OK folks! I am at research wit's end...
 

Not that researchers ever seem to have much in the way of wits about them!

Today, I just finished a 'round' or 'bout' with the dentist...again. 3 cavities and a crown, added to the 6 cavities last month. Last 5 years I've averaged 3 cavities per year. Less before that. Can anyone clue me in? Is it the meds for the PN or the IVIG or the cancer meds I started a few months ago? There were 4 cavities of the #s above 'hatching' at cancer diagnosis time last year so it isn't exclusively the cancer meds....The dentist [I've been going to for ages] flat out stated: I refuse to look for any more rite now...I'm afraid of what I mite find!

Really, can anti-epliptic meds do THIS much damage? It's seeming to me, that the dental field, neuro field, and med manufacturing field aren't talking to each other...Almost sounds like a '60's 'evil, subversive, plot' for profit.

Yep, guess you could say I'm a bit testy rite now? Thanks! - j

From what I have read either the medicine or the PN could be reducing the amount of saliva in your mouth. Saliva protects the teeth. There are substitutes to saliva, or aides to saliva out there, but I dont know any names. One problem or treatment can often snowball into other problems, which is something we need like a hole in the head.

Can I be testy with ya? Misery loves company.

I just finished replacing my crowns two years ago--all but 4 in my mouth. Eight root canals...yippee....

The meds I'm on dry out my mouth. It's not Sicca Complex. My teeth are decaying under my crowns. I lost a crown three weeks ago while at Mayo-- adding insult to injury...

Enter one dental surgery appointment with all of the Mayo appointments, but schedule it far enough away from the ESI so the anesthesia and steroids don't offset, oh, and the Lazer won't affect either one......

Yupper, guess you could say I'm a bit testy right now too.....

Ain't life grand?
Jan

To Dalek
 

The meds are very drying. I suffer from this anyway and medicine is adding insult to injury. There are saliva substitutes in various brands. The one I use after trying everything to keep from choking at night is Biotene. I use the Biotene Gel at night. I use about a 1/2 an inch of the gel and rub it all over top and bottom teeth with my tongue. Then I swallow a similar amount to moisturize my throat. It works for me. If I have to get up, I repeat. I've got severe Sjogrens and by doing this, I've been cavity free, dental problem free for three years. There are other brands available, I'm just giving you my opinion. Burning is a problem for me and other brands may be fine for you.

Billye

My laser dentist told me to use Trident White, helps with my dry mouth and cavities that it causes. Two years and no new cavitites for me and I carry a water bottle everywhere I go.

I know that Endep [ Amitriptline ] dries out my mouth, i just use sugarless chewing gum to compensate during the day.

chemo
 

is very hard on the teeth. Did you have chemo? I don't recall, sorry.:o

Drugs not only can cause dry mouth, they can change the pH of the saliva,
as well.

Your gums too can suffer, and some nutritional support can help this too.
They recede and expose the unprotected parts of the teeth, and that is where they decay so rapidly. So keeping nutrients up to prevent this gum issue, helps alot.

Some dentists recommend strong fluoride toothpastes, when gums recede.
There are also RX rinses. (Prevident and GelKam).

Vit C, CoQ-10, zinc, vit A, selenium are major players for gum health.

Good questions all...
 

Here's the timetable...PN/CIDP onset 3-1/2 years ago. On same meds for 2 years when cancer diagnosis hit me in the face...at same time as dental-decline-this time last year. Cancer surgery this spring and on a Aramotase Inhibitor [post cancer meds] w/no chemo or rads {YEP I AM VERRRRY lucky!} I'd never had a dry mouth syndrome from meds up till-now? Frankly my problems have been mostly the opposite...so why now? Why in Dec 05 prior to all this other fun stuff? There'd been no changes and in a generally stable 'maintenance-mode' w/one severe IVIG infusion reaction a week before the first dental 'Uh-oh', none since that first 'youre leaching enamel' in 12/05 ThankGOODNESS! Would the AI take 4-6 months to institute dry mouth? When a person goes from 3 mini-cavities a year minis/majors.. Plus a crown replacement to 10, well, ya gotta worry!

Only thing I can think of to connect dots is the cancer combined w/the PN/CIDP and the meds reaching a positive potential effect to a negative one. All pharm X checks indicate all the 'stuff' I'm on in combo is 'safe'. Frankly I don't THINK SO TIM! I'm beginning to think that pharm co.s need to do further tests on LONG TERM effects, especially when folks are on other meds...the 'combo' effect is what I'm suffering from and those guys nor the docs don't want to lissen! I'm doing the Flouridex diligently, but ONLY after my surgery..Who needs extra added influences prior to? And occasionaly a Periogard rinse to keep the 'evils' down [weekly?]. More I think on it all, the more I think that the dominoe effect is, well, dominoe-ing on me? There, That's all out. Thank you all Super People - Super spray will be coming up. Today! And MrsD, I've been trying to take your nutri advice, altho, my scare w/too much B-6 is now averted. Balancing the combo of vites is well, interesting. Thanks and Fuzzies to ALL! - j

Janster - EIGHT RC's? YIKES! My new crown was a replacement as the 'root' had gotten well...you know. Billye - Biotene is must be?!

Up until now I hadn't been connecting dots about my dry mouth. I'm like the Sahara when I wake in the a.m. (or at nite to visit the loo).
Can't ever remember being this dry.
Periodontal problems in the last 10 yrs, first root canal 4 yrs ago (extracted it 1-1/2 yrs later...Duh! waste of $$), exposed roots on my back molars -extractions, on the 'R'-3 bottom/2 top (in the back, can't chew on the 'R') all last molars extracted (impacted), haven't found cavities...... yet !
Had great teeth til PN 10 yrs ago.
Clogged sinuses all my life, no sinus infections - just gotta blow my nosey off allatime & therefore breathe thru my mouth alot when awake.
I realized this must be my dryness a.m. symptom- but never THIS dry.
I gotta moisten my lips alot too.
Is it the Lyrica? Ultram? Zetia? ALA? CoQ10?, Niacin? tobacco?-
all of the above? (please,...don't start on the tobacco- I got enough stress lately, without a lecture on it)
I just never started to connect the dots on the dry mouth, just thunk it wuz sleeping (breathing) with my mouth open. :(

some ideas...
 

1) for dahlek--- Arimidex does cause dry mouth. Once this starts, then the saliva changes, and hence the pH of the mouth changes...and down the hill you go.

2) For Nide (Bob)... receding gums... reveal parts of the tooth that don't have good or any enamel, and hence decay can start more easily.
This is when the Prevident/GelKam may help. Periogard only kills germs, it does
not do anything for loss of enamel or receding gums.
If you have periodontal disease, there is a treatment --low dose doxycycline..called Periostat that may help. This reduces inflammation of the gums. But smoking..this is not good. The oxygen levels are reduced to the
gums when you smoke. It is very hard to counteract this.

3) regarding crowns... I have a couple that are going on 20 yrs now. Can that be true??... oh gosh... 20 yrs doesn't seem like it.
My dentist is very very aggressive about crown installation --and I have to
admit with my 6 crowns now---I suffer greatly when he prepares them.
He puts a "rope" material way under the gums during impressions, and makes the crown go way down there... to be protected from decay. So while it takes me several days or a week of pain/swelling after he is through with me, I have not had alot of decay.Also when the crown is installed, he grinds the interior down..so it is way below the gum line. And he fits them tightly to the other teeth (my crowns are in the back) so food cannot be trapped easily between them. And I should explain that I have very soft teeth, and fillings you wouldn't believe. But adult decay..I do not have, yet!. (we have fluorodated water now--and maybe that is another reason?).

There are alot of reasons for poor teeth with health declining.
1) poor gums--poor nutrition low Vit C status, low CoQ-10
2) poor immunity
3) poor Vit D and calcium status
4) dry mouth/saliva deterioration due to drug therapies

I made a recent
 

discovery--don't know whether it will help others.

I now keep a bag of floss PICKS by my desk. Flossing is hugely helpful, but few people do it as often as they should. And those who do often miss critical parts.

These floss picks look like little plastic wrenches with a short length of floss in between the open grips. The fact that you can use them like toothpicks make all the difference. A lot of people--especially smokers--find that they like twiddling with them and using them repeatedly, unlike regular floss which feels like it's going to pinch your fingertips off.

I've used them for less than a week and my gum inflammation has decreased dramatically.

Just a suggestion. Hope it helps.

Sorry, goofed
 

Dalek,
I said Biotene Gel. Biotene is the gel toothpaste I use. The mouth moisturizer is Oral Balance Gel for dry mouth made by Biotene. Here is a link: http://www.laclede.com/ We order it from: http://www.drugstore.com/templates/b...-AB&trxp1=7916

These products provide balance of the natural enzymes in the mouth that you are lacking due to the deterioration of saliva or lack of it.

Sorry for the goof-up.
Billye

dahlek
 

When people get dry mouth, they sometimes like to suck on hard candies, and that is a set-up for cavities. But it's not clear--do you have dry mouth? Because if you do, it's really important to be careful about sweets; but it seems to me hard not to know if one's mouth is dry; it's just so uncomfortalbe.

So, is it? :)

I'm getting dry mouth, I think in part...
 

First off, I don't do hard candies or gum, unless under dire circumstances.
I've always had what one could call a wet mouth, but I'm realizing that I'm becoming aware of 'dry' moments?

I suppose I could say blatently it's the combo of the Keppra and the AI, however, I've been on the first for several years now and the second 6 months..any dryness is just appearing. Further the acceleration of tooth deterioration started immediately prior to the cancer's diagnosis, almost a year ago. Lots of overlapping and conflicting indicators here in terms of any cause/effect detection.

Also have a history of being a mouth breather, but, can be like a bloodhound w/saliva. My dentist has been diligent and agressive regarding treatments over the many years I've seen him. It's like an inside-out manifestation of what's probably another new potential issue and well, durned frustrating

Steve: I can't floss, finger tips are soo numb that attempts are dangerous not only to the gums, there's potential for cutting finger skin.

Last week I spent a little time listing all s/e's major and minor for all meds taken. Guess what? ALL to some degree list dry mouth [and some other choice things]. Billye: Going out and getting biotene today! Bob: My dentist said that most of their patients on anti-seizure meds ALL develop problems in short order [how encouraging!] MrsD: I'm getting to the point where I'm thinking that the combo of meds I'm on are beginning to really compound in a way resulting w/lots of undocumented changes. It's a frightening prospect really as docs don't know, and pharm co's probably know but don't want to know..or at least admit to the prospect.

So, on to life, or something like it! - thanks to all of you! Hope your pain is lighter today! Any break in it is a GOOD thing! - j

That's exactly how my dentist does my crowns. I went to him in April complaining that my back molar was decaying under that 2 year old crown. I had "that awful taste and odor" when pressing on the gum.

He argued with me that it COULDN'T BE, as he had that d@mn ice pick under my gum, because it was only 2 years old. I had no pain because of a root canal, but he was ADAMANT that it WAS NOT decaying because the crown was fitting great and was so far below the gumline.

I lost the crown in Rochester 3 weeks ago. I saw him when I got home. He still denied it was decaying. "There wasn't much tooth left to adhere the crown to, and if it HAD decayed, my cheek would have swollen like a balloon and I would have had pain." I said no I wouldn't have because the tooth was leaking. I should have sent HIM the $36.00 bill for that 10 minute office call. It was worth it to see the pretty red color on his face I guess. :D

Sorry for getting offtrack, but hadta share my story.

I use the Biotene Dry Mouth Gum also and I like sugar-free AquaDrops hydrating mints. The only place I could find the sugar-free AquaDrops was Kmart, and now they stopped stocking them. :( I'm gonna hafta go out looking...

My docs all think my meds are giving me the dry mouth. They say drink lots of water and keep using the gum and hydrating mints.

Hugs,
Jan

Aqua Drops
 

Aqua Drops is not being made anymore, so any supply you find will simply be the last of the stock. (this has been discussed at length on the Sjogrens Forum, even tried to order from the co. who makes them). A lot of the Sjoggies use sugar free lemon drops. The lemon stimulates the saliva. We use these during the day and then use the Biotene Gel at night to keep it moist when we sleep. The enzymes you need for healthy gums is in the Biotene Gel. Using it all day is the ideal situation, but drinking water washes it away, eating washes it away, and it is a little costly to constantly use it. So we all get by by using the lemon drops.

Billye

Did you remind him THAT tooth should NOT feel pain cause of the root canal???

Good for you sending him the bill, LOL. Liz

Thanks for saving me a lot of running around, and for the tip Billye!
Hugs,
Jan

No problem
 

You are welcome Janster. I had already been thru it! :rolleyes:
Billye

Billye, thought you'd want to know...
 

I've gotten and tried the liquid, it works, I think...I must now be a bloodhound, given the 'slobber'?

Can I also say it's not exactly 'yummy'? But, works.

Hugs and good thoughts

and, a few pain free minutes each day? - j

You are correct
 

Dalek,
I don't like the liquid at all and it has a different taste from the gel. It also doesn't seem to have the staying power that the gel does. Did you get the gel for nights?

Billye

Has anyone ever tried a product called "Oasis"?

It's made by the company that makes sensodyne, and it's a spray for dry mouth... using it is similar to using those fresh breath sprays.

I prefer the Oasis because it gives me the same results as the Biotene gel, but it's easier to use, easier to carry around with me, and in my opinion it works better and faster and lasts longer than the gel.

I have used the biotene gel, and other dry mouth gels from other companies, but one of the things I always disliked about all of the gel products is that they come in a toothpaste-type tube... which is messy and difficult to use in public (because I always felt silly using it in front of people because it looked like I was squeezing toothpaste into my mouth, and many times friends/family asked me what it was and then I had to explain -- and overall it was a pain in the butt).

Then I found the Oasis spray. Easier to use, easier to use in front of people because it just looks like a fresh-breath spray, easier to keep the container clean, and because the spray is a hard plastic bottle it doesn't leak into my purse of pocket like the gel-type did once.

Anyway, I didn't mean for this post to sound like an ad for the Oasis dry mouth spray :rolleyes: I just wanted to say that I tried it and it works really well and it's easy to use.

Liz

dahlek,

I saw what you wrote about flossing being difficult.... I was wondering if you ever tried "Plackers"?

http://www.plackers.com/

I use the "engage" type of plackers because that type has a larger handle and is the easiest to use. The "engage" type are the ones on the far right side of the top row in the link above...

My local store used to only carry the regular type, and then I found the "engage" type online and asked the store to carry those on their shelves as well - and the manager ordered them that day and they have been on the shelf ever since :)

My husband has PN, which is mostly in his feet but he occasionally had problems with numbness in his hands/fingers... and when his hands/fingers are numb he uses the plackers instead of regular floss - because as you pointed out using regular floss when your fingers are numb can be dangerous and do more harm than good.

Anyway, I like the plackers and so I thought I would share the link in case they are able to help you too.

Liz

Wow, should we...
 

rename ourselves 'The Bad Teeth Club'?

Liz my DH loves the plackers and or the clones...My fine fingertip controls don't work well with them but, he got hooked when I brought home some 'dinosaurs' kid's version samples from a prior dentist trip. Have no fear tho...
Web up the following: 'New smart anti-microbial approach to preventing tooth decay' Hey GOOO NANOBOTS!!!
Are all of you ahead of the curve or what? No doubt about it, we are truly in an age where science fiction and common sense are melding into good realities!?

Next tidbit of news...web up 'Semipermeable Nerve Guidance Channels' While not a 'super hot' issue, consider all the possibilities for every so many forms of nerve damages! Think of it - a sort of 'electrical tape' for nerves! While more pertinent to trauma and spinal damage issues...well, who knows?

Maybe the next is worthy of a sticky here or other places but, here goes:
web up 'Autoimmune diseases demand a low-stress lifestyle' ...believe me this is quicker than typing all the httm stuff. The article is good maybe to help others understand the 'CHRONIC-NESS' of life and the whole organization's site is not to dull either. Of course, WE all know this is no license to be lazy..

Last is a 'goodie', I'd found one of these pillows at BB&B, on sale of course, but... well, it's an adult teddy bear? http://www.abackrubco.com/index.asp?...ROD&ProdID=139 It's a 'Squish Tube Pillow' filled w/those styro pellets? Gets warm when you need it and it's in a sort of stretchy cover so it mushes around to fit in where you may need it.

Billye, I got the liquid... I'll keep an eye out for the gel...but, my med cabinet is sooo full with the 'other stuffs'!

Golly it's all before noon! Pain free minutes, hours, even seconds to all! - j