Tragic!
 

:(Suicide hot line got calls from 22,000 veterans
By KATHARINE EUPHRAT, Associated Press Writer Mon Jul 28, 6:21 AM ET


WASHINGTON - More than 22,000 veterans have sought help from a special suicide hot line in its first year, and 1,221 suicides have been averted, the government says.
http://us.bc.yahoo.com/b?P=5.BEIkWTc...295913%2fV%3d1

According to a recent RAND Corp. study, roughly one in five soldiers returning from Iraq and Afghanistan displays symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder, putting them at a higher risk for suicide. Researchers at Portland State University found that male veterans are twice as likely to commit suicide than men who are not veterans.
This month, a former Army medic, Joseph Dwyer, who was shown in a Military Times photograph running through a battle zone carrying an Iraqi boy, died of an accidental overdose after struggling with post-traumatic stress disorder for almost five years.
Janet Kemp, national suicide prevention coordinator for the Veterans Affairs Department, said the hot line is in place to help prevent deaths such as Dwyer's. "We just want them to know there's other options and people do care about them, and we can help them make a difference in their lives," she said in an interview.

The VA teamed up with the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration to launch the hot line last July after years of criticism that the VA wasn't doing enough to help wounded soldiers returning from Iraq and Afghanistan. In April, two veterans groups sued the VA, citing long delays for processing applications and other problems in treatment for veterans at risk for suicide. The department has spent $2.9 million on the hot line thus far.
The hot line receives up to 250 calls per day — double the average number calling when it began. Kemp said callers are divided evenly between veterans from the Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam wars. Richard McKeon, public health adviser for SAMHSA, said 10 to 20 of the 1,575 calls received each week have to be rerouted to high-volume backup call centers throughout the country.
The VA estimates that every year 6,500 veterans take their own lives. The mental health director for the VA, Ira Katz, said in an e-mail last December that of the 18 veterans who commit suicide each day, four to five of them are under VA care, and 12,000 veterans under VA care are attempting suicide each year.
This month, the hot line began an advertising campaign in Washington area subway stations and buses featuring the slogan, "It takes the courage and strength of a warrior to ask for help."

The veterans hot line, which is linked to the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline, received 55,000 callers in its first year, including both veterans and people who are concerned about them, according to figures being released Monday. One-third of the 40 specially trained counselors are veterans themselves.
"We try to get them (callers) to talk about their situation and what they remember and see if they can identify exactly what their issues are. I think there's a comfort in knowing that they can get some help from people who do understand what combat stress is like," Kemp said.

From the call center, counselors instantly can check a veteran's medical records and then connect the caller to local VA suicide prevention coordinators for follow-up, monitoring and care at local VA medical centers. Kemp said that since the hot line started, 106 veterans have been steered to free medical care from the VA.
Kemp said the hot line was put in place specifically for those veterans who don't get enough help until it's too late. "They have indicated to us that they are in extreme danger, either they have guns in their hand or they're standing on a bridge, or they've already swallowed pills," she said. Kemp said 1,221 veterans who were in such situations were rescued during the hot line's first year.

The VA is preparing for the eventual return of a large number of troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. This could put added stress on the mental health screening program for returning veterans, which could lead to a rise in undiagnosed mental health issues. The VA recently got enough money to double its suicide prevention staff and is planning to hire 212 more people soon.
The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is available 24 hours a day by calling 800-273-TALK (8255); veterans should press "1" after being connected.
__

It's heart-breaking, Alffe. :(

From what I have experienced so far, it's because these men/women were either forced or deceived into military service. For my Vietnam vet friend, he was drafted right out of high school. He lives day after day with the memory of holding a very close friend - well, half of him, anyway - as he lay dying. He has to sleep every night with the nameless faces of people he had to kill. During his most formative years as an adult, the only lesson he learned was "search and destroy." :(

For my son, he became frustrated because he didn't have the money to go to college and couldn't find a job. He desperately wanted to get on with his life because he wants the resources necessary to be able to care for me and my husband as we cared for my parents in their time of need. He wants to have a wife and family of his own, but he knows he'll need to be able to provide for them first. He knows how upset I'd be to have hungry or neglected grandbabies. :eek:

My son has been deceived many times so far. Right now, he's holding on to the promises they have given him for when he gets out. If they do him wrong, I can't really be responsible for his behavior - especially after the training he's been through. I'll be just as angry. :mad:

For many others, they were fooled into thinking they would be protecting the people of this country - as if we'd lose our "freedom" if we lost the war in Vietnam. We lost the war - what "freedom" did we lose? I absolutely cringed when we justified the war in Iraq as we tried to justify the war in Vietnam. :eek:

What makes this worse for me is my Vietnam friend is having more PTSD episodes because of this war and because of my son serving overseas. He's been my son's buddy ever since my son was an infant. He used to tell my son he served in Vietnam so that my son wouldn't have to go to war. Now he can only hope my son stays alive and won't follow the same path my friend was forced to walk when he returns home. :(

I'm thankful the professionals are recognizing this trend and my hat goes off to those who are in a position to help our suicidal vets. I'm worried that the treatment isn't enough though. As much as they care, they will never be able to wipe away those painful memories or give them back their limbs. IMO, the best medicine is prevention. I hope and pray our soldiers come home soon. I hope and pray no more soldiers will be sent to war unnecessarily. :(

I think we had less of a problem with our WWII vets because it was a necessary war for a more noble cause. The people of this country suffered right along with the soldiers. Heck, women even gave up their stockings for the cause. What have WE sacrificed on a daily basis for our Vietnam and Iraq war veterans? Nothing. :rolleyes:

My newlywed daughter sacrificed her Nat'l Guard DH for more than a year while he proudly served in Iraq. They even had to move up the wedding date a few months.

One of his jobs was to spot IEDs as they were being placed along the roadside. He purchased $800 binoculars before being sent over there, and they may just have saved his life. Thankfully he was not injured and returned home safely, although DD does say he is somewhat changed.

Twinkletoes

I'm glad he made it home safely, and I pray there will be no lasting harmful effects for your family. As much as I criticize this war, I will NEVER criticize our soldiers. I'm proud of your son for following orders, completing his mission, and having the courage to do whatever his country asked of him. :hug:

I wasn't referring to the veterans or their families when I referred to sacrificing nothing. I was referring to those who have the option to turn their backs on this war - no friends or family directly involved. I always thought "we" meant ALL of us in this country, and they keep saying "we" are at war. IMO, waving a flag or placing a bumper sticker on your car isn't much of a sacrifice in order to maintain the survival of this country OR it's people. :rolleyes:

We have a friend (he is in his sixties!) and is being sent on special duty to Afganhistan. War should be against the law...I'm not kidding about that. His wife is on the floor over this as he was extended yet again after being in Iraq.

How could anyone ever get over having to kill someone before they kill you. How could you ever sleep through the night?

Sixties? SIXTIES???? :eek: Isn't that supposed to be the time of your life when it's okay to be lazy and have someone fetch your slippers for you - preferrably little snot-nosed grandbabies? :p Hasn't a man of that age seen enough "adventure" in his lifetime? At the very least, a soldier who has already served should be allowed to live out his golden years doing what HE wants to do - with his family by his side. :(

I'm afraid that's what you get when you excell at special services...I wonder if he's sorry for his "interesting" career choice. :(

My son came home from Iraq 2 years ago (he joined marines because he wanted to be just like his messed up alcoholic Daddy that won't even speak of his time in Vietnam and I was so happy when my son was given a general discharge because he took his laptop with him, another kid was messing with it and one of them downloaded a child porn page) (not my son, he is very much about honor and protecting kids) but I think it was from downloading songs from limewire, people attach nasty files (I have found some awful stuff on my laptop and I am only user so I quit using it) but they are both so messed up with PTSD that I don't know if they will ever get over it! My dh for the first time in over 40 years is getting help for it through the VA and I can already see a change in him and I want so bad for my son to get the same help as I know they both saw and did things they can't hardly live with and I feel so angry with the Gov for luring them there! Dh begged our son not to join, but it did no good, then they kick him to the curb for something he did not do.....I think it is so they can take his benefits from him, but his discharge will become honorable after a year and his laptop was returned to him....I just think they are evil! Just a angry wife and mothers opinion. I worry all the time that suicide will one day get one or both of them:(

(((Junie)))

A young man my son served with on the base had a slight weight problem and kept getting orders to participate in a physical exercise program. An officer didn't like the kid, so he "sentenced" him to go through the program yet again. The kid missed one of the classes, and he was promptly booted out of the Navy. After nearly three years in the military, the kid lost all his benefits - simply because his officer didn't like his pot belly. :eek:

I'm hoping we're beginning to see a climate change in our military. It helps to have medical professionals speaking up in defense of treating the "hidden wounds" of our war-torn soldiers. Back in your husband's day, he would have been accused of being a "wimp" for complaining about what he had to endure. Since when do men have to act like ROBOTS (uncaring machines) in order to be MEN? :mad: Geesh!

I'll keep your family in my prayers. :hug:

Kathy (and anyone else this applies to ;))

You think that this young man who was overweight was booted just because his commanding officer didn't like him? Think again.

The military has strict weight guidelines that must be adhered to for physical fitness. If this young petty officer didn't make the weight guidelines during PT and was given chances, he was booted for not meeting the goals set forth by the military, not by this one officer.

You can look up the guidelines under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) and find out just exactly what these guidelines are. He knew when he signed on the dotted line what his options were.

My husband spent 20 years as an officer in the US Navy and one of his jobs was making sure all of the men and women working for him met the goals set forth by the military. He had to meet them as well. It's not arbitrary nor do they pick and choose who can and cannot adhere to these guidelines. Although there are medical exceptions under certain conditions.

As for losing all the benefits after 3 years, that was his choice. He chose to not meet the goals. It would be no different if he were in a non-military job and didn't meet the expectations of his manager. He would be fired and lose any pension or benefit package he had paid into. The only difference here is that the taxpayers are saving money because this young man cannot adhere to rules and regulations and is not fit for military life. It's good that he found out early that the strict lifestyle that he thought he could handle was not for him before he got too far into it.

Not everyone is cut out for military life. It's a tough life. No one ever said it was easy. It's not easy for the active duty member and it's not easy for the family. It's not supposed to be. It's rigid, disciplined and austere. That's what makes a good soldier good. It has nothing to do with war and everything to do with making quick smart decisions when they need to be made.

I am sorry you feel the way you do, those of you who don't like the military lifestyle. It's just the way it is. You have to go into it with your eyes wide open. Recruiters do the best they can with what they have. It's an all volunteer military. It has been since the draft ended back in the early 70s.

I rather enjoyed being a military spouse. It was an adventure and we met some very nice people, lived in some interesting places. It was not always a bed of roses, I will admit. There were times I never knew where my husband was, what he was doing or if and when he was coming home. Communication was non-existent (and I mean non-existent) for months, unlike today where you have email and cell phones etc. I sometimes found out where he was by watching CNN and sometimes they didn't even get it right. The military family today has it a whole lot better than we did 15 years ago but it still isn't cushy by any means.

I will step down off my soap box now, but I get tired of the complaining by those who have not been there, walked in the same shoes that we have walked in, and never will. It gets old. Be grateful for the freedom you have and thank those who have served and gave up their lives, their pensions, their families, so you can have what you have today. Thank a veteran...thank the military.

Volunteer at a VA hospital, an Elks Rehab Center, or for a VA Rehab center if you have time or are able. Otherwise, you have no room to complain.

Thank you to those who volunteer and serve today. It's not an easy job or lifestyle.

Cheryl

I completely understand that physical fitness is a must. It wasn't a problem for my son because he's always been into physical fitness. However, he told me this kid didn't fall into the category because he WAS physically fit - just not according to that particular officer's liking. He didn't have a hard body like the weight-lifters did. My son said the kid tried very hard to stick to his diet and maintain his physical appearance, but his officer kept ridiculing him. Over time the kid finally gave up trying to exercise it off.

I don't have a weight problem, but I know PLENTY of people who do. It's not always a matter of discipline in losing weight - especially when people continue to insult your appearance. Like it or not, there are emotional issues as well when it comes to weight loss. It is extremely hard to lose weight and keep it off. Maybe the recruiters should have warned the kid ahead of time he needed to maintain the look of a bodybuilder in order to remain in the military and receive his benefits. :rolleyes:

Then again, if physical fitness is such a must, why is the mass consumption of alcohol and cigarettes encouraged on the base? :confused:

I would volunteer if I could, but I'm permanently and terminally disabled and homebound - not to mention glued to my telephone until my son comes back from deployment overseas. When my son was born, my intention for him was to LIVE and succeed at life - not to kill or be killed. :o I'm sorry you feel the way you do, but I think I have a right to complain. :(

Cheryl, I'm not only grateful to those who are willing to enlist in the armed forces, I'm astonished that anyone does in this day and age.

Do you have any feelings about returning to the draft? :hug:

And kathy of course you have a right to your feelings...you have a son at stake. :hug:

Kathy

There is a chain of command that is time honored. I assure you there is more to the story than you or I are aware of. If he was within the weight guidelines then he was not discharged because he was not a "body builder" or "six-pack abs" guy. I am sure that if you were to look around the military these days, you will find that not to be the case.

Kathy, mass consumption of alcohol is not encouraged on military bases. In fact, it is discouraged to the point of closing down clubs. Where on earth did you get that idea? You get a DUI on or off base and it is cause for court martial. I don't know what world you live in but it certainly isn't the military world we live in or are exposed to. I can give you statistics on that issue....

This is not about whether or not you or I can or cannot lose weight, but you are most certainly entitled to your opinion. As am I. I just happen to have a very vocal one about the military having been around the military most of my life, married to a Navy pilot for 33 years, and worked for the Navy for 10 years. Many of my friends these days are National Guard who have been activated.

My opinion about the draft? We are not in need of "draftees" as we are not in a war situation as we were in WWII or even in the beginning of Vietnam, so no bringing back the draft is not a good idea. At present we have enough volunteers to handle the current staffing, at least that is what my sources tell me. They are turning away qualified applicants. I know of several college grads who have tried to get into the military and have been turned away. I also know of many high school grads, 4.0 students who have applied to the military academies that have been turned down. The applicants are there, there are just too many of them for the current staffing requirements. Or so I am told by very qualified people.

(((((Alffee)))) thanks so much for bringing to our attention how affected, mentally, so many men and women are because of war. As a Canadian, even I am "astonished" that so many young men and women are turning to the military because they are lured by the hope of a better career/life than what they've been able to find so far. Sadly, they are trapped when they realize they made the wrong choice. Until you are really in that position of pulling the trigger, I don't think you can ever be prepared for the reality of killing another human.

It is appalling to me to think people are shamed for making the wrong choice.

Av8rgrl, I think the point was lost - its not the fact that this young man didn't keep up his physical prowness - its the fact that his mental prowness was beaten to a point that he couldn't keep up the physical.

We're a sensitive bunch here - we have lived and are living nightmares because of mental illness.

My heart aches for all who suffer because of war.

That's us....a bunch crazies! :D

Oh great, now you've done it. Moi is going to read this and twirl around in his new Tutu for us. :D

I didn't lose the point at all Addy. I have been there, am there. Like I said, there is more to the story than anyone here knows. I do appreciate your input. :hug:

My intention was not to be insensitive. Quite the opposite. I am very sensitive to the situation. Having first hand experience, in my opinion, would give me a bit more insight into the situation and make me a bit more compassionate than someone without the same experience. I've learned that when one has a similar experience as someone else, they tend to be a tad more sympathetic to the cause and more sensitive to those around them who are going through the same ordeal. If this is not your take on my response, then I have failed to make my point, at least in your eyes. For that, I can only apologize and strive to make my point clearer in the future.

I am only one person who supports the military and those who serve with all my heart.

I try to be one more person who supports the military and those who serve with all my heart.
I have two nephews who are currently serving.

IF, I wear my tutu and my four four, would you ALL know that I care about you ALL? :)

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/blogs/s.../tutudiver.jpg

http://pro.corbis.com/images/CBR0031...1215A333A60%7D


I love you all....

And we all love you but that doesn't change the staggering number of veterans calling the suicide hotlines. :(

Moi, you look very handsome in that blue tutu - the tights are a nice touch. :cool:

I'm confused when people say they support the troops. I get the impression they don't care about the individual soldiers, unless there's a parade or event scheduled with camera crews handy for a photo op and "feel-good" war story for us all.

I think what they mean is they support war and the survival of the equipment necessary for war. They are more concerned with buying more equipment to wage war than caring for the personal needs of the men and women who have served. The lives and welfare of solders mean nothing to them. The welfare and nourishment of the organization is more important than our wounded warriors and their families.

If this is the case, it should start with the recruiters. They should stop with the used car salesman tactics and false claims in recruiting soldiers. They should be up front and honest with their soldiers.

I found out last night before my son went out on deployment he had to sign a bunch of papers they said was routine procedure. My son found one paper that said his deployment was extended a couple of months - but that was NOT what he originally agreed. The officer was getting angry with my son because my son took his time reading through the rest of the material. The officer was anxious to leave for dinner, so he started ridiculing my son in an attempt for him to hurry up and sign. BUT, low and behold, my son found one paper that said he would extend his deployment over there for ONE YEAR.

When he pointed it out to the officer, the officer said "Hmmm, I didn't know that was in there." My son didn't sign the paper.

Okay, yeah, we should warn everyone to read the fine print. However, do they realize many of the young men and women who join the military are NOT bookworms and lawyers?

The last time I was waiting in the airport, two young men walked past in uniform and everyone stood up and clapped. The men looked suprised, one of them blushed but they both waved and grinned. It brought tears to more then a few of us.

I think they were being applauded for their bravery.

And by the way, did I mispell prowness? :o spelling police?~!! I can't find it in the dictionary? Where for art thou?

(((Av8grl))) - I apologize for my words which caused you to think I missed your point. And visa versa. Darn internet anyway, eh... we put tone of voice and body language into the interp - and sometimes we slip up.

:grouphug:

Addy :hug:

prow·ess [ prów əss ]


noun

Definition:

1. superior skill: exceptional ability or skill


2. valor in combat: extraordinary valor and ability in combat


[13th century. < Old French proesce "bravery" < prou "brave," variant of prud (see proud)]




Encarta® World English Dictionary [North American Edition] © & (P)2007 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Developed for Microsoft by Bloomsbury Publishing Plc.

3) A female Prow :p

((Kathy)) We have tons of Support The Troops signs around my town. I think it's just the opposite. People get tired of hearing that they don't support the military. I think they do, they just don't support the 'war'.

http://www.gratitudecampaign.org/fullmovie.php

i agree doddy.

a small town pretty close to me had a surprise parade as a send off to local troops yesterday. the whole town got involved. overnight they decorated the town with ribbons. even the spouses didn't know this was going to happen. they had it all ready by 7am.

there is also so many groups that send packages every month. one group made up school backpacks for the soldiers kids. they are being sent all over the usa.

3) A female Prow :p ROFL!! :D
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/im...ser_online.gif

Doody

Yeah, I guess that's all people can do. Still, it's only supporting the cause - not the individuals or families. IMO, supporting the cause is supporting the war. This is why it confuses me when people say they "support the troops" - is it the people or the cause? :confused:

For example....

IF my son comes home with explosive anger issues, can I count on these same people to support my son - or will they try to have him thrown in jail? IF my son accidentally caused a tragedy due to his anger issues, it would make me the mother of a criminal. Can I count on these same people to support me in my time of need - will they try to help me help my son?

Can I count on the military to support me and my son IF he becomes a criminal due to anger issues/trauma they instilled into him - or will they throw him in jail and take away my honor?

I highly suspect the answer to these questions is a resounding "No support for you!!" At the very least, I can only count on the support of my closest friends and family.

So yeah, the phrase still confuses me. :confused:

We begged our son to tell us what we could send him to make it a little easier for him. The ONLY thing he wanted was for his girlfriend to have a camera like his. She REALLY wants one like his, so he is sending us the money to buy it for her. It made me SO proud - the only thing he wanted for himself was for his girlfriend to be happy. Aw. Better yet, he refused to let us pay for the camera. :hug:

After my husband got off the phone, he said to me "Seriously, mom, how are you and dad - and how are you doing financially?" I told him not to worry - we're not eating cat food for dinner. :p He told me if he's not back by the time we get to that point, we should start with dog food - more nutrition. :p

Kathy kathy kathy...you're getting ahead of yourself again. Home with anger issues and causing accidents....becoming a criminal??? :p

*whisper....don't try Alpo

:hug:

Thanks - I wouldn't think of it, Alpo...I mean Alffe. :D

I'd probably start with those old Milk Bone dog biscuits. When we were kids, my friends and I were sitting out in the back yard and dared each other to eat one. We were all brats, so we all took the dare and bit into the biscuit - then said "hmmm, not bad." :p Never developed a taste for them though. :D

Supporting the troops is not supporting the war. I have supported my husband and the squadron and individual military members for many many years. So please Kathy, do not put words in anyone's mouth. It is not the same thing. There are many of us who support the military in times of need. I have done lots of volunteer work as I have already told you. I have for years even with the disability I have.

It's tragic that so many of our service members need to seek out these services. I know that it is difficult for a proud service member to admit that they have a problem and seek out professional assistance. The first step to healing is to admit that you have problem. Working with veterans can be a very rewarding effort. I know that the time I have spent doing volunteer work has been some of my best volunteer time.

Let me go a little off topic here just a bit so I can make a point about what they don't always tell you. My husband left on a "6-month cruise." That's what the squadron was told when the ship pulled out of port. 11 months later they returned home, yes, 11 months, not 6. It's all part of what he did and what was expected of the lifestyle he chose.

Kathy, you are missing the point of what the military is about. It's a lifestyle, not a job. It's 24/7, 365 days a year. It's not a 9-5 job that you go to each day. Being negative will only cause you stress.

He was in the Navy at the Commander-in-Chief's discretion, period, end of story. When he decided he wanted to retire from the Navy, he had to ask permission. It could have been granted and it could have been denied. Sometimes retirement requests are denied and sometimes they are granted. It all depends upon the needs of the military at the time the request is reviewed.

Be proud that your son wants to serve his country and hold your head high. I certainly would, and do.

Cheryl are you still manning the garden store? :hug: Left you a couple of questions that I really need help with. :o

Hugs for the room.:grouphug:

Thanks Cheryl. :hug:

I'm just fretting and need to vent my worries while I sit here by the window waiting for my son to come home. I've been blindsided too many times in life, and I hate it when I'm not prepared for the blow. I've also seen too many promises broken, so I need a lot of reassurance it will never happen. That's impossible though - can't predict the future. :rolleyes:

It would be different if this had been my son's career choice, or if he had been compelled to join in the fighting to support the war. He's never had any desire to join the military. He was just desperate to go to college and find a job in the music business. We were desperate for him to start doing something with his life because my illness is getting worse. :o

The recruiter told him if he signed up for two years, he'd qualify for college benefits toward his degree and start taking classes right away. It's been four and they didn't tell him he could only take classes pertaining to the Navy that would not transfer over to his college of choice. They also told him he would only be serving in the South Pacific - like my father. They told him it would be a good way for him to honor his grandfather. We liked that idea. :)

There are times when I get so sick I don't think I'll make it out alive. Obviously I always do, but there is no guarantee that it will always be that way. It would destroy my son if I died before he came home. :(

Again, just venting my anger over the situation and really wish they would have been up front with us from the start. :o

(Alffe pounds her head against the wall and says "NOW she's died and gone to heaven!") :p

LOL (((((KathyM)))) Have I ever told you I wuv u? :heartthrob:

I am so thankful that you (we!!!)have this forum of support!

I JUST KNOW your son will be home a lot sooner than you think! :hug:

:sing: Addy

I DO agree with that statement, Alpho! :)

I was reading this and was just going to stay away from it but then someone requested a tutu...LOL

you know, I always try to see things from both sides. I don't always succeed, but I really try.

I am not being pusillanimous about the subject...it is just that I know it's a touchy one and I am not sure what
I can say, really...I am just not that smart. :)

I grew up in a town, considered deep south with a military(Air force) base there and the whole town kinda thrives around the base folks. Every few years, somebody would talk about shutting it down and then the whole town would get all worked up and then rumors would fly and then, everything would be back to normal again.

Surrounding this base are farms: turkey farms, chicken farms, hog farms, cotton farms, corn farms.
And pickles...

lots and lots of pickles...their pickles are so famous you might have had it on your dinner table...

I did some cotton picking, I did some turkey spreading, and I did some pickling and have gotten myself into more than a few pickles...

I worked with farm girls, farm boys. Some of them content and willing to stick around while others dreamt of getting away.

military guys are a hot commodity there and they know it. They are men in uniform and the girls eat it up.

(now, I am just generalizing cause not ALL of them are like that!)

it is hard for a small town farm boy to compete with the cool, hot military dudes. So, a lot of them DO want to join the military.

I am not saying that they join to get the babes. I am just saying, it is an attractive option to some of them.

But they have choices. They can do other things, stay on the farm or study harder, or go somewhere...it's all about choices, well at least, to me. It is.

I know when we are at the very end of the ropes, we can barely see choices because we feel like that we don't have any. But really. There really is always a choice.

Suicide, for example. Is a choice. When one is at the end of the rope and the only choice is suicide and life. Well, there it is. TWO choices....

when I was younger, I had thought about joining the military, part of it was cause I thought, hey, the girls!!

Part of it was cause I thought, hey, I'd get to see the world, part of it was cause, I was lost...

of course, the military didn't take me cause of my disorder. And I was devastated...

I came from another country. I came here growing up being teased and feeling left out. If I can admit this without anyone hating me

I have to say that I grew up with a big part of my life hating this place because I felt left out. I wanted to go home where
I felt I belong!

I was a man without a country for awhile...I went everywhere in search of myself. I traveled to Europe and I've traveled around the country...

still lost...

but after all that traveling and meeting various folks...I grew up...and I learned that I LOVE this country...

I just didn't know how to love it cause I was knee deep in hatred for such a long time, and it was buried beneath the self-hatred...

I was blind sided...

and what helped even more, was meeting you guys (on the forums and the chatrooms) even before meeting any of you in person.
It enriched my life, it opened my myopic views, it made me appreciate the fine folks that make up this country, that I now proudly call home...

when 9-11 happened, I wished so much that I can put on a uniform and go bomb the enemy or give them an enema.

Whenever I read someone was killed over there, I felt like I wanted to do something...even though I can't stand the sight of a gun and I'd shake and tremor whenever I'd hold one...

it was just something inside that I identified with...that I LOVE this country...and I wanted to do something for it.

with that said, it doesn't mean that I agree with everything the way it is being run. There are a lot of structural problems.

When I first move to my current town, I met a guy on the base and we became fishing buddies. He showed me his house on the base, It was horrendous. I asked him how can the gov't treat our best this way. He didn't know what to say.

Some of you have been to that island to our weeding and you have seen the beautiful parts of it. But I've seen the otherside of it as well.

But there are different people living there. Some will say that they love it, some will say that they can't stand it. Some will say that they join cause they have no other choice, some will say that they join so they can fight for their country.

I've met them all, I've taken classes with a lot of them and partied with a lot of them...

the military is just as divided and diverse as we are in this here them forum. They all have an opinion on how the base should be run or how the gov't should run it.

I just listen...cause beneath all of that, there are flesh and blood and hearts behind there...and whenever one of them would talk about "unity" the others would chime in about how they are brotherhood and that they WILL watch eachother's backs.

I BELIEVE That...and after that, they'll go on and disagree again...

I've seen that there and I've seen it here...I know, well, I have to believe that after all the differences have been said and settled, that tomorrow, if someone needs a lift, the other will go and lift them up.

If I didn't believe that, I don't think I will be here posting ever again...

I am not really sure where I was going with this because I really was just going to stay out of it.
For I feel the pain of those veterans and I wish for them that they do not have to suffer the suicidal ideations.

It is tough enough being an ordinary joe like moi to suffer through the thoughts, you add in war, you add in all the other crap, PTSD, whatever, it's gotta be hard...and I wish that I could do something for them...

Gosh, I am just grateful...to be here, posting...having a choice and a chance to voice my opinion...as I value you all....

((((grouphugs))))

I just thought of something...
 

I worked as a bouncer when I was in college and the first Gulf War happened.

We were an hour from Camp Lejune and all the near by bases.

My boss would always tell us to cut the military guys some slack.

College towns are full of very pretty co-eds and it attracts a lot of military dudes.

of course, that's a recipe for a lot of jealousy.

Almost every weekend, we'd brace ourselves for the trouble makers. We'd ban them permanantly but there are always new ones...

after a few months of it, I got tired of it and almost quit...

I went to my boss and he asked moi why.

The first thing that came out of my mouth was:
"I hate the **** military guys...they suck!"

He stared at me a few minutes and asked what I was doing after work. It was pretty late so I told him I was just going to go home and chill...he asked me if I was hungry and would like to join him for a bite at his house, which I'd never been...

I said, sure, never passing up on free food...

I went to his house and while we were eating...he got up and came back with a box. It was a very nice lacy kinda box. Not the type a dude would use...anyways...

he opened it up and showed me his family. His father was in 'Nam. His uncle was in 'Nam.

neither of them made it back...I said something to the effect that that was a stupid war...

he acquiesced...then, he said this to me which I remember from time to time:

" don't log everything and everyone into one group. We are all different..."

with that, he showed me more photos of his dad, a lot of them with him on his dad's back or his dad holding him or his sister or both. Or his dad kissing his mom.

the photos really spoke to me...they were beautiful photos...in almost everyone of those photos, his dad was in his uniform...

he asked me if I still wanted to quit...

I told him I think about it...

I went back to work the next week...and I was more tolerant of the trouble makers...

still not sure why I am writing this...just that the memory came back to me...

OK, I'll shut up now...LOL