Vitamin d deficiency
 

Hi everyone, I have just found out that I am vitamin d deficient. Can anyone please tell me if this could be the cause of my Neuropathy? My doctor has given me 400iu tablet to take, is this enough or should I take more? What is the maximum safe amount that I could take every day? Thanks for reading this.

I know my endo said it is important for building bone. I may be confused. Do you have osteo? I have osteo but have good d levels but my doc still has me taking calcium with vitamin d. I think I take 2 600calcium with 400of vitamin d. My mom has low d levels and is on prescription I think once a month or week not sure. Is your prescription?Hopefully Mrs D will come a long and give more answers and correct me if I am wrong.

400 IU.... is this correct?
 

There is a very complete Vit D thread over at BrainTalk. I suggest you
read over there...first page of the Vitamin Forum.

400IU will do nothing. Also it depends on the form you take. If it is D2
(ergocalciferol) it will be even less effective.

Very deficient patients are usually given 50,000 IU weekly for a few months, retested, and typically 2000 to 4000 IU daily (preferably D3 cholecalciferol).
Some patients take 10,000 IU daily. I myself use 2,000 IU D3 daily.

I don't think low Vit D causes PN, but it does seem to relate to chronic pain issues in general and appear in those who have chronic pain syndromes.

Mrs D so quick. I was just thinking that I was told that low vitamin d can have a role in fibromyalgia. This may not be true but do you have any of those symptoms too?

Hi Mark:

Sitting in the sun is a good way to get lots of Vitamin D. Slap on some sunscreen, (don't know if the Vitamin D gets through Sunscreen).

Sit for 20 minutes. I try and do this as much as I can.

It feels so warm and wonderful. And I'm absorbing all that D. At least I tell myself that I am. lol

Take care,

Melody

Unfortunately, Mel--
 

--sunscreen--at least, effective sunscreen, blocks precisely those wavelengths of ultraviolet radiation that cause the skin's cholesterol to start the reaction that lead to the production of cholecalciferol (Vitamin D3).

From what I've read of the literature, though--mostly thanks to Mrs. D and Ted Hutchinson at the Vitamin forum at BT--by the time skin begins to redden in the sun, that means the skin can no longer add to its D3 production capacity--the reaction now breaks down into a homeostatic feedback equilibrium (e.g., whatever is made gets pulled apart almost immediately). The trick seems to be to get short, concentrated bursts of ultraviolet onto the skin and stop before there is noticable damage, whichis when the skin cancer incidence rises. Depending on one's own particular hue, the time of day, the time of year, and the latitutde, this may be anywhere from 10 minutes to a hour or more--in fact, at high latitudes, it's unlikely that during late fall through early spring one CAN get enough exposure to produce optimal levels (and there's a lot of evidence that in places like Scandinavia, people are running around with chronic Vitamin D deficiency, especially in winter).

Since I'm very light and freckly, in summer I limit myself to ten minutes--at high noon, maybe five. And this is with much of my body uncovered--short sleeves, shorts. In other months, there's less sun, and I am more covered, so I try to stay out longer, but I do supplement with D3, as I suspect I'm not getting what I need at those times of year.

Don't you kind of find it odd, that the sun, the giver of sunshine, solar panel stuff, the bright shiny thing way up in the sky, that same lovely star that gives us vitamin D, can also kill us with skin cancer.

Good Lord.

See, I grew up on boats, the beach and sunburns, with the peeling and using noxema. Back in my time, you wanted to go to the beach and get as red as you could get because you knew that in time, you would get a nice tan (now how dumb were we way back then).

The guy who used to live downstairs from me (about 10 years ago), was fair with blond hair. He had two skin cancers removed.

I once saw him go outside without a hat. Now I'm not stupid, believe me on this one. I know that when you have had skin cancer (he had some kind of either basal or squamous cell carcinoma), that the next time you go into the sun, you are supposed to slather on sun screen and put on protective clothing. I knew this.

So I said: 'why are you exposing yourself to the sun, don't you know that you can get it again?" And his reply was "Oh, I don't care about that".

Now this was a professional man in his late 40's who had two skin cancers removed from his face. I just stood there and I said "are you serious? you really don't put on sun screen at all and you won't put a hat on?"

He said "Nah, I don't believe in that stuff". And I have a friend's husband who has had a heart attack and still eats red meat, and they just found some spots on his lungs and his pancreas and his reaction was (after having ct scans and everying, his reaction was "I want to live my life the way I want to live my life". So he is continuing his red meat, his drinking, and he actually said: "I like to live like this, so I don't are what happens?

???????????????????????The guy is a grandfather who is raising a 5 year old grandaughter with his wife who has MS.

WILL SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THE THINKING OF THESE TWO INDIVIDUALS??

I know me, if I had ever had some kind of skin cancer removed, that would be my last day in the sun. I know me. And if I had some previous heart attack, I wouldn't be eating red meat or drinking every Saturday night. I don't eat red meat ajnyway, but that's beside the point.

I do not understand how a person can get two skin cancers removed and then go out in the sun without sunscreen or protective clothing.

Makes no sense to me. But I'm clueless here. What is it? A man thing or something?? I know we are supposed to enjoy our lives to the fullest but, well, I just don't understand this way of thinking.

well...
 

It is disturbing but people who use sunscreen tend to get MORE skin cancer than others.

example:
http://expertvoices.nsdl.org/newstop...ing-sunscreen/

You can google this... and it is true. For a while it was thought that PABA in sunscreens was the culprit, but even though that ingredient was replaced,
the cancers still are higher in those using sunscreens.

It is a confusing complex subject...and all the answers are not in yet.
One theory is that low Vit D levels in the skin, are to blame.

Hi thanks for all your replies, the doctor has prescribed me vitamin d3 400iu a day for 2 months. Should I take more then? I have a found a website that says low levels can cause Paresthesia. I am hoping that maybe that is what I have....

Hello Mark,

Please tell us:

• What were/are your symptoms?
• What was your measured vitamin D level (with the units)?
• Where do you live (to give us an idea of how much sun you get)?

Vitamin D deficiency can cause quite a bit of pain, even before there is any evidence of bone damage on a scan. This "hypovitaminosis D" can cause joint pain, bone pain and muscle pain.

I was able to increase my vitamin D level, from a borderline low of 55 pmol/L (= 22 ng/mL) to 90 pmol/L, by having sensible sun exposure.

This might be an alternative for you to consider, depending on how severe your deficiency is, where you live, and your lifestyle.

I invite you to read my posts on these two threads:

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread41845.html
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread42532.html

Even if you opt not to use sun exposure, you might find something useful in the links that I have provided in the first thread.

Paul

Then I guess it's just about selling sunscreen.

Good Lord.

It's very hard to do the RIGHT thing, when it's confusing what THAT RIGHT THING IS!!!!!

Thanks for the information. Hope the dust is finally settling at your neck of the woods.

Mark, Listen to
 

Mrs D carefully. She is chock full of facts and doesn't mince words!
She is also cautious about suggesting dosages and isn't one to simply say 'More is Better' or the like.
I have to warn you tho? Reading about VitD's and all the different types and how best they might be asorbed/assimilated and all can truly fog the brain in the learning process. BUT, if you get the basics and do the best you can, you are likely see a change. That might not happen overnight tho? You have to keep in mind that you have developed a deficiency over some period of time, likely an extended one. Soo it's going to take another period of time to see results. The monitoring of results will be up to your docs and their blood tests.
I would not dare to think that singly a VitD deficiency could cause neuropathy? But, in this world, who knows? Sure would be nice to think that is the case in YOUR case! SUPER Good thoughts for now. - j

Me too Melody! I'm an Aussie....the land of sunshine and beaches. Never in my life have I ever lived further than 15 minutes drive from the ocean, and even then, I was usually closer to a river.

From early childhood to my early thirties I lived at the beach. Swam all year 'round (well almost), and was never without a tan. Now I'm suffering from those days.


Why wait that long? I just had most of my nose removed, and a new one built, because of skin cancer! Don't wait until you're disfigured. I'm so very grateful that I had such a wonderful plastic surgeon to rebuild my face, but it could have been worse!

We need exposure to sunshine for our bodies to get the necessary amounts of Vit D, but stay out of it during the hottest part of the day, and follow the rest of the rules to prevent skin cancers. Remember, we need less than 30 minutes of sunshine a day to get our quota of Vit D.

The point of my post is to let you know that I have low Vit D levels too! Even though my history defies the fact, my levels were rock bottom. I now have osteoporosis, and have broken 6 bones in 5 years! Whether that's because of my low Vit D or because of long term steroid therapy, who knows? All I know is the level was so low my doctor was stunned, and I now take a daily supplement.

I'm sorry to have gotten off topic a bit there Mark, but Mrsd has some excellent suggestions and info for you. Please take heed of what she has to say.

I wish you well, and hope things right themselves for you soon.

Good Article Mrs D
 

Havent read that before - but I too Koala grew up at the beach here after moving from the cold north, and am very fair skinned... we burned at the begining of each summer, adding baby oil to the mix which of course made the burn worse - then eventually turned very brown by end of each summer.... of my siblings - even though we had relatively the same sun exposure - I had my first skin cancer in my 20's, 6 total to date, the last one 5 years ago and I too had to have the side of my nose reconstructed... my siblings on the other hand have had no cancer... I think theres a genetic component to it as it seems with many other diseases... the docs always tell me its the sun exposure I had as a teen that caused the cancers now but who knows...

Honesty, I still dont use sun screen as a separate entity - as it seems to take the cancers years to develop - but do use facial and body moisturizer with a SPF of 15 as my skin cancer docs have directed me too - most moisturizers have it in them now... I wonder Mrs D if it is contributing to any future cancers?

Just to put a dash of humor into this thread, I had once noticed some "thing" on my breast. And another on the back of my arm.

So off to the local dermatologist (who also happens to be a leading skin cancer guy). He was the one who diagnosed my granuloma anulare on my hand.

He loves when you look up stuff on the internet.

So he checked my breast and (I forget what he called it) some type of keratosis I think he said. He said leave it alone, it's nothing. Then he checked the back of my arm. Said: "same thing" I've had the thing on my arm for YEARS!!!

He checked a little cyst on the side of my nose that had been (burned off) by another dermo guy but I hated that guy so I went to THIS guy.

He knew about the other guy and said "yeah, I know, he has no bedside manner, I get all of his patients".

so he checked my upper back and various stuff on me, and prounced me perfectly fine.

The he asked me "do you want to get naked so I can check your body".

Having never been asked that by anyone in the world I believe I said "I beg your pardon". He laughed and understood immediately. He explained that he does full body checks but you have to get naked.

There I was, in my late 50's and I wasn't about to get naked for any strange man. I got out of there in a hurry. I have seen my body, there aren't any other "things" any other place, and he checked the things i needed to be checked.

Then I told my girlfriend and she said 'Oh my husband Joe gets naked all the time at the dermatologist". I was absolutely amazed.

I never knew that people do this.

I may do it again some day if I notice anything. But I never go in the sun in the middle of the day or when the sun is highest. Just when it's pleasant. I love the feeling on my face, but not so much that I sit in the backyard like my landlord whose daughter puts on a bikini and bakes all day long.

All day long, all during the summer, they get as dark as if they lived in the carribean. They are in their early 50's, have great bodies, and the fact that they live in the sun, has not made one iota of wrinkling in their skin.

I asked them once "do you think it's smart that you bake in the sun", and she laughed and said "look at me, do I have any wrinkles or dry skin?" I had to admit that she was beautiful.

I think, in their cases, it has to be genetics playing a part. The father is 82, smokes 5 packs a day and is healthy as as horse, and their grandmother lived to 105. So sometimes genetics has to have some bearing on this, right??

As strange as it may seem--
 

--I do get completely naked in front of my dermatologist once a year (and the dermatologist is female).

It's been going on so long now that there's no embarassment left--except when I point out what girth I've added since the previous visit.

And--she also photographs me. The idea is to have a record of any little blemishes or possibly suspicious areas and see if they change from visit to visit. (So far I've been very fortunate in that regard. She has frozen off a few warts for me, though.)

Mark...
 

Get your test results and post here.


This quote from a website sort of sums up the experiences
people may have at their doctor's...
from http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=3&gl=us

I don't know if the paresthesias are from low D itself, or from low calcium that results from poor absorption of
calcium from the diet, when D is low. Aberrations in calcium and magnesium levels cause paresthesias.

When I went to the derm I had to get a suspicious mole removed. Anyhow there were boxes to check what areas you wanted to be looked at. In my eyes I would rather a doc see me naked and get it early then let something go. It is less embarassing to me then a gyno but that is my opinion. If everything looks fine I guess but I went in for one mole that I thought looked weird and that one was fine but one that looked fine to my eye he took off. My friends bake in the tanning beds. I always tell them in 10 years your going to look like a leather bag. It looks good now but in years it may not.

THEY TAKE PHOTOS!!! Oh my god!!!! lol

I did have something when I was 17 or 18, it was the oddest thing. I would get it between my breasts, and on my belly. It had to do with the hot weather and when I sweated. I'll never forget what the doctor called it . Tinea Versicolor (how can I forget a name like that).

He would prescribe SELSUN shampoo and told me "go in the Shower, pour this all over your body from your head to your toes. (Then I believe I had to put some on the big patch between my breasts.). I looked it up once. It's a kind of fungus I believe. I had this on my upper belly and between my breasts for my teen years. Then about age 20, it all vanished.

Oh, I remember now, I would get some patches on the back of my neck.

But it's been 40 years now and never came back. I wonder why??

Thanks again for all the reply's I will ask the doctor for the vitamin D figures and post them here. I may ask if im being prescribed a high enough dose as I am not seeing my usual doctor. I may also ask for another blood test to check all my vitamin levels. They should be ok as the supplements I take for neuropathy contain most of the vitamins except for vitamin D!!!

Hi Paul I have all the symptoms of neuropathy. Numbness/altered sensations on face/back arms and legs. I also have tingling in hands and feet. I have had various tests/brain scan/emg etc and they all came out showing no problem except the emg which showed borderline axonopathy 6 months ago but that has cleared up when I had the last test on 11th April 08. I will post the vitamin levels when I get them this afternoon.
I live in london,UK and I don't get enough sun exporsure I think as when the neuropathy is bad I don't really like going out...

Vitamin D levels
 

Just to let you know that my vitamin D levels are <18 nmol/l the doctor has raised my tablets to 800iu a day...

Hi there I have just been reading up about fibromyalgia and I do get sore spots/sensitive spots on my arms/torso and also leg twitching...

Hi MrsD I have got my results and my levels are extremely low... 18 nmol/l I have read on a few sites that low vitamin D level can give PN like symptoms but not many sites state this. Do you think there is any chance of PN being caused by low levels? What other chemical processes are affected by low vitamin D? I heard dopamine can be affected...?

some sites to look at:
 

The Vitamin Council is one. Just Google that phrase and it will come up easily.

Also Dr. Mercola.
(I don't like the cod liver oil he recommends, however.) But his data
is pretty good and he explains the testing in detail.

I really can't comment on the PN connection. It might just reflect poor calcium use in
the body.

Mark, I can identify in many ways.
 

about 15 months ago I was diagnosed with Hashimotos' thyroid after being hypothryroid for well over a decade. BUT, in my case I knew that my almost ZIP VitD #'s were due to some medications I was on. Anti-seizure and also estrogen blockers - which all deplete a lot of what seems just about everything. [I'd had neuropathy for over 4 years]
Mrs D's advice has been enormously helpful in guiding me to find and tailor my own calcium/Vitamin D/magnesium trio in a way that is working and balanced.
As for a 'D' deficiency being the cause of PN? I do not recall reading anything research-wise in that area. Being low on it certainly doesn't make things any better as it's needed to keep your body on overall balance in terms of processing foods, minerals, vitamins etc. Getting those specific #'s up to somewhere 'right' [not necessarily what is minimal or maximum] for you is your key. It's one of lots of trial and error tho.
That your EMG's showed little? I have to ask - was the testing room COLD? The temperature of your skin and body during such tests can affect the results - not to mention the quality of the testing equipment and the test administrator.
Here is an article that explains this issue: http://www.onecallmedical.com/PDFs/E...0ISSUE%205.pdf So, being WARM during a nerve conduction test and not the usual icy cold our extremities tend to get is a very important thing in the testing. I am promising myself that the next time I get a Nerve Test, I'm bringing a snug wrap and a hair dryer to thaw out the key appendages!
Most important of all, is not the 'cause' of a neuropathy - it's what's happened to your body in response to whatever cause[s]. Then further what CAN be DONE about it. Any doc that says 'neurontin' or nothing? Is NOT a PROFESSIONAL. PERIOD! There are many other options that address the hundred different sorts of neuropathies - some [maybe many{?}] can/might heal/ease pain to some degree. Each of us is so different in what's happened to us that to find out what all has happened and find common aspects would be beyond mind-boggling.
Keep searching and don't give up. We all won't admit it, but I bet I'm not the ONLY one who's stayed up nights and churned all days thinking about the WHAT's CAUSED THIS!? While I have a good idea about myself? I'm not gonna admit it out loud to docs or anyone my thoughts because there is nothing of substance [medically] other than instinct to prove the cause/effects of it all. It WAS however, my self-instinct that made me persue what was going on and get eventually treatment that I should have had from the get-go. Hindsight tho, doesn't change the 'What-Is-Now' and that aspect is what you must work on NOW. So do not give up as long as you can.
I Wish I could help even more? But there are limits in this world. So here! :hug: - j

I know it is frustrating to not have a cause because I am there with you. Consider asking your doc about fibro. I heard from mine that the treatment would be different. Also I agree my magnesium is my favorite supplement. I take glycinate form. I also feel the role of calcium and d as a person with osteo is key. I am assuming you are a guy but did you have a bone density?Can't one just get pn without it being from something or is this not true? I thought a lot of people with age have it. Obviously in my case that is not it. Lastly my first emg/nc showed nothing then I went back and had another plus an ssep and it showed the pn. Not sure if it was too early to show or if the person doing the test was off. Who knows.Hang in there.

The other thing I don't think anybody's mentioned yet--
 

--have your been tested for cleiac disease/gluten sensitivity?

Often one of the first signs of this is malabsorption of vitamins/nutrients resulting in low serum levels--B12, D, B6, folate.

Moreover, celiac/gluten can cause neuropathy through autoimmune cross-reactivity all by itself.

Have you at least been titred up for anti-gliadin IgA/IgG (latter is lest specific but most sensitive), anti-transglutaminase IgA (more specific), and total IgA (as low levels can skew the other IgA tests)?

This got my attention:
http://www.miamiherald.com/tropical_...ry/503619.html


Article says that at least half of all Americans have insufficients levels of Vitamin D.

This article (or perhaps it was one that was along side it in the printed version) stated that US doctors are actually seeing children with Rickets.

I can tell you this much...
 

I was experiencing pain in the joint of my big toe, both left and right foot....in the ball of the foot - *that* joint. I started taking Vit - D because of other considerations but a side effect for me was that that pain went away. If I stop the D it comes back. :)

I found this and maybe someone else posted but I thought I would again.

Is Vitamin D Insufficiency Associated With Peripheral Neuropathy?

CME Review Article #30

Endocrinologist. 17(6):319-325, November/December 2007.
Carlson, Amanda N. MD *; Kenny, Anne M. MD +
Abstract:
The effects of vitamin D on calcium and phosphate metabolism and bone formation are well studied. For many years, it was thought that the importance of vitamin D was confined to these roles, and the study of this hormone's activity in other tissues was neglected. In recent years, however, there has been a renewed interest among researchers in identifying other target organs for vitamin D, such as the central nervous system. Increasingly, it appears that vitamin D plays a role in nerve growth and maintenance and may have important pharmaceutical applications for treatment of neurodegenerative conditions. This review focuses on our growing understanding of the biology of vitamin D in the brain and the potential pathophysiologic and therapeutic relationships that exist between vitamin D and neuronal dysfunction.

(C) 2007 Lippincott Williams & Wilkins, Inc.

Hi thanks for all the replys,its early days yet but I swear the neuropathy is lessening,but maybe im having a few good days,I will mention the gluten test next time I see the doctor. Thanks again Mark

Quick follow up
 

Hi all, I haven't had much time to post this year but just to let you all know that since taking vitamin d supplements the neuropathy 'seems' to be subsideing... not sure if it's just a lull or whether the severe lack of vitamin d was playing some sort of role in the neuropathy. I am hoping that maybe this info will be of use to others...

That's wonderful news! And something we all like to hear. Congrats! :)

low D
 

means low calcium absorption. Low calcium leads to paresthesias and
it might seem like PN.

Hi there ,when I was taking calcium and Magnesium supplements last year they made all the symptoms much worse, it seems to be pieceing together that vitamin D may be playing a role in it,if you don't have vitamin D does that mean that calcium does not get absorbed and instead goes somewhere else? Does paresthesias cause some sort of axonopathy because my EMG showed that I have some sort of axonopathy...

Thanks jarrett, how are you doing?

low D
 

Means that the body will start robbing the bones for calcium.
Typically the system that does this is the parathyroid glands.
They may become overstimulated and create a secondary hyperparathyroidism.
This actually raises serum calcium in many cases.
But hypocalcemia may occur too. It can be very complicated.

Correcting Vit D usually corrects this.

When calcium and magnesium go out of balance, and there is too much calcium or too little, paraesthesias occur.

http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic1118.htm
for hypocalcemia

Not all calcium is aborbed from the GI tract even under ideal conditions.
About 60% is eliminated in the feces.

When I sit and think about where I was a year ago... I'm doing really well. And since I quit smoking I've had a huge change in the symptom of burning in the feet. It would seem that many of my symptoms were being caused by smoking. Imagine that. :rolleyes: Though if one googles they won't find anything definitive linking smoking to PN. But common sense would dictate it must if PN can be caused by chemical exposures. Look at the list of chemicals contained in cigarettes!

Thanks for the info MRSD ,do you know by any chance if vitamin affects dopamine and whether a lack of d means a lack of dopamine in the brain?