I have a question about drinking
 

I hope you all don't mind if I ask this, but I just want to find out some facts.

Exactly what separates a social drinker from an alcoholic??

I don't drink. I do not like the taste of alcohol. Oh, I've had the occasional glass of wine with dinner, but that's it. It has to be in a pretty glass and I'll probably drink half of it.

I have been told that it would be beneficial to have a glass of wine with dinner because it's good for the heart. I also have diabetic neuropathy and I know that it might inflame the neuropathy so I don't drink any alcohol at all. The last time I had any wine was probably at a wedding 4 years ago. So drinking is not My thing.

But I have friends who sit out at night in the back yard and have some beers. I have other friends who bring out margueritas and dacqueries (spelling, sorry), and they chug a lug them on the weekends (but they all work and don't do this during the week).

As a matter of fact, several years ago, I was at a nighttime chip and dip thing in someone's backyard and they brought out pitchers of this and that and poured them into glasses. I had never tasted margueritas, etc. I found them delicious. But I had maybe one glass of each and that was that for me.

But they were doing this all night long.

Does this make one an alcoholic? Or are these (all women), just gals getting together on a hot summer night to drink ladies drinks??

I really don't know the answer.

I grew up in a household where, on holidays and special occasions, the highballs were served, whiskey sours, 7 and 7's and beer was served. My mother had 10 brothers and sisters, and on various occasions, I would see drinking. Never thought much about it because no one passed out and we all played cards during the night, then had coffee and cake.

I never knew my own mother was an alcoholic. I thought EVERYBODY's mother was sitting at the kitchen table when their 12 year old came home from school, and she'd be sitting there with a glass of scotch. Always scotch, never anything else. She never slurred, I never saw any disturbing kind of behavior. She was a mean person and we never got along, but I never attributed it to drinking.

Only when I was 24 and my parents moved to Florida, did my father call me and tell me "the superintendent of the apartment complex told me I better reign in my wife's drinking, she's getting out of hand". That's when I said 'Mom drinks??? Honestly, no one ever told me anything.

I told him to check for scotch bottles, and empty glasses. I flew there on many occasions, and they had a bar with lots of alcohol. But my mother had family in Florida, and there was ALWAYS people over and drinks were served. I never drank because it's not my thing. Food WAS my thing, but it's not any longer, thank god for that.

I distinctly remember my father singing and playing the ukelele with a drink in his hand on Christmas and on News Years Eve, but that was it for him.

Everybody else drank highballs on the weekends.

So does this constitute social drinking, or was everybody an alcoholic.

I believe my mom was. She was a nurse and worked the night shift, and I was visiting in Florida when I was in my late 20's. She must have been 56 or so. She came home at 7 a.m. and I watched her go to the liquor cabinet and pour herself a glass of scotch. I ran over and said AHA!!!! got you. and she jumped and said 'Don't tell your father, you don't understand, you just got up and had breakfast, I'm just coming home from work, so I have to unwind"

I tried to speak to her but it was like I was wrong and didn't understand and SHE knew what SHE was talking about.

If anyone can give me some answers, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks much.

Mel

alcoholism is an addiction, and as such it isnt a matter of choosing when or whether to drink or how much. one HAS to have alcohol and not having it causes physical and psychological withdrawal symptoms. A sober alcoholic cant risk ever having another drink...nomatter how long they have been sober, because "one drink is too much, and a whole bottle is never enough"

so I guess IMHO there is a very big difference between social drinking and alcoholism, tho many social drinkers might be alcoholics kwim

I found some sites and info on how to tell -

[Do you have to be an alcoholic to experience problems?

No. Alcoholism is only one type of an alcohol problem.
Alcohol abuse can be just as harmful.
A person can abuse alcohol without actually being an alcoholic—that is, he or she may drink too much and too often but still not be dependent on alcohol. Some of the problems linked to alcohol abuse include not being able to meet work, school, or family responsibilities; drunk-driving arrests and car crashes; and drinking-related medical conditions. Under some circumstances, even social or moderate drinking is dangerous—for example, when driving, during pregnancy, or when taking certain medications.]
http://www.medicinenet.com/alcohol_a...lism/page3.htm

http://www.alcoholandfamilies.org.uk...ted_others.htm

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/about/a/alcoholism.htm

http://www.alcoholscreening.org/

Well, my lady friends who go in their backyards (this is only during the summer and maybe once a month at that), I gather they don't have a problem with alcohol because I've never seen them drunk (but then again, even if you don't see a person, that doesn't mean that that person doesn't drink during the day).

Perfect example is my friend who I only thought drank at night, and now she's begun in the day.

I think the best thing is to drink water!!!!

And when you go to a wedding, just take the champagne and offer a toast and that's it.

But I can definitely see how it can be a problem for a person with an addiction.

Do you know I never knew you could be an alcoholic if you only drank beer??

I thought it had to be hard liquor. Goes to show you how much I know about the subect??

My friend's son only drinks beer. BUT A LOT OF BEER.

And I have a former friend who has a husband of almost 40 years and I've never seen him sober. On any holiday or occasion, he's passed out on the floor with beer cans next to him. Someone remarked to her "do you know your husband has a drinking problem?" and she replied "listen, he works hard during the week, what's the harm if he likes his beer??" Now how to do you reply to a comment like that, especially when the guy is passed out two feet in front of you??

You don't.

I didn't.

I've learned much from this forum. And I thank you.

Melody

you don't have to get drunk to be an alcoholic.

There is a term used to describe an alcoholic who functions with all daily activities. They are called functioning alcoholics. They can drink and function just as someone who doesn't drink. It's still a disease no matter how you term it imho.

A social drinker in my other opinion is one who drinks occasionally and does not abuse it. I hardly ever drink but I do on occasion, but never get wasted. Maybe a beer here and there. I grew up with alcoholics so my fear of becoming one helps me turn away. I also think to drink because everyone else is can become a problem. Saying no is OK. Many times you'll find me sipping a coke while others are drinking.

Curious:

You said: "you don't have to get drunk to be an alcoholic".

I never knew this.

Mel

it is true melody.

i have uncles who were alcoholics. drank pretty much everyday. i can say i only saw 1 drunk 1 x. he went to go get dried out not long after that.

some get so used to the alcohol, it's like they have a tolorence to it. takes so much for them to act any different. my x's grandfather was that way. drank everyday.

it's that they can't and won't give it up. they will say..oh i can..but i don't want to. i'm not an alcoholic..i never stumble around..yada yada. :rolleyes:

i am a non drinker by choice. very very rarely will hubby and i have a glass of wine at home. never ever away from home. i have poured out more bottles than we have drank.

i'm very passionate about parents drinking infront of their kids. ticks me off more than i can say.

especially at picnics or family gatherings. they are going to get into a car and drive those kids home. :mad:

my x's family is big on doing that. one reason he is an X. :D

I do not have alot of time tonight but wanted to pop in.
I have been sober almost 8 years now and I was a daily drinker....26-40oz of tequila per day. That sorta separated me from a social drinker right there!!
There are many factors in life that can open the doors to alcoholism. Those same factors could drive a non a non alcoholic to drink excessively....even habitually...however the alcoholics need for drink if so intense willpower rarely wins out.
I AM SOOOO tired right now and need to crash. Will post more tomorrow.
I am really enjoying the action on this foum....so different....so nice!!!!!!!!!!!

Dorrie:

My friend just phoned me. It was at 10:30 a.m. this morning. She said "my husband is crying, our son gave us a hard time last night at 4 am.".

She explained that her husband was crying in his sleep. She woke him up to make him hot milk, when she noticed all the lights were on in the son's room, and he wasn't there. All the lights were on downstairs. She thought someone broke in. She went to the front door and she saw her son outside at 4 a.m. talking to a woman driving a very expensive car.

The husband came downstairs and she said "there's our son, outside, it's 4 .am. and he's talking to a woman in that car".

The guy came in the house, took one look at his parents and blurted out "I can't stand you two. I hate you, you are really not my father (don't forget he's adopted), and he looked at his mother and said 'but I do have a bit more respect for you". "I just want you to know I'm going out with this woman". Then the parents went back to bed, the guy went back outside, and right now he's sleeping".

Now you all might think I'm nuts, but this is what I told my friend.

"There is no reaosn on the face of this earth that anyone has to go out at 4 a.m. unless they are doing or conducting business that is NOT ABOUT DRINKING". And she said "oh you are talking about drugs". And I said 'DUH!!!"

She didn't say a word, she just cried. She said 'His stomach is all swollen, he's going to wind up in the hospital again, I know it, and I'm not buying him any more food, and (well the husband doesn't have the best communicative skills, and lately he's been saying to his son" 'you're no good, you're a bad seed, you are not my son any more". He's frustrated, I get this.

So I really think there's bit more going on than the beer. I could be wrong. But I don't think so. This guy's a trainwreck waiting to happen.

Oh my friend said "And I don't care, I'll do whatever I have to do not to let him come home, because he's killing us". I then said 'that's exactly what you have said the last 4 times he's been in the hospital." "you don't follow through".

She said "you know you're right, but this is killing my husband".

I said "let me tell you one thing. I know you love your son, but if this winds up killing your husband, you'll never look at your son the same way again".

She said "yeah, and he was a great father". I said 'of course he was, I know this".

But the frustrating part is when the father says stuff like "you're a bad seed, you are not my son".

good lord, these people better get some communicating skills.

No good is going to come out of this.

thanks for the good input. Much appreciated.

Melody

I KNOW this isn't an AA meeting but I had my go-around with alcohol. I drank for some 20 years but after year ONE I knew I had a problem. I am in my 16th year of sobriety and I don't miss alcohol in the least.

If someone is trying to talk you into drinking, IGNORE them PLEASE. That's how mine started. I couldn't sleep after I had my daughter. I mean I REALLY couldn't sleep. Doctors wouldn't give me sleep aids so I did the only thing I could do to get some sleep. That is what Launched me into my Drinking Career. It ruined my health, destroyed anything I had with my family, two divorces, which I can't blame on MY drinking since BOTH my husbands were Alcoholics too and they certainly contributed to the messes.

Alcohol is a sedative and a depressant. It is NOT good for you and especially if you have the tendency for addiction, which I do. My Dad was alcoholic and my Mother to a degree but she really didn't drink all that much, only socially but she got Really MEAN. My Dad just crawled off by himself and went to sleep.

To answer your question ML. It's not how MUCH you drink, it's what it does to you when you drink. One drink will set up a "COMPULSION" to have another and another and another and another. That's why they say in AA that "One is too many and a thousand is not enough". That is a True Alcoholic.

Hi Wiix! Congratulations on your 16 years!! That is just wonderful!!!
I love to read on here...it makes me think and rejoice in the fact that I am sober!! I would not trade the sober life in...I love it!! It is a shame that so many years are wasted but I am just so grateful to be able to enjoy my life now!
When you spoke of compulsion it made me go back.
Never could I stop after the first one. Never. I always took it to the limit...if the booze was running low I would get crazy...I learned quickly to plan ahead....I was to the point at the end where I would buy a 26 oz bottle of tequila and a mickey. That way if I finished the 26er I had the mickey to fall back on.
I could not share my booze...again the fear that I would not have enough.
Many times I planned on quitting and really truly meant it and wanted to but 48 hours was all the time I could stay sober without panicking....I did not know my life without alcohol in it and I was too scared to go thru withdrawl. I did not know how to have fun or relax without it. I could not even meet and date people without my liquid courage!! I needed booze to function.
When I did finally get sober...I was drained and could not go on....no one really wanted to be around me any more....I put drink before my family, my friends, getting a job...I put it first...before anything.
I only hope more people could get to the point I got to and become willing to go thru whatever is necessary to get sober.
Drinking reminds me of toothpain....when you pull the teeth...the pain is gone. When you stop drinking and get help...the pain eventually goes away too!!
Just for anyone interested who is reading this....compulsion...yup that as me...had to drink...could not run out. One time when I did run out of my booze I was desperate....someone had a 1/2 beer and put cigarette butts out in it....I picked the butts out and yes I drank it..I needed it! I had to!!
I just can't see someone non alcoholic doing that? Me...I did ...I am an alcoholic and those were things I had to do to feed the compulsion!!
Thank you God, for my sobriety!!!!!!!:)

A crook goes into a bar. He jumps up on a table and yells:

"This is a Stick Up and I am going to kill everyone of you."

The one Dude, Alcholic, at the end of the bar yells back to him:

"Can you wait until I finish my drink?" :eek::D;):wink:

HaHa!!!!
Heres one:

Man needs a new brain...goes to brain store
asks about the prices of brains...
salesman shows him 3 brains
brain#1 is $50,000.00 belonged to a doctor!
brain#2 is $100,000.00 belonged to a rocket scientist!
brain#3 is $500,000.00 belonged to an alcoholic!!!!

The man was confused:confused: and asked why the alcoholic brain was so much more expensive than those of a doctor and a rocket scientist!!!!!!!!!!

The salesman replied......"its more expensive because its barely been used"!!:D
:ROTFLMAO::ROTFLMAO::ROTFLMAO::ROTFLMAO::ROTFLMAO:

Well, I have sad news again.

I had started another thread "trying to help a friend", but I'm just putting the update on this one. Same people are reading it.

He's back in the hospital. He drove himself because his pancreatitis flared up, he got all infected and he couldn't take the pain.

My friend called me up all hysterical telling me that "if he dies, I'm going to kill myself". Now how do you answer someone who tells you this??

I, of course, told her to go again to Al-anon, that she needs help with this situation. She is in therapy and she said to me 'He can't come home, he can't come home, I have to find a way to get him into rehab".

This just happened yesterday by the way.

Guess what happened today? They gave him librium, his heart stopped racing, he's much better and I have no idea what the prognosis is, but they told her 'he'll make it". He refused to see the social worker. I told her to go and see the social worker and proceed to do whatever she needed to do to put him in rehab. (How stupid was I on this one??).

So she and her husband went to the social worker and asked all kinds of questions. What can they do, How do they get a judge to sign off on this, etc. etc.?

She was told "He's not a danger to himself, and he's not a danger to you". She said 'what do you mean he's not a danger to himself, he's got a death wish going on, he's been hospitalized 4 times in one year. His Pancreas can't take it any more'.

The social worker said "Yes I understand but if he had a gun to his head, then you could have him committed. This is a drinking problem and it's HIS problem".

Then she said "but he's killing us, we have no life". The social worker said "he's not killing you, you are allowing this".

My friend did not understand. I said 'if you went to an Al-anon meeting, believe me you would understand. They would explain tough love to you. They would tell you to stop feeding him, buying stuff for him, etc."

She said: "but I dont' do these things". I then said:"you bought him a gift today". She said: 'but he's in the hospital, he's my son".

I just said (this is on the phone because she lives in another state). I said "you need to attend Al-anon meetings." "you need to listen to what they have to say, and apply it".

She just said "well, we have no rights, we have to let him come home, and if we go to Family Court (the only legal way to evict him), it will take 6 months to one year, BUT I CAN'T ABANDON MY CHILD"

This says it all!!! She wants him to voluntarily go into rehab and that's not happening.

We really thought that this time, there could be a judge signing off on SOMETHING. I gather this is not the case.

Good Lord.

Sounds very familiar. This is the merry-go-round of alcholism. People who I have known in my life who are much younger than I am have had their lives cut short directly from the use and abuse of alcohol.

I heard in the past year or so of two women, BOTH were my roommates for a short while have passed away. I can't say from what I witnessed with them that I'm surprized though.

They were both locked in the grip of alcohol addition and it was running their lives. I myself had stopped when I knew them and I also knew the incideousness of the beast. I watched them go through their antics, their self deception, their physical deterioration, their night terrors, it is a horrible thing to watch and be around.

Yet, since I had been there and knew what they were going through I knew there wasn't anything I could say or do to make them stop. They had to want to stop on their own. Only thing I could do was give them food and water and try to get them into bed so they could sleep. But once they had rested and got hydrated a bit then they were off running again.

Some people just NEVER get it. They are mentally incapable of seeing what is happening to them. Alcohol is incidious and trecherous and always there waiting for these people. I know how it feels.

It will take ONE very Negative experience to make them stop or at least want to stop. The use and abuse of alcohol will give you 3 things without a doubt. The nuthouse, jail and and early death. I have seen it happen over and over and over again.

But with all the trouble it caused me I was one of the lucky ones. I SAW where it was heading and did stop on my own. It was SO hard but I did it.

These words ring very true!!! Wiix, I am glad that you did just so you could share this post :) :hug:

Well, I just got off the phone with the young man who is in the hospital. He had been extremely verbally abusive to his mother, (I didn't get this one bit), I asked if it would be okay to call him (I've spoken to him before).

I called him and he was extremely polite to me (He is NOT this way to his parents). I asked him "why do you curse your mother and treat her like a piece of dirt, why do you do this"? He replied "you don't know her you only hear HER version of stuff, she's unstable, she cries all the time, I can't take it when she cries".

I said 'She is very worried about you, this is your 4th time in the hospital, these are your parents, can't you understand that?" He was adamant. I said "would you ever consider going into rehab?" and he said:

"That is absolutely not for me, I am NOT interested in anyone else's problems, I went to a few AA meetings and all they talk about is their problems, I have to do this ON MY OWN!!

I said "but that doesn't work now does it??" He just went on and on about how he can't do rehab and he doesn't believe in AA and he wants to do this on his own, etc. etc.

He had no respect for his parents. His father went straight to the hospital after finding out that he cursed the mother. They had a fight, words and curses were exchanged and the father left. Now they all swear they are never calling him again, and won't go visiting him.

Then my friend just called me (I'm still reeling over this one), and said:

"Melody, I know that my son doesn't want me there and that he doesn't respect me, but he's alone and he needs me". I said "do you hear yourself?? he has a girlfriend, she's there, he specifically cursed you and told you not to come, why do you want to do this to yourself".

And she went: 'But I know he doesn't mean this".

Oh my god.

Nothing I can do. Someone needs to be hit over the head with a hammer. She drinks and I told her "the best thing you can do is get clean and sober yourself and go to AA"

She said "no, I can't, I have to cope with all of this".

Quite Sad, all of this drama in their lives.

Oh Man. :o That's rough when the Mom and the son both drink. You can't help either of them Melody. You are probably better off staying out of it.

As far as the son saying he can't DO Rehab and he doesn't like AA, I can understand that too. Sounds like he needs to get away from EVERYONE.

My Dad stopped on his own. He was never a social kind of guy. He always drank off by himself somewhere, not in bars but out in his car or truck or in his shop. He had lots of places he could go to be alone. But he finally stopped when HE came to the conclusion that he's had Enough. He actually said that to me and my mother. He had 40+ years of sobriety when he passed away.

I quit on my own this time too BUT I had the benefit of the tools from AA from previous attempts. I think over a period of about 20 years I did stop 3 times before for varying lengths of time. Once for 6 or 8 months and two other times, one for 2 years and one for 4. All those time I was active in AA. This time I was only the first 3 or 4 months.

Tell him and tell his mother, or better said, ASK them, can you go one day without a drink?? Then ask " Can you just NOT drink TODAY?" See the deal with this is that if you keep saying that everyday, you string days together then weeks then months then years then decades but ONLY if you can "NOT DRINK TODAY".

Some time ago, I did ask her that very question. She is in therapy and her therapist actually told her 'give Melody a break and stop calling her'. lol

When I asked her "can you just try and not drink tonight?" she responded.

"Sure I can, but I don't want to, this is how I cope with my son's alcoholism". I didn't say a word and she said:"yeah, I know, it sounds stupid, but it numbs me and I don't feel the pain".

I told her she must learn better coping mechanisms because this one's a killer. I just found out she's been drinking A LONG TIME. Not like the son, but quietly at night in her room, a few bottles of wine. To her, that's not a problem.

Who am I to tell someone they have a problem, if THAT PERSON DOESN'T ADMIT IT TO THEMSELVES'???

She's been to Al-anon with her husband and the husband looked around and said 'we don't belong here, these people are crazy".

So basically she has no one, her son's in the hospital, she has a lousy marriage, and no family.

What a lousy deal.

I gave her the best advice. Go to AA and straighten yourself out. I told him the same.

If they do it, God bless them. If they don't, God Bless them.

And I do thank you for listening. I really wanted to do all I could and I believe I have.

When the train finally crashes that's it.

Can you see the insanity of all this?

It's not your problem. No one can help either of them. They have to WANT to help themselves. Quiting comes from within not from other people.

Okay, GOT A NEW PROBLEM to lay on you!!

The 30 year old alcoholic in the hospital!!! He now thinks he can call me and say stuff like "Would you please tell my mother to get the F out of my business".

I said 'You may get away with that kind of language with your parents, but YOU WILL NOT SPEAK TO ME LIKE THAT!!"

He apologized. But he feels that at 30, his parents should not speak to his doctors, call up the hospital to inquire about his condition, tell him what to do, get in his business, etc. etc.

With the first phone call (I hadn't spoken to this guy in 6 months). I was very diplomatic (I know how to talk to people without being preachy or bullying).

I simply stated "are you sure you want me to convey this to your parents". He went on and said "They have no right talking to my girlfriend, I didn't give them permission to talk to my girlfriend, blah blah".

I then said very quietly "this is the 4th time you've been hospitalized, your parents are very worried and this is natural. Don't you realize this?" He kept bringing up the fact that he's 30 years old, his mother drinks so she has no business telling him to stop drinking (I said "we are not talking about your mother right now, we are talking about YOU).

He said "Well, I'm not drinking right now, am I??" I said "you've done this to yourself 4 times". Your pancreas is shot..the next thing to go is your liver, you obviously need to go to rehab, but that is up to you".

He said: 'just tell my parents to leave me alone, I'm signing myself out, I can leave here if I want (he can't even stand up). I said 'why don't you listen to the doctors and do what THEY tell you".

He replied: '14 doctors said I could go home (that's not true), and 1 doctor wants me on 30 minute antibiotic infusions 2 times a day". I am bored to death, why should I stay here, blah blah".

Alan, then got on the phone and said; "I want to ask you a question, if you saw your mother lying on the road, would you help her or leave her lying on the road??" He said "of course I would help her". Then Alan said "what do you think your parents are trying to do for YOU??"

I then said "Listen to me, you're an addict, you have your own perspective on what's happening, your parents are your parents, they are worried to death about you (his parents have gotten absolutely no help from the social workers, from the doctors, from ANYONE. He can't be made to go to rehab.

His mother told me last night "I have to go to work, I cannot have him come home" Well, I had to tell her that he phoned me and I had to tell her what he said. I said "it's not easy telling parents this message, but do you want to hear what he said?"

She said "please". So I just told her.

Everything that comes out of his mouth is just NOISE. I once watched Intervention, and unless an Addict says "I'm going for help, or I'm going into rehab", then everything else that comes out of his mouth is just NOISE!!

All this guy is spouting is just noise.

He just called me again this morning. He said "Melody, please tell my parents to leave me alone, they just came to my hospital room, and they yelled at me, I want them to leave me alone, I'm 30 years old, I can make my own decisions.

I just said "Your decision making has not been working for you, has it??" I then said 'Please listen, you need to stop drinking and only you can make this happen, not your mother, not your father, not anybody, only you".

He said 'Why can't everybody just leave me alone"? I said "when your parents adopted you 30 years ago, they brought you into the house and they loved you and took care of you, I was there from the beginning". He said "they never gave me anything, I worked for it all".

I said 'you forget one thing, I was there from the day they brought you into the door, you have a perception of life that is screwed up because of your thinking. Perhaps one day, if you get clear in your head and all this is out of your system, then you can look at your parents and really see what's going on and what your behavior has done"?

He said 'but how can my mother tell me to stop drinking, she drinks, and she blames me for her drinking".

I then said the following:

"you are absolutely right. When we put something into our mouths, we do it, no one else does it for us, so your mother can't tell you to stop drinking, BUT I WILL SAY ONE THING, .....YOUR MOTHER HAS NOT BEEN HOSPITALIZED 4 TIMES WITH A SWOLLEN PANCREAS, SWOLLEN LIVER, NEEDED INFUSIONS, ETC. ETC. AM I MAKING MYSELF CLEAR HERE??

He then said "she's on the other line, I have to go, I'll call you later".

I believe I have said it all and I have no more to add.

When he calls me back, do you think the following would be a good idea?

"I've said what I have to say, I think you should go into rehab and I don't want to be redundant, have a nice day, then I should say good bye BUT not just hang up the phone, but wait and see if he gets my point.

Or do you think I should say this and hang up.

Is there a better way to phrase this?

Thanks much
P.S. Sorry if I got the two phone calls mixed up. One was last night and one was 30 minutes ago. Essentially each phone call was the same. He wants it his way, and he doesn't see it anyone else's way!!!

(I really think I've made my point and I shouldn't have to add anything else, right??)

I certainly don't have all the answers. I can see your point about it's his mother and all, BUT......if he feels they are overbearing, then he has a right to feel that way!

Obviously, he is drowning out his anger with the alcohol. Dying a slow and painful death!

Yeah, if he wants boundaries around his parent's involvement in his life.....swollen pancreas or not, he has a right to personal boundaries.

I've had to separate from my own mother for a bit this summer.....I NEED to! My own personal wellness!!! She's a wonderful woman, and no I would never leave her on the side of the road, BUT....like your friend there....I'm in my early 30's with my own family, I don't need her being overly involved in my own life. And yeah...even while attempting sobriety....she's not clean and sober like I am trying to be.

Your friend has some valid points! He has a right to validation for his anger.

Co-dependency lead to more and more drama.....

Why does it seem like you are trying to mediate this family??? {don't mean to sound harsh in tone with that....}

I know this woman since she's 21 years old. She lost a child in her youth and we've been friends. I also lost my own son to addiction. I have found productive ways to deal with stress and we speak on the phone every day. She has asked me what she should do and my answer has always been "go to Al-anon meetings".

I'm not trying to mediate anything. He now calls me thinking I will turn on his mother. I told him the truth and I stand behind what I said.

There is a difference between being a friend to someone and being a co-dependant.

You probably get the impression that I am trying to mediate because I came here asking for advice on what to say to the kid if he calls me again.

I didn't want to say the wrong thing to him.

Oh, just to update, the guy is home, locked up his bedroom and won't talk to anyone. He signed himself out against doctor's orders. He is swollen, can barely walk and his eyes are bugging out of his head.

He is a very sick individual who won't listen to anyone.

The fact that he could die is a very frightening thing for EVERYONE to even think about.

You did what you had to do to separate yourself from your mother. In this particular case, the guy wants his parents to leave him alone .....then he comes home and lives in their house, expects them to wait on him hand and foot, make him meals, and then he shouts to the world "don't get in my business??!!!

I don't think so.

And let me ask you a question. You say it sounds like I'm trying to mediate this family. What do you think an interventionist does. He speaks to the people involved and gives them the information to deal with whatever they have to deal with and gives them the tools to work with.

My friend knew that I went through much of this with my own son and she knew I went to Gamblers Anonymous, and that I even have my forum and I help other parents.

I see nothing wrong with helping people if they ask for it. But only if they ask for it.

Tell me exactly step by step how she can do this. No one will help her. The law is on his side. She has asked cops, judges, social workers, absolutely everyone. They say he's not breaking the law. It's his domicile so he can live there.

I completely agree that she should not cook for him, buy him anything or cater to him. But (and this is where I'm completely lost). He called me two hours ago telling me she is driving him crazy telling him he can't drink in his own house.

I just said "you need to go to rehab".

She called me (I heard her voice and I knew immediately that she had been drinking).

I said 'how on earth can you rationalize what you did tonight?" Your son is an alcoholic, you are trying to get him into rehab, and you are on the phone with me and you've been drinking??, are you out of your mind??"

She said "Well I don't know, I don't know any other way to cope".

I then said "I cannot help either of you, you need to get help as much as he does".

I then said: "you cannot tell anyone not to drink when you've been drinking, do you not see the illogic in doing this".

She said 'yes I know".

I then said; "have a good night, I have to go".

No one is going to do anything.

She drinks to cope with his drinking!!!

THIS I DO NOT GET!!!

GOOD LORD.

Anyway, I'm not going to post any more because my part in all this is done. I can't help him. I most certainly cannot help the mother (if she's drinking the wine in her room every night just so she can cope with HIS drinking).

It's like a vicious circle.

I've never heard of anything like this in my life.

They all need to go to AA.

Talk about denial!!!

Oh well.

Did my best.

Now it's up to them!!

I do thank all of you for your sage wisdom.

What differentiates when a person is an alcoholic? A very dear friend of mine whom is an alcoholic said: When drinking becomes needing rather than wanting.

I felt she summed it up pretty well. I have taken drinks before, I also grew up with a father that was a 'weekend' alcoholic, most of my uncles were alcoholics, one I never saw sober. When I went out with friends, I didn't have a problem not drinking...I was the designated because I was the non drinker. Because of growing up with alcoholics, I refused to have more than two drinks.

Then my mom got cancer, I went on a binge for about two months, twice a week, mostly on weekends. I realized this was not an answer, I stopped...I will have a glass of wine, until last month it was over 5 years that I drank anything at all. The occasion for the last month glass of wine...a celebration...

My father put it rather plainly once...If you like drinking, don't do it!!
I have seen what it does to people, friends and family. MelodyL, I think your friends need some serious counseling, and I hope things work out for them.

You people that have been sober, even for 7 days...

HOORAY!!!! HOORAH!!! Remember you have people on your side!!!

My DH will not admit it, but he is an alcoholic...he drinks every day and as soon as he gets off work.

Melody.....I think Mommas kids said somthing so correct....this family needs councelling. For your own sanity...because an alcoholic can strip you of that...I would suggest that to this family the next time any of then contact you. In councelling they will help her see what she is doing to enable the drinking to continue and correct it!! She would be amazed at how she will feel by taking that kind of control!!
I am so tired...need to go to bed..will pop in in the morning!!
Love you all oodles and bunches...:grouphug:

Obviously this guy in rehab hasn't reached HIS bottom yet.

Personally, I don't believe in rehab. I think people go into rehab FOR other people and not for themselves. Forget Outpatient rehab, what a joke that is.

He is an Alcoholic Period. He has to want to stop for HIS Own reasons not for reasons fed to him by others.

It's nice that people love him and care about what's happening to him but really that has nothing to do with the little person inside his body who CRAVES Alcohol. That little person is calling all the shots as long as he drinks. His little voice is louder than anyone outside him.

Let this guy fall. Leave him alone. Stop giving him advice, he isn't going to listen anyway. You are just wasting your breath. HE has to come to this decision on his own BY himself. If he does drink himself to death it's not his fault, he is an Alcoholic. Like I have said before, there are some people who just never get it, they can't grasp the concept of "Just don't drink TODAY".

If you do speak to him again just ask him: "Can you go ONE day without a drink?" See what he says. Pouring alcohol down his throat IS the problem. Stop that and things will improve. Things are just so much worse DRUNK.

I will add in case you didn't read this before, I am in my 16th year of Sobriety and I drank for 20+ years daily. So I DO know what I am talking about.

And sometimes, like your later post hints at.....you have to 'let go' ...

They ALL need help in that household. Came to you, got your emotions involved and then did what alcoholics do best...ignored your advice, because it didn't fall into their desire to drink catagory!

Of course you want to care, you've known these people for years! Of course you want to intervene, but neither one of them are able to look at themselves and realize that they BOTH are contributing to this fiasco.

She's "blaming" her son for her drinking....that's a sign of "denial" in my book....

Best of Luck on your detachment from this family!:hug:

Melody I am so sorry, I know this must be so agonizing for you. You are watching your friend suffer. Watching her son kill himself. You are frantically trying to be the glue that holds them together and it is hard. Now they have engaged you in their drama and I know it is terribly painful and that you must feel so helpless.

I hate to say this but there is nothing you can do. It sounds terribly selfish but for your own sake let your friend know that when she is sober you will be there for her and she can call then but not to rant and rave about her son, when she is ready to do what needs to be done to set her life on the right path that you are more than ready to be there for her. Tell her son to stop calling you. He does not want to follow the rules then find a new place to live. There is nothing you can do for him. He is the only one, not you, not his mother, not his girlfriend, only he can make the call.

You ask if a friend were laying in the road would you get them out, what if as soon as you got them out they continue to crawl back, over and over and the semi gets closer and closer and your family is standing at the side of the road watching. Would you continue?

It is an insidious disease, I know I have been battling it for 26 years.

Hello there Christina!!!! Welcome to our little corner of Neurotalk!!! I do hope that you will continue posting!! It may not be the busiest forum but we care about each other and we do understand each other!!!
If you feel like it share a little about yourself!!! I will be away camping from Mon to Friday so I hope noone feels like I am deserting them because I will be back...I love it here!!! Good to meet you Christina!!:hug:

Thank you Dorrie, I'm not really new I guess. I have been lurking for a long time and post very infrequently. I will not be rude and hijack Melody's thread so will make my own intro. Actually I see my New Here thread is still on the list from a ways back so I guess I won't need to lol.

Hope you have a great trip.

Hi Mama Mel:hug:
The members of this forum are so correct!
No one can help this fellow right now. He has to truly want to get better...untill then..nothing will help other than people in his life seriously washing their hands of him! That could really help but again...he has to want to stop.
I have had several sponsees in AA. One has almost 7 years of sobriety and one just does not get it. The first one was obviously ready. The second one has Childrens Aid Society on her butt so she attends on occasion but she does not want to get sober. She has lost her 2 girls now...their dad ha full custody. Her son has been placed in foster care for months before. He is back home and she has a baby now who is 10 months old....she is not allowed with her kids on her own. She is so close to losing these beautiful children and it still does not stop her. Her mom lives with her and she takes full advantage of her. Years ago when I was drinking daily my brother walked in my home and took my son away from me....I kept drinking. I used to go to the bar when my kids were both under 10 years old. I used to put a note on the back of the front door saying I would not be long I was out doing something very important. I would roll in around 4 or 5 am. Anything could have happened...but I needed to drink. I did alot of terrible things that I do not feel I need to discuss but they were bad and it did not matter because I could not think of anything else. I never even went to any events at school...not even meet the teacher night!! My kids friends were terrified of me!!
Melody...you are such a caring lady....it is hard to wash your hands of friends but we can keep the faith that they will one day get better.
These people do not know how fortunate they are to have you in their lives...I hope the day comes when they come to you for real help...in the meantime they greatest thing you can do is distance yourself and let it unfold the way it is supposed to!!! Some would say "Get outta the way and let them fall!!!"
I love ya Mel you dear sweet lady!!:hug::hug::hug:

Dorrie:

If I could distance myself from my own son, believe me I can do this with ANYONE ELSE!!!

I already told her that I won't be discussing drinking any more with her and I won't be receiving any more ranting and raving phone calls from her son.

Nothing is going to change.

She's a co-dependant, in a lousy marriage, and she drinks to cope. Her husband does not believe in Al-anon, and the son won't go to rehab or to AA.

That is their business, now isn't it??

I believe that doing toxic things to one's body, well you pay for it later on. If it doesn't kill you, it surely will destroy you.

The other day I spoke to a friend who lost a brother-in-law last week to lung cancer. He was only 55 years old. He was a life long smoker and once he got the diagnosis, of course, he quit. He did the chemo, radiation, and they removed the lung.

Guess what he did one week after the operation?? He started smoking again.

I just looked at her and said "that's the most illogical thing I have ever heard". She said: 'well, he died last week, so he didn't learn did he??"

I just stood there.

So if one can pick up a cigarette one week after they take out one of your lungs, then I can only wonder how hard it is for anybody else TO FIGHT ANY ADDICTION.

It must really change one's brain chemistry, (all the cravings I mean).

Yes Melody it really is something...in AA they say alcohol is cunning baffling and powerful...they are not kidding!
All that aside...I am heading out in the morning for our camping trip so I do not know if I will have time to drop in later today. I hope you have a lovely week Melody!! I am going to leave all of my stress here....no worrying allowed I have told myself!!!!
Can't wait to see what Saffire thinks of camping. I think she will love it....she loves the outdoors, swimming and sand and she definitely loves to get dirty!:hug::hug::hug::hug:

WE all TRY to make sense of these things but addiction is Illogical. Like Love, the heart wants what it wants and you can't argue with yourself NOT to Love someone. Just slap the label "ADDICTION" on it. It takes conviction to get over an addiction AND determination to stop it. The addiction is always there whether you stop or not. Even when a person stops drinking. That little person inside of you just sits there waiting for you to get him going again. The bottle is patient too, it is waiting for you too. That is why we can NOT even have a sip or even a drop of alcohol, it's starts the whole thing rolling again. I don't even want to SMELL it. That gets the wheels in my brain cranking again. Just like everyone Alcoholic. I think we are just born this way. :(

Yeah, I really believe that this is something we are born with :(

I like what you say about needing conviction to get over the addiction and determination to stop it!

Compulsions are what I like to refer to life's little 'obsessions' --whether they be alcohol, tobacco, food, gambling, et al. It is certainly is a daily struggle to overcome any self-defeating behavior...takes guts, and good support!

I'm glad to have found this little niche on-line :grouphug:

Because of my drinking I had burned every Possible bridge so the ONLY support I got was AA and I hated meetings but I went 3 times a day for the first 6 months. Then once a day for a the next 3 or 4 years then I tapered off. I haven't been to a meeting in well over 10 years. BUT if you LEARN the tools of the program of AA inside out and USE them, they DO work.

My bff almost lost her daughter due to a mess up drinking(really bad) I credit AA
]with getting her back up on her feet. She has been doing daily(if she can)
meetings for months now and the people and support have been amazing.

The GAL who is investigating and writing a report for court has found
her to be the best parent for her daughter with weekend visitation for
dad. I hope and pray she continues on the path that she is on now.

Im amazed how AA has taught her to hold her head up, take responsibility
for all she has done, and move on in the right direction. Im really proud
of her.:)

So thanks AA.:)