going to get them pulled w/RSD
 

i can't take the pain and infections anymore. my mouth has been piece mealed through the years and the pain is never ending. i think it's 'time'.

i'm going to start with onlyl an upper because of the cost and fear that upper/lowers will be too uncomfortable. the dentist has suggested uppers and lowers at the same time for a better fit.

can just uppers be fit properly to my lower teeth when i am missing one molar and will probably have a 2nd lower removed?

we talked about implants, but the dentist never heard of rsd. when i told him an external fixator with stainless screws in my arm for a fracture caused rsd and showed him my still atophied hand, he said it might not work. the pins on my fixator could be pulled out by hand for removal because the bone damage was so severe from rsd.

i'm on amoxycillin for 7 days for possible abcesses in a few roots and my gums. i have a refill for 2nd dose if this doesn't help.

i do have permanent bridge on my right side (span of 5 teeth) that i have never eaten on because it just feels too weird.

is this what dentures will feel like? i think i cracked the tooth holding the partial and also have a cavity under a cap on the lower teeth below it, so it's been a problem.

since getting rsd i've had several abcessed teeth and root canals (had unsucessful ones in the past) and caps are not an option. they don't stop the tooth from self destructing UNDER the caps!

is there any test a dentist can do to see if you are a good candidate for implants? i've heard that chewing is easier with implants.

right now i'm chewing on only 2 teeth in the rear of my mouth and i have almost no tearing food ability, so dentures can't be much worse right?

thank you

HI Neuromess,

Well I am in somewhat of the same boat as you. Have an infected root canal that is really messing me up. I can't take the infections any more either but I dont think mine is as complicated as yours. I see the dentist tomorrow.

Anyway Bryanna will be along to help you. She is very knowledgeable!


:hug::hug::hug:

thank you shelly. i hope you make out ok at the dentist. i was suggested for me to have a root canal/cap on one of my bottom teeth that is already capped, but i've been down that road before and the tooth was still in pain, pinned and eventually shattered.

i *really* don't want to do the lower w/out implants if i can do it. i'm fine with a regular upper. i just want to be free from pain and not end up like many ppl that go toothless because their dentures don't work out :eek:

right now i can't even eat a potato chip they hurt so bad. the dentist said they will calm down when the antibiotic kicks in, but none of my teeth are really viable to save long term.

i also have some metabolic muscle disease and need to see a neuromuscular specialist. i've been dragging my heels to make an appt. i know that the lower jaw muscles hold the denture in place, versus suction on the top, so i want to make sure i can hold the lower denture if things get worse.

what a mess!

thank you!

ps can an infected mouth cause night sweats? i've had night sweats for a year and a half which drive me crazy. the only time in my life where i had night sweats so bad (unrelenting) was when i had endometriosis and my ovaries quit working.

that was years ago and i had a total hystero in the 80's. quit hormones totally 10 yrs ago, so i can't believe it's menopause. i'm in my 50's.

thank you

dentures
 

Hi Neuromess,

Obviously, you have several dental issues going on at the same time. Your rsd can be a complicating factor which may limit your options for permanent replacement options. The (sad) truth about most dentists is that they know little to nothing about the body like a physician would know. And unfortunately, many physicians know little to nothing about teeth! With that said, it is not surprising that your dentist didn't know about rsd. So you will probably have to make some of your own decisions about future dental treatment based on what you learn on your own.

About dentures........
No, they do not feel the same as a permanent bridge. The bridge is cemented in place, whereas a denture is not. A bridge may or may not get food trapped underneath it, a denture may (depending on the fit). Bridges do not come out unless the cement seal is broken, whereas a denture is taken out to be cleaned and then it should be left out at night when you sleep so your palate can be bathed in saliva to avoid a fungus infection.

If at all possible, it is advisable to have upper and lower dentures made at the same time to ensure a matching set. Believe it or not, a new set of dentures are measured to accomodate your existing jaw alignment but they will give you a new occlusal alignment. If an upper denture is made to fit into your existing lower teeth, then it will not fit properly into a new lower denture later on. Denture teeth are completely different than natural teeth because they are either plastic or porcelain and they are not anchored into bone. There are no ligaments holding them into the jawbone so there is no natural give and take movement like there is with natural teeth. However, you cannot have a lower denture made and put it in the drawer until you are ready to have the teeth out..... it won't fit when that time comes.

As far as chewing ability........ dentures take time to get use to and eventually the person finds their own comfortable style of chewing. Dentures that are made to be put in immediately after the extractions generally fit much better than if you wore nothing at the onset. However, this type of denture is only temporary and will need to be replaced by a new one in about 6-12 months after the extractions. The surgical site actually heals to the shape of the denture so the fit is more secure.

Lower dentures are a whole other story. Since there is no suction (like the palate) to hold them in, they simply sit on top of the lower ridge. They generally move around when you talk and chew. Sometimes some adhesive works well to hold them in for awhile and then needs to be reapplied.

Dentures retained by dental implants do allow for easier chewing and speaking abilities because the implants hold the upper or lower denture in place. Depending on your individual circumstances, you may only need a few small implants to do the trick. It would be wise to consult with someone who specializes in the placement of dental implants and see what your options are.

There are two "tests" that are sometimes done to help determine if someone is a good candidate for dental implants. I'll tell you what they are, but keep in mind that neither one is totally reliable at any given time. One is a serum test called the Clifford test which shows if the person is sensitive to the titanium that is used in the dental implant. Another is called Kinesiology or muscle testing. This also shows sensitivty or acceptance to a particular material. Both of these test results can vary depending on a variety of circumstances that are too lengthy to get into here.

I wish this could be easier for you........... I know it can be overwhelming and frightening, but the infections are definitely not healthy so please try to keep focused and continue to pursue the answers that will help you to move forward!

Please keep in touch with us along the way!!

Bryanna

wow thank you bryanna. you are a wealth of knowledge!

right now between my permanent upper bridge and untold dental work through the years, my bite is already off quit a bit. that and tooth grinding sometimes at night.

even though an upper won't fit well with my lower natural teeth, i can't imagine it could be worse than what i have now as far as bite. i'm hoping i can ride my natural lowers a bit longer as long as the infection is cured. i have 2/500mg rounds of amoxycillin to kill the infection.

knowing i'll have to get another upper denture when i ultimately do the lowers down the road. without implants, i don't think i dare going with a lower.

those pins causing rsd, really scared the crap out of me!

in addition to a neuro muscular problem, i also have a very dry mouth (ears and eyes too) which probably contributed to the sudden collapse of my dental health. i'm hoping the neuro muscular doctor can pinpoint what the problem is.

but i'm pretty sure the dentist is correct and they have to come out. i've been on borrowed time with them for quite awhile.

i wish i had known i had an infection and it had been going on awhile. they did the 360 deg xrays and that's what they said they saw. i'm used to abcessed teeth (usually on a w/e!) but not used to a whole mouth infection. i know my teeth feel slimey even after brushing, but no bad odor or taste. and my gums sting. could that be the infection?

the reason i ask, is if i decide to stall a bit for financial or cosmetic reasons. how will i know if the infection is actually gone?

thanks so much for your help, and yes i will let you know what i decide to do and the outcome.

dental infection
 

Hi Neuromess,

You are very welcome, glad to be of some help to you ~'.'~

Your occlusion <bite> can be off from many things. One of the most common reasons is due to having ongoing dental work over the course of several years where the bite has had to be adjusted and readjusted to accomodate new work. This is why if someone needs to have alot of dental work, it is best if it can be done within a few months time as the bite will not need to have so many readjustments. The second most common reason the bite can be off is due to periodontal disease. With this disease, the infection causes the gums to become inflammed which signals the ligaments to swell which causes the teeth to shift out of their natural spot. This disease also causes bone loss which cause the teeth to become loose and again shift out of their natural spot. The third reason is tooth grinding or habitual clenching. Both of these habits cause irritation to the periodontal ligaments <these ligaments hold the teeth in the jawbone> which in turn cause the teeth to shift out of place. Teeth only have to move a millimeter or two to create an unnatural bite pattern.

You mention infection in your lower teeth...... Do you have abcessed teeth and/or periodontal disease?? Not to alarm you but to inform you...... neither of these types of infections are going to be "cured" by any amount of antibiotics. The meds may temporarily subside the symptoms, but the symptoms will return over and over again because the infection will still linger under the gums/within the teeth. The problem with taking repeated doses of antibiotics is that the bacteria eventually becomes insensitive to it and then new/different strains of bacteria develop.

The other thought to consider is any long standing infection in the mouth <periodontal disease and/or abcesses> will cause bone loss. The lower jaw is very narrow <in width> to begin with. So if you are considering the placement of dental implants, at least in your lower jaw to hold in a denture, the bone will need to be very healthy or the implants will fail.

Your dry mouth etc....... could be autoimmune related. Have you been tested for Srojens disease or thyroid disorder?

I saw on another post that you mentioned you were getting hot flashes. You are the prime age <50's> for menopausal symptoms which are not uncommon in women without their uterus. Even though you had a hysterectomy, your hypothalmus gland will always be producing hormones. You could have an imbalance that may be contributing to your dry eyes, etc.

I know..... lots of information to swallow here. I don't mean to sound matter of fact...... I just want to provide you with information that might help you along this journey!!

Look forward to hearing from you,
Bryanna

Neuromess and Bryanna,

I usually lurk on the MS page, but have been visiting here off and on
with dental problems.

I had two molars pulled in Jan of 07,infection, possibly already infected, ended
me in surgery having osteomylitis cut out of my jaw. The surgery to replace
the missing bone with bone from my hip was even more traumatic.

Now another shattered molar on the other side is scheduled for early April
and I am not quite, but nearly at panic level. I should perhaps have them
all out, but infection is such a big issue, and I don't want to land back with
the IV antibiotics and Hyperbaric oxygen tanks.

I would consider implants if they were feasible for someone with my wonky
immune system. I have seen pictures in the dental offices and they honestly
make me cringe, but I am desperate.

I already have a partial on the top of my mouth, with my dry mouth and the
cut nerve in my jaw, eating in public is messy at best and mortifying the
rest of the time. I am also having some difficulty with talking intelligibly,
especially on the phone.

I so identify with you Neuromess, and hope that we can both see good
outcomes with our problems.

Thanks in advance, Bryanna.

kami

dental surgery in MS patients
 

Hi Kami,

So sorry to hear that you had such a horrific experience with your last dental extractions. Osteomyelitis is an infection of the bone or bone marrow and it usually has traveled from another part of the body through the blood. This type of infection is frequently diagnosed via biopsy in root canaled teeth and the surrounding bone. Especially in long standing tooth infections. This is one major reason why I am so anti root canal! It is very hard to eradicate completely because it can spread to other areas.

Were you premedicated with an antibiotic before the surgery? Sometimes this can help in conjunction with the actual surgical debridement of the bone during the extraction as far as the healing is concerned.

Why was the donor bone removed from your hip? Were you given other synthetic replacement options or were you not a candidate for those types of bone grafts?

My suggestion to you is this....... it may behoove you to have an IV drip of vitamin C and glutathione immediately after the extraction. This is a major boost to the immune system to help with the healing. Not all oral surgeons or dentists will do this. Some patients go to their physician for the IV instead of having it in the dentists office. Perhaps you could get some guidance from the IAOMT organization. www.IAOMT.org

Please try not to panic. I know this is very scary. Here are a few websites that may be helpful.

http://www.drshankland.com/osteocavitation_lesions.html

http://www.docguide.com/news/content...25709000690E6B

http://www.cda-adc.ca/jcda/vol-66/issue-11/600.html

Please remain hopeful and keep us posted on how you are doing!!

Bryanna

Hi back, Bryanna

I am premedicating with Clidamycin and hope that it is sufficient. I didn't in advance last time, only after.

About the bone "harvesting"n I did ask about cadaver bone, coral or a synthetic implant.
I was turned down flat; they (the surgical group?) felt that they had the best outcome
with a patient's own bone. Just a lot more pain and another scar.

I was extremely nervous about the possibiltiy of two infections aftert the surgery.
Happily there was only one, at the site of the sutures, not the bone(s).

I will enquire about the immune boosting IV; I am in a difficult spot as my system
seems to be overly active with the immune system attacking nerve myelin and brain
tissue. I take Avonex weekly ( interferon-beta 1a) to depress my immune system and
slow the advance of the Multiple Sclerosis.

Thank you for the links to sites. I will do some more research before the proceedure.

I will post back later with any results. All the best, kami

having similar dental problems
 

I am new to NeuroTalk....just was browsing from PC......saw this post & had to read because it sounded so similar to my issues.

I have about 10 teeth have have compleletly broken off & all the others are so decayed, there is no saving anything & no reason to even try. I can understand the lack of chewing ability....it is almost impossible. Sometimes I get food caught in my throat but that is also because I had neck fusion & for some reason....even pills get stuck in my throat, so I don't think it's just the teeth & not chewing the food completely is the problem with that.

I haven't had the money to put into having all my teeth taken out. I was looking into the implant option because I can't imagine having dentures both top & bottom......I do dressage horse riding & keep picturing the denturies flying out of my mouth when I'm in the middle of riding in a show.

I went to a dentist in the previous state I lived in when I was there just before Christmas (another tooth had just broken off towards the front of my mouth & it's really embarassing looking......so no way will I even open my mouth very much....that's hard because I talk a lot but no smiling with my mouth open. That dentist specialized in implants & she said that after all my teeth are pulled, there wouldn't be enough bone for the implants to attach to. She said that the surgery to to the bone transplant from the hips would not only be costly (at least $40,000, but it's also very painful & the chance of being successful isn't great). To top that off, for the dentures, I have the problem where there are the mandibular tubili (something like that) that have to be removed from behind my lower teeth for any dentures to even fit into my small mouth.

I am surprised with all these teeth problems, I have absolutely no pain....that is beyond my understanding except that I am sure it's stopped by the pain medication i am on for my migraines. Nothing helped my migraines except for being on a high dose of narcotics which I have been on since 2003 & I am sure that is stopping any horrible pain from my mouth. I know I still feel pain it's not that I dont because then I was thrown off my horse & got a concussion from landing on my head (even with my helmet on) & messed up my shoulder.....I felt that pain, so I know I feel pain....but I know there has to be some pain I am not feeling with my teeth as bad as they are.

I have just moved to my farm in another state & am have to look into the local university. They are supposed to have a wonderful dental school that can possibly to the work for a lot less but do state of the art work since they are a research school also.

I have to admit, I am afraid of dentists from all the bad experiences I have had all my life. First off, I am sure I inherited my bad teeth from my Dad (thanks a lot Pops) & then they told me that when my teeth were forming, I had been really sick with a high temp & antibiotics which they said messed up the forming of the enamel.....so I was having cavities & chipping teeth from the time I had teeth.... that was before the day when they did any floride treatments to strengthen enamel. I then for some reason, I always grinded my teeth all my life. I have no idea why I did that but that was also before they knew how to protect the mouth when someone does that.

My teeth have been in this condition for years & years since I haven't had money for years & years that could be put towards this & I have been in a very unsettled state for ever also until I am finally getting settled in my own home now & in the process of getting divorced. Going through this alone isn't exactly something I am looking forward to either....especially while I have all my horses & dogs to take care of on top of myself....no time seems good to do all this let alone how long it will take for recovery.....there is always an excuse to not do anything about it with all the fear on top of it but I know there is going to come an end to the time I can procrastinate & that has to be coming soon. Besides, I want to try I get off the pain med I am on for the migraines to see if they have finally gone away or at least can reduse the amount of med. That is also an expense that I don't need if it really isn't necessary anymore. It is hard to say because the med completely controlled the migraine pain, so I haven't had the horrible pain since 2003....it was almost constant migraine pain that wouldn't go away & I had had that pain from about 1995. It was such a relief to not have the migraine pain that I didn't push trying to see if the pain had gone away.

I had no idea that others were in the same situation as I am....I thought I was the only one that would let dental work go for so long....partly financial reasons but also fear & never having time for down time for recovery. I had gone through a horrible trauma with my Mother dying of cancer just 3 years ago & the stress had caused me to loose so much weight, I was in the hospital for several months on IV nutrition.....& it turned out the PTSD symptoms really messed me up for quite some time....I have just been getting through symptoms.....so there is a lot going on in my life besides trying to get my house settled & the barn & pasture put into my new farm 2200 miles from where I previously lived.

It's time to do something with the teeth situation......soon...it can't make things worse than they already are, but one never knows how surgeries go....which is also part of my fear. I sure don't want to be awake for the surgery of having all the teeth pulled....I just want to be put out & wake up with it over with....I wish there was a way to have even some implants..but that will be determined in how much bone is even left after all the teeth are pulled

HI kami,

Clindamycin is a common rx for oral surgery. Make sure you supplement with a probiotic to keep your intestines healthy. Just don't take them at the same time ....... usually an hour or more apart is good and you only need to supplement with the probiotic 1-2 times a day.

I can understand their reluctancy to introduce a foreign matter (bone graft) into your bone due to your health history. Your body is less likely to reject your own bone. I hope this surgery goes alot better than the last one!!

Please keep us posted on how you are doing!!'

Bryanna