my own thoughts) how some do the "copy-cat" acts that deliver so much sorrow to many.

I'm thinking that after I have the big talk in my counseling, my doc will join the forums. I realize that she needs my okay to say some stuff, but I'm gonna give it.

The honesty in this thread is really profound. I am sure it will help others. It is healing to me.

I always wonder if people who commit suicide really appreciate the finality of death. I know I had attempts that really were cries for help and attention. I definitely did not appreciate the finality and permanence at the time. I was in a soap opera and this was going to be my great dramatic moment of making a point. I didn't "get" that I wouldn't be around to see the fallout that I was trying to create.

Bobbi, I wonder if your friend in H.S. appreciated it. Given that he did it publically in school, that seems telling that it also was to make a statement to others, NOT to end his own suffering as the main goal. Did he leave a note?

I know what you mean about the difficulty in going to those "depths" inside of ourselves for fear it will break a dam that will never stop. Some feelings ARE so deep and painful that we can only access them when we feel strong enough to be overwhelmed with pain and uncontrollable emotions. That's a scary place to go, even if we can only heal and accept when we go there.

I know that I can be teary-eyed, even with strangers, at the drop of a hat because of the sadness that lies within. I think I'm strong and have accepted things, but it takes so little, a simple question or comment from someone, to cause my eyes to water and my lips to tremble. I wonder how to just FEEL it all and get it over with. I think I try to do that, but then, someone will say something and, well, I start tear-ing up again.

Thank you all for being so open and honest. This is such a tremendous discussion. Thank you thank you thank you.

First of all, I'd feel like a total lamer if I don't do this:

((((( Huge Hugs, Farside ))))). I know that I'm glad that you are here with us.

I can relate, too, in ways that you've been so candid about yourself, and in your wondering about whether, at times, some cries for being heard/seen just went beyond the realm of what some anticipate.

Sometimes, possibly, the internal pain is so deep, that it over-rides thoughts of external factors: people and effects. I've been there, and just something hit me, inside, when I knew things were spiraling beyond my control, so I called my counselor. (I had shared that on the BT SD forum and, for now, I just don't want to take myself back to that place of even writing about it; it was a black hole.)

What really caught my eye while reading about one of my classmates doing the comedy is: Repeatedly, my doctors even wondered whether I use humor as a coping mechanism. Well, who doesn't appreciate humor - as long as it is not at the expense of another? But I don't use humor as a deflector. I think I know when ***** is just too much to try sorting through on my own and I am so direct that if my doctors miss things, I'd even have to question: How the F*** did that happen?

What I am realizing by being here is that we each cope in unique ways. Sooo what if you cry, Farside :). That's okay. Tears, as I understand, are a cleansing. I'm just want to retain an over-abundance of control and solely because I didn't have it in my childhood. Tears, as was instilled in me by those much bigger and in authority, were a sign of weakness. As an adult, I know (cognitively) that's not true. Tears are a pathway to healing. But, for me, and as it also relates to things I don't want to rehash here: Tears were interpreted - by those whom abuse - as queue to exploit.

That's why I really do fear just crying and having any feeling of vulnerability. My mindset is: Ain't no one going to take advantage. I know not everyone does, but I grew up in a household where that was the staple of daily living. No shocker to my parents I'd say it here since I went through legal processes against them. But I also don't want to beat up on them. I just do the thing that comes first: Try not thinking about anything that summons pain.

Now, I just take life in daily doses... one day at a time. That makes it all feel so much more do-able.

Again, I'm glad you're also here and sharing. It does feel good not to feel so alone in feeling.

I think you all stay up a lot later than I do. :D It does however make for provacative reading in the early morning. *grin

Losing a loved one to suicide changes something inside forever. The accompanying feelings of guilt and shame are almost impossible to describe to someone who hasn't experienced them. As parents it's our job to protect our children...even from themselves if need be...and when you fail at that, not much else matters.

I raged at God...why my son?I blamed my husband (it was his job to protect all of us)I had to crawl on my hands and knees to the bathroom..unable to rise..for years I barely functioned because I couldn't talk about him...I couldn't talk about his death so I couldn't talk about his life.
I was just stuck in this awful place. I used to scream in the car on the way to the store so I didn't scare my husband.

But we all survived it and I have to say that it takes as long as it takes...there is no time table for grief.

I still get the occasional fool who says things like, "he went straight to hell". But you learn as to stumble along, what works and doesn't work for you..

I learned so much from a dear man named Pter on the old BT. His words..."I chased after death my entire life and now that I'm old and dying, I find myself chasing after life"

252 views on this thread and it weren't just me! it's reaching people bobbi.

i hope if i ever see a counsleor that i'm not told that using humor is bad or wrong thing. :( i don't thik i ever use it at someone's expense. it's a thought. 1 m&m per smile or laugh that i produce...hmmmm....gotta crunch the numbers on that one.

if i can give somebody one itty bitty ray of sunshine in their day...then it's worth it. those endorphans are priceless. healing.

time to go take lil'monkey to school. i'll be back.....you have been warned!

I'm bumping this up...lot's of good "stuff" here.

(Bobbi I hope you don't mind sharing it again. :hug:)

thanks for sharing this, bobbi

and thanks for bumping this up, alpho...

((((hugs for the room)))))

...good stuff...I want it to stay at the top..:grouphug:

I am searching for the thread about The Yellow Ribbon Program so quite a few very old threads will get bumped up....:o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKVHL...embedded#at=84


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