Twitching
 

Back in late February I was using a shiatsu machine. I had kicked off some twitching symptoms in my foot. Now I twitch all over. It doesn't hurt but it's so annoying. I wonder if someone with SFPN has generalised twitching as a symptom.

I know I have PN everywhere, but I also don't understand how the twitching happened all over body instead of just the foot where the shiatsu machine was applied. Meaning why does the twitching in the foot spread so fast to where now I get twitching everywhere. (not at the same time). I may have a twitch in the thigh then a twitch in the arm,then hand etc.

But it's global.And it's worse at night. I am on calcium/magnesium/potassium.

What else can I do? Is this still SF PN?

Thank you,

HI Aussie! I don't have SF PN......but gosh your symptoms sound awful! I can't imagine all the twitching......I have buzzing all over now and that's bad enough! I hope you find out something that will calm it down....or better yet.....make it go away! Best Wishes!

Fasciculations
 

Hi Aussie99,

I haven't as yet been diagnosed with a particular type of PN, although it is looking more and more like it may be SFPN (idiopathic).

Yes I have the twitching (fasciculations) all over just as you say..."here a calf, there a butt.....old MacDonald...." constantly flitting around. I'm sure they are there all day but I notice them when I am sitting quietly or lying down and particularly when I first wake in the mornings they are VERY pronounced then!!! They are not painful but nevertheless a totally new experience which started about five weeks ago. The onset of the fasciculations was several weeks after the onset of the constant burning/buzzing of PN so I'm sure they HAVE to be connected to the PN.

Perhaps it is a total coincidence that you developed the fasciculations after using the shiatsu machine! I think (and please correct me if I am wrong) that the fasciculations are part of the sensory-motor nerve involvement of PN. I have read (and again I may be wrong) that fasciculations may be the only symptom of motor involvement and there may be no further progression of motor damage/symptoms - which is good news if that is true.

Hi Megan
 

Your post made me laugh,and I appreciate it very much. It's exactly as you say. LOL!:D

Also thank you to those who sent me a PM, I appreciate it.

Im not sure what SF PN is but I have PN related to diabetes and I too twitch...A LOT somedays....not at all some days. Although it panicked me at first......I have learned to live with it as it is not painful for me, just annoying (and probably a source of humor to others when its going on ini my face!)

SF--
 

--just refers to "small fiber": those nerves that are sensory and/or autonomic and only lightly sheathed, or not at all sheated, in myelin (mostly the latter).

A "samll-fiber" neuropathy--very common for people suffering from vascultiis, autoimmune conditions, or diabetes/impaired glucose tolerance--is simply one in which those are predominantly involved. Since these nerves subsume the sensations of pain and temperature, small-fiber neuropathies typically result in nerve pain, numbness, and temperature disruption sensations.

are you still taking that beta blocker?
 

Beta blockers mask low blood sugar. Global twitching is found in 70% of patients with hypoglycemia.

Do you twitch more when hungry? (time intervals away from meals?)

I am a twitching machine! :rolleyes: You name it, if it's a body part containing a muscle, it has probably twitched uncontrollably at some point. The worst areas are below the knees in my calves and the arches of my feet.

fanfaire
:cool:

I too twitch all over. Two weekends ago I was twitching so bad that I was literally lifted off my bed from about 1/2-1". My whole body! It hurt, so I am not sure if this was a normal twitch or if my body went into some spasm. Usually the twitches don't hurt, just annoying. But when my whole body did that, it HURT! I guess it could have been a spasm, but I have never heard of a whole body spasm.

Has anyone else had something like this/or know of someone who does this? I have not been dx with PN as of yet. Could this be the result of PN?

Thank you for any suggestions/ideas/comments in advance.

M

Cannot speak for others here...
 

for me, it comes and goes...BUT I'm beginning to think it mite be connected with getting even a little bit de-hydrated. For me, that is. Try and make that sort of connection, and if it is...just glurg more water than you thot you ever needed for a few days and then find your 'balance'.
Can't hurt to try? - j

PS at times it can get bad - so bad that it wakes up the DH? Not often mind you, but it's at those times it hits home that what I've got 'ISN'T' normal.

As far as I know
 

I suffered only SF neuropathy, autoimmune and monophasic. For 2 and a half years I only had positive sensory symptoms and some autonomic disturbance. I have had amazing recovery from the neuropathy and dramatic improvement in my autonomic system too. Thankfully.

But I have developed fibromyalgia, tender points, and now the twitching. I don't know why I assure everyone I am the poster girl over here for clean living,exercise,and supplements.

I am taking BP meds Beta blockers and Atecand daily. I don't know much about hypoglycemia, but I am not diabetic. Unless one can be hypo and not diabetic??

But I beleive this shiatsu machine has set off my twitching. I just don't understand how massaging the foot...fair enough feet start to twitch,but what about the rest of me? My muscles will twitch at rest too. It's not whole body twitching at the same time,but a twitch here and there, in different spots all the time. But the twitching is in every muscle group. I don't know what this means????? Is this still SF? Is this Fibro?

Boy this is a hard one!

What autoimmune problems do you suffer from....I only ask because I realized an amazing link in terms of my twitching....and autoimmune issues

I was twitching everywhere it made me crazy and I had tremors. And neuropathy as well. And i took propanolol for the tremors it in addition to thryoid meds. I was taking the thyroid meds for my hashi's as i was starting to go hypo thryoid but apparently my gland was not being destroyed uniformly because part was still functioning and the other part was gone.

The more thyroid meds I took the worse i was. But the blood tests showed owtherwise...normal. And my symptoms just kept getting worse. But I did nto connect it to the thryoid or meds.

But it was my thyroid that made me twitch...it truly was causing a lot of problems...my twitching, my muscle weakness and my tremors.

Not to say that yours is similar at all but now that thryoid is gone...tremors and twitching down and almost gone all together.

Doc said I had thyrotoxicosis from my HAshi's and darned if it did not cause a lot of problems. Apparently not a lot of docs recognize it. What I have read about it is that you can test normal but as your thryoid is destroyed and thyroxine is sent into your blood stream unevenly (which is why blood tests can show norrmal) that its like little mini attacks on your muscle and the excess thyroxine changes the muscles from slow twitch to fast twitch and you twitch all over. Doc called it a myopathy. And thyroid problems are known to attacke nerves, especially arm and hand nerves. And tyrotoxicosis also attacks the muscles of the shoulders and legs/pelvis and hands the most. I was also dx with fibro but given the reversal over the last 8 weeks from the surgery I realize it might have been autoimmune all along. My doc gave me this to read.


A clinician may, however, wrongly believe that a patient who is "thyrotoxic" has fibromyalgia. The word "thyrotoxic" refers to tissue overstimulation by excess thyroid hormone. Hyperthyroid patients usually have thyrotoxic muscles. (So do hypothyroid patients who are overstimulated by taking too much thyroid hormone medication.) Weakness is the main symptom of thyrotoxic muscles, and some patients also have muscle pain. It is the patient with both muscle weakness and pain that the clinician may mistakenly diagnose as having fibromyalgia. Pain is the hallmark of fibromyalgia, and most patients also have chronic fatigue. A misdiagnosis is likely if the thyrotoxic patient describes her muscle weakness as fatigue rather than weakness. The clinician may mistakenly consider this evidence of fibromyalgia. The muscle weakness of the thyrotoxic patient, however, is easily distinguished from the general fatigue and low motor drive of the fibromyalgia patient. The fibromyalgia patient’s muscles are usually not weak in relation to her level of physical conditioning. Clinicians, including rheumatologists, must be careful to make this distinction or risk making a misdiagnosis of fibromyalgia.


CHRONIC THYROTOXIC MYOPATHY The symptom onset is very insidious, so much so that patients very often do not notice the wasting or weakness. An average of six months elapses before the diagnosis is made, as the symptoms are subtle and the progress is very gradual. As mentioned earlier, only around 30% of patients complain of neuromuscular symptoms whereas around 80% show muscle weakness on testing. Patients complain of low exercise tolerance, easy fatigability, difficulty in doing certain tasks, muscle stiffness, muscle twitching and sometimes muscle wasting. Shoulder, hand and then pelvic muscles are affected and tasks like climbing stairs, getting up from a low chair or lifting arms above the shoulders become strenuous. Due to the weakness, movements become clumsy and effortful. The degree of wasting varies among individuals.

Anyway please dont take this as me saying in anyway that your problems could be this but I know what that twitching was like and no one could help me with it. It was only after i insisted that they take out my thryoid that it decreased and is going away.

So it might be autoimmune connected. Just wanted to pass along my learning. I also posted a longer thread in the TOS and autoimmune forums of my experience.

Anyway I hope you find some relief. :hug:

Thanks Shelley
 

I don't think I have thyroid problems,it is tested regularly. It seems that too many things can cause neuropathy and also twitching. Too many things to remember and also to many to forget.

Thank you

I have had fasciculations for over a decade. It seems it comes in spurts and can occur all over. I have had them in the most unusual places. I assume it is part of the small fiber neurop. I have not really found anything that influences it, but then again, I haven't undertaken any real study of it. I may be incorrect, but it must involve some motor nerve activity, as a fasciculation is movement, not just sensory. I can see my muscles moving. Perhaps the sensory nerve is overactive and the result is signalling the motor nerve to contract the muscle. The generic term twitching can also imply a singular unintended movement of a body part, like a jerking. I get those too.

The docs don't really seem to understand this condition all that much, especially the idiopathic, so, I just assume most of my oddities are due to the condition.

Thanks Cycleops
 

for your reply. Today I went and did something I enjoyed doing after work,and I am feeling better.It's amazing sometimes how little reward or fun we with Pn seem to have. I can tell you now I deprive myself of plenty,almost everyday, because all I do is worry too much about PN.

Good Morning Aussie!
I'm glad you were able to go and enjoy yourself doing something fun for you. I enjoy working in my flower gardens and that really helps me feel better mentally and physically.
Have a good day......I'm heading off for day 3 'back to work'.

how much calcium are you taking daily?
 

And what form of magnesium are you using? Oxide?

Have you had a blood calcium test? Derangements with this mineral, or imbalance with magnesium causes all
sorts of musculoskeletal symptoms.

Mr. D
 

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/sh...t=16359&page=2

I hope this link came through.This is the Magnesium I take. I also take a better calcium supplement now too. I beleive I am getting enough mag & calcium.

If you have too much mag does it cause twitching Mrs. D or not enough magnesium?

Hope I'm not cutting in here. Just wanted to mention what helps with my twitching.

I take a supplement that contains calcium citrate and magnesium glycinate. I divide it into two doses, with the larger dose at bedtime, for a total of 1000mg calcium/500mg magnesium daily. It doesn't completely clear up the twitching, but it does keep the muscles from cramping, which helps a lot.

fanfaire
:cool:

Don't know if this will help or not, but I take SloMag and Klonopin before bedtime...

I think mine has improved some, since I had my thyroid surgery.

Cathie

I will look into slowmag
 

Cathie do you take the klonopin for twitching? Also is slowmag better than normal mag.

Aussie...
 

your magnesium supplement is mostly oxide form. This is not appreciably absorbed from the GI tract. I'd suggest using another that is only a chelate,
with NO oxide.

If magnesium is over balanced by calcium you can have twitching. This may be happening to you...too much calcium in relation to mag.

I'd quit both, and see what happens. Then start a new mag and then later add the calcium. If you do one at a time, you can see the effects more clearly.

Twitching (fasciculations) can also be spasms.
Uncontrolled spasmodic episodes can be controlled
by the use of Baclofen.
Many spinal cord injury patients (who also suffer from all types
of neuropathies) are Rx'd Baclofen as an anti-spasmodic.

Consider them both dropped..
 

from my vitamin regime. I'll do anything to stop the twitching. I will be going to see neuro a month erlier than expected. My appointment was for December but I called them and basically told them that I really need to come sooner(a bit of pleading too).So she is seeing me end October. I need to last until then without these muscle meds,as I know my GP won't give me anything.

Thank goodness for MrsD... I don't know what we would do without her and a few others in the know on this board. I take Klonopin mainly for pain, though it also helps me rest better at night. I just noticed the twitching was better.

I don't know if SloMag is better or not, but it seems to me that MrsD had posted something about using that, so this is what I got...

Hope you can get this under control. It nearly drove me crazy...

Cathie

Well I guess
 

I will stop the calcium/magnesium for 2 weeks or so. To see if that will improve matters,but you are right about the crazy bit.Last night my anxiety was at a record record high.I could have gone out of my mind with stress over the twitching.As I lay there in bed,I knew only a miracle would let me fall asleep.

just briefly to remind....
 

Calcium and magnesium work opposite of each other in the muscles.

Basically calcium enhances contraction, and magnesium relaxes.
The occurance of severe twitching suggests to me this balance is out of whack for you Aussie.

So stopping both (you probably get calcium in the diet already), will reduce the calcium at least. Some twitching may remain unless you eat magnesium rich foods for the stopping period. For example. 3 oz unsalted almonds have 270mg of mag... almost a whole RDA in fact. I have other food examples on that thread.
So try to eat wisely and get your mag that way.

Then after a couple or so weeks, bring in a good mag supplement (one without oxide in it) and see what happens. The Linus Pauling Institute has monographs on both calcium and magnesium to give you ideas about food choices.
Just Google them, and click on their website and put each one separately into the search box and it will bring up lots of info.

If nothing changes then when you stop both minerals, and you are eating wisely, then you have that information in hand for any neuro visit.
Also it might be useful to keep a diary... journal....containing what you eat all day at what times, and when the twitching is worse or better. This will show if you have blood sugar problems, or food intolerances.

Mrs.D.....
 

I really hope you are right.This twitching can drive a person mad. I was so uncomfortable last night,and you know how my anxiety takes a hold of me. It's like a crule punishment.

Thank you for all your help.:)

"twitching" and myoclonus
 

When I was on narcotics for pain I had myoclonus. Sudden noises or surprises would make my entire body jump, one giant jackknifing twitch. But on a lesser scale, it was evident brief movements of large muscles groups where there'd be a big "contract" and then a slower "relax". Like, my ankle might suddenly twitch up, then gradually go down. Then an arm, a finger, my head. They fit the description myoclonus, which is associated with opioid painkillers.

Are you one pain meds?

No LJ
 

I wish I was on painkillers...but I am not. I take Alka Seltzer, or panadol,or an anti-inflammatory for pain and depending upon which type of pain. These are all over the counter. In OZ they allow codeine over the counter,it is mixed with panadol.When in tremendous need I may take that but it's quite isolated as all it does is make me feel dizzy.

The twitching has eased up some though. But I just had an ankle twitch as I typed this.

I remember along time ago when I was hospitalised they put me on morphine.I had myoclonus on that and just as I was going to sleep I'd pop up in terror. As you say LJ, narcotics do cause some of these issues.