Questions on taking various supplements
 

I have been suffering from a polyneuropathy for over a year and a half. I suffer from great pain and sensatiosn in my legs mainly. My neuro has never spoken to me about supplements but i have been discovering their beneffits through reading articles on the internet. I am taking some drugs. Imuran because my neuropathy is related to some autoimmune issue and novotiral, because i also suffer from hypothiroydism. I have taken two IVIG infussions, so i guess it is still circulating in my blood. I take Methyl b12 (5000 mcg a day). I am planning to take more supplements because i have read about their beneffits. So i would like to ask you if you think taking so many things won't be harmful for my body, my liver or my kidneys in particular. I am planning to take:

Omega 3
Acethyl l carnitine
Folic acid
Lipoic acid
Magnesium

I would like some guidance on how to take them (dosage) cause i am a complete newbie in the topic. If you think i should take any other supplement as well or that i should eliminate any of the above, tell me please.

Monica

I would start slowly...
 

See if you get response to Omega-3,
and B12, folic acid and B6. There is an RX called Metanx...you might have it
in Mexico. Has all 3 in activated forms in it.

Sometimes this is all that is needed.

Hypothyroid people, often have low zinc. Zinc and selenium are required to
convert thyroid hormone T4 to T3. Your product has some T3 mixed in, but it is mostly T4. If you do not eat foods high in magnesium like nuts, then some orally helps with the Omega-3s.

If the first things do not work, then you can add the others in your list.
Acetyl-carnitine
R-lipoic acid

Omega-3s are very important, as they repair the insulation of nerves.

If you have normal kidney functions now, there is no problem taking magnesium or zinc. If you have kidney damage and know this already, you need medical supervision.

Here is the website for Metanx:
www.metanx.com
Of course you can buy these ingredients. This product is RX because of the high folate level in it.

Thank you Mrs D. I am going to do it the way you suggested. I was just wondering what the correct dosage of each would be and if i am supossed to eat them with meals or before them. Thank you

suggestion
 

The Omega-3s should be done with food. They are oils and not drugs, and
are absorbed like food.

If you do the B12 separately, it should be on an empty stomach.
The Metanx then should be done that way.

If you buy the B6, folic acid separately, and magnesium, they can be
taken with or without food.

Just an other question Mrs. D. how much vitamin b6 should i take? I have read in other posts that b6 can also lead to nerve damage. Considering that i eat tuna fish and other foods with a high percentage of b6, how much should i take in the supplements?? Thank you:)

I would also like to know about how much fish oil pills daily should be taken? I have 1200mg pills. Also on Dr Oz he was talking about cod liver oil and how it has omegas and vitamin a and d. Any thoughts? Sorry to ask on your post. Hope your feeling better.

Monica...
 

I don't know what you have in Mexico.

A B-complex 50mg should be the max you need. That is 50mg of the Bs and 400mcg of folic acid in this country.

You can go up to 800mcg of folic separately.
1mg methyl B12
up to 50mg of B6 daily.

But I don't know what you have there, so you will have to scout around.

I have started a B6 thread on this forum...it is near the top of this page.

be careful with Cod Liver oil....
 

There is a small amount of fish oil in a cod liver oil cap, but not much.

Cod liver oil is high in A and D. Picking a version that will not give too much Vit A is important. All the brands vary. One cannot increase the fish oil portion without getting too much A. Too much Vit A leads to osteoporosis, and
increased CSF in the brain (fluid pressure). For the average person, cod liver oil is not a good choice IMO. You can get the D3 inexpensively now separately and fish oil is safer to use.

Regular fishoils do not have A and D in them. I prefer these.

1 gram capsule of fish oil has about 120mg EPA and 100mg DHA in it. (they vary)
You can buy these stronger, enteric coated, etc.
There are all kinds.
Start with one regular to see how it agrees with you. The enteric coated ones are often double strength but not always.

If you are seriously deficient you need about 3 regulars a day with food.

Hi. Thanks I was not planning on the cod liver oil. I just saw it on Dr Oz. Ok so I have 1200mg fish oil pills there coated so no fish taste. So it says take 1 or 2 twice a day. So what should I start with and how do you know if your really lacking?What did you mean about tolerate?Can they make you ill?Thanks

daniella:
 

What brand do you have there?

It always helps if you give complete info, so I can answer you.
On your label should be a Nutritional chart, saying exactly what you are
getting.

I'd start at one a day with food.

Always start slow and see what happens.
I'd guess you are very depleted, given your history. So it will take time
to show up with benefits.

Monica...
 

While you were on that high dose Prednisone for 3 months, did anyone help you with nutrition, due to the nutrients that Prednisone depletes? Did you take anything at all? Prednisone is very hard on the body! Very.

This is a list of the nutrients that Pred upsets/depletes:

Calcium
Magnesium
Potassium
folic acid
selenium
zinc
Vit C
Vit D

No Mrs. I didn't know prednisone depletes nutrients. i don't know if i am defficient to any. I haven't done any blood work regarding to nutrients. Just vitamin b levels a year ago, which came out normal, but, you never know, it can be just one of those tests that are not done properly or that consider normal what in reality is low. I decided to take methyl b12 by myself because i figured out, all by reading the posts here in the forum and the links attached, that i could be deficient in this vitamin becacuse i present the following symptoms: nerve abnormalities (peripheral neuropathy), i was often tired and i needed many hours of sleep to feel moderatly awake during the day. An other symptom i related to b12 deficiency is that i have no moons on my nails, just in the thumbs and they are little and my nails also present a blueish, purplish, greyish color, both in fingers and toes. The neuro even once said, before i knew this whole b12 defficiency: oh Monica, your nails are so dark!, I was worryed and so was my mom, i compared my nails to hers and mine looked dark whereas hers looked pink. Two months later when i had the next appointment with him i asked him what that meant and hi said, literally, it’s nothing, don’t worry…. Then I consulted another neuro, who is my current neuro, he is a nice man, he is intelligent, my appointments with him are long, he checks me patiently and caringly. He is a nice man. Unfortunately, i don’t think he is informed about vitamin b12 deficiency. When i asked him about the reason of the color of my nails he said: I don’t know. Now i think this may be due to b12 deficiency, there are also bumps in my nails, so i present many b12 deficiency symptoms. Was it a good decision to take b12?? I am considering telling my neuro about b12, i am sure he would be open to this but i don’t want to sound all savy in front of him, because i am not, and don’t want it to look as if i were questioning him. I told him i was taking vitamin b, he never asked what type or if i was taking b12 in its methyl form.He just said "yes it is ok to take b vitamin for a couple of months". That was all he said reganrding to vitamins. I don’t even know if he’s aware of all this b12 issue. Sholuld i tell him???

Now, Mrs. D, thank you for worrying about my vitamin levels. As i said, i didn`t take any supplements while on prednisone. So far i have just taken methyl b12, i will start with the rest. Should i add any other??? My nutriologist is a bit opposed to me using supplements. I think she has some kind of prejudice against them, becuse they are usually sold by people who are not doctors. Because of the comments she’s said, i think she, and doctors in general, feel threatened by this approach, because, they think: how in the World is a person who sells supplements going to know more than me, who’s spent years in the university???? They are right, they know more thatn the average person, but they are dogmatic and stubborn and don’t want to explore other things. So going back to my nutriologist, she insists on the idea that i shouldn’t take supplements because i have received a lot of substances. I decided to go gluten free and she supported me on that. But she said i need to purify my body. I of course don’t agree with that idea. I think my body should be purified, but not from the things that can benefit me. So according to me and to what my common sense tells me i should take supplements, because i need them, my nerves need them to heal. Now the thing is that generally in my city doctors are reluctant to prescribing supplements. So i need orientation on that. Thank you Mrs for all the information you have given me and all the people who have read this post. Now if you can give me some more.


I don’t know, like Daniella, how to take the omega 3. I don’t know if i am defficient. Is it abosolutely necessary to get lab tests?? I thought i could just try them, and the other supplements, for a while and if they don’t work stop using them. But in case i am not deficient or too deficient, could i be harmed by taking them??? I don’t want to do all the blood work because it is time and money consuming and results are not even reliable, but if you beleive it is necessary, otherwise i could be “over vitaminized” and therefore harmed, then i would do them.

An other question, how long alter starting methyl b12 should i be seeing my moons coming back?

Thank you for reading me

MRS. D-Fluid Pressure
 

Your mention of fluid pressure in regard to Vitamin A got my attention.

Continued from above (sorry about that)
 

Mrs. D what else, that you know of, increases fluid pressure?

I was told by my psychiatrist that schizophrenia was thought
to be caused by fluid pressure. It seems to me that FP is a result not a
cause. Is CFS in any way related to FP?

If you are having neurologicallay symptoms, then I recommend you have you B12, homocysteine, MMA and B6 tested before taking more than just a simply multivitamin. Even with a very normal B12, you can still be functionally deficient in its neurologically active form, methylcobalamin which a rise in the homocysteine would suggest.

You can easily diagnose a B12 deficiency this way with the first 3 values, and if your B6 is high, it is possible you are deficient in its functional form, P5P which is absolutely necessary for so many processes in your body.

Omega-3s are not drugs...
 

They are oils that are carried in FOOD. If you don't consume enough in your food, you take them in capsule form. They are considered macronutrients, not vitamins which are called micronutrients.

Your body uses macronutrients to build and repair tissue. Vitamins are used as cofactors in enzyme systems that move macronutrients around.

Think of it this way.... Oils like Omega-3 are like bricks in a wall.
The enzymes are the tools that put them there and stick them together.
Without the bricks you have no wall. Without the enzymes the wall falls apart.

I found a paper about retinoids and this subject:
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/95/13/7240

Excess Vit A retinol taken orally leads to increased CSF pressure and symptoms of pseudotumor cerebri.
Other drugs also raise pressure:
Vit A retinol
tetracycline family
nalidixic acid
ketamine (recreational abuse--- or anesthesia)

Monica
 

Here are some links about the medical reference I use for drugs and nutritional support:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m..._7/ai_85522989

and about the authors:
http://www.lexi-comp.com/web/authors.jsp?id=100006
This book is available at Amazon.com

Thanks Mrs D. I have had multiple blood work but mine never shows any real dietary issues. Even in the past when I was so ill and malnurished. I do know I lacked fat in my diet for like 12 years. Anyhow the brand I got is Nature Made 1200mg odorless. The serving is 2 softgels but i took 1. Anyhow per 2 pills its concentrate is 2400mg and of omega 3epa is 432mg and of dha 288mg. So if I took 1 it is half those amounts I assume. Also what were the side effects you mentioned?As for ground flax seed I know that is rich in Omega and I thought I could put it in yogurt or something is this as benefical to the body as the omega in fish oil?It has 2400mg per serving too but the balance I don't know. Its called Bobs Red Mill Flaxseed Meal. I hate popping so many pills so I thought this could be an option. I just don't want a problem with too much so I wonder when you said I could be depleted how will I know how much I should increase to?Do you still think 1200mg is good to start. Ok thank you.
Monica the person you saw I'm not sure if its a nutritionist in us terms but anyhow I do know some have said the same to me about supplements. I think also because you MUST get nutrients from food to help those supplements work. Too many people think they can pop a pill and thats it. Its a combination of things to make it work. If that makes sense. Also some supplements I think you do have to be careful to not take in extremes. Even here in us the docs know little about diet and supplements. Even in my past without this issue and with my eating recovery I had to look for specialists who dealt with that ara. No docs seem to like to go out of their box. Can you find a doc and a nutritionist that specializes in this area of nutrition?

you can get flax in food now...
 

Smart Balance peanut butter has a gram in each tablespoonful.
There are Smart Balance spreads, and mayo too. I just bought a yogurt.

Please see my EFA thread for details.
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?t=6092

Thanks. See I don't eat that much of those products. I do have them but still adjusting cause its not like my Jiff. Anyhow I just took the 1 pill. I read through that site. I just don't get how much will assist in possible repair and is there any issue with having too much? Mrs D I think the pb is per 2 tablespoon. Not sure though but you may want to check.

thank you Daniella....
 

What would I do without you? :p

Been gone for a while and trying to catch up quickly.

Too much to respond to, but regarding the moons, their appearance or disappearance does not necessarily have anything to do with B12. If the B12 is needed and improves your health in a way that affects your nails, great. But that is very often not the case.

rose