Infection in Jaw Bone. How Serious is this?
 

While doing my Root Canal the 9th of May, the specialist tells me I have an infection in my jaw bone. I am on Clindamycin 300mg x 4 a day.

I never heard of the antibiotic, but after my oral surgery on April 10th, I was put on Cipro (500mg a day) for ten days.

My root canal specialist says there is NO WAY the oral surgery caused this infection. I said ok. But I was thinking... at 62 years old (not counting when I drank Drano at 3 years old) I have never had a jaw bone infection.

Am I nuts for wondering about this coincidence????

How strong is the Clindamycin? I am allergic to Penicillin and doxycycline or something like that. I know very little about antibiotics.

HOW SERIOUS IS A JAW BONE INFECTION? I NEVER HEARD OF IT UNTIL YESTERDAY. (7 antibiotic pills later, my jaw bone and tooth still hurt bad enough it takes 30 mg of Oxycodone to break the pain).

I had a molar that was extremely painful, so the dentist decided to pull it after she had a good look at it. However, this dentist really wanted to pull all my molars. Anyway after pulling it she "scraped out" the infection, desinfected and sewn it up. It healed well and quickly.

I developed similar pain with another molar but went to a different dentist. I inquired first whether, like me, he thinks dentists are for preserving teeth first and foremost, or whether he believes in this new wave of "you don't really need any molars except the foremost two small one's" and "if your insurance has to pay for it, then I don't go for preserving if I believe chances are you will lose the tooth witin five years, ten years tops". He believed in preserving, did a root canal, and somehow sucked out the dirt and left the hole with a bit of cotton in so it could breathe for five days, after which he closed it. This was a year ago and it is fine.

Do you remember the old "funny" pic of someone with a tooth-ache and a dishcloth tied around the head and a swollen cheek? That is what I looked like from the second case I described. Definitely a jaw bone infection. And healed all right. It always heals alright after the tooth is pulled. This second dentist warned me he was not sure it was going to work, I might have to have it pulled anyway, the first one was not even willing to try.

PS: I hope it is clear to you that the root canal does not have to be the cause of the infection, most of the time it is the other way around. It is true also, though, that some dentists do not work hygienically enough. If you are sure that the jawbone infection came after the root-canal, it is possibly the case but not necessarily. Root canal = killing the nerve and removing it and cleaning out the tooth. You can see how this might cause just enough irritation in an area that is already very restless to cause an inflammation to flare up that was latent before. If you have the pockets between the teeth and gums cleaned of plaque, and this results in inflammation, or other treatments that are not as penetrative and it causes inflammation (and/or throatache) you should doubt the hygiene, IMO.

are you using
 

any drug for osteoporosis? Fosamax, Actonel, Boniva?

It has been my experience that jaw bone infections require alot of attention.
One course of Clindamycin may not be enough, or you may end up having larger doses if it doesn't.

Clindamycin is specific for bone infections, and is typically the only drug used.
It is very very hard on the GI tract and may cause diarrhea which may become severe. So it is best to eat a good organic yogurt (like Stoneyfield) daily and/or take a good probiotic with at least 4 but preferrably 6 organisms in it daily.

I would get a Vit D blood level drawn at your doctor's and see if you are very low in D.
Poor D status leads to bone issues.

Have had a series of jawbone infections after using ACTH - a steroid treatment for MS (doubt that it's used any more) - caused a bad case of thrush every time which resulted in the gums receding which in turn led to infections - lost teeth and finally resulting in bone grafts so that I can have implants - all but one molar gone - lower front teeth have a brace behind them to hold them in place and together - on penicillin every time - agree with msrd - good organic yogurt and lots of it -

I have not had any meds for osteoporosis. I made a note to get the Vitamin D checked.

I had the sore jaw bone before the Root Canal. I have been on
the antibiotic for about 42 hours and my jaw bone is tender and the tooth is tender to the touch. That is, if my tongue touches the tooth, it has a slight amount of pain. Numerically speaking, if one can do that accurately, before the root canal the pain level was about a 7-8. I used up to 75mg of oxycodone per day plus the morphine to make the pain tolerable.

Now I don't use anything but my normal dosage of morphine. I did use 30 mg of oxycodone yesterday and none so far today. I have tried 325mg of aspirin and I don't think it helped.

So I can only hope the antibiotics do their job.

It is way too soon to see
 

improvement with Clindamycin...this will be a longggg process.

You can try orajel liquid on the tooth, and an icepack on the jaw.

When I had a brutal root canal that went into my sinuses, narcotics did not
work for me at all.

I used 500mg Naproxen 3 times a day and an ice pack for 20 minute stretches several times a day. An anti-inflammatory takes down swelling and pressure off the remaining nerves. Narcotics do not.

There are OTHER nerves in your mouth besides the pulp of the tooth which was removed. Sometimes pain refers to other nerves. So this is why using a topical numbing agent is helpful. The only thing I don't like about them is that when they wear off, you get a pretty big THROB for while.

There is one toothpaste called sensodyne around here, the first one on the market years ago for sensitive teeth. My cousin who is a dentist told me after the root canal, when I still had hot/cold pain, to use this Sensodyne but without the fluoride. He said the fluoride actually counteracts the ingredient in Sensodyne that diminishes the nerve-pain in e.g.exposed bits that were not exposed before.

Sensodyne is a good toothpaste, I used it once before and my oral surgeon suggested it. It is the morphine that has messed up my memory. I usually have to read the thread again, before I post, otherwise I probably would repeat myself.

I used the ora-gel liquid and it worked for about a half hour. I will use it again in a minute.

Thanks for the suggestion.

jaw bone infection
 

Hi Dave,

Jaw bone infections are an every day, common occurance in people who have abcessed teeth, root canaled teeth or periodontal disease. There is no antibiotic or any other medicatment that will CURE the bone infection unless the source of the infection is surgically removed. The antibiotics may subside the symptoms of the infection, but as long as the source of infection is present, so is the infection.

It is common for people to think that their teeth are somehow mysteriously just sitting in gum tissue and have no direct connection to the vitality of the jaw bone. The fact is, teeth are anchored directly into the jaw bone by ligaments that allow the tooth to be slightly flexible when chewing. A comparison to this is a dental implant has no ligament so therefore it is very rigid in the jawbone and feels very solid when biting down on it. Natural teeth and dental implants intergrate intimately with the jaw bone. Teeth and the jawbone become one and the only thing that alters this natural process is a jaw bone infection.

Each tooth has branches of nerves that enter and exit the apex (end of the root) that feed off of blood vessels and nerves as a source of nutrition. ANYTIME the nerve endings are severed as is the case during every root canal procedure, or traumatized as is the case with an abcess, periodontal disease and sometimes oral surgery, the source of blood is cutoff and the tooth becomes non vital. Infection and necrotic bacteria settle inside the tooth and eventually prolifertate through the accessory canals of the tooth into the jawbone causing ischemia to occur in the jawbone.

You may remember awhile back I commented on the possible negative outcome of doing free gingival grafting on teeth that are not healthy? The trauma of that procedure, which includes the repetetive scraping of the tooth all the way down the root surface, on an unhealthy tooth can most definitely contribute to the death of that tooth which could lead up to an infection involving the jaw bone.

Clindamycin is routinely prescribed in dentistry for infections of the jawbone. It can be wicked on the intestinal tract because it kills ALL of the intestinal bacteria and can actually cause an intestinal infection called C-difficile. This intestinal infection is very hard to get rid of and can be life threatening if not dealt with properly.

It is imperative to supplement with Lactobacillus bacteria to restore what the medication is killing off. One of the best ones on the market is called Culturelle. Another essential bacteria that would be tremendously helpful is called saccharomyces boularii. When these two bacterias are used together, you will get the full benefit of a potent, nutritional boost to your intestinal tract and immune system.

Bryanna

Hi Bryanna,
My peridontal work was on the other side of my jaw. The Root Canal was tooth #31, on the other side.

The doctor doing the root canal says it would be a real long shot for the Oral Surgery to cause this problem. I can't argue because I am not an expert, plus, I believe both doctors acted properly, I don't feel like I was "abused" or the doctor was negligent.

It is just "one of those weird things".

BUT I am happy to hear it is not that unusual. I had never heard of a jaw bone infection. Sort of like, "Why me Lord?"

My wife is going grocery shopping tomorrow, I will put both those items on her list. I have been eating Yoplait yogurt (or something like that). I have lost...hmmmmm, since April 10th....
13 pounds if I counted correctly. So something good is happening out of this mess.

jawbone infection
 

Dave,

I'm sorry if my post implied that your current jaw infection was the tooth that had the periodontal work done. Since I had no idea (or don't remember) which tooth was done in either case, my intention was to make a general statement about any correlation between oral surgery and jaw bone infections. My apologies for not making that intention clearer.

Both of your dentists performed procedures that are routinely done in the conventional field of dentistry on patients who present with your particular dental problems. Neither procedure is considered negligent in the eyes of what is called "standard of care". It is what they are taught to do in dental school and the ADA backs those teachings up 100% so long as they are done according to the textbook. Does any of that mean they are performed without risks to your health? No, not by a long shot.

Jaw bone infections are common and it is my experience that basically every person with root canaled teeth will eventually have them. The degree or intensity of infection varies, but like any chronic infection anyplace in the body, it is something that always puts alot of stress on the immune system. Again I apologize if I failed to make myself clear in that any jaw bone infection is serious and should not be taken lightly. By the time the infection from a tooth has spread to the jaw bone, it has been brewing for quite some time. Most dental problems do not show any signs or symptoms until they have reached a level of inflammation that sends off signals to the brain that something is wrong.

I really wish there was a way to preserve a tooth that was infected. But there is not. Teeth are vital body parts just like every other part of the body. For example, if a person crushed their finger and the circulation of blood was cut off and there was no way to restore the blood flow, the bone would become ischemic and gangrene would set. If that non-vital finger remained on the hand the chance of gangrene proliferating to the rest of the hand would be pretty certain. If the finger was removed before the gangrene set in, the chance of saving the hand would be positive. A tooth that has been root canaled is just like that crushed finger in that there is no longer any blood able to flow through it to keep it healthy. That's why a dentist will tell you, a root canaled tooth is a non- vital tooth and becomes brittle due to the lack of blood supply. Just like the finger which is only one of five others and attached to the hand..... etc........ the tooth is only one of many which share the same jaw bone and vascular system as the rest of the body.

I am just putting the information out there to help others become informed of what their conventional dentists are not sharing with them. It is easy to research on the net if someone wanted to do that. Each person has to decide what they feel is in their best interest and my intention is to just provide the information not the solution.

Bryanna

Thought I might bring this back up, rather than start a new thread.

In another thread I mentioned multiple toothaches again. I am frustrated. I do NOT blame my doctors, they are super good people. If a mistake WAS made, it is just human error. No big deal, but I am trying to figure out what I am doing wrong.

I eat Yoplait Yogurt every day with "live and active cultures", but my wife wrote down the name of the items you mentioned -- "Culturelle" and "Saccharomyces boularii".

Is there a particular brand of these things to look for? Sorry to be such a pain, I forget so much, but my wife reminded of this post.

Thanks again, Dave

Not alot of good bacteria found in most yogurts
 

Hi Dave,

I haven't read your other post yet, I'll do so after this one.

First to address your comment about "blaming doctors". No one is doubting that they have done exactly what they have been taught to do. Whether they did it according to textbook or not...... who knows. In your case, it has obviously ignited some other dental problems to now surface. Was the health of your mouth or your over all health conducive to having the procedure done in the first place? I seem to remember you mentioning that you had some health problems. A weakened immune system can definitely have a negative impact on the outcome of any type of oral surgery.

If you stop to think about it, why didn't the first round of antibiotics kill the infection or the second round? Perhaps there is an infection that can't be reached inside of the tooth/teeth and it's set up house in your jawbone? Not to repeat myself......... but root canals do not cure any infection in the tooth because the microscopic canals cannot be cleaned out of infectious bacteria.

What to do........... consult with a dentist who is in the Biological field of dentistry who will look at your dental health along with your overall well being and offer you some treatment options.

As for the probiotics to help restore good intestinal bacteria that is being killed by the antibiotics and your compromised immune system......... most commercialized yogurt contains only a smidgeon if any good bacteria. The reason being is live bacteria die quickly when exposed to heat or varying temperatures. They also die when combined with any type of sweetener. So the combination of the lengthy processing to the additive of sweeteners to the sitting on the store shelf.......... the bacteria cannot possibly survive all that so what you are left with is dead good bacteria and a bunch of sugar and preservatives. Read the ingredients label on the yoplait yogurt....... plenty of sweeteners in there!

Information on Culturelle can be found at culturelle.com and that is the brand name of that product. The Saccharomyces Boulardii can be purchased online or in a health food store and the brand that I use is NutriCology. I personally purchase both of these products at vitacost.com

Bryanna

Bryanna, here it is July 4th and I am back. I have had more trouble with my teeth since the April 10th oral surgery than I have had in at least ten years.

I was told to get a root canal, then they said #15 needs the crown removed because there was decay under the crown. We did that last Thursday. I was in the chair over 3 hours.
They found decay on the back side, down by the nerves if I remember correctly. The dentist says he fixed it and they put a temporary crown on it.

Two days later the area around it is starting to swell and I have minor pain back. I know you said to see a special line of dentists who take a person's system into the equation, but I don't know of a single dentist who would want to take me on. Plus I wouldn't trust the dentist to try to ....... figure it all out. My case (overall) is "a mess" (direct quote from my doctor).

I don't want more antibiotics. (I have been on probiotics for a few weeks now) I have been to the best oral surgeon in our area, one of the best root canals specialists and my dentist has been doing my teeth for almost 20 years. As you pointed out, under "normal" circumstances these problems wouldn't be here, but such is life. Pretty frustrating.
The tooth is pretty far to the back I guess. Before the dentist worked on it the pain was strong enough to cause "instant earaches" in both ears and the whole row of teeth on the upper left side would hurt. I used naproxen (per dentist's directions) to alleviate swelling and it helped some. I just sit and wait. Don't know what else to do or where to go. If I am having another infection in my jaw area, it may be time to see a medical doctor to find out why.

Strangest thing -- my dentist was looking inside my mouth and he told me I had one of the healthiest mouths" he had ever seen. Hard to understand.

Hello Dilfo,

Sorry you are having so much trouble. I have recently gone thru the jaw
bone scraping and scraping, biopsy, I V antibiotics and finally 2 surgeries
to first cut the jaw right thru and then second to put new bone from my
hip into my jaw. Not a lot of fun. I hope you keep pressing the dentist/oral
surgeon and your family doctor for answers and help. I was not pushy enough and ended up with a real mess. I wish you luck with your situation.

kasmi

Hi Dave,

Well, from all that you have written here, I cannot understand how your dentist can look in your mouth and say you have one of the healthiest mouths he has ever seen. I'm not doubting that he said that to you, I just don't see how his statement could be all that credible. But I suppose anything is possible.

The dental organization that I recommend is IAOMT.org.
They see people of all walks of life and most often people who have extensive medical issues and unresolved dental issues. Your case would be something that they would be familiar with, I'm sure.

Swelling in the mouth is never something that should be ignored. However, your medical dr will only refer you back to your dentist because he won't have a clue what is wrong. It could be that tooth #15 or some other tooth in that quadrant is infected and yes, it can be progressing to the jawbone. Naproxen or any other anti-inflammatory will not cure the infection. These drugs are meant to reduce inflammation and in the case of an infection, the inflammation is only reduced temporarily.

If you feel you need to see a different dentist for whatever reason, perhaps you could try the IOAMT.org and search for a dentist in your area.

Bryanna

Hey Kami!

How are you doing?? Are you feeling any better?

Bryanna ~'.'~

Thanks for asking, Bryanna.

Lots better without the infection! I don't have any sensation in the front
right quarter of my jaw, so I have sort of a quirky smile, and a large lump
under my jaw, but the infection is gone, and I can live with the rest. This
was a very bad experience, please keep up your good work warning people
of the risks of not treating problems early.

Tx, kami

Hi Kami,

Glad to hear that you are feeling better!!

The loss of sensation....... do you know if that is from the infection or the anesthetic or the surgery itself? What is the lump under your jaw?

Any information you could give us may in some way help someone else. I appreciate your honesty about your dental problems. They definitely were severe...... but unfortunately more common than most people realize.

Thanks for the kind words.... ~'.'~

Bryanna

Hi again Bryanna.

The loss of sensation in my jaw is due to the nerve being severed when they cut thru
my jaw to get rid of the infection. They say it will not recover. I am not that concious
of it most of the time, but eating is awkward as I chomp down on that part of my lip
pretty hard. Family and friends are considerate, but I still feel self concious about it.

The lump under my jaw, I am not sure. It was there after the first surgery, and didn't
get taken care of during the second. It doesn't seem to be infection, just a hard lump
of tissue...scar tissue? It makes my face look a bit lopsided, I suppose I could look into
plastic surgery, but I really think I can just live with it. None of the obviously necessary
reasons for more repairs apply. I am not in the job market, looking for a husband or trying
to impress anyone. Plus, it doesn't hurt, just looks ugly.

If you have any ideas, I am open to them, Tx, kami

Hi Kami!

Evidently, the surgeon had to cut into the mandibular canal where various brances of trifacial nerves run through the artery. These nerves affect various areas of the face and head. But that's how extensive the infection was and they had no choice but to go in there. I have seen this occur countless times and I just wish people were better informed by their dentists about the extreme risks associated with saving/retaining infected teeth.

I would suggest that you have this area x-rayed with a panoramic xray as well as periapical xrays at least every 3-4 months post surgery for the next year to make sure that the infection is not still present. If your dentist is not concerned about xraying it, I would insist because it is definitely wiser to monitor this area and treat it, if necessary, at an early stage. I am also curious what that lump under your jaw is?? Perhaps at your next evaluation appt with your dentist, you could ask him to explain it and let us know!

Thanks for all of your input here!! I hope others are reading your story and thinking twice before keeping an infected tooth via a root canal!!

Bryanna ~'.'~



QUOTE=kami;322786]Hi again Bryanna.

The loss of sensation in my jaw is due to the nerve being severed when they cut thru
my jaw to get rid of the infection. They say it will not recover. I am not that concious
of it most of the time, but eating is awkward as I chomp down on that part of my lip
pretty hard. Family and friends are considerate, but I still feel self concious about it.

The lump under my jaw, I am not sure. It was there after the first surgery, and didn't
get taken care of during the second. It doesn't seem to be infection, just a hard lump
of tissue...scar tissue? It makes my face look a bit lopsided, I suppose I could look into
plastic surgery, but I really think I can just live with it. None of the obviously necessary
reasons for more repairs apply. I am not in the job market, looking for a husband or trying
to impress anyone. Plus, it doesn't hurt, just looks ugly.

If you have any ideas, I am open to them, Tx, kami[/QUOTE]

I am having such issues with my mouth...first I must say I have been on Zometa for over 2 years...I had molars removed on top right of mouth to avoid infections in my future years...what a mistake...6 months afterward I got a terrible infection in my gum and through my sinuses...6 months of seeing 6 different doctors passing the buck on what was wrong and surgery to drain my sinuses, a biopsy was done on my jawbone only to reveal the bone has infection in it. Now it is off to doctors again to get it treated, hopefully.I am very stressed as to how to get them to understand there is a real problem that needs treated...have to research what could be wrong just to keep myself informed and ready for their stupid arguments of what to do.Any comments or advice on this will be greatly appreciated

JAW INFECTION vs BRAIN EDEMA, CSF or DURA LEAK
 

I have a very serious situation--would appreciate an answer before I wind up in icu FOR weeks. Situation--i have a bad headache, pain in the LEFT side of the jaw, (just below the left TMJ joint), soreness on the left side of my head and pain, naseua, dizziness, some ear ringing.. I have NOT vomited or lost consciousness. I have had a slight fever (around 100 no higher).

History this week--Its been a BAD week for me medically--I was already seen in the ER for abdominal pain and for passing a kidney stone. I passed the stone...I do not know if it tore the urinary tract they refused to test me..i DID have blood in my urine..the urine color has returned to normal in past 2 days..as to the Abdomen..I beleive I have an umbilical hernia AND a possible partial bowel obstruction ( I have not had a normal BM in over a week except for a loss of bowel control last thursday night) I tried to get a CT of the abdomen in the ER and all they did was do a NON contrast study to look for kideny stones..I insisted on a contrast study to look for hernia (I HAVE HAD 3 previosu hernias and small umbilical tear--it could have gotten worse--causing loss of bowel control and constipation--I was DENIED.

I also have left elblow soreness

I have some very strange blood markers that came back from the ER--CHECK OUT THESE CRAXY MARKERS;

Glucose 142 (range65-99)
MONO PRCT 0.6% range 3.4 to 9.0)
LYMPH PERCT--get this one 6.0 range 1`9-48)
zMCHC- 32 (RANGE OVER33)
mcv 96 RANGE UP TO 94
lym ABS-- 0.5% range--0.9-5.2
MONO ABS-- 0.1 range 0.2 and higher

what i beleive I have are three seperate issues

1)I passed a 2mm kidney stone causing some blood and imperfections in urine
2) Possible abdominal /colon blockage and or hernia -I have pain in left groinm/ pain in ambdomen (middle , left, right all lower parts)-_i have a hisotry of 3 inguinal surgeries (WHY 3---because the first surgeon made a mistake using NON dissolving stiches causing severe nerve entrap,ment which needed 2 surgical fixes). A Bowel obnstruction is an emergency--i was alteady in an ER and refused care--they never even sent a GI doctor to examine me--My abdomen is swollen and I have not had a BM i an week and have severe pain.

3)NOW in the past 48 hours--i developed a bad headache, jaw pain on left side, soreness on top of left side of head---what is going on here--did I develop an INFECTION in teh bRAIN-_EDEMA ? MENINGITIS or JAW INFECTION with such a LOW RESISTENCE that was NOT given any anti-biotics (NO IV drip or anti-biotic to take home from ER). IDID have recent oral surgery--TWO AVERPLASTY surgferies whic hare quite painful (bone shavin g) i have a very damaged oral situation--missing many upper teeth--severe daamge to lower right--a toot h on the right I am told is absessed but is not currently causing pain on the right..the pain is on the LEFT JAW arounfd and below the TMJ joint---I had to keep my mouth open a long time

What can I do? Bring this story to ANOTHER ER...they are all the SAME in NYC..they dont pay attention anymore and wont do tests unless you have ahigh fever or vomiting..although my symptoms--no BM and bloated abdomen and SORE HEAD are very serious---i was sent HOME from TWO ER's this week and told 'see your specialists"

I beleive I have an emergency with a severe headache and sore head---any opinions--if it is a jaw infection what can I do at home?
3)