Loss of Siblings
 

:confused: Hi I'm Jan and new to this forum. Hopefully I can get some answers, information, or just someone to talk to.

My parents are both deceased from other health reasons, but had both attempted suicide in the past. My older brother supposedly shot himself in the head I think in 1982. My younger sister shot herself in the head 2yrs ago.
Now I have no living relatives. I'm sure everone has gone through the "what ifs", "if I had only listened better", "why didn't I know the signs", "if I had only been there", and on & on. But of course no ones knows what went on in their loved one's last thought.

I talk to Doug & Cindy (brother & sister) often and cry each time I do. I don't guess the hurt & tears will ever end when they come up. One of my problems though is that I can't remember their dates of death, even my parent's. I always remember their birthdays but not even the exact year of each one's passing away. This is true even for my kitty cats. I know this is not normal, but can anyone suggest or know the reason.

((catluver)) I'm just shocked at the losses you have suffered. You have come to a good place. There are a lot of nice people here.

After those losses, I wouldn't be surprised at all at how your mind functions!

I just want you to know how sorry I am for what you have gone through and I hope Alffe or someone else here comes along soon. I am at work and have a meeting to go to.

Please come back and talk more. :hug:

catluvr,

One big, warm, tight, hug, handshake and howdy, moose-size official type welcome to the site.

I am so sorry for your losses. And I'm very proud of you for hanging in there.
I hope you are seeking help for the pain from all this with a good doc/meds/therapist. As far as your question goes, I think you may be blocking the information on the dates intentionally or even subconciously. (I have done the same thing with traumatic events in my life).

I know keeping a daily journal/diary helps in so many ways. Not just with recovered memories but 'sorting it all out'. Please keep posting and please keep in mind that;

You are not alone:)
You are one of us.:hug:
And we are here to help.:grouphug:

catluvr :hug: :hug: :hug: .sorry to hear of your losses... big ones :hug:.
I am proud and glad to hear that you have hung in and that you found your way here to neuro.
I would think that since most times a person usualy celebrates a birthday year after year that birthdays are trained into ones memory much like the holidays and heck xmas is pasted all over to remind us. but the exact day and year one passes on, be it suicide or from illness , natural causes ...
it throws a hard fast curve ball at you and the loss is felt all year threw ...by you not by the whole world like a holiday or birthday that friends and co workers would share the mood along with you. so you have many reasons to not recall the exact year and day. You can always ask and write it down or find a way that you can memorialize it like a tree with a stone by it that has the date. I dont think it is that "unusual " to forget the exact year and day
of ones death but that is just my opinion.So much gets into your mind when a loss happens like that i dont think it unusual at all really. I hope you are able to get to the proper support and help for your pain to get threw this. and...
We hope to get to know you better :grouphug: I send you healing vibs . :hug:
PEACE
BMW

Jan I'm so glad you found your way over here! I agree with what the others have said....you don't want to remember those dates and with good reason. Doug and Cindy made awful choices.

I have absolutely no memory of our son's funeral and the only reason I am able to remember the date is because it's in his obituary pasted in the two scrapebooks I made of his life. How can a whole 31 yrs. fit in two scrapbooks?

You've been left with an awful legacy and no one to really share it with. I am so sorry. :hug: That's why we are here....to talk about the pain we are feeling...the depression and the anger. And there is always the WHY? Not to mention GUILT.

Have you ever gone to a support group? Have you read any of the stickies at the top of this forum? I'm glad you have found us Jan. :hug:

Thanks for your input Alffe. I have tried the only support group in this area. I was disappointed because the members had lost children. I had much sympathy for each and every one of them but I didn't fit in because my loss was a brother & sister. I did not feel validated in my feelings of loss because I had not lost a child and that is only what the discussions were about. The group facilator was very nice & tried to be empathic but she, too, had lost her son and did not know how to react to my situation. She has been helpful though by sending me email whenever she reads anything about sibling survivors.

Doody, I sometimes wonder how I function too. The loss of my family affects me in so many areas. The antidepressants help me to hang in there.

It sounds like you attended a Compassonate Friends meeting Jan, and yes, they are wonderful for those who lost a child in anyway OTHER than suicide.
I made the mistake of attending one of those before we had a Survivors support group here in our town. I left sobbing because hearing their stories about holding, tending, and nursing their loved ones only added to my guilt.
My son died alone. A Survivors Support group is filled with those of us who have been left behind after someone we love kills themselves.

I have an ever growing library of books about suicide and get a wonderful news letter from Wisc. filled with articles and stories of other who live this nightmare. We, none of us, chose to be survivors but we're stuck with it.

Are you married? Children? I'm asking because I am hoping you have some hands-on support...some warm hugs..etc in your daily life. We have a plentiful supply here but there is no substitute for the real thing. :grouphug:

I'm at work so I can't type much but I just wanted to say I'm so sorry about your brother and sister Jan. I lost a brother to suicide and I feel your pain :hug:

hi catluver,

I cannot ever remember my father's death anniversary neither but always remember his birthday. I think what you are doing is probably "self-defense" or as some would say, a defense mechanism. But then again, I could be waaaay off like I always am.

I cannot add more to what the fine people have said here. I think you'll find a lot of support here. Even at times when you don't want to talk, I think just reading here will/might help you find some comfort. And sometimes, if you just need to vent without any replies, I think people will respect your wish and just let you vent.

anyways, welcome. :hug:

Alffe, I'm not sure if I am replying in the correct box but I'll try anyway.

I was married briefly several years ago but had no children. I was in the Navy and they were my "family", never thinking that would end. I am not completely alone though. I have a friend that we have maintained an on again/off again relationship for about 22yrs. I am in a wheelchair right now due to chronic pain in my lower back, rt hip & thigh. He is staying with me to help out for a while. I am scheduled for surgery next Wednesday (14th). Hopefully I will get some relief after this surgery so he can go back home.

He is not a very emotional person and doesn't like me to talk about my family because it makes me cry. So no, I don't get the warm hugs I would dearly love to have. I'm glad I found this site because everyone seems so compassionate and supportive. You will probably be hearing alot from me.

Maybe I am using my loss of memory as a defense mechanism - makes sense to me. Thank you for welcoming me here. I look forward to meeting some supportive friends.

(((Jan)))

You sound like an extraordinary woman and I must say, I'm so impressed with your way with words.

I'm not at all surprised at you not being able to remember the dates...though I do remember when my sister died, December 15, 1986. Forever stuck in my brain. Probably because it was so close to Christmas and well...I don't remember a lot of things but that one I do for some reason. Why would we remember a day of such tragedy? Our minds probably just can't handle it. We don't want to remember that day.

As others said, birthdays are something we don't usually forget having celebrated those days. Celebration days, not days of sadness and mourning. Although I admit, I only now (at the age of almost 59) remember that my dad's birthday is April 8 and not April 7. For YEARS I could never remember for good grief!

I'm so very sorry you don't have more family to turn to. And I'm very glad you have a friend helping you right now. That means a lot. I SO wish, and more often nowadays, that I had someone to just take care of me. I'm so tired of doing it myself. *stomps my feet...don't wanna.

Does your name imply that you not only love cats but have some cat companions? I love my cats too, and now have a precious dog that was rescued from a puppy mill. Don't know what I would do without them.

Please lean on the people here all that you can bear to do. NeuroTalk in general is such a caring community, not the lease of which is this SOS forum. There are some long time survivors here, and short timers as well, and my heart goes out to each and every one of them.

You sound strong, Jan. Share with others and find a group such as Alffe has mentioned. Try to find strength in your spiritual beliefs.

I know our lost loved ones left a lot of pain behind here on this earth. But, I am convinced that those who have left are on their way to healing and in a better place (for them).

And please let us know how your procedure goes. Hugs, love and prayers for you.

No, you're not ever going to feel alone again now that you've joined this family...:hug: And why are so many men like your friend!! They are afraid of their feelings...just can't handle it....I always think of Ray on Everybody Loves Raymond because he is so typical. If they could only figure out that we women are attracted to men who are in touch with their feelings....well, I digress! *grin

I tracked you down on the spinal forum and read that you are getting a spinal cord stimulator on the 14th. I pray this is the solution to all your pain...gee that's just a week from today. :hug:

:o Oh yes, I think I have found a new "family". I have never felt so welcome anywhere. I can't understand this friend of mine either. Sometimes I need a shoulder to cry on or just some one to listen; not watch TV and make a comment here & there. He has been with me for my mother's & sister's deaths; all he has to say is "Well, you didn't get along with them anyway.". Of course any family has their ups & downs but there is always that bond. He has lost his grandparents - both of which I went to Ohio with him to be with his family. I wonder how he is going to handle the loss of anyone close in his family. I pray it won't happen but his mom is 75yrs old and won't last forever. Of course I will be there for him; I can't stand to see someone hurting.

As for the spinal cord stimulator, I am nervous, anxious, and just plain scared but if it can take away some of this pain it will all be worth it. Please keep me in your prayers. Thanks

Thanks Doody. I do believe I will find the support I have been craving for so long in this forum. I do have strong spiritual beliefs, which I couldn't do without. I know that's what has helped me along the way in all areas of my life.

Yes, I do believe our loved ones have gone to a better place where there are no more tears. I think they are up there enjoying each other both young & old. And I believe they are also playing with my kitty cats that I have lost along the years. I do have one furry friend, my kitty - Jessie. She is spoiled, finicky, and has her own personality & attitude. But when it comes time for bed she is right there with me and I forget all her shenanigans of the day. I applaud you for rescuing your precious dog from the gosh awful puppy mill.

Thank you again for your kind words.

I think I'll call your friend Mr.Sensitivity! :rolleyes: Or maybe Mr.Mouth! :D
I don't blame you a bit for being anxious about your coming surgery..I'll pray that your surgeon has "miracle hands". Pretty exciting to anticipate the absence of pain....:hug:

And I think you and I have a lot in common..I can't stand to see anyone hurting either. :grouphug:

hi catluvr http://dl6.glitter-graphics.net/pub/...ljx5fo3wzl.gif

i'm a bit late in replying. sorry. but welcome to our wonderful family here. :hug:

i haven't lost a sibling to suicide, but a dear brother to cancer.

dates don't always stick in my mind. not about the sad stuff. i can remember dates of good memories. might just be june of 78...but it has special meaning to me. i think i block out the date he died. year after year..it's like..oh...the "anniversary" was yesterday. :o

losing a sibling, no matter how, is something that is never expected. ifyou are younger, they had ALWAYS been there and you think they always will. no memories without them.

we all know somewhere in our minds that we will lose our grandparents and parents...but brothers and sisters...it's different. the bond is different. we share stuff our parents never knew. :D ( and i ain't telling!)

it can be hard talking about these things. we are a good group of listeners. i'm a yappy one...so if you don't feel like sharing..i'm sure i can give you plenty to read. :wink: that is a good healing too.

just know we are here. my pm box is always open. i'm glad you found us.

:hug:

Catluvr :hug:
I havent read every reply here on this thread . but I did see you are to have a spine stimulator surgery soon. I wanted to share with you that I have a very very simiular stimulator implanted for my face pain a.k.a. anesthesia dolorsa.
I have had it for five years and it has given me part of my life back.
If you need or want to talk about that please feel free to throw your worries and wonders my way or just right here and we will help. :grouphug:
when are you having your surgery?? guess i should read the replies here it probly says.
hope you have a sun shining day ;) keeping you in my prayers and thoughts.
Peace
BMW

Hello to Catluver (and everyone else),

I am new to this forum as well. I think (like Catluver) that I have found a new home among friends here.

I stopped in to read the post just to see if I fit in with anyone. I, too, have that problem with my pain, both physical and emotional. Their responses to you have been so heartwarming to me just reading them.

YOu must be an amazing person! I feel it a priviledge to become aquainted with you here. I admire your strength.

I had my low back all fused together in 2000 and was at the point of being wheelchair bound myself. While I am not 100 %, it certainly beats where I was before surgery. At least now, I have my pain under reasonable conrtol with meds. Before, nothing helped at all. I still have those days that I need to stay down but that is still an improvement. I hope and will be praying that your surgery gives you the much needed relief.

You know, I realize everyone handles their grief differntly and you have had an over abundance of loss and no one should feel like you are not intitled to be sad and/or cry. I lost my sister, only 54 years old, 2/20/07. It was a massive heart attack and to this day I still try to figure out what else could have happened. What did I miss when talking to her earlier in the day, etc., etc. So happens, my granddaughter's birthday is the same day my sister passed away. We do not live in the same state but were very close. I do not know when the pain is supposed to stop. Sometimes, I think I am the only one that is hanging on to this like I am and others are able to let it go. But, I see that is not the case. Of course, for you, there was and is so much loss.

I want to thank you for sharing your self with us, especially me. I know its not always easy. After trying the support group and feeling like you did, it had to be more difficult to reach out again for fear of the same thing happening again. I know that is how I would react. But then, I am very bashful when it comes to the outside world. You would not guess that from my post but its true. The computer has been a blessing to me to be in touch with others.

May I suggest a book? No, I am not selling anything! I just came across this lady on a Christian talk radio program one day and I was really in a low place. It was as if she was talking specifically about and to me. I know it was the Lord working because I have wrestled with the issue of maybe my family would be better without me. I have had the back surgery, then neck and then diagnosed with MS. So it can be a big expense, etc for them. I was trying to tend to my Dad in a nursing home as well as I could too, and really did not feel like I was much use to anyone. This book, along with a wonderful Christian councelor has helped me. I realize it is different for all of us but really wanted to mention this book. Its called "Meet me at the well" and it is written by Virelle Kidder. She also has a daughter that battles mental illness and she has some type of chronic illness herself. So I did not feel like I was reading something by someone that really had no idea where I was at in my life. I have bought more copies of it to share with my daughter and others. I have got it at a really good price on Amazon. I buy used books there often and they appear new.

Sorry for such a long post. Please let us know how your surgery goes. And I am so glad to see so many caring people. Yall have inspired me! thank you, all of you here.

Hi gamgam and welcome to NeuroTalk and to our little corner of this world.
That book sounds wonderful...I may order it myself. I think you have had a lot on your plate...back surgery, chronic pain, MS...:grouphug: And 54 is way too young to lose a sister...I'm sorry. I lost a brother to cancer but am blessed with two wonderful sisters.

Grieving our losses can be a long lonely road. That's what our forum family is about...holding each other up and learning to survive without them. I'm glad you're here. :grouphug:

Thank you. I hope I did not scare people off with my way too long post! You are right about it being lonely. I would have never thought it would be this way.

me either gamgam. my brother and i were close in age. he was in his 30's. our siblings are older than us. we always thought we would be together forever. watching them grow old. :wink: a hard year for me was when i got older than him. strange huh?

ty for the tip on the book. :hug:

welcome.

Oh Curious, I hadn't brought that up with anyone because I was afraid they would think (again) that I was just dwelling on my loss too much. My older brother was 32yrs old when he left and realizing that I am much older now is another phase we must go through. Tough one though.:(

You're so right in that our grieving is a long lonely road. I don't know if you have ever dealt with someone suffering from chronic pain but it much similar. The friends I once had have been long gone since I haven't "gotten well". As if I had a choice in either situation.

yep sweets. tough.

i still "talk" to my brother. we had a very loving and teasing relationship.

i spent his last days on his bed with him. he wouldn't let me leave. the stinker charged me money just to go potty! told me he was going to take it with him. :D i was holding him when he passed.

now is younger than me.

hold on to all the fun memories. all those siblings things. those can never be taken from you. heck..i even laugh about when he smacked on the back of the head after oral surgery. wasn't funny then, but now it showed his typical brother side. smack..tease and RUN!

i'm a big believer is talking about the ones i've lost. sharing them with others. it keep a part of them alive in others.

their deaths have caused us pain. whether from illness, suicide or natural causes. but thier lives were who they were, they should never be defined by their death.

We love to have people ask about them...we love to use their names..to remember that they lived and were loved...still are, always will be.

No, I've never loved anyone (well with the exception of all the people on this forum) who lived with chronic pain but I can only assume that you make a choice to survive it...like everything else life serves up for us, it's about what we decide to do with it.

Do we get stronger and stubboner for having to go thru it or do we break from the load? Sometimes we have to make that decision over and over again and that's most definitely the time when you come here and TALK about it.

Hugs for the room. :grouphug:

I’ve never said Mark’s name too much before because I was angry but now every time I say it I can feel his presence. Some nights I lie in bed and could swear I can smell his leather baseball glove. We shared many experiences and memories, bedrooms and chores and family celebrations. We stuck up for and fought one another. We grew up together, sharing many things until death severed our connection.

I have learned that to the normal, suicide is such an irrational, incomprehensible, senseless act that it is hard to believe that someone I loved could have done this. You know that old time movie It’s a Wonderful Life. Jimmy Stewart sees how life would have been if he had never been born. I often wonder that if an angel could have showed Mark his viewing, attended by over 350 people, and the aftermath of his decision, that he would never have done this to himself and his family.

I don’t harbor any guilt in what my brother did, but I do wish there had been something I could have done to ease his pain or to help him get the help he needed. I realize now that nothing I did, or really, nothing that anyone did would have changed his mind. Mark’s pain was so deep that he decided this was his only option to stop the pain.

I’ve done a lot of reading on sibling suicide Jan and there are two books I would highly recommend:

Do They Have Bad Days in Heaven? – Surviving the Loss of a Sibling by Michelle Linn-Gust

An Empty Chair – Living in the Wake of a Sibling’s Suicide by Sara Swan Miller

They say that survivors receive some type of “gift.” I’m still waiting for the gift from losing Mark. I hope you find your gift Jan :hug:

Being able to say Marks name and feeling his presence is real progress BJ.
I've said it before but I'll say it again..I feel that God was right there with our loved ones when they made that choice. I was told that the minister at the funeral service said to Michaels young son...did you ever fall asleep in a room and have your father pick you up and carry you to bed? He nodded yes and the minister said That is what happened to your dad, God picked him up and carried him. ~sigh

If you are lucky enough to have found a church and a Pastor that are supportive and understanding in your grief, you'll heal a lot easier....understand I didn't say quicker. But a church community is made up of people..some just don't get it...don't want to and can't deal with a suicide.
People don't know what to say or do...I'd like to believe they mean well.

I loved what you said about Marks glove! :hug:

gamgam - Don't ever apologize for having a lengthy post. Sometimes mine will be short, sometimes longer but as I was told from the beginning - there are always people who will listen. And I am quickly finding out how true this is.

I am truly sorry for your loss of your sister. I understand how hard it is to speak of her face to face with someone; I am the same way. It took all the courage I had to go out in public to the "Touched by Suicide" group and left early, completely crushed. Not the same with this group, it's like we can talk to others anonymously about our changing emotions without being judged for shedding a tear or two.

Sounds like you have had your share of physical pain as well. I'm glad your back surgery was successful. At least you can get around better and are not wheelchair bound. Thank you for your concern about my surgery next week. I have been confined to a wheelchair for way too long. I laugh when I say I at least want to be able to stand up straight and walk to the bathroom. Of course I expect more from the surgery and it will be successful for me to just have relief from this nagging pain. I will keep you all posted.

Please keep me in your prayers. Thank you.

Alffe, what an insightful way your Pastor had of explaining Michael's death to his son. And your church seems to have a very loving, supportive environment. I have been looking around for a church where I feel like I "belong". Before, when I could get out of the house unassisted, I attended a few different services but just never felt like I could become part of their "family". About 18 months ago I found a little church that I felt good in. I attended Sunday services for about 6 months until I became an invalid; pain in the butt for me and EVERYONE. My Pastor calls, or I will call him, and we have prayer together on the phone. I have only told him that I have no living relatives but thats about al he knows about my past other than the chronic pain. I am afraid of what he and the other church members would say (treat me) if they knew the truth about my brother & sister. I have been told over & over that if you commit suicide you have a straight ticket to Hell. Well that's not in my Bible and I refuse to believe that my family are anywhere other than Heaven. God has blessed me with this unwavering truth but I just don't know if my church will still accept me. I guess if they don't then this is not the church for me. But how do I slip this into a conversation with my Pastor?

Thanks for listening. Any suggestions will be helpful.

Hi BMM!:) I have never heard of the stimulator you have but I am glad it works for you.

Thanks for asking about my surgery. I am having the trial implant done on May 14th - that's next week!!!:D I am quite anxious but hopefull that it will work for me. If it does I will get the permanent implant shortly thereafter. I really hope it is successful because I would like to take control of my life again; not having to depend on others for just about everything not in arm's reach.

Thank you for keeping me in your prayers; one can never have too many. And I too, will keep you in mine.

Good morning Jan, I hope you had a good nights sleep. *grin

Ignorant, fearful people say ignorant things. It's cruel and just plain wrong to judge us but unfortunately some people are so sure of their version of the Bible that their minds are closed on the subject. I had a minister's wife tell me that Michael went straight to hell. :( I don't believe it...I had another minister tell me that there is redemption after death..that was a lot more comforting. Perhaps some day I'll know all the answers for sure.

I'm glad you found a little church that you feel welcome in but I think that you must ask that minister to come for a visit...that you need to talk to him.
(There is that TALK thing again..) People cannot help us if they don't know how we feel...if they don't know our pain and sorrow and it's his chosen misson in this life to care for one of his congregation.

If you decide to do this (after your surgery of course and he should come and visit with you for that reason alone!) you should share with him your fears about being judged rather than comforted. You need help in order to heal....we all do.

I know how difficult it will be to open up about something you have kept hidden for so long but I think you will feel so much better and your load will be a lot lighter.

Well, I need to get a cup of coffee in me....:hug:

me too
 

Gee,what a coincidence. I not only lost two brothers to suicide by gunshot, I survived suicide myself in 1989. I stabbed myself, intending to stab myself in my heart but I missed. Amazingly, I missed every major organ, only nicking my liver (he didn't even stitch it up) (I have a bigger scar from the surgery than from the wound). Sometime I'll tell you about the fount of many blessings I've received, my motto issomeone has to be in need of rescue to enable someone to help. People get kudos and jewels in their crowns for helping people like me...that's my contribution.

Hello vigwig
 

vigwig - We're glad you found this place to talk. You are so welcome here and we're happy to meet you.

I'm so glad you're here vigwig I just a min.ago read your post in the newcomers forum...may I ask you why you didn't mention suicide in your introduction? I know it can be a real conversation stopper but I encourage talking about it because I think it will educate people.

Again...welcome. :)

((vigwig)) it's nice to meet you and welcome.
-----

((Curious)) I'm sorry about your brother and understand. My sister was 30 when diagnosed with cancer and 34 when she died. That last year was very, very, very long as she was so sick the entire year of 1986. Chemo, surgery, radiation. Was awful, and long. I find myself imagining what she would look like now, and I still miss her so much. It really sucks. Certainly changes your entire life, it's never the same. But we just keep moving along, don't we?

Having no siblings after having them just isn't any fun. :hug:

I have had a rotten day; tearful, crying, sobbing at times for no apparent reason. I just couldn't get a grip this morning. I was thinking about all the people who say I am so strong, well you could have blown me over with a feather most of the day.

Someone mentioned on here about a gravesite. You know, there is not one gravesite, memorial or anything solid where I can go to bring flowers, sit and talk, cry, laugh, or whatever with any of my lost family members. The more I think about it the more unnerving it seems. I'm not sure where my dad is buried; he remarried and moved several states away. Then with my brother's tragic end, his wife buried him in an old junk yard not even accessable by road. It was her grandparent's property, no one said she couldn't do it so she did. Our side of the family had no say-so in the matter. My mom wanted to be creamated and travel around with me. She now rests between my two other kitties' cremations high on a shelf in my living room. I do talk, share past stories, laugh, cry with her anytime I want to. Then comes my sister's untimely death. She had said in the past that she wanted her body to be donated to science so she never left the hospital.

Now I am the only one left. I just feel like something is missing in this equation. This situation has crossed my mind many times in the past but usually only one family member at a time. I guess today I have been just a little bit overwhelmed. :confused:

I need a hug!

and some extra kitty hugs