Help Need Help Understanding Patient Rights/Confidentiality
 

Hi

Does my Mother have the right to call and speak to my Doctors? She's not listed as my emergency contact. I don't have my health care proxy signed as of yet.

Is this possible? Is it legal? Is it ethical?

I just got off the phone with one of my closest friends. Soon after I left my mothers to move back home with my husband, she called her and left a voicemail.

Stated that I HAD been wandering during those two weeks and needed assistance getting back home. Claimed that I was hearing evil voices, et al. She'd even claimed that I was borrowing money from friends and stealing things. All kinds of fabrications! She really laid in on thick to my friend.

{Really, last summer I was hearing noises and phrases on the tv--like the queen has heart problems, stood out, and bumps and some clangs--not alot, but that was before realizing I had MS---Last summer I was post-pathum and fatigued, in a flare}

She stated that she had spoken with my neuro and had him concerned as well. She stated that the next visit to my father, they'd had a place all lined up for me.

Is this possible? For her to have spoken with my neuro? Or anyone else in the medical community?

If true, I'm appalled! Actually, I'm appalled to find this all out! My paranoia was feeling like she and her dh were looking to get me committed and take my kids from me. THAT"S the extent of my 'Paranoid Delusions" And guess what? It was really being planned....guess I wasn't paranoid after all!!!

See, my mother is the type of woman, that to the outside world, she's perfect, she's sweet! She's soo nice and helpful! Always being told how they should make her a saint!

I confronted her about this. She denied, told me it was all my father's doing, she was just concerned because I left(to come home to my husband as an adult decision) and she didn't know where I was. She claims I cannot take care of myself. Which couldnt be further from the truth.

I've been such a people-pleaser all my life. Typical perfectionist who has issues with procrastination. Yes, I'm prone to verbally express my anger...I'm sure some of you have read some 'angry' posts over time!

I'm looking forward to dealing with a therapist and get my side of my story recorded and documented!

My neuro can't carry on a conversation with her about me, can he??? There goes my feelings of trust!!!

I'm so hurt....

Holy Cow!! Speaking of "Mother Dearest" !!:eek: :mad:

She can probably talk to your Doc, if he's crazy enough to listen, but he CANNOT divulge any medical info about you to her or anyone without your written permission.

I think I'm glad you're back with DH and I hope he is understanding and in your corner.:hug:

I'm not exactly sure.
She could talk to them???, but they should not be talking to her about your health care.
It should only be a one way discussion.
It's hard to know how much her "input" might have affected drs opinions on your treatment/care..

I guess you will have to bring this up with the Dr, to let him know she is not trustworthy...so he doesn't believe whatever she told him.

Absolutely not. It is against the law for any medical professional to speak to anyone other than the patient about your condition. Even Jim had to sign at the urologist that I could have access to his records/medical information. I would call the office and tell them they broke confidentiality laws and you are not happy. That is outragious! I think it's time to switch neuros at this point if you can and tell mom to never ever call your doctors again without you knowing about it.

kinda long. from the ama

Patient confidentiality
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/4610.html full article.

this is the first paragraph

Physicians have always had a duty to keep their patients' confidences. In essence, the physician's duty to maintain confidentiality means that a physician may not disclose any medical information revealed by a patient or discovered by a physician in connection with the treatment of a patient. In general, AMA's Code of Medical Ethics states that the information disclosed to a physician during the course of the patient-physician relationship is confidential to the utmost degree. As explained by the AMA's Council on Ethical and Judicial Affairs, the purpose of a physician's ethical duty to maintain patient confidentiality is to allow the patient to feel free to make a full and frank disclosure of information to the physician with the knowledge that the physician will protect the confidential nature of the information disclosed. Full disclosure enables the physician to diagnose conditions properly and to treat the patient appropriately. In return for the patient's honesty, the physician generally should not reveal confidential communications or information without the patient's express consent unless required to disclose the information by law. There are exceptions to the rule, such as where a patient threatens bodily harm to himself or herself or to another person.

Being a ex nurse and on both sides I can say with fact that your privacy rights were violated and that Dr needs to be reported to The health Dept board unless you gave him the right to speak to your mom, or she has power of attorney over your health care!! They are not even allowed to leave a message on your voice mail/machine without your written consent! Trust me I know this for a fact unless the rule is different from state to state which I highly doubt! I am so sorry to hear that yet another bad NS is out in the world practicing with this type of behavior!! Stick it to him, get mad, you have more then every right! I think its called Heppa in this state (TN) and I must sign one each time I see anyone in medical field! They are toast if they violate mine!

I see him again at the end of August. I'm going to ask if she did, indeed contact him. I know Mother was calling all kinds of people during that time frame, spewing forth all kinds of information about Me....because she was "So Concerned". :(

When I did see him IN May, I was complaining that I was sick and tired of feeling sick and tired. How my mother used to tell me that AD's were no good, etc. A little information was shared by me to him regarding the situation. He mentioned that sometimes 'Mother Knows Best'. I found it an odd statement? in the least. I asked him if it was him that I should talk with or a therapist? He informed me a therapist.

I have my therapist appointment in a little over a week.

Let's hope in the least it's a one-sided conversation...or maybe even a conversation she never had? I pray the later. But, to me, even with a one sided conversation, I fear it interferes with my treatment and how I'm perceived. Just another 'crazy' MSer, ya know? *sigh*

Thanks for your wonderfully supportive responses! I've realized the worst kind of betrayal in life is that of the mother/daughter bond. It's been like this my whole life. Always talking about me behind my back, then denying it...or treating my reaction to such behavior as blown out of proportion....

You'd be angry too...

Guess that's why I'm itchy to get to alanon?

Thanks Again!

((((((gladys))))))

have you tried the al-anon podcast?

http://al-anonfamilygroups.org/Podcasts/FirstSteps/

Do you mean HIPAA? (The Health Insurance Portability & Accountability Act of 1996)

HIPAA doesn't cover what a dr says to people ( like your mom) , it covers what your insurance company can or anyone in the dr's office who handles billing.

we used to have a clinic associated with the club.

wiki has a good article on HIPAA.

Interesting! I also remember how much praise she started giving my doctor upon hearing of my upcoming appointment with him back in May.

Interesting!

Do doctors eventually see through the hogwash? Or am I forever destined to live under her shadow? And clutches?

I'm checkiing out the Al-Anon Podcast now...my first time!

Thanks!

from my experience, they listen to the patient. your mother would come across as a meddeling person. :stirthepot:

i had a problem a few years ago with a nurse from my dr's office. my dr is also a family friend and member of our club. as his most of his staff.

well, one of his nurses taked to my husband one day at the club. asked him about a problem i had talked about during an exam. :eek:

she got fired.

it's not that my husband didn't know. my dr has very strict confidentialty rules with his staff. plus..sheesh...talk about a man's wifes health issue in a gym full of people. :mad: :o

do you have the link to the al-anon main site? it's very helpful. :hug:

I would agree that a doctor can not reveal anything about a patient, but I'm not sure why he would not be allowed to "listen" to what someone else has to say about his patient. :confused:

My mom was a diagnosed schizophrenic, and her doctor(s) used to hear all the time, from various sources (landlords, neighbors, family, friends, police...) about her antics. That was how he knew whether it was time to commit her or not, usually.

Cherie

the ama does say this cherie

Safeguarding patient confidences also is subject to certain exceptions that are ethically and legally justified because of overriding social considerations. If there is a reasonable probability that a patient will inflict serious bodily harm on another person, for example, the physician should take precautions to protect the intended victim and notify law enforcement authorities.

i don't see anywhere that says they can't listen. i guess that would be up to the dr and what he thinks is ethilcly and morally right himself or what is in his patients best interest.

I disagree, Cherie. A Doc may listen, but may not discuss.....and he/she is a fool to believe and/or utilize anything that is heard from anyone, other than the patient and his/her own expertise therein.

To me, "discuss" implies two-way communication. That would/could not happen . . . I agree.

"Listening" is different though, isn't it?

(Not too often a schizophrenic can be trusted for using good judgment).

Cherie

Yes I have checked out the alanon main website :)

I feel that to be cast a a schizophenic, however, it would take more than just hearing a couple random bumps in the night? Once, years ago, I thought I hear my name called up the stairs....but I really don't 'hear' things.

After suffering through some post-pathum issues last summer...mainly an intense fear for the safety of my children and myself. After what seemed like a hack into my computer and this in-depth article about bpd and this guy looking for his long lost wife--which was no longer there the next day, even after I saved it...well...I legitimately thought we were in danger.

There are some feelings last summer, that kind of resembled shizophrenia, but...it seemed to pass, whatever it was.

I was also going through a deeply spiritual awakening, and I know it was scary for me. I felt physically weak, I thought I was losing my vision, I thought my body was going to collapse before I was ready. And some old scars on my arm kept showing up and disappearing....i thought I was going to die! Plane and Simple.

It was a pretty desperate time. I appreciate her concern and being there with me....however, I never felt that I would harm myself or another. SO off to the doctors I went...and voila...it's MS! I had a hard time explaining why I felt deja-vu. I was reliving/facing the reality of my past! Plain and Simple. Figured this would all come out through therapy.

When I went to the psychologist shortly after my dx in the fall, I was going through some intensly tough marital problems. Of course, his solution was to have me sit in a meditation chair and try relaxation tapes. I stopped going after I felt obligated to drive in the most miserable of snow storms...just to take a cognitive test. This simple computer test...probably better for occupational therapy...*sigh* I was unhappy with the experience.

Of course, then, my mother and dh were set that I no longer needed therapy....my own co-dependency issues at play.

I go to the psyche board from time to time...take the sanity test and all that jazz. A little depressed...after all that an anger are the same!

Well...that's all the rambling I can muster this afternoon....I'm tired....

I'm so sorry Gladys . . . I did not mean to imply I thought you were schizophrenic at all!!

PwSchizophrenia have just as many rights as anyone else though, and I know that anyone with a concern would be permitted to talk TO her doctor(s), when necessary.

It would seem to me then, that a person could talk TO a doctor about any patient (with ANY condition) . . . so long as the doctor didn't divulge anything back.

Cherie

Lady Express....I didn't take your comment in a defensive nor offensive manner....just being realistic with what my mother is accusing me of! Unfortunately :(

I'm trying to sort through all of this before I even begin to start therapy. With my own past issues of depression, I am terrified of AD's. I'm afraid of the side-effects. I want to find answers....but am terrified of being forced meds without talk therapy first and foremost.

Guess I'm trying to heal too much at once ;)

I'm sorry if my message came off defensive in anyway....I try to contain my anger and toss it in a better direction...sometimes it comes through my words.

I'm glad to be surrounded by compassionate souls....

Just wanted to apologize for really getting into what's eating me up. I don't really believe I have such a debilitating mental condition.

I'm learning to stop unloading my personal baggage on my friends. My Post-pathum was a scary time. I'm still searching for answers.

Thanks for the replies on the topic at hand!

Gladys,

You seem like such a sweet, gentle soul, and I hope that the difficulties you faced last year are well in the past.

My mom was a kind and intelligent lady. She had a perfectly normal life, until one day in her late 20's (after her third child, with an alcoholic husband), things started happening that did not make sense in the "real" world. She saw and heard things that weren't there, and she was very afraid of so many things that most people didn't blink an eye at.

We went through years of progressive Schizophrenia with mom, and until the day she died, she insisted there was nothing wrong with her. For the first 20 yrs with the disease, she was more healthy then not . . . but then she would get stressed and have these several-months-long "attacks" of mental illness. If she could have found a medication that worked for her (and that she would TAKE!), she might have had a reasonably normal life . . . but she did not believe the doctors.

What the doctors explained to us (yes, they talked to us all the time about my mom's well-being), was that with schizophrenia, all of a person's sub-conscious thoughts come flooding to the conscious mind. People with this disability have a hard time filtering out what's real, important, and valid.

I know several people with MS who are bi-polar, perhaps because of some damage to their brain from the disease process. I haven't heard of anyone with Schizophrenia and MS, but I guess odds are that some of us would have to have it, just like the general population. I can't imagine a much worse scenerio, to be honest; to end up with MS and Schizophrenia, simply because we get so many weird symptoms and drug side-effects, I don't know how a person would know what is causing what. :(

It sounds like your mom is genuinely concerned about the things she "thinks" she's witnessed. It may very well be that she is just looking for attention, or is imagining things . . . but I think you do need to be prepared to fully analyze her accusations with your therapist.

I guess I am sensitve to this topic as I spent the last 40 yrs with my mom not accepting what everyone else saw so clearly. For some reason, she was able to rationalize everything that happened (all the "craziness"), and there was no convincing her that she DID have this condition. (Being as intelligent as she was made things very hard to argue too!)

Of course, you have some very valid reasons for why you may have experienced some of these strange occurrences over the last year . . . but I hope you keep an open mind about this too. :hug:

Cherie

gladys, yeah what they all said, seriously your rights were violated, unless you are still under age of 18, after 18, unless they are still your legal guardian, they should have no access to any info on your mental or psychical conditions via a doc or medical group , good luck with the next visit:hug:

Lady Express,

I am not afraid of exploring that avenue. I'm the one that Chose to go to Therapy! I'm the one that's had it up to *here* with all the unresolved issues. I'm the one who has been preaching therapy. What I mean about being afraid of an AD....well I also know that there are mood stabilizers, I'm less fearful of, kwim? It's just the AD's.

What happened last summer, with my post-pathum issues and fears happened LAST Summer. I'm ready to talk! I'm ready to get down to the bottom of it all...even hypnotherapy. et al.

Now, what she is 'claiming' to have happened in the two weeks I was in her home...I'm sorry! THOSE things DID NOT happen!! The things she said to my friend...WOW! Did I wander through her home, looking through my bags, looking for the keys to my medicine lock box? YES! Did I have a thousand yard stare after uprooting my kids, and leaving my husband? Yes! Was I angry with my husband? Yes! Did I have a hard time trying to chase my kids around her home, keeping them out of her breakables? Yes! Did I go on-line to my support group? Yes!

Then, she and her dh....started with the weird comments! First, EVERY day, while I was there, my mother wanted to make sure that I downloaded my life insurance policy and change it. Was I skeptical of doing that there? Yes! Was I fearful of her dh putting the 'moves' on me? YES! They suggested I write to my uncle and ask for some financial assistance to move out, I asked how much did they think? My mother's dh, said, Oh about a years worth of rent. I morally struggled with such an idea. But thought, I really need to get me and my kids out on our own...housing has a one-year wait list. I wrote a fluffy message. But I asked. I never checked the replied message, I was too ashamed to have asked that.

One day, I overheard her dh argue with her, because he had had it with us living there. It wasn't supposed to last this long. Then his 'abuse' started. Little verbal attacks. Called my 5yr old a 'jerk.' Said, too bad my 2yr old is schizophrenic. One day, when he decided to 'discipline'my 2 yr old, he kept complaining about how angry my son was! He took him into the next room screaming and hollering, within seconds there was quiet. Apparantly my son 'fell asleep". Yeah, right! I still don't buy that one.

There's more, naturally. After a miserable Mother's Day experience, with snide and nasty comments to me, I had decided that I concurred with my own DH. This man is a nasty influence in our lives. That maybe, my mother wasn't the greatest influence either. I finally 'woke' up to how she drinks. I realized she was always drinking when I was a child. Going out, partying, etc. There was a 'break' in this drinking. After my parents divorced, I was living with my dad. She immediately remarried. When her second husband fell ill, the drinking stopped. It stopped for a good many years, until he succumbed to his illnesses.

The day after Mother's Day. I called my DH. We talked. He had during this split told me that he would quit drinking if I'd just come home. On this day, I cried, I said I'm sorry. You are right about this man. I've left a bad situation for a worse situation! Are you serious about not drinking? Because I can no longer live in a home where there is alcohol. I had already quit myself by this point. I quickly packed my bags, got our stuff together, called a cab and me and the boys went home! One of my friends helped me go back to get the rest of what was there.

What followed, was he**!!! My Mother lost it on me! She raged, she carried on! She called everyone she could think of! My poor self, my poor husband. He was in disbelief about the things she said! With a mother like mine, who needs enemies!

One of things I wanted to get taken care of in therapy...a source to last summer. I'm the one who wants to find out if it's an isolated incidence, or if it's the beginning of something horrific! Either way, I'm the one who wants to go to therapy!!! This is MY choice! And I'm appalled that SHE'D CALL my DOCTORS before I even get there! I've been waiting months for this appointment!!! Months!!! It's finally almost here!!!

Her plans of having a hospital all lined up for me...well....I'm skeptical of her and her dh's motives!

Let the therapy show and prove, that I've been living with a passive-aggressive control freaking maternal presence in my life! Let the therapy show why I've struggled so hard to become an adult!

I'm not against meds....I'm just against not being tested first! I'm against walking in there the first day and being sent home with something that MIGHT not agree with my system! If that makes sense?

ARe you sure we are not related? your mother sounds an awful lot like my mother! There is a reason I live so far away from them.

Ok, as a nurse, let me tell you. When a patients mommy, sister, husband, or neighbor would call to "report" a patient, whether it was for being abusive of their meds, or selling their meds, or hearing voices, or acting strangely, or murdering chickens in the yard, WE DO LISTEN to what that caller has to say, BUT we CANNOT/WILL NOT divulge any information back to the caller. its a ONE way conversation, and we say things like "thank you for telling us this, and wow, that is interesting, and how scary for you." BUT we also reccognize that MOST callers have a personal interest in the call. Whether that is anger and the "i will teach her a lesson" kind of call, or the "I am really scared for her" kind of call. We base OUR care, concern, and treatment of our patients on the PATIENTS demeanor, NOT the caller.

If you appear to be the kind of person that would sell your rx, and we are getting phone calls from sources saying you are, we would pull a urine to see if you are taking your meds. If we get phone calls that you are selling your rx and you dont strike us as that kind of person, we discount the caller and move on.

IF your MD believes that the caller has merit that you are hearing voices, acting inappropriately or of danger to yourself and others, he will ask you some simple simple questions the next time you go in. he will see by the way YOU answer those questions that you are not in trouble.

Please know that as a healthcare provider we see the whole gamut of family members butting in. From those who think we are trying to kill their child, to those that think we are quacks and need to dismiss their child. please please please know that the DOCTOR PATIENT RELATIONSHIP IS JUST THAT. Between the DOCTOR AND THE PATIENT. If you are worried about your mothers involvement or interfernce please bring it up next visit and explain that you are being told that mom is on a rant, and want to apologize for her behavior. That she is expressing some anger because you have chosen to move on with your life, and she is grasping at many straws to pull you back. Thank him for entertaining her, an hearing her out, but assure him that you are in NO way in trouble, and while its hard to deal with a mom you are doing your best.

Hang in there! I got one just like her in my corner. :hug:

Well, HIPPA says NO!! They can't even send your medical records to another doctor without your consent. I had to deal with HIPPA a lot...we couldn't even put in a file that a child's mother was HIV because of HIPPA.

Those laws are really very strict, I think I would call the Neuro and ask exactly what the conversation was about.

sorry you are having to go through this...hope things really do get better for you


Here's a hug just for you!!:hug:

I think before "convicting" her Doctor we need to remember that her mother could be lying about any conversation that might or might not have happened. Like others have said her Doc can listen but can not share any information.

GladysD, I am very concerned about you. Your posts sound like the things that happened last May are still haunting you. It must feel horrible to still have such pain and distrust. I do hope you find a doctor that you can trust and will consider taking whatever medications they might suggest. If you can start to feel better it would be wonderful for your children also. Wishing you the best.

Thanks Jules!

I agree, we shouldn't condemn the dr just yet! She may or may not have spoken with him.

May 2008, is when things went down between my mother and myself. It was just yesterday, july 26 that I spoke with my friend. It was just yesterday that I found out what my mother had planned for me! It was just yesterday that I realized why it was that I was feeling as if my children's jeopardy was at risk!

My post-pathum issues occured last summer, end of July/early August. At that point I went to my primary doctor. At that point, I was referred to a neurologist for evaluation and testing---to rule out something organically wrong with me, psycho-motor seizures(complex partial-seizures) or brain lesions was the prognosis. I was instructed that if that wasn't discovered, I'd have to contact a therapist.

Guess what they found? I HAVE MS. July 2007 was the 6-month marker that I've heard most women complain about flare-ups---fatigue, problems with vision, et al...the usual heat related issues.

Went to a psychologist following my dx. Came back mild anxiety. I stopped going when I realized all he was going to do for me was drive up there weekly for relaxation sessions.

During the winter, I started pursuing the avenue of leaving my dh. I'd had enough of the abuse that resulted from his alcohol issues. Last summer, he was calling me 20-40 times a day to check up on me, etc. Jealous rages, the whole nine yards. Come the end of April of this year I left him.

Two weeks at my mother's was enough for me. I came back home. This is when she called and left that voicemail with my friend. In it were instructions NOT to tell me about this ever! My friend hadn't heard from me. Assumed that this happened to me. She'd been waiting to hear from me.

I called her yesterday. She said, did you know they were planning to put you in a hospital? Then it all came out....it all came together in my mind.

1)In middle of May 2008, I went to my neuro. Asked him if there was anyone he recommended for me to see.

2)I called to set up an appointment, and was told to call back at the beginning of June.

3) End of May, I went to a psychologist for the SSA...

4) End of May tried to set up appointment with therapist, finally obtained one for August.

Yes, I'm going to follow through on the therapy and take whatever meds I need.

My father informed me that my mother can not let go of what I went through last summer. To me, it's suspicious what she may have had in mind for me when I was living with her. It's all suspect now! The issues I am carrying forward are Mommy Issues! Yes, I have Mother issues! I want to heal from my dysfunctional past and move on with my life!

I devore self-help reads like they are going out of style! My wellness is my #1 top priority!

Sorry for any confusion due to the long and lengthy and touchy posts....

I am sorry, I did misspell HIPPA, and it went into effect after I stopped nursing, but I do know that everywhere I worked as a nurse (everywhere since I was a agency nurse) it was pounded into me that to reveal a patients confidence was the worst thing I could do and that I could be sued for it and fired!! Like I said, maybe that was just here in Tn, but I assumed it was statewide?? I have also been told by the Dr's office that the HIPPA form I signed each and every time I saw Dr was all about whether or not they could share my info with Anyone,(including voicemail) not just the insurance company, so beats me??
I personally think it is way out of line if it happened and if any Dr of mine violates my privacy without my consent there will be major trouble for him unless someone lies and says I am crazy, and a threat to myself or others, but they had better have proof of this:) I hope you find the Dr did not do that since it is so wrong in every way!! I trust them with my thoughts and feelings and would feel more then betrayed if they spoke to even my Dh behind my back without my consent! Good luck with all of this!

Dejibo! Who knows?! Are you my long lost sister ??? ;)

I have to say, this explanation of how it works, puts my mind at ease! If she did contact them...then, this is acceptable to me for answers etc! :)

I feel better reading you post and everyone elses!

I see my neuro at the end of August and will ask if she did, indeed call. Then I will apologize for such an intrusion into the patient/doctor confidence. Trust is a two way street. I don't want my doctors not trusting me, as much as I don't want to not trust them :) And if I don't acknowledge this, then how can there be trust towards me? I'm trying to keep myself as well as I can, and for this occurance to be in the back of his mind? Well...I think doesn't fare well for me.

I'm going to get to the bottom of my summer with the therapist...at least it will be in my records. And then focus on living life and moving on !

Thanks so much!!! :hug:

hey, my mom called my MD to tell him that I was NOT taking enough pain pills. that I frequently ignored my pain, or found myself in bed because I couldnt finish my day from the pain. She wanted to register her complaint and ask that I be allowed MORE pills! :eek:

After seeing the MD the next time, he assured me that while my mom was NOT given ANY information about me, they did listen to what she had to say, because it sounded so serious, and he wanted to talk to me a min about it.

I explained that I have BUCKETS of pills at the house. i CHOOSE to NOT take them. I am retired! If I want to go lay down, I CAN! I dont need permisson. That if I want a pill, I have many to chose from. I got the standard lecture that if I wanted to be re evaluated for better pain control, to please let him know! they are happy to give me just about anything I want since I do not display drug seeking or abusive behaviors.

upon returing home and calling my mom I found out that she wanted me to MAIL her some of MY pills so my sister could have them!!!! :eek: my sister is a bad drug addict and will rob you blind. if she thinks you have pills on you, take your pocket book to the toilet with you! When I go visit my mom I lock my bag in my car. My mother went on to tell me that my sister is in alot of pain, and her MD isnt listening to her the way mine listens to me! I should have more compassion for her and send her some of what I am not using!

I have morphine if I want it. I can have vicoden, dilauded, and whatever. I DONT use it! well, I do but not like that. So, I swear, we must be related! I am not being forgiven because my sister is in pain and I am ignoring her needs! I have offered to speak to her MD office to see if I can be helpful, but REFUSE to send a tylenol through the mail for her. My sister doctor hops, and has 6 or 7 at a time givng her Rxs. scary stuff! yet I am the one in trouble??!