Methadone
 

The doc took me off of Methadone about 4 weeks ago (from ox) and I notice good and bad results. The good is that I can go to the bathroom. Good, I sleep a little more often.

Lots of bad dreams though. Lot of Anaconda dreams. The Meth folks I've met seem to run the gamut and are quiet and don't seem to be partiers, where as some oxy heads I found questionable...

The pain is almost but not quite the same. I have MORE pain now. It comes on and off slower, so I can try to meditate it better since it's not so fast.

I have really icky scary MINI dreams. They must take place within a second, but they're so complete and detailed. It's horrifying. Sometimes I am not sure what's real or not real.

I am going to ask him about Opana ER and ask if that would have less of these frightening effects, and I am completely bedridden... Because I'm out of it my insurance co. and attorney are making some mistakes, but I just don't have the ability to couter act their failures to respond...I HATE THIS.

I mean to write an "up" New Year's hopeful resolution, but maybe I need to get into the doc and ask for help.

I think you should call and ask about a med change - icky dreams are not fun at all.:grouphug:

Tam,
 

You have been on some heavy duty meds
Cyn has not been on heavy meds as some of you.
My system doesnt tolerate it

I dont think Opana ER will do much for you considering the types of meds and strengths you have been on.

My 12th day in bed and the Opana took me out of the intense pain thanks to Dr. Jordan.
However, I'm still sleeping all day due to being drugged out
I still feel CRPS symptoms but not nearly as bad

He suggested Lyrica and Cymbalta and I balked
THANK YOU but cant you just give me a morphine shot every 3 hours?

Tam- i'm sorry about the dreams.... sleep is hard enough to come by, God knows you don't need to have it marred by nightmares. Its weird- the last 2 weeks or so, i've had some really strange, frightening, vivid dreams too. I hope that you feel a little better soon! At least the pain comes on a little more slowly.... i think i prefer that to getting blindsided by it. lesser of 2 evils, i suppose.

Cyn,

please beware of Lyrica and Cymbalta. Those are the two that really impacted my health for the worse - the Lyrica put my into diabetes (normal 85 blood sugar for my entire life and then 400 - 500 blood sugar within three months.) (And the work comp docs didn't even notice, as my eyesight was going, I was so sick, and then I saw the blood test, as I get all of my tests for my records, and then I had to keep waiting for the non-work-comp insurance to pick up treatment for diabetes. It wasn't until I'd gone to ER several times that non-work-comp finally got their act going. I STILL have diabetes and although I've gotten my blood sugar and diet down perfectly, I have tried several times to go off of diabetes meds, which cause weight gain, and can't stay off of them. I am so mad about the Lyrica, as you can see.)

Cymbalta, even though it seems to help Momz, did NOTHING for me. Also, Cymbalta is actually an antidepressant, and should not have an immediate "by one pill" effect, but rather you have to take it for several weeks (or more) for the effect to build up as a result of having a certain level in your system. If you go into a deep search on either of these drugs, and my pharmacist assisted me in this, Cymbalta does create weight gain, (although many antidepressants cause an initial weight loss, after several months this will reverse, and weight gain is the ultimate result.) Lyrica is known to interfere with blood sugar - they do not go as far as to admit that they cause diabetes. But "interfere with blood sugar" is a horrible statement for the company to admit, when it is prescribed to diabetics with nerve damage!!! I am shocked frankly that this goes on.

P.S. What I meant by the "partier" phrase is that methadone is not known for it's "off use" by selling it on the black market to party, whereas people do sell the oxy for use in partying. I don't understand it, as I NEVER got high on my oxy - the pain receptors were always so overloaded with the pain that I never got a "fun" or "party" effect from either of these drugs.

As for whether Opana ER is effective after one has used oxy or methadone, I don't think it matters. I think that "tricking the brain" is the key, by using something new, to try to fight the nerve damage pain reaction. The pain management doctors do discuss this - so it isn't so much that one is "higher" on the pain killing level, as much as it is a different formulation and may be effective simply because the brain is used to one drug or another.

In comparing Methadone to Oxy, I can say that with Oxy I felt more in command of my mind, and didn't actually ever feel high. (Topomax was another story! That stuff scrambles the brain I think.) But with Oxy, I felt more difficulties with digestion, bladder and kidney.

With Methadone, my skin is worse, I have these terrible dreams, but the good side is easier digestion and much less impact on bladder and kidneys.

I am not exactly comfortable sharing all of this information about these meds, but I know so many of us have to resort to pain control via meds, so I try to share what I learn. I'd really like to learn more about Opana ER, as I've heard of three people now on it, but not really any comparison.

I'd also like to be able to get Fentanyl for night relief, but so far the doctor refuses...

The next step he wants is a spinal stimulator, so now I've got to research that before I go further.

Hi Tam,

I believe that those who get 'high' on Oxycontin are chewing it in large does. Absolutely insane behavior. Methadone, I have never tried and don't care to unless nothing else was available.

After a few years of trying different pain meds, including Oxy, (which I could not tolerate), my Doc started me on low doses of Kadian. Kadian is a form of morphine in a time-release form. Over time it has been increased, but not really too much.

I found it to be a great option. It does cause some drowsiness and I do not dare think of driving or anything requiring coordination for at least 2 hours after consumption (Once at bedtime and once mid-day. Actually, I feel pretty good, but my husband can always tell when I have taken it. He says I slur my words a bit and seem unfocused...but I FEEL fine!

Anyway, I don't believe it impacts weight, my Neurontin does that, but in the end it's worth the trade off.

I am very concerned about your depression and of course THAT can cause many physical problems that you may not be aware of. Even though your brother had issues with Seroquel, I have found it to be a godsend and it works FAST! Might be worth a try.

I do hope you find the 'right' combination for you this year. It took me about five or six years to find a mix that I can live with and function reasonably...considering.

I have heard a lot of complaints from patients who have tried the spinal stimulator, but again, everyone is different. Consider asking about Kadian and Seroquel. I am VERY sensitive to medications, so they might be helpful to you as well.

Anne:hug:

OPANA ER vs Kadium
 

O definitely, I have read the issues with Lyrica and Cymbalta ALL thanks to you guys here.
However, I have to say we all respond differently, right?
I just dont wanna take the chance being affected with Neurotin and the ER.

With Opana ER I am stuck in bed sleeping all day
12 days now
Pain or drugs?
Drugs or pain?
Now the issue is getting myself up out of bed and start to move now that the pain has dropped with the Opana and see if it works not laying flat on my back.
The issue is...if I dont take it 2x a day the pain level shoots back up.
I'm such an addict now.

Maybe I should go and play some golf, tennis, ping pong, raft some sails, gymnastics, swing dance, lift weights, soccer, some basketball, and build a roof and see how the meds kick in and how i feel. :rolleyes:
I think I'll stick with trying to take a shower first and foremost.

Kadium or Opana?

Unfortunately, Kadian didn't work on my pain at the time. We went through quite a few "non-workers" in that second year...and ended up rather fast on oxy contin. Then I was on that for three years, same doseage, and body just got sick of it. Sometimes I'd have rashes, and have to take Benadryl, while waiting for a new med change. The Methadone just doesn't give enough pain relief though. So I've got to find something.

For Cyn, can you lower your doseage at all so that you are not so sleepy? Like take a lesser dose, but three times a day, so that the pain relief is more level in your blood, not such a high load to make you sleep? Seems like it is a doseage issue to me, hearing it from the outside.

Has anyone used Opana after oxy, fentanyl or methadone, and willing to talk about a comparison?

I have had an awful lot of embarrassing things happen to me as a result of TOS. Right now, this Methadone program that they are "tryin" on my is one of them. What makes it extra hard is that my jaw / ears hurt so much I can't talk comfortably, without immense pain, so I can't reach out to you that I love so much.

I don't think this methadone oes enough to cover my pain. It meses with my reality - A LOT

Right now I'm not drinking, or over medicating, but this program just doesnt run smoothly at all.

Heck, I can't even get into my questions to you guys about what toxic things it coud do to me!!!!

Please pray for me..I know that the scary dreams or snakes are not real, but still, they give an initial fear response tht can be good.

Hey Tam,

Get off that stuff. You cannot be living and thinking like this. Can you not go back to something that had previously worked at least a little until you can try something that is not messing so much with your mind?

I would be on the phone to the Doc saying NO MORE, NO WAY!!
If you are having so many problems right off the bat, what is the sense in remaining on it?

I wish I could be there with you to go the the Doc with you and help you when you are so weak and feeling defeated (sounds like it anyway). This is a temporary situation no matter how bad you feel.

Are you restricted in whom you see for medical care? I don't know why you are not getting referrals if this Doc needs someone to think outside the box for you.

I am here for you if you can think of ANY way I can help.

Anne:hug:

Opana ER is my pain control of choice
 

I can't offer much as my pain levels aren't like some of yours...but opana ER is great for me. It used to make me a little drowsy when i first took it, but it only lasted a short while and now my body is quite accustomed to it. I started on 10mg 2x a day. After surgeries i was taking 4/day for a while there. I added effexor to the mix and now that I am stabilized, i am trying to taper down to 5 mg 2x/day

Cyn, what dose are you on? It comes in 5, 10, and 20mg (possbily more) Having pain without the pain medicine does not mean you are addicted. It just means the medicine is doing what it is supposed to do.

Opana is oxymorphone, and will hit different pain receptors than some of the other opiods. It might just be the right new trick for an old dog...so I'd vote that it is worth a shot. I agree that nightmares are a bad thing, however brief. Remember, though, that opana is a year (or 2?) old, so not everyone is up to speed on it's existence.

:hug:

feel better

Johanna

Oh, I just wanted to add a quick thought.

Several years ago, I was prescribed Codeine for a serious ear infection. That stuff caused me to hallucinate too, (although not nearly as intensely as you are experiencing). This reaction was and is considered an allergic reaction. No one will consider prescribing this medication after I told them of this. I do not know if the Methadone response is short term or not, but it is not acceptable.

Also, you mentioned that Kadian was a 'non-worker' when you first tried it. If it did not harm you, it might be worth revisiting in a different dose as obvioulsy you situation has evolved radically in the last few years.

Are you forced to use only 'work comp doctors'? If you have other insurance, I hope you try having a 'regular' pain specialist look at you with a proper anyalysis from the ground up.

If Opana ER works for you, this will only be clear when you try it. Either way, I hope you get off the Methadone...YESTERDAY!!

Anne:eek:

methadone
 

Hi Tam, i dont know if you remember me or not but you helped me out a few years ago. I had my surgery in March 2005 and am getting along pretty well. I wanted to share with you what I did as far as meds go - I don't like the way oxy makes me feel and have a very low tolerance to that kind of stuff, so I started taking 2 advil liquid gels and a half oxy 3 times a day. Sometimes I take a whole oxy with the advil(depending on the pain level). I have found this does the trick for me. I spoke with a Dr. who runs a pain clinic in San Diego and told her what I was doing and she said that's what she tries to get people to try because the advil is an anti-inflamatory and the oxy kicks in from there. I don't know if this will help you, but you never know what is going to work until you try it. I hope you find the right mixture for your pain and can get back to your old self again.

Bev

Tam It sounds like you are having a really difficult time. Back in 2001 I was admitted to Columbia Presbetyrian Hospital in NYC to get me off of ALL Meds. I don't even remember what I was taking. At the time my pain had decreased significantly but I could not stop the meds. When I tried, I had major. While in NYC, they slowly took my regular meds away and replaced with methadone, then slowly off of that. I don't mean for you to be taken off meds but maybe you can do some kind of a program where they can monitor you until you find the right meds at the ribght doses. I don't know about insurance. Mine was not paid and it cost alot. I wouldn't know how to go about something like that but anything to get rid of your pain and find the right meds so you don't have those nightmares. Linda

I wanted to update on the Methadone.

I think my body has gotten used to it - it's been a month.

It seems to give a more even pain relief than the oxy did - I feel I had more pain spikes with oxy than I do with this med. The nightmares have pretty much stopped...

The pain relief is just not enough, though. Lately, I've lost the use of my arms, and even my legs - but my arms for whole days now. This is new. So I'll see this new pain doc soon, and shortly so I'll be bringing this up. My RSD is now flaring also.

Thanks to everyone who responded, I do appreciate the kindness.

Tam, I am so glad you have finally gotten to a place with your w/c that you have a pain management Dr who is really interested in helping you. You were out there on your own for way too long!

You know I've had a stimulator for my arms for about 14 months now, and it's been a HUGE blessing. Most days my pain is 4-5 now, not 8-9, and you can have a life worth living at that level, even if you are limited in what you can do. When the RSD flares I still go down for a day or two, but other than my feet burning it is pretty calm lately, at least since the holidays are over.

I haven't had good luck with Neurontin or Lyrica, my kidneys don't tolerate them, but I do take Cymbalta. I had taken Effexor but concluded it wasn't working effectively for me anymore for depression, and Cymbalta works not just for depression but also helps with pain as well. It has been a good addition as there are so few really effective options for nerve pain. I also take Zonegran, a nerve pain med rx'd by Dr Machanic in Denver, it has given me no problems whatsoever. And this week I added another med, Trazedone, which is an older antidepressant. I take it only at bedtime to help me get to sleep. It increases seretonin, and also has some pain-relieving properties as well. My main med is Oxycontin twice a day, I also have Zanaflex which I am now only taking when my muscle spasms are really bad, and Valium, which I take as needed at bedtime for muscle pain.

The Zanaflex I find really adds to my fatigue during the day, after getting up and taking my a.m. meds, an hour later I wd be so tired I'd have to go back to bed! Now the Trazedone is working, I am getting to bed at a much more reasonable time, but my body wants to sleep 12-14 hours - that's the next challenge to solve.

I know I don't drink enough water and clear liquids - live on coffee and soda. And as a result I am SO dry all the time. Need to do better with that! Oh, but I wanted to say I haven't gained any weight on Cymbalta alone, definitely did on both Neurontin and Lyrica, but I'm 105 lbs at present, only 7 lbs more than when I graduated high school! (I was 115 when I got injured, and was up to 139 at my highest on Neurontin, low 130's with Lyrica. I have sweat pants in 4 different sizes!)

Sure hope you see more and more good days sweetie. You've had more than your share of crummy ones.

hugs, beth :hug:

(May be some good forward movement on my case this week - let me know when is a good time to call!)

I'm glad the worst of the spiders sees to be over Tam.

How long does your PM doc want you to be on the Methadone before he will consider going up on the dose ? Do you still have a short acting ed for breakthrough pain ?

Take Care !

In general, the doc says you have to increase Methadone very slowly (over weeks) due to the build-up of the drug and the way it works (i.e. Anna Nicole and her son OD'd which is a risk when someone is just downing Methadone looking for a quick response, if that is what they did or not.)

Also, he said that with Methadone, unlike other pain drugs, that it can be raised with less side effects and give more long-term relief than other pain drugs.

As with any medication, we all are individual and can have differing reactions. I share this stuff only so that others can have some info. relating to TOS when they see their pain docs and have their own individual consults.