Need some help here
 

I posted this on the Spinal Disorders forum and haven't had any feedback, any of you have any comments?

I have been suffering with my back and sacroiliac joints for a long time. I have diagnosed Sjogrens Syndrome and Seronegative Spondylarthropathy. I suffer with major pain on the left side and walk with a limp. I just had an MRI of the sacroilliac joints that said the "sacroiliac joints are patent. No sacral nerve root lesions or masses are appreciated. There is no visible presacral soft tissue mass." Impression was : Normal MRI of the sacrum. and.....

MRI of the lumbar and sacral spine: Everything was fine until "L4-5: Small 1-2 mm posterolateral bulges which do not enhance are present within each posterolateral region: however, they do not cause significant canal stenosis or neural foraminal encroachment. L5-S1: A 4mm paracentral disk protrusion with mild central canal stenosis and probable right S1 nerve root impingement."

The bone scan of the knee is fine. No loose parts. Whew, dodged that bullet.

The facet joints that were severely degenerating according to the MRI done in Dec. at the Neuro's request in Dallas, were not even mentioned.

I don't know what to think. What I get from the above info is...everything's fine. But I can't walk, can't stand up, walk with a limp, sit down groaning like an old woman. My back and knee hurt! So blast it, everything is not fine! Not sure what to do next. And on top of all this...musn't forget, the neuropathy. I don't see the doctor who ordered these until Monday week. The doctor at the pain clinic gave these to me.

Now from this, I'm getting...no real problem. I don't understand. Can anyone enlighten me? Is there a problem I'm not seeing in the report. I know it says probable right S1 nerve root impingement. My right side doesn't hurt except for the sensory feelings in my leg and foot. It's the left side that hurts.

Anything?
Billye

Hi Billye
 

Were the second MRI's done at the same facility, or did they have the first MRI's for comparison? If not, and this is just my opinion, I would take all films back and ask them to be reread, compare and refer to the changes, if there are any...

Cathie

Of course I can't medically evaluate what you posted, but I know that floating helps relieve pressure all over your body and reduces defensive muscle spasms (like in the sacroiliac joint). If you can get to a comfortably warm (not hot!!!) pool, spa, hot tub, floatation tank, or even large enough bathtup to float, like a Jacuzzi, it would be worth a try. If you don't have a hot tub, maybe a friend or neighbor would be willing to help you out. I hesitate to suggest or use a public pool because by law they use a lot of chlorine, not too good for our PN.

Gentle micro-electric stimulation, like from a TENS unit or ReBuilder across the painful area can provide a lot of pain relief and promotes healing.

If the area feels hot (maybe hubby can tell you), cold packs would relieve the inflammation and reduce pain. Try 20 minutes of cold, 20 of gentle warmth or room temperature, followed by 20 more of cold. Repeat as often as you want to.

If the area doesn't feel warm, warm packs can relax the muscles. Don't get it too hot. You can actually harm the tissues without feeling pain with too much heat. You can use warm packs or heating pads for long periods of time if they provide relief.

Professional athletes often alternate heat and cold for an hour or two to relieve pain and promote blood flow and healing. Just be gentle with this.

In my experience and from all I've read, if it feels good, relieves pain during and after, and isn't toxic (like many or most drugs), it is healing.

Hang in there Billye. You are my hero and inspiration.

A thought
 

My husband had back problems this past August - sore back with pain going down his left leg. Our doctor, who is an Osteopath, sent him for some physical therapy. After a month of going three times a week, he is fine now.

Have you ever tried this type of therapy?

Diana

Billye, I have big problems with my cervical spine even had to retire from work because of it, the only thing that really helped me was Magnets.
I don't mean those magnetic pillows or magnetic underlays and all that rubbish [ my opinion] i mean really strong magnets placed on the sore area with a piece of molesskin placed on the skin before putting the magnet in place, if you don't use the moleskin you can get a magnetic burn , they increase circulation and i believe that they take care of the inflamatory problem as well.

My mother was going to a chiropractor twice a week, for a very arthritic lower spine problem[s], it would just go on her and she just couldn't move, since i have been putting strong magnets on here, its been 12 months since she's been back to the chiropractor that was happily charging $100 a week off a pensioneer, he's has been sending letter after letter for ages saying its essential that he adjust her spine again, what a joke.
I wouldn't pay anymore than $5.00 for 1 good strong magnet.

all the best
Brian :)

Wow I hit the jackpot
 

I didn't know I was a hero, David. Thanks for that sweetness.

To answer questions: Cathie, no the first films were done here and the others were done in Dallas. They had the recent xrays which showed the facet deterioration. I need to take the report of those xrays and the MRI report done in Dallas to them and then ask them to be re-read with that info to support. Criminey! We have to do everything don't we. Even I knew that MRI wasn't complete. Can you have inflammation without bone problems with RA? I'm not sure.

David, I have access to the heated pool at the Y but no way to float. I don't float or swim since the knee surgery. Seems you lose that ability when you put artificial joints in. I know others with the same discovery. And the pool really isn't warm enough to relax. I will try the heat to see if it will help. I stay so cold all of the time that ice doesn't appeal to me. And the neuropathy doesn't like things very hot so I'll try a heating pad on low.

DLShaffer, I am too weak for physical theraphy. I can't walk accross the room without stumbling and holding on to a wall or furniture. Long story...

Brian, I have a set of the good medical magnets I actually got on EBay. I've never used them. I didn't know where to or how to. How long do you leave them on? We had a thread on magnets on the old board. Wish I had it now.

Thanks everyone for the help. I'll make it.
Love,
Billye

Brian, I have a set of the good medical magnets I actually got on EBay. I've never used them. I didn't know where to or how to. How long do you leave them on? We had a thread on magnets on the old board. Wish I had it now.

Its pretty simple stuff Billye, must be, i can do it :D
Wherever the pain is, thats were you put them, if its a big area, then place a few around that area, when your ready to put a few magnets on, before hand, place them on a table making sure the magnets are well apart from each other, slowly push one of them very slowly towards the nearist magnet, be carefull if there strong ones, as they can slam together and if your fingers are in the way :eek: it really hurts, as you get closer and the other magnet you are heading towards, if it moves away from the one that you are pushing, thats great, then thats the way you put them on your body.
If they attract to each other on the table [wrong] see if then you put them on your skin that way up, they will work their way loose and go flying [ smashing ]onto the other magnet[s]
Its a lot easier if hubby could place them onto you, its difficult trying to do your spine by your self.
Don't forget the moleskin, strong magnets can leave a real " red " magnetic burn on your skin, you will need a good strong adhersive tape, something that's water proof is good, just in case you sweet they might fall off you.
I usally leave them in the same spot for about 3 days, you might find that the pain has moved away from the origanal spot, well then of course place them on the sore spot, i have found that it takes a few hours before you notice any relief, the longer their aloud to work the better it normal is.
good luck
Brian :)

All my husband did was lie on a table while the PT basically worked (rubbed) on his back and concentrated rubbing and massaging the area that was the problem. I was hoping this might be an option for you.:(

Diana

I should have added, just in case someone else may be reading this and has soreness elsewere,
Never Ever put then near your throught or if the person has a pace maker or any other similar device DO NOT USE THEM.

Billye,
My wife has 'spurs' on her disc's all over her spine. they've probably been there a long time- but we didn't know til an x-ray showed them when she was hospitalized for back pain and on a morphine drip for 2 days.
The docs said there was nothing to be done, surgery not indicated. Therapy probably best. WRONG !!
Magnets were her lifesaver.
She found someone who knew someone that heard of someone......etc. Long story short- Nikkon was where she wound up (its on the web). She's a RN manager & on her feet a lot. She uses the shoe inserts (claims its good for both feet & back-something to do with magnetic flow thru the iron in the blood [!?]) and wears a rectangular magnetic 'plate' about 6"x10" (some are smaller too) on her lower back. 24/7 !!- sleeping too !. There are various methods to put a layer of thin fabric (between 2 pr of undies, etc) between the magnet & skin. she just uses what's most comfortable with what she's gonna wear.
Anyway......... she went from being incapacitated & on sick leave, to working normally without much back pain at all (she doesn't complain much at all now). She doesn't have to rely on anything but the magnets. Swears by them. She's careful; about lifting and straining her back, but does all the normal grocery shop ;), clothes shopping :(.,shoe buying ;), etc- & carrying the packages home, that any one else can do.
Says its all about the magnets & the docs just scratch their heads (and don't have any answers).
Voilà! Magic! After about the 1st week she felt some improvement. Then gradual improvement until she doesn't even think about her back- but has a magnet therapy on her feet and back every day. Jury still out ? Not for her !
She even became a 'distributor' (costs about $100 to the Nikkon 'people')so she could get more at cost for family & friends- never 'sold' just took orders and they repaid her. She hasn't done that for a year or two. But she's been wearing those danged magnets for about 5 years, now. Just "swears by 'em".

Nikons
 

Nikons are what I have. There are three of those things. I bought them on eBay still in the original box and they look like they have never been used. But there weren't any instructions in the box. They are the original Nikon magnets and very strong. So they have sat for about a year now. As soon as I can take the bandage off my back from the last set of injections (to the facets) that didn't work, I'll be trying them for awhile. Thanks Brian and Bob for the help.

It would be nice if I could get one area to quit hurting.

Billye

billye.....was your MRI standing or lying?.....

It was lying down. I've never seen one where it was done standing. Wow!

Every one I've ever had done was done in a tube with me flat on my back.

Billye

Billye,

I've been thinking about your response to the suggestion that cold may help your back pain if inflammation is part of the problem. Heat or other energy is contraindicated where inflammation is present. It may actually increase inflammation and make the swelling and muscle spasming worse. Without knowing for sure, I'd guess that a strong magnetic field would have the same negative effect if inflammation is present.

The pain reducing, swelling reducing, and healing effect of cold packs can be dramatic. I was a serious recreational runner and backpacker for about 20 years and had my share of injuries, aches, and pains. Ice packs were the first thing I used for instant pain relief and quick healing.

Cold can't hurt you, and may dramatically help. Cold promotes healing because it increases blood flow while it reduces spasms and inflammation. At the same time, pain is reduced because cold shuts down the nerves in the area. I found that if inflammation was involved in the pain, the cold felt good after the initial shock. To reduce the initial cold shock, wrap the ice pack in a single or double layer dish towel when first applying.

For safety, don't use the blue cold packs you put in the freezer. If your freezer is, let's say -10 F. degrees, you can get frostbite. Safer, cheaper, and gentler are ice packs you make yourself. Fill a quart size clear plastic freezer bag 3/4 full with ice cubes. Add some water to make a nice semi-floppy containter that will conform to your body shape. The water mixed in prevents any possibility of frost bite because it rapidly warms the ice cubes to exactly 32 F. degrees. Double bag the pack to prevent leaks, and enjoy for 20 minutes on, 20 off, then 20 on again. The pain reduction should occur within minutes as the cold moves deeper. The area will feel cool to the touch but you'll experience warmth and comfort in the area as soon as it is totally cooled down, and when you remove the pack. The pain relief will last for hours, or even all day.

If this works on you as good for you as it does for me, ice packs will become your first line defense for inflamatory pain.

billye, there is a stand up mri near me. ( dfw area ) i can pm you the name and the address if you want it. i drive past it taking lil'monkey to the ortho. :)

Curious and Wingss
 

Thanks David for all the info about cold packs. I will certainly try them. And it makes since that the magnets might be a problem when there is inflammation involved. I'll report back in. (probably more than you want to hear)

Curious...I've pm'd you. Thanks so much. I didn't even know these things existed.

Billye

mri vs xray
 

Silverlady--

My mri and xray reports are similar to yours, inasmuch as the xrays are read with great detail to findings in bone, while the mri emphasizes the cord, disks, and nerves. I'm not sure, but I think the reason for this might be that the Xray ONLY sees the bone, and that's what the radiologist is going to focus on in the report. The MRIs are usually done to see if there is herniated disk or pressure on a nerve root, and that's what the radiologists pay attention to there. I googled MRI vs CT (CT uses regular xrays and MRI vs XRAY didn't get results) and, sure enough, CT is used for bone and MRI for soft tissue as well as bone. For some things, CT is preferred (looking at the sinuses, for instance).

Why were regular xrays done on you? Usually, they aren't done much anymore, except maybe to look for fractures. Seems to me that most people I know either get CT scans or MRIs. My doctors do regular xrays of my spine to look for slippage of one vertebrae over the other--the spondylolithesis that was the probably RESULT of arthritis, and CAUSE of the spinal cyst which was the probable cause of much of my pn.

I know I've asked before, but pardon, I don't remember the answer---have you had bending xrays?

David, mate magnets will decrease inflamation, thats why they work so well with people with arthritic problems.
for example - i will be facing hip surgery very soon, the orthoapedic surgeon had previously orderded steriod injections into my hip to decrease the inflamation whilst waiting for surgery, because its bone on bone now, it is bad and the steriods really helped but the benefits didn't last for very long, this is crippling pain i am talking about, anyone thats had hip surgery will know what i am taking about, so in desperation i thought i would try some really strong magnets in my groin area and other accupunture points usally used for hip pain hoping to relieve some pain at least.
I put them on before i went to bed and in the morning i was walking with no pain whats so ever, i couldn't believe it myself, and i will continue to wear them until the operation is done, sure beats those drugs that have some awfull side affects.
all the best
Brian :)
I wish i had shares in Magnet companies :)

Brian,

What are mate magnets? A google search turned up nothing. Do you have links to research and/or vendors? Are they safe? How long have you been using the magnets and how often?

As far as safety, I'll stick with the idea that if it's not obviously toxic like a drug and it feels good and relieves pain, it probably is safe and healing.
=========
How funny! I just realized that you were speaking Aussie.:rolleyes:

So, I'll change my questions. What type of magnets do you use and how powerful? You mentioned a low price. Do you have a link to the vendor? We all could use practical, specific advice with something that's worked for one of us. Thanks mate.

check your pm box. :D i hope it's not too far for you.

David, every good bloke is called " mate " over here :) sorry, i forgot i wasn't talking to another Aussie, although that does sound like a great name for a magnet company," mate magnets " :D
I have been using them for a very long time, i guess 15 years or so but i could be wrong it may have been 20 years i am not real sure, but i am sure that they have worked on me and others i have helped as well.
I haven't even looked for any evidence on the net for any medical trials, other opinions, simply because i have had no reason to, i know what they have done for me and others.
The strength of the magnet is the key to success, i like to use rare earth magnets, should be able to pick one up for no more than about 5 bucks.
I get mine here - http://magnet-eze.com.au/ - double click on rare earth magnets, run down the page and the ones i get are item red-203, $4 each, guass 3,000, they work really well for me and i am sure that you could buy the very same thing in the USA.
They are not safe to use if you have a pacemaker or any other similar device, nor are they safe to put anywere near your throat, other wise as far as i know they are safe.
A magnetic burn can happen, especially when your using strong magnets to put a small piece of moleskin on your skin before the magnet gets stuck on, i use a strong waterproof adhersive tape that keeps them on well, i usually leave them on for 3 days, take them off and move them slightly to a differant position, as you may find that the actual pain has moved too.
Brian :)

link to old thread...
 

We had a discussion about magnets on the old board:
Here is a cached link:
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:...&ct=clnk&cd=30

most of the best stuff was on that page.

Thanks Mrd D, for our old link,

There is one area of safety that i am not sure of, as magnets being safe to use.
This is people that have had metal screws or plates surgical placed on whatever place of the body, good quality stainless steel should not attract to a magnetic force, or good quality alluminum should not attract either, i am not sure what types of metal the ortho's use, i would guess they wouldn't use anything with any steel, but i am not sure and i would think that this is a question that surgeon could answer properly.

Brian

any kind of
 

implanted electrical device would be a problem I would think.

And they are becoming more common.

I personally cannot tolerate magnets on the neck or on the head. They make
me dizzy. Even the small ones. So I don't recommend them there, since they must be stimulating some nerves for me.. and who knows what nerves other people are having problems with?

But I do use them on the hands and legs/feet for severe pain. I've had them for years. Worked really well with my broken toe, no swelling/no throbbing pain.
The podiatrist was surprised to see the xray, the 2nd day after, when the toe
looked normal..even the nail was not bad, but it did fall off later. They require alot of experimentation, and moving around to find the best place. Not unlike the Lidoderms that way;)

still up in the air
 

Liza Jane,
The xrays were done with me laying on my back but twisting (knee over to opposite side, both ways). The MRI was of course flat on my back.

So Brian and David, did you decide if I could use the magnets or not?

Billye

Yes Mrs D, if its reffered pain it can be a bit tricky, i have had terrible knee pain but the problem is really comming from my bad hip, put some magnets on my hip and the knee pain went, if you know were the appropiate accupunture points are, that really helps too, but the general rule is were its sore is were you put them [normaly].

I would definatly try them, magnets will reduce inflamation.

I'm not knowledgable enough about magnets to give advice, and haven't tried them myself. I do have two little magnets that I may try if I can separate them. How two one inch diameter disks can hold onto each other with so much power is beyond me.:cool:

David, the trick in seperating them is to hold the bottom one tight then push sliding the top one off the bottom one usualy works, they do sound like good ones.

____"has a magnet on her feet and back everyday___"

Bob B.,

What kind of magnetic therapy does she use for the feet? Is it a magnetic shoe insert? What is the strength of the magnet? Cost?

Carlie

__________________________________________________ _____________

"Get knocked down 7 times. Get up 8 times".