Did I do the right thing??
 

Hi all!!

I now need your help about another matter. Different people altogether.

I have a friend who lives around the corner. Known her for 17 years. She nips (everyone knows it but we say nothing because she lost her son on 9/11).

However, her husband is an alcoholic. And they do drink and drive.

Well tonight..something happened and I need some input as to whether or not I did the right thing.

Here's what happened.

I'm walking down the block (going back to my home), and my other friend says 'who is in that car, he's been in that car for one hour with the car running".

I said "I'll check it out on my way to my home".

Well, as I pass, I see it's my friend's husband and he's sound asleep in the car (with the motor running and all the windows closed).

I said to myself 'didn't I read where a person is not supposed to be in the car with the windows rolled up and the motor is on??"

I began to walk to my house around the corner when I said "Oh shoot, you can't just leave him in the car, what if he dies".

So I gingerly walked up to the car and rapped on the window. No reaction. I pounded on the door, no reaction. I did it a few times and he opened his eyes and I knew immediately he was completely soused. And I mean completely.

I said brightly "hi there, I just want to make sure you are okay"

He rolled down the window and I immediately knew he had the air conditioner blasting in the car. It's 90 here in Brooklyn, NY. Also, he didn't know me. He didn't know where he was.

I said "please turn off your car" He didn't understand me. I again said "Please turn off your car". and he said "why??"

I then said "well, I don't want you falling asleep again with the motor running, I don't think it's safe, and you might wake up tomorrow with a dead battery".

He just looked at me (he never picked up his head off of his chest), and he turned off the ignition.

He then said 'okay???" and I said 'Terrific". I then said "are you coming, or going??" He then tried to point to his house.

I said 'Oh, you're going inside??" and he nodded.

I then opened up the driver's side door and said 'okay, why not just go into the house and go to sleep (this was 8 P.M.)

He said "okay". I said goodbye, continued walking, and I looked back.

He closed the door again, turned on the car (well the lights were on) and just stayed there.

I honestly did not know what to do.

I know he's okay because the air conditioning was on, and every night his son walks their giant German Shephard, and other people are on this block. It's well trafficked.

I really did what I could.

I won't mention this to his wife, I would never want to embarrass her. She knows he drinks, there are always beer cans all over the house, so EVERYBODY drinks. It got worse after 9/11.

So did I do everything I should have done?

I want to know just in case I run into this again.

Thanks very much.

Melody

If he was in a closed building with the motor running then he could get carbon monoxide poisoning.

Was the wife or a family member home??
Suggest they take him in the house?
And take away his keys....
I would be concerned he might wake up enough to try to drive:eek:
Or call police to check on him...it might get him on the road to some help or a wake up call anyway...
I don't know if sitting in a running car & being drunk as a skunk is legal or illegal- cops might think it is illegal as person might try to drive.

Well, it's the next day, and I just walked around the corner and the car was still there and there was NO ONE in front or gossiping (so that's how I know somebody put him inside the house).

Now I have a dilemma. Do I tell the wife? She's a very nice woman who is dealing with a great sadness ever since 9/11. They never got over this loss.

But is it my business to tell her the next time I see her (Hey guess what happened? I found your husband dead drunk in the car).

I don't think anyone would welcome such a piece of news. I know how to speak to a person. I definitely know how to talk as to not to make some one uncomfortable. But I risk her being so embarassed that she'll just walk away and might never speak to me again.

She's a very very nice person who has had to deal with such loss.

I don't want to add to her dismay. She knows her husband is an alcoholic. They all are in that family. They are always bringing home cartons of beer. I see this all the time.

But is it MY business to stick my nose in to someone else's business.

They might say "oh go f yourself, it's not your concern"

See my dilemma??

I once saw the wife coming home from work (she's a para in a school). She parked the car (I was watching to see if she had one too many). Sure enough she staggered just a bit. I know her, I know what she does. I know what she drinks.

But you should not drink and drive. Of course I know this.

She looked at me, smiled and we had a perfectly normal conversation.

Actually I have never seen her when she is completely sober. With the school days over, I guess she has more time to take a nip now and then. I gather this is her right.

She has 2 sons left and a daughter and she has grandchildren who she adores.

But she and her husband are alcoholics and I gather they don't want to stop drinking.

I went to two funerals when her son died. One before they found his body, and one afterwards.

Such sadness in one family is overwhelming, this I know.

But people should never get behind the wheel when they are inebriated...this I know also.

I'm in a quandry here.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Mel

I'd just let it roll off your back. What if she already knows? You never know....

The drinking part is a separate issue, since it sounds they all drink in the family.
It's the drinking/driving issue that is more of a concern to me.

If he or anyone was that drunk and walking the street carrying a gun what would you do?
Just leave him alone or call police?
A car can be as deadly as a gun right?
That's how I would look at the situation if it happened again.

Innocent people could get hit & killed if he tried to drive in the condition he was in.
He might have just gotten home from somewhere or was planning to go somewhere but passed out instead.

That's exactly what I think happened.
So do I tell the wife or do I just chalk it up to a happening that I witnessed and if it happens again, I'll ring the bell and say "uh, your dad is asleep and the car is on".

thanks
Mel

I think Melody that I wouldn't bother with the mentioning of it this time. She obviously knows. The next time though that you happen to find him in that position and not getting an answer on first tries I would quietly open the door, roll down the window if it is hot and turn off the car and ring the bell and let them know or if it is late put his keys in their mailbox. He may have to beat on his door or ring the bell a few times to get in but that is better than him coming to and driving off. Then the next morning just go over ring the bell and very calmly and keeping it brief say I put your husband's keys in the mailbox because I was concerned for his safety and the safety of others. Make his safety first so they will take less offense even if that is not really how we feel. Called soothing egos. Don't stick around, I am sure they will be embarrassed and do not want to confide and will appreciate your discretion.

Wow, Christina.

I never would have thought of doing what you wrote.

How kind of you to explain this whole Soothing Egos to me.

I just passed their house and the wife and son were on the porch. We chatted briefly. I mentioned nothing. I haven't seen the guy for a few days.

So it's their private matter and I would never intrude.

But thanks so much.

If it DOES happen again, I shall do exactly what you wrote.

Thanks so much for the lesson.

I learn stuff every day on these boards.

Stay well.

Mel

I do believe that legally drunk, behind the wheel, car running or not is grounds for arrest.

I guess if you KNOW the person and want to help, if it was me I'd have pushed him over to passenger's side and got in and driven him home THEN leave the keys with his wife.

But that's just me. I always do the wrong thing and get crucified later for it.

Can't drive him home because he was parked right in front of his own house.

Can't drive him home BECAUSE I DON'T DRIVE!!!

And I completely understand you when you say "I always do the wrong thing and get crucifed later for it".

These kinds of scenarios always end up with hurt feelings, people being embarrassed and later on, they can't look you in the face and you wind up losing friendships. How sad when this happens.

But that's life.

We just have to look at each situation and try and do the right thing.

If this happens again, I know what to do.

Let's just hope it doesn't happen again.

Sigh!!!!

Yeah you said he was right by his house, otherwise if it was someone you didn't know then I'd of had you call the police. I'd still have taken the keys though while he was snoozing just to keep him from driving off, then called the police. Wouldn't stand next to the car though and announce hey I got your keys if he wakes up. Nothing worse than an angry drunk. Just stand back and enjoy the perplexed search as he wakes and attempts to figure out where his keys are as the police are on their way. Then when they arrive I would give the keys to them and skedaddle. Gee is that how you spell that lol.

A nights entertainment though it is terribly sad.

Yea Skeedaddle. :D ;)

These kinds of situations are difficult. Someone is ALWAYS the badguy. You just can't win. :o But if enough things like this happen and he has to pay the consequenses of his behaviour THEN and only then will he begin to think about the negative effect all this Boozing is causing. Something that touches him a a certain way will turn him around but we never know which thing that is until it happens. It could be something very minor but very basic.

Not me, I would have walked by butt up to the door and calmly told them their loved one is in the car and can't wake up. Simple and to the point. I wouldn't offer that he's drunk or anything else. Just a simple nudge to go get their loved one. Many times once they realize someone else has seen the situation, they will work hard to rectify it.

If they ignored me, then I would have called 911 after I snatched the keys. I don't play with drunk drivers. Nope, not when someone could be killed. If they hate me, oh well, deal with it.

I honestly don't like to get into someone else's business but when it would affect others in a negative way I will. I guess growing up with alcoholics tainted me.

I don't know, how many times have you seen the guy pulled over for drunk driving, no license because it was taken away for drunk driving, some of these guys never learn.

Not long ago I watched a video of some police officers pulling over a guy only to find out he was another officer off duty and higher up the food chain and this was not his first time. He begged them to let him off, it took them over an hour and another commanding officer to make the decision to let him go. The low man on the totem pole didn't want to. But that's how it works.

That's true too Sandy, course you hope that next time he doesn't pull into the garage and pass out with the car running in the hopes that the neighbors don't see him.

Hard call. Everybody reacts differently, most will do nothing at all but whisper to their neighbors about it.

I saw that too. Cops shouldn't be above the law,they should know better than to drive after they have been drinking. I guess with cops it's not what you DO it's WHO you know. :mad:

Yeah well how many cops do you see sitting around the corner from the local bar lying in wait? NONE!! Never understood that. They could finance the entire police force on those tickets alone lol.

I have no way of knowing if this guy has ever been arrested for drunken driving, if he has ever driven drunk, etc.

I know the wife very well, but I just say hi and pass the time of day with the husband. He has had quadruple bypass surgery and almost died last year.

And obviously, that didn't teach him to stop drinking.

Neighbors talk about them sometimes. They feel bad because of the 9/11 thing. So no one will do anything about it. Obviously they CAN'T do anything about it because it's up to the person who drinks to get help right?

I can only imagine if I called the police, and 100 people on that block found out about it. Good Lord, I'd be the pariah of the whole neighborhood.

No, if it does happen again, I'll knock on the door and let them know. And if I have to I'll take the keys out of the ignition. That's a very good idea.

Melody

I think that's best Melody. In a way, by knocking on their door you are saving his life and that of others and they should appreciate that. If it's the "block" like I lived on, in Chicago, I understand your concern over calling the cops. Just do what is in the best interest of the community by telling his wife and family.

BTW, what happened on 9/11 to them? Did they lose a family member or was it just too close for comfort? I remember how affected we were here in the Chicago area so I can only imagine how bad it seemed being so close to it. I had a firefighter friend who worked at the scene and he was never the same.

Well, Hell YEA. Coming through successful heart surgery is a Great reason for an Alcholic to celebrate. :o He probably thinks his new found health will give him many more years of successful drinking. :( But once his liver goes, that's it.

On 9/11, they lost their son (25 years old). He was on the job for one week and he was a painter on the roof of one of the towers.

Before they found remains, I went to the first memorial at our local church. The whole neighborhood showed up and they had his photo blown up on the church altar. That was the saddest thing I ever saw.

Then, when they found some of the remains, she had a funeral (with closed coffin). That was about 6 months after the memorial.

I was with her for the whole thing. She explained how they called her up and she went down and they had photos to show her. The lady who had the photos begged her not to look. I said "did you look"? and she said" "No".

The lady who showed her the photos broke down.

As she was telling me this on the corner of my block, I broke down because who on earth can listen to what this woman went through and not break down?

They all had substance abuse problems before 9/11.

It only got worse after that day.

How sad.

Mel

That is so sad. I remember them talking about the workers who were on the building when it happened. My heart goes out to them.

I hope that someday they remember their son sober and take notice that he would want them to get clean and live life by honoring him. Right now their heartbreak is ruling their lives.

All of us have to wrestle with loss. Eventually we have to find a "comfortable" place to put it in our hearts and minds so we can move on. For everyone it's difficult and some never do. I know it took me years to do that and during that time it did run my life. It's still there but has settled down now. It took a really long time though. Time does help. They are just memories now, not PAINFUL ones.

Interestingly enough, I was coming home from shopping (about 1 hour ago), and I have to pass their house. The husband comes our of the house, straight as a ramrod, (no sign of drinking, but I know this doesn't mean ANYTHING).

I see the keys in his hands and my heart sinks. I think "oh no, he's going to take off", but he got in his car and he backed his car into his driveway and went into the house.

I gather sometimes he's functional and sometimes he's not functional whatsoever.

Another thing, I already posted a thread on these forum, titled 'Trying to help a friend".

She's been drinking because her son drinks. I know, doesn't make sense but it makes sense TO HER.

Well she was sober and clean for 5 days. She was taking it one day at a time.

Last night she calls me, and she sounded just fine, when all of a sudden she goes into a spiel about the Catholic Church and kids and pedophiles, and everybody sucks, and she's going on and on, and it hit me and I said "what happened to the clean and sober for 5 days?" and she said: "yeah, I drank today". I said 'how come?" and she said:

"FEAR"!!

I said "what are you afraid of?" and she said: "That my son is going back to drinking, I mean, he doesn't drink in the house but what do I know what he does when he goes out".

I said "you can only concern yourself with what you do, you have no power over his behavior". I then said 'what made you take the first drink after 5 days of not drinking".

And she said: 'oh, I came home work and said "what the hell, I deserve this"

I said: 'that's one of the things that alcoholics say to rationalize their drinking".

She said "Oh I know this".

So I guess she's back to square one. After 5 days.

Really hard isn't it???

mel

Very hard. I don't even remember how many times I stopped only to start again a couple of days later. Sometimes it would be days, a couple of weeks, then once I got as far as four months and fell hard.

Not too many quit on the first try.

Christina:

Thanks for all the good info.

I know there's going to come a time when she calls me up, ranting and raving saying stuff like "you think you're so perfect because you lost 100 lbs", and a lot of other hateful spoutings, because I know that when a person is deep in an addiction and can't stop (for whatever reason), well they turn on their family and friends.

She has already been ranting at her husband. He rants at her. Amazingly, the only person she seems to have unconditional love for is the 30 year old alcoholic son.

I for one, DO NOT UNDERSTAND how he is not made to be accountable for his behavior. Not only is his drinking the cause of much of the distress, but when he began calling me (after being released from the hospital, and he was detoxed, and clean and sober), he called me up and sold her down the river.

He said "as soon as I move out, my parents are dead to me". I said: "do you hear yourself".? His response was more of the same nonsense and hate filled ragings, telling me "how dare she talk to my girlfriend, I never gave her permission to speak to my girlfriend".

I just stared at the phone because this kind of behavior is so foreign to me, my brain couldn't process this.

The stuff that comes out of his mouth (sober or not sober), is one for the books.

Last night she told me 'we have to get him out of the house but we don't want to evict him, we don't want to hurt his feelings".

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????

I said: "I have to ask you a question (I really wanted to hear the answer because his rantings have blown me away).

I said "I want to know how you got over the fact that he had called me up 5 times, sold you down the river (he was NOT drunk when he did this).

She knew what he had told me (all of it), I was very diplomatic when I told her and I made sure she wanted to hear what he said. Not an easy thing to do to another mother.

So last night I said "Please enlighten me how you can get over the fact of all the stuff he told me, for example, you and your husband will be dead to him once he moves out, and he can't stand you, and you can't talk to his girlfriend".

I said "You really give new meaning to the term unconditional love". How do you do this?"

She said: (and this really confuses me).

She said: 'Well, I don't hold grudges, and he has a really good job, makes lots of money, and we want him to buy a house, so we are bringing a real estate agent over to talk to him".

I said "and what if he doesn't want to listen, or cooperate (like he did when they had the intervention, and he walked out of the house).

She said: "Well, I feel bad for him, and we want to do everything in an easy way to get him out of here, so we can't evict him".

I said: "I give you a lot of credit, most parents would have never put up with 4 hospitalizations, and all the stuff that he put you through (never mind what he said to me over the phone".

I just wanted t understand how this guy is not made to be accountable for ANYTHING he does.

He doesn't give them the time of day. He comes home from work, and goes out all night again.

I know this is his business, but (and this is where i get confused).

Isnt' the purpose of dealing with an alcoholic on the premises, to make him ACCOUNTABLE FOR HIS BEHAVIOR.?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't understand that they don't go to Al-anon meetings, that they said they were going to get him out of the house, but now that he is back to work and goes out all night, all they want to do is bring a real estate agent over and talk to him about buying a house and moving out.

Am I not getting this in my brain?

Aren't people supposed to hit bottom or something and be made accountable??

If this continues, we all know there is going to be another (5th), hospitalization.

I'm not going to be on the other end of the phone going "oh yeah, I know, you poor thing".

4 times is enough in my opinion.

Isn't what they are doing called enabling? Buying him dinner, giving him a roof over his head, etc. etc.

You see, my son is a gambler, and I distanced myself a long time ago. I went to Gam-anon meetings, I followed the program.

My friends have told me "We don't want to be like you, we want our children in our lives". "We don't want to lose them".

Who wants to lose children??? No one wants that.

But if you follow the precepts of the Gam-anon and Al-anon, you learn not to enable.

Right??

Yes they are enabling.

Aren't these the same people who all drink? She drinks to celebrate her four days of sobriety. Her hubby gets so drunk he passes out before he can shut off the car when he gets home from a night of drinking.

What is hard for you to understand is not so much the part about their interaction with their son, that is just a small part in the whole puzzle that is their dysfunctional household.

You have to look at the whole picture. At this point they don't care, they just want him out and are willing to overlook whatever is said or done, pay any amount, to see that they can give him a push. Then she can drink to celebrate that she has her house back. They can both celebrate.

I predict that he will not be out for long. He is ill and abusing his body, he will be back in the hospital, lose the job and house which they are probably putting their name on some papers somewhere for and he will move back in. Sad to say.

As I said before, if I were you I would not even discuss their son and his situation with them. You cannot sway them. All you say is falling on deaf ears. Now if she begins to talk of getting help for herself then by all means be there for her but don't let them suck you into their drama. They often have a tendency to feed on it.

You are such a good friend, I know it is mind boggling and you worry so about them and want them to see through it all what it is that they are doing.

When I was in outpatient rehab there were women in there who had small children, babies that had been taken away from them and they were at rehab because it was part of the requirement to try to get their babies and children back. You would be amazed at how many of them dropped out of rehab to go back out on the street to do drugs and drink instead.

There are thousands of grandparents out there that are raising their grandchildren because the parents are addicts.

Hi.

No these are two separate families. I started a thread "I want to help a friend". That explains the whole story. She's the mom of a 30 year old alcoholic and she drinks BECAUSE HE DRINKS.

Crazy no??

She was sober for 5 days and then she started. She says "I just don't care anymore".

I have no response to that.

But the other family....the one where the guy was dead drunk in front of his house, well, they live around the corner from me., and yes, the whole family does drink (these are the people who lost their son on 9/11).

I guess people will drink for any reason (if they want to drink). They drink to be happy, when they are sad, when it starts to rain, etc.

People just drink.

I don't get it, but then again, alcohol was never my problem. Food was my drug of choice. For most of my life.

Thank the lord, I got a handle on that one.


And yeah, I know MANY GRANDPARENTS who raise their grandkids because the moms and dads, drink and drug.

Very sad indeed!!!

mel