have race relationships improved in the world?
 

i think some need to discuss their feelings here

..............No.

Will you change your mind Kathy if Obama wins?

there were few if any black senators 50 years ago so why be so negative?

post edited as against neurotalk's guidelines which can be found here
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?t=1293

I dont see anyone being negative on this thread (yet) clouds:confused:

however, rest assured, it too will be immediately locked if it starts to take *any* negative turns

we have guidelines here and they call for LIMITED political discussion and respectful posting between members.
that is why the last thread got locked, as well as because it was taken way off the original topic.
Starting a new thread to continue to rehash what was on a locked one is not ok.

if you wish to discuss the question you asked on race relations without turning this totally political, we will allow it.
If it turns it will be closed.

we really have been very relaxed on this guidelines, understanding the current political climate .........but it is going to be up to members as to where we go from here.

thanks for everyone's co-operation

since you deleted that people can pm me for that link then

i wonder if i can post this depressing news story dont read it if you are easliy depressed

im just disgusted at how people behave

anyway its one reason im depressed so much lately i guess

its not just blacks and mexicans that get bad treatment


http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/l...ry/271908.html

What are the marks of a sick culture?

It is a bad sign when the people of a country stop identifying themselves with the country and start identifying with a group. A racial group. Or a religion. Or a language. Anything, as long as it isn't the whole population.

A very bad sign. Particularism. It was once considered a Spanish vice but any country can fall sick with it. Dominance of males over females seems to be one of the symptoms.

Before a revolution can take place, the population must loose faith in both the police and the courts.

High taxation is important and so is inflation of the currency and the ratio of the productive to those on the public payroll. But that's old hat; everybody knows that a country is on the skids when its income and outgo get out of balance and stay that way - even though there are always endless attempts to wish it way by legislation. But I started looking for little signs and what some call silly-season symptoms.

I want to mention one of the obvious symptoms: Violence. Muggings. Sniping. Arson. Bombing. Terrorism of any sort. Riots of course - but I suspect that little incidents of violence, pecking way at people day after day, damage a culture even more than riots that flare up and then die down. Oh, conscription and slavery and arbitrary compulsion of all sorts and imprisonment without bail and without speedy trial - but those things are obvious; all the histories list them.

I think you have missed the most alarming symptom of all. This one I shall tell you. But go back and search for it. Examine it. Sick cultures show a complex of symptoms as you have named... But a dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than a riot.

This symptom is especially serious in that an individual displaying it never thinks of it as a sign of ill health but as proof of his/her strength. Look for it. Study it. It is too late to save this culture - this worldwide culture, not just the freak show here in California. Therefore we must now prepare the monasteries for the coming Dark Age. Electronic records are too fragile; we must again have books, of stable inks and resistant paper.
--- Friday and Dr. Baldwin in Friday

http://patrifriedman.com/quotes/heinlein.html

I don't think that race relations in the U.S. have improved as much as some/many wish to believe there have been improvements. Have relations improved in the world? I don't think so.

During the Holocaust, what happened when the Red Cross visited "camps"? A facade was presented and accepted. (Don't take my word for it. Please read: "I Never Saw Another Butterfly.")

If relations have improved, there would be no genocide, selective starvation, etc.

Just my take. I have a bi-racial or multi-cultural family. It's alarming to me when I hear some of the comments from younger relatives. I probably shouldn't get into that, however, since I'm not sure how much we may state without something being mistaken as a flame.

Great is the day when times evolve with something expressed by MLK: Judge someone not by the color of skin but by content of character (and I am paraphrasing). Bridging from what MLK stated: Character is evidenced not by when there may be witnesses but that which is done in solitude or acts no one else may ever recount. It's taking a stand and one that is right and ethical... even when no one else may be watching or be aware. (It's what each person knows that counts and makes a difference or suggests indifference.)

Can relations improve? Yessss.

But, I don't think we're there yet - worldwide, as the question asks. :(:o:(

On Monday, Wright criticized the U.S. government as imperialist and stood by his suggestion that the United States invented the HIV virus as a means of genocide against minorities. "Based on this Tuskegee experiment and based on what has happened to Africans in this country, I believe our government is capable of doing anything," he said.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24371827



on this i think he could be wright or right or at least it could sort of be true in a way

they did do the tuskeggee thing in the past

some things i guess we agree on

then theres the friction between mexicans and blacks in los angelos and i think its sick-i feel the blacks are getting the short end of things-they used to run all the auto body shops and now the illegals have moved in and taken their business

What, to me, seems a shame about the Rev. W. is that a great deal of "spin" has been placed on his words - and, having listened to his entire speech or presentation before the press people a couple mornings ago: He made some rather profound points that I wish would not be buried or lost during all the campaign hoopla-la. But, that is what is happening and, now, Obama has publicly divorced Rev. W. :(.

Meanwhile, I don't think that B.O needed offer apologies for anything. What'd the man do wrong? Nothing, in my view.

One day, maybe, Rev. W.'s presentation will be reviewed and understood... with historical context. I hope.

I just feel, now, in the days following: Was I hearing something totally different than the pundits? I doubt it. Did I somehow miss the messages? I don't think so. Just what I heard didn't have spin. That doesn't draw ratings.

I suspect, these days, everything just has to be so PC or a person doesn't stand a chance. :(

i dont like how bush and clinton used depleted uranoium in war and i wonder how obama feels on that and mccain if he likes it

rev wright i bet hates that and that we can agree on i think

why should we use depleted uraium?

I think it's when a Pres. becomes "emeritus," more of the heartfelt beliefs surface - either via the former Pres. (journals, letters, diaries) or offspring and pennings.

And... many wonder what drives people away from public service? No-brainer.

Pick to the bone and it cuts to the core.

I've been avoiding this thread topic thru the previous one but decided to just pop on in. My Father is caucasian my mother is German (but considered Black German-which looks more Italian) I am mistaken for being Latin ALL the time..and my husband is Arabic (also mistaken for Latino) We have lived and travelled all over the world and honestly outside of the US have never experienced any kind of racial issues, we have been welcomed warmly wherever we have gone. The only ugly things that have ever been said to either of us have happened right here at home with two black men calling my husband Osama and two white men calling him a derogatory Latin name. We live in an area with all races many white,many black,many latin,many asian and for the most part everyone is very respectful of everyone regardless of color. I think the biggest question is not about race relations but about racial ignorance because after all racism is only a different word for ignorance and fear!

It would have been nice if Rev. Wright could have left it with his Moyers interview and the NAACP speech. He should have known the general public would not have understood his public performance at the press conference or see the difference between his platform and Obama's platform. He should have known they would all tune out and blame it on Obama. Wright's message got lost when he made it all about him instead of the people he was supposedly speaking on behalf in this country. I'm so disappointed with the media. It's as if they are too sensitive, stubborn, or hateful to listen to the content of what was said.

I agree with you Bobbi. When all this dies down, I hope someone has the courage to go back and re-examine everything that was said. It would be so nice to see an open, honest, and sincere dialogue on race relations in this country. I'd rather not place this burden on Obama because he's already got enough on his plate. It would be so nice to see some healing take place and to see us ALL work towards a happy medium. If not, I suspect the hatred and violence will only escalate.

One talking point that was interesting to me was about "Revenge" - i.e., God does not bless acts of terrorism OR revenge. I've always believed that too because revenge goes against a line in a very important prayer - i.e., "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." But that's not only why I believe revenge is wrong. I see how it is played out on the streets of Chicago here with our gangs. It's a never-ending vicious circle, and only leads to death and destruction. "Thou shalt not kill" happens to be a commandment, not a suggestion. Regardless of the color you are wearing, it is never honorable to kill or attempt to destroy another human being.

I don't think that the leaders need to save us. I think that we need to save ourselves. I think that Obama can lead us to come together and solve our problems together instead of being all divided across so many divisions. Obama has pulled together so many volunteers. We all have to be involved in our communities and our communities are many - our immediate and extended families, our schools, our cities, our states, the USA and the world at large. If we work together in each of these communities the world would be an awesome place at all levels. Currently we elect our leaders and then go back to our own business and hope that things work out. I want to be involved and am..... Going back to the topic of this thread, if we come together and agree to stay together and work out the issues - this means staying together and not running off and getting all mad - then we will be able to listen to each other and come to some compromise and understanding. If we do this then true healing can take place and we can move forward.

please everyone re-read chamar's post. also read the guidlines.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/homi...men-as-vi.html

i think its sick how blacks are being killed by latinos in la and i predict riots there soon

im white and part american indian,and ive also heard mexicans dont like indians but they may be just a rumuor, maybe some dont

i have met indians from mexico that were very nice people and i had no problem with them

mexcio is less united i think than our mixed up usa

http://www.theterryandersonshow.com/

Again, if we could only come together instead of finding new ways to divide ourselves....

i sort of liked the black panthers at times -others times maybe they were nuts ,but they would feed white kids as well as black poor kids in their breakfast programs

the mexicans lately some have this la raza thing which means "our race"some are just out for themselves

I liked what Rev. Wright had to say about being different....different does NOT mean deficient. :)

I think a lot of people are afraid of others who are different, but it's not just about fear of that person or mere hatred of skin color. It's fear of losing what they have and fear of having their space invaded. I think that is when the division starts. That is when people form into groups, and that is when wars begin - with both sides claiming to have God on their side. :rolleyes:

When we start to lose what we have and/or our space becomes invaded, we begin to look at others who are different as deficient. This justifies treating fellow human beings like animals and taking whatever we need from them. In an attempt to protect our belongings, we lose our humanity. Historically, we have always viewed people of color to be deficient. When we need something, we take from them - regardless of their suffering. :o

This justified the Tuskeegee experiment - researchers believed white Americans were more important than black Americans as human beings. This justifies the attempted genocide of American Indians that continues to this day. This justifies "slave labor" both here (migrant workers) and throughout the world - as if people of color were placed on the earth to serve us. This also justifies our "war on terror" and invasion of Iraq. :(

Hi Clouds and Kathy. Clouds I like how you found something positive about the Black Panthers! Everyone has positive attributes but most of us are better at seeing the negative then the positive! I just watched Obama's rebuttal to Wright and he still addressed his positives along with condemning. We are all like this. We all have negatives and positives. We all need to be seen as a whole package not just our parts. I think that if you keep looking you will see the positives with Mexicans. Here in Kentucky our horse industry could not function without them. Everytime that I eat my fruits and vegies I remember who picked them. They have wonderful close knit families and they could teach a lot of Americans about this. Finally, they could teach us a lot about healthy eating. They are one of the few groups in the grocery store who have a cart full of real food (I don't know if the 2nd or 3rd generations still eat well, though).

Kathy I agree with you totally. We divide ourselves because of the goodies that we want to keep for ourselves/our group.

And all of this change starts with ourselves. If we live our lives trying to connect with others at all levels we become a part of the solution. And this means connecting with those that we disagree with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskege...the_Negro_Male

blacks were the doctors too? nixon stopped it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor..._United_States

other stuff done on all races i guess and there was shad exp of nevre gas i think on navy ships


google shad eperiments

http://www.theterryandersonshow.com/

black guy discusses la life

Hi Clouds, I actually don't spend a lot of time delving into negative stuff. I like to spend my time on answers.....

It all comes down to the Golden Rule......Treat others as you wish to be treated.

And from the bible-love thy neighbor,the poor,the sick and the meek.

And The big one, Judge not lest ye be judged.

All boils down to that basically.

The thing that is hopeful to me is talking with white-ish people around 15-25 who grew up in mixed neighbourhoods, on mixed schools, racewise, in big cities. They talk about each other, mix with each other, without ever referring to race or skin-colour. They do things together with the one that likes the same subject, they dislike somebody because the person is aggressive or just plain boring, etc. You can hear them talking about a mutual acquaintance, several times, and when you finally clap eyes on the person the only thing you did not know is that the person is black. They do sometimes report on someone being from a specific culture in the context of getting married off or something, which they feel sorry for. I noticed the same attitude in an MBA course for ITC.

These young people are truly colourblind, and there is a lot of them, so take heart.

For me, the best approach that has worked is: Let go. I cannot and do not wish to impose my beliefs on others. Acceptance is key. I don't have to agree with all things my friends hold near and dear, and they don't have to mirror my "stuff."

In the larger picture: How much of things impact my life directly, and must all know about everything. I don't think so.

What's that saying or dogma? Choose one's battle's wisely.

I dig my heels in when I feel it can make a diff. Other than that? Live and let live.

sometimes i think they are better, but got to admit, things seem to be separating.

I grew up in a racial enviroment and vowed never to be that way with my children.

I admired Dr. King, and his words still echo in my head.

My kids have not know racial slander or stereo typing till they were taught it(from tv). both of my boys first and best friends for many years till one moved and one went to a diff school dist were both african american children, then one day at school something happened and the two came home asking me what is this and what is that.

so now what do I do, as a single parent I didnt have another to help me on this and i was at a lost on how to handle this. It happen to be feb when this happen and I did my best to see if I could find a show or two about the freedom marches and how everyone was treated for thinking the way they thought or because of the color of their skin. needless to say my two kids were floored and freaked out that people treated each other like this(yes this was my fault for not showing them this sooner but must admit they were around maybe 8 and 9 if i am correct, when this happened) , and to this date my kids(including debs 3 boys) are and I am proud to say unbias as to skin color, they have friends from all diff races and creeds, so I think Deb and myself did our part Dr King, just wish you were still here, sometimes i fear your message, has been lost,