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Are my flares disabilng enough?
My first MS symptoms came with a blast in 2002. After utitlizing all of my FMLA time, I lost one job as I recovered, first, from stroke-like symptoms, then, from a second flare with serious memory, cognitive and manic symptoms.
Eight months later, after recovery time, I opened a licensed day care home in my own home. Did that job for approx. 16 months; then had another MS flare. By the time recovery had occurred, parents had found other care, and I did not wish to begin over from scratch. Lost job #2. Got a job as a para-educator with the school district. Worked there for 4 years. Each year, I had a flare, usually in the spring, and had to utilize FMLA time. Continued employment in this position was determined on an annual basis for their employees. During the third year, HR instituted an assessment process to determine whether I was "fit to work". Employment was continued, but school placement was moved, apparently to reduce my stress. During the fourth year of employment, I had two flares. One occurred mostly over Christmas vacation, and did not require much time off. The other one began at the end of April. On May 8, I received a letter from HR at the school district indicating that my employment would not extend to the 2008-2009 school year. As I look at searching for a new job, I wonder, now, how employable I am. I have lost 3 jobs in 5 years. If I am unable to work a full year without running out of paid time off, or, if I can work a job, but cannot "adjust" or hold a job, does that consitutute disability? I read SSDI's definition of disability online: "Disability" under Social Security is based on your inability to work. We consider you disabled under Social Security rules if: You cannot do work that you did before; We decide that you cannot adjust to other work because of your medical condition(s); and Your disability has lasted or is expected to last for at least one year or to result in death. Does this meet their definition? ~ Faith |
Hmmm.......that's a good question....and one that I do not know the answer to.
You could try calling your local SS office to inquire. I wonder if it would help if your doctor documented (if he thinks it might be true) that trying to work has caused the frequency of your flares, so he restricts you to no work |
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But, I don't think that trying to work has caused the frequency of my flares. I wouldn't feel OK asking my doctor to document this. My MS has caused the fx of my flares. ~ Faith |
May I say that even though the SSA has that in writing in their own documents for establishing your disability, they do not follow it when making decisions. If they did, none of us would still be waiting or filing appeals.
I do not want to discourage you but wanted to let you know that it won't be that cut and dried when you file. Should you file?? It certainly would not hurt. You may want to talk to a attorney that handles only SSDI cases first. They will usually do a free consultation. That way you could address the issue of jobs and losing them. I would be curious myself what they tell you about that. It never hurts to ask and it would not hurt or cost anything to have the consult. Just be sure to go to a reputable attorney. My best to you. |
Sorry, didn't mean to imply to ask your doctor to fib for you, but it has been proven that added stress (like getting a new job) can increase MS relapses or flares. I copied this for you:
Stress may trigger multiple sclerosis flare-ups in women Avoiding stressful life events and learning effective coping skills may help avert flare-ups of multiple sclerosis (MS) in women with the disease, new findings suggest. Researchers recruited 23 women with MS from the Multiple Sclerosis Clinic at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center and followed them for a year. Each week, the women completed questionnaires asking about MS symptoms and life events, such as starting a new job, finding out that a child is doing poorly in school, having a motor vehicle accident, and being physically assaulted. Every four weeks, the women were interviewed about the nature and timing of life events they had experienced, and the life events data were later analyzed with the MS exacerbation data. "A controversial issue in multiple sclerosis research concerns the extent to which psychological stress contributes to the development and progression of the disorder," writes researcher Kurt D. Ackerman, M.D., Ph.D., and co-investigators in the Departments of Psychiatry, Neurology, Pathology and Psychology at the University of Pittsburgh. "This study contributes to a growing body of evidence that stressful life events are potent triggers of disease activity in women with relapsing-remitting MS," they add. "MS exacerbations may be delayed or avoided by limiting the individual or cumulative effects of stressful life events." Their results are published in the November-December issue of Psychosomatic Medicine. During the study year, the women experienced an average of 2.6 MS exacerbations that lasted an average of 29 days. Eighty-five percent of the MS exacerbations were associated with at least one stressful life event in the prior six weeks. The results also showed that stressors from different sources and of different levels of severity were equally associated with exacerbations. In addition, the researchers found that stress led quickly to MS exacerbations, with an average of 14 days from the stressful event to the flare-up. The researchers further suggest that preventive strategies, such as coping skills training and early interventions for symptoms of anxiety and depression, could help women avoid stress-induced MS flare-ups. MS is a life-long neurological disease that is usually diagnosed in young adults. According to the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke, as many as 350,000 people in the United States have been diagnosed with MS, and approximately 200 new cases are diagnosed each week. In general, women are affected by MS at almost twice the rate of men. The research was supported by grants from the National Institutes of Health. This is from the SS website: How much can I earn and still receive Disability benefits? Question I am receiving Social Security disability benefits. Will my benefits be affected if I work and earn money? Answer We have special rules called "work incentives" that help you keep your cash benefits and Medicare while you test your ability to work. For example, there is a trial work period during which you can receive full benefits regardless of how much you earn, as long as you report your work activity and continue to have a disabling impairment. The trial work period continues until you accumulate nine months (not necessarily consecutive) in which you perform what we call "services" within a rolling 60-month period. We consider your work to be "services" if you earn more than $670 a month in 2008. For 2007, this amount was $640. After the trial work period ends, your benefits will stop for months your earnings are at a level we consider "substantial," currently $940 in 2008. For 2007, this amount was $900. Different amounts apply to people who are disabled because of blindness. The monthly substantial amount for statutorily blind individuals for 2008 is $1,570; for 2007 this amount was $1,500. For an additional 36 months after completing the trial work period, we can start your benefits again if your earnings fall below the "substantial" level and you continue to have a disabling impairment. For more information about work incentives, we recommend that you read the leaflet, Working While |
Thanks for the stress article. Interesting. I think that the bigger stress, for me, will be adjusting to not working, and to being "disabled". I plan to look for some meaningful volunteeer jobs, and to come up with a routine at home, as well, and make those my "new" work, if I pursue the disability route.
~ Faith |
Faith, I had to redefine who I was when I could no longer maintain the schedule necessary to work outside the home. In fact, I have had to be gentle with myself when I can't get much done around the house when I am flaring. My disabling condition is Crohn's and complications in my altered digestive system (I have no colon, and I also suffer some fecal incontinence. . . not pretty or simple to work around!)
When it became apparent that I would not be bouncing back into my highly-stressful cubicle world, my mother reminded me that I had always dreamed of the day that I could be a full-time artist. Well, I am hardly that, but I did turn back to my first love, and picked up the drawing pad and set it in the easel at her urging. What is difficult for me now is that during a flare or a particularly difficult pain period it is hard for me to be creative. But I am surrounded by art I have done over the past 5 years, and my easel stands always ready right out in the living room. And I can now respond "I am an artist" instead of "I am disabled" when someone asks me what I do. . . . So I understand the stress of not working. I find that any time I feel good for more than 3-5 days in a row, I begin to dream of the day when that becomes 30 days, and then 60, and them maybe I will be able to think about returning to a full time job, the feeling that I am productive again, and the ability to save for the future instead of worry about it! For now I will have to be content to mess around with my pastels and watercolors . . . and take a workshop now and then to stretch myself a little. |
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I'm glad that you've found an outlet in returning to your art. For me, I will need to find ways to continue to get out of the house. I will need to look for volunteer opportunities to keep me in touch with people. Shelving books in a library, or stuffing envelopes for some organization aren't going to cut it. ~ Faith |
Faith,
I also have this on my mind frequently. I work four days a week and I can barely stay awake at the office. We have a small company and I don't know how long we'll continue on as that. We may go off in different directions and do our own things. I don't know that I could manage in another company. I work very slowly at my job, though I know it very well. I don't know if another organization would be able to tolerate my fatigue issues and other effects of my MS. I haven't been hospitalized in a few years, but I know how that can make things difficult at work when I get behind with everything and others have to cover for me. I can't handle working with "difficult people" anymore. I know this is triggered by MS, but I have to accept that as an indicator that my career might be shortened because of it. I would also volunteer if I had to go the route of SSDI. I have a feeling you would have a full schedule even if you start with SSDI. I know I'd be the same. I hope things work out well for you in this. |
disabled title
As Blue Eyes once said: Most disabled people work full time dealing with the disease that disabled them. They are always employed.
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~ Faith Quote:
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I think the point Michael is making; is that being disabled in itself is a full time job. I know for sure it is for me.
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Driving me to all of my appointments is almost a full time job for my 70 year old parents who live an hour away :wink:
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Sorry to hear about your flare-ups.
I would discuss filing for benefits with my doctors. I found this book helpful. http://www.amazon.com/Nolos-Guide-So...2830597&sr=1-1 Here are two forms the agency will send you to fill out. They are not filled out in the book. SSA 3373 BK SSA 3380 BK http://www.disabilitydoc.com/disabil...ication-forms/ |
New question --
For those of you who have used disability attorneys to help in getting accepted: Did your attorney do anything to help you get accepted on the first application --prior to denial? Sounds like mine would only remind me of deadlines, etc. I can read SS letters; I don't need to pay them 25% of my backpay to call me about a deadline. Regarding helping with filing application/knowing how to word it, etc., "We can answer any questions that you have." Well, I've already filled it out. Too late. I think I'll wait to find an attorney until I see if I need to go to court. ~ Faith |
Well, I've already filled it out. Too late. I am sure you understand how to fill out these forms.
How does SSA define the levels of work? How do you prove disability? There are two ways and what are they? http://www.nhchc.org/DocumentingDisability.pdf Your attorney should do an intake interview, and assist you in filling out all papers. Most times this can be done by phone. You send your medical records to the lawyers office, and they forward them on to SSA. You would recieve a copy of all forms send to SSA, and a letter when medical records were submitted. When you use an attorney, they may want the case to wait a year for approval. SSA has a rule, that a case has to last a year or be terminal to get benefits. Good luck with your case, |
The 4 doctors (neurologist, primary care provider/family doctor, psychiatrist, psychologist) that I see regularly, or, have seen off and on, during the previous 6 years are all supportive of my applying for disability. My psychologist says that she has had success with helping to get SSDI applications approved, in 6-8 months, without a denial, for other clients. At least 3 out of 4 of my doctors are willing to write a letter to SSDI, rather than just forwarding medical records.
While, emotionally, this feels somewhat disconcerting for me, because this is not the direction that I wish that I was going, I expect that it will help me to be approved more quickly and easily. I completed my Disability Report Form SSA-3368-BK and my Work History Report Form SSA-3369-BK online last week; I turned in my 18 Medical Release forms in person in the SSA office on Monday. I attempted to complete their Application online last week, too, but, after I saved it, I could not get back in with my Re-Entry number. I have a phone interview scheduled for tormorrow. SSA told me that they could complete my application then. Next week, I am volunteering to help in our church's VBS (Vacation Bible School) program, and then I may start to look for some volunteer work. I really don't have tons of energy, but if I find some small things to do, that will keep me busy some of the time. I worry that, if I am home full-time without something meaningful to do, that I will be at risk of depression. ~ Faith |
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Thanks. The attorney's office that I contacted did not seem interested in doing much more than reminding me about deadlines, and helping with the appeal, if it goes to court. I decided not to retain them, during this initial application process, if I'm paying them for just about nothing. I guess some attorneys might be better, but he's the only disability attorney from around here listed in the yellow pages. The 4 doctors (neurologist, primary care provider/family doctor, psychiatrist, psychologist) that I see regularly, or, have seen off and on, during the previous 6 years are all supportive of my applying for disability. My psychologist says that she has had success with helping to get SSDI applications approved, in 6-8 months, without a denial, for other clients. At least 3 out of 4 of my doctors are willing to write a letter to SSDI, rather than just forwarding medical records. While, emotionally, this feels somewhat disconcerting for me, because this is not the direction that I wish that I was going, I expect that it will help me to be approved more quickly and easily. I completed my Disability Report Form SSA-3368-BK and my Work History Report Form SSA-3369-BK online last week; I turned in my 18 Medical Release forms in person in the SSA office on Monday. I attempted to complete their Application online last week, too, but, after I saved it, I could not get back in with my Re-Entry number. I have a phone interview scheduled for tormorrow. SSA told me that they could complete my application then. Next week, I am volunteering to help in our church's VBS (Vacation Bible School) program, and then I may start to look for some volunteer work. I really don't have tons of energy, but if I find some small things to do, that will keep me busy some of the time. I worry that, if I am home full-time without something meaningful to do, that I will be at risk of depression. ~ Faith |
A lawyer should also be explaining if you are eligible to receive benefits.
Like...........how much will you be able to do volunteer work ? If you are able to drive cancer patients to their treatments 4 hours a day, SS will consider you able to deliver phone books. If you can supervise the bible school kids for the week, you can be a school bus monitor. It doesn't matter if you used to make $100,000 a year and now you can't keep a job that pays more than minimum wage because you miss a month every year to an exacerbation. SS will say that you can work for McDonalds this year, then Burger King, then Wendy's. I got rejected on my first try. I just found out at my appeal hearing.....It wasn't about how eloquently I or my doctors described my pain that increases with any activity. It's about how long you can sit, walk, and stand. Have you been out a whole year yet ? I just found that out too, you need to be out a year (unless you have ALS or are terminal) before you even apply. Explaing all of that was what a lawyer should do Best of luck in this long process Faith |
my siuation
hi I am new here but I have been on SSI for about 2 yrs. now. I was denied the first time but was told that everyone is I guess it's their way of making people sweat and weeding out the ones that would just suck it up and go back to work. I have two daughters now 8 and 5 and I am 27 applying was not something I wanted to do (that was for old people) but the more I looked at it there was no way I would be able to continue to work and take care of my girls. I was diagnosed with DDD and had my second unsuccsessful surgery at the age of 23 I have pain on a daily basis and my legs often give out on me with no warning. If you get the right doctors who will give it to you strat and back you up you should have no problem receiving SSI they might have you on partical SSI which is where you are able to work a limited amount of hous a week with out it affecting your ben. But iyou as a person know your limitations and if you feel that you need help there is no shame in applying like I said just about everyone I've talked to was denied the first time but just don't give up.
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Update
Applied for SSDI the first week in June, online. Was followed up by a phone interview w/ them on June 13. Two of my doctors have written helpful letters to SSDI.
Since then, I had an appointment with an MS specialist in Kansas City. She thinks that I likely do not have MS; that it might be CNS Lupus, which is also a dx that Mayo Clinic considered back in 2002. I have a follow-up appointment with her next week, during which time she will compare old test results with recent tests, and try to come up with a dx. I worry that a possible change in dx may delay or jeopardize my claim. If I've posted this on another thread, I apologize for the repeat. ~ Faith |
Faith,
You are taking a chance doing volunteer work. This can equal the real thing in SSA eyes. You are keeping to a schedule, and are doing certain duties. You are saying I can not work a regular job, where I stand, stoop, lift, bend etc, but can do these things as a volunteer. You are risking a denial. I suggest you find the 3373, and 3380 forms, and see what questions they ask about your daily activities. |
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Yeah, I wondered about volunteering being a problem, but some advice that I'd received said that it wouldn't be. My volunteer jobs do not involve standing, lifting, bending or stooping. When I volunteered for VBS at church, it was about 3 hours a day, for a total of 15 hours. That was only for one week. Classroom time involved mostly sitting, and there was some minimal walking from one classroom site to another. I don't think I'll ever have to report that time, since it was short-term. Right now, I'm only volunteering about 3 hours a week, and that's spread out between 3 separate days. It, also, does not involve standing, bending, stooping or lifting. I read to nursing home residents and play the piano. So, I am not claiming that I am unable to do those activities, and then going out and doing them as a volunteer. I don't see any inconsistencies there. I do plan to add about 10 hours a week in the fall, but I still have time for my one or two naps per day, and I don't there's a very good case that that is comparable to substantial, gainful employment, if I don't ever volunteer for more than a 2 or 3 hour block at a time. But, I'd welcome additional comments. ~ Faith |
The SSA 3373 BK, and SSA 3380 BK forms are sent by the state agency not your local office, so they are not found at the SSA site.
You should use the form with the latest date. http://www.legisit.com/downloads.asp http://www.disabilitydoc.com/disabil...ication-forms/ I do not think you understand SSA definition of disability. You medical symptoms have to be severe and meet or equal a listing from the impairment. You have to be sick enough not to do sedentary work (eg) playing a piano is a sit down activity. http://www.ssa.gov/disability/profes...ltListings.htm You only "volunteer" job should be making sure SSA gets your medical records. |
Anybody else have comments or exper. related to volunteering while applying for SSDI?
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I understand that doing sedentary work for a period of time that, if paid, could be determined to be substantial, gainful employment could be a potential problem. However, I am currently doing sedentary work for 3 hours a week. That still doesn't strike me as something that should jeopardize my claim, as it does not even come close to being substantial, gainful employment. If you believe that I do not explain the SSDI definition of disability, please explain it to me in a way that I will understand. My medical symptoms are severe and they do meet an SSDI listing. I have doctors who will back this up. It appears that you might be making assumptions that this is not true, without having any information. I'd be interested in seeing where you get your information, that it could jeopardize a claim. Do you have a link for that? And possibly, personal experience or anecdotes as well? I've decided not to pursue paid employment during my application process, even though the disability firm that we contacted said it would be OK, as long as I don't get too closde to the $960 per month. I also don't know if anyone would even hire me for 2-3 hours per day, especially if they knew how my flares affect my work attendance record. But, again, I can't see that volunteer work, for limited blocks of time, would be too much of a risk. If I were volunteering 6-8 hours per day, that would be different. Anybody else have comments or experience related to volunteering while applying for SSDI? ~ Faith |
I'd be interested in seeing where you get your information, that it could jeopardize a claim. Do you have a link for that? And possibly, personal experience or anecdotes as well?
I know a person, who worked a part-time job, and is fighting to keep her benefits. The agency feels, her medical health problems are better since she worked. The meds and therapy must have done the trick. When you volunteer you have to keep to a schedule. You should ask you psychartist and therapist about volunteer work. This is information about mental disorders direct from the agency. https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.n...2!opendocument When you have a physical problem the symptoms have to be severe enough to keep a person from doing sedendary work, or any job in the national economy. http://www.andalman-flynn-law.com/li...UIDELINES2.pdf |
Thanks for the links.
I used to hold a 6 1/2 hour a day job. I am not sure that I could maintain that kind of schedule anymore, due to my MS fatigue. I take 1-2 naps per day. I read your links, and I also do not believe that I could be seated for 6 hours, and on my feet for two hours. I am not sure how the information in your links contributes to your belief that volunteering a few hours each week will jeopardize my claim. My neurologist wrote to Disability Determination Services that I am "totally and permanently disabled and there is no possibility of rehabilitation. She has such frequent flare-ups that she is unemployable. Even when she has periods of remission, she is unable to work an eight-hour day and these are infrequent." My psychologist wrote a 2 page letter, using information that I supplied to her in a letter that described how my MS has affected my employment over the past 6 years. In her letter, she stated that my condition is not likely to improve, and that I am not likely to be able to return to gainful, substantial employment. I have asked my psychiatrist and psychologist about volunteering. My psychiatrist would not have supported my going on disability if I stayed at home and did NOT volunteer. He would be concerned about mental health and depression issues if I did not get out of the house to do something useful and meaningful. (However, he has recently left the agency, and I no longer have a psychiatrist.) If requested, my psychologist would indicate that she prescribed volunteer work for me. Again, you do not seem to be acknowledging that the volunteer work that I am talking about does not include enough hours that it would be considered the equivalent of gainful, substantial employment, even though I have stated that multiple times. I don't know how many hours your friend was employed, but it appears to me that her situation might be different than mine. ~ Faith |
I am not sure how the information in your links contributes to your belief that volunteering a few hours each week will jeopardize my claim.
How can you volunteer on a regular basis, with a depression? Do you really know when you will feel well enough to be on a schedule? If you can be on a schedule you condition has improved and you are no longer disabled. I am talking here about a mental health flareup or decompensation. When your psychiatrist/ psychologist describes your mental health problem; they have to use SSA terms. https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.n...2!opendocument I want to wish you good luck with your case. |
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I have not read anything in your links that says "if you can be on a schedule, you are no longer disabled." So far, that quote only comes from you. Yes, playing piano is a sit down activity. So is watching TV and eating lunch. Can I not do those either, without jeopardizing my claim? I am currently volunteering only 3 hours a week! You have not acknowledged that I am volunteering very little, even though I have stated it repeatedly. I am unable to work an 8 hour day, or probably anything longer than about 3 hours at a time, without a nap. ~ Faith |
Faith,
I did a Google search on whether a person could do volunteer work, while applying for SSI/SSDI benefits. I did not find any information. Most people are too Sick. I am sure I read about this on a message board at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Disinissues/ http://brain.hastypastry.net/forums/index.php Social security section. |
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