Relationship -- One thing each day
 

I don't know the particulars, but having raised a daughter, I do feel for you :hug:..Sounds like she's growing into a really good person! At 18, she needs to distance herself from mom & dad so she can start making a life of her own. With my daughter (and my mom when I was that age), the best thing I found was to talk and tell my daughter openly and honestly how I felt, that I loved her and was proud of the person she was becoming..She started seeing me as an actual human being (:eek:) and I started seeing her as a responsible adult..
Like I said, I don't know the details, but I know you'll work it out in a way that works best for you..Just follow your heart!

((Faith)) When I read your post it sounds like she is a normal young woman trying to spread her wings. You have done a wonderful job with her. In an odd way I think teenagers might distance themselves from their parents in part to make the separation that will soon be taking place easier. She is going to do a great thing so definitely be supportive even though you will miss and worry about her.

I'd suggest giving her a handwritten note. Doesn't have to be anything elaborate but just a "thinking of you".

My Mom sent me a small album of my baby pictures when I was about your DDs age, mostly with my favorite critters of course, and for some reason that was very touching to me even at that rough time.

You could look for a book with information on the places where she will be doing the charity work etc.

Hang in there.


:hug:

Faith,

It truly does sound as if your daughter's a normal child going through the distancing that goes with growing older and getting ready to be an adult.

I feel for you, however. It's not easy having that happen when you want to maintain a close relationship with your child.

Perhaps one thing that you can do to help her feel supported and know she's loved would be to support her in HER endeavor. You don't want her to leave with hard feelings, but you may not be able to prevent that. Unless your relationship is truly terrible, I doubt that she's going to cut you off. So be as supportive as you can of her going to do what it is that she's choosing to do.

See if she needs anything for the time.
Help her research what she will need or is likely to need.
Don't be negative about it--be positive. Try to work up some genuine enthusiasm.
Help her pack to go and slip some personal notes in with her things.

By supporting her endeavor you are telling her that you believe in her and her choices. What a way to tell her you love her without words. Of course, you can say the words and do other little things while you're waiting.

:hug: Hang in there. Sounds like you have a good kid on your hands. Give her time to realize that you are a human with feelings too. If she doesn't realize it now, she probably will by the time she's in her 20s!

I really agree with Gazelle. I think the quickest way to grow closer to someone is to take a genuine interest in what they are doing and really support their efforts. I think your DD will see you in a whole new light if you really support her and help her in her venture in the Gulf.

I, too, distanced myself from my mom when I was her age. You know what happened? As soon as I really moved away, I couldn't call her enough and we grew closer again.

Faith - I have 2 DD around the same age as yours - it is hard I know and I remember doing it to my parents as well. I think the best thing to do is not push to much. You are right to do little things and not seem like you are pushing to hard.

Best of luck and keep us posted - maybe you can teach me some to help with my own dd's.

Faith, as a non-parent, I have never replaced my memories of teen/young adulthood. All parents get dumber and more ignorant than anyone on earth for a period of young life. Deep inside, she knows she respects you, loves you, and secretly admires you and dad.

When she turns about 25, the two of you will have a miraculous infusion of intelligence, wisdom, personality, and senses of humor. Right now, you both are utterly devoid of all those.

A month into her mission, she will think about you both often, miss you, but be too proud and "adult" to admit it to anyone but her closest allies (all of whom will be forgotten by age 30).

One day, she will need advice on "grown-up" things and give you two a chance to prove yourselves. Hence, the great awakening.

My advice is to let her do what she wants without making her feel guilty or as if she has to withhold information. Start stocking her up on things that will make her mission more comfortable and enjoyable. Starbucks cards, some great workboots, her own hammer holster, a couple pairs of Carhart workshorts/pants, etc.

Leave the personal stuff alone, she doesn't even understand it herself.

Sorry about all this.

My DD split at 17 and was gone 4 months. When she came back I was the best thing since sliced bread and have been ever since (2 years). Beleive it or not, they come back a better person. Let her go....she'll come back and all the difficulties will be left behind. (I hope anyway)

Best
J

ah what a cruel time of life. magical and wonderful, yet cruel. We feel we are grown. we feel our parents are stupid and just dont have a clue. We have all the answers, and since we graduated, (the more honors, the smarter we are) highschool, we are now ready to live life as a grown up. The thing is they dont know, what they dont know. Its hard to let go and watch them scrape their knee, or bruise their pride. be exhausted, and become worn down, sick and chose friends that drink and party. unfortunatly its HER lessons to learn. You have done a good job momma. You have raised a fine young woman. its time to stand by her, without insisting on holding her hand while she starts to make her way in this world. She is going to stumble, be tired, worn down, and find people that are going to hurt her. She may hurt herself, but its part of the learning process. many momma's stand by and chew their finger nails to the bone.

Start by giving her some grown up responsibilites. If she wants to be an adult, that comes with the chores of one. If she is not in school, then she needs to be contributing to the house. A token rent payment, and she should be paying at least half of her car insurance. You should NOT be buying gas unless its to help her get to and from work. If she wants to party have friends pick her up. She shouldnt be driving to and from parties any way. Offer to drop her off and pick her up, but dont encourage drunk driving. She should have household chores. Trash, or bathrooms. doing her own laundry, and Im sorry, but I know you love those earrings. lets set up a savings plan so you can afford them on your own, not on daddy's credit card. Going away to build houses is a great idea. it will show her others who have nothing! others who must rely on the kindness of strangers to have a roof, food, and support. its humbling.

Please take comfort that this is a normal part of life. The best you can do is stand beside her while helping her handle some of the responsibilities you are going to be handing her one by one. Hang in there, and watch her blossom. I hope she amazes you. :hug:

Again
 

A simple remark like, "I'm going to miss you!" will say more than anything else.

Are you ok Faith?

:hug:

Yes, tell her you love her. Tell her you support her. Then leave her alone. The harder you try the worse she will treat you. The more you do for her, the more she will take advantage of you. You have reached a tough love stage. I understand where your head is, as mine was there once too.

I finally said enough! You will not treat me this way-ever! I got her an apartment and then walked away. Then she came back to me. She learned valuable lessons while away. She grew up. She found out what it meant to work, pay the bills and respect and care for the ones you love. She found out she was not ready to be grown up and it was great character building experience. Mine was honors too. She graduated a year early. Talk about thinking she knew it all.

I know it hurts...but if you think doing her laundry will make her love you...she won't. It's when you DON'T do her laundry that she comes to appreciate you. The harder you try, the more she'll turn away. Cut the strings, as hard as it is....and stop doing for her. Stop letting her control your life...at this age they enjoy that power they have over you until you say enough.

I have only a few rules now. Tell me where you are. If you won't be home, tell me. Keep the room clean. Do your laundry. Keep PT employment and school (College) Full time. For this, she may live under my roof for free. I pay her car insurance. If she breaks these expectations, she's on her own. She knows it, respects it....and does it.

JMHO

Just a note and words of encouragement. She's got to spread her wings and be allowed the space to become her own person. If that means falling on her face, then that's her lesson to learn.

Here's a quote from one of my daily reads yesterday "Whatever needs to be maintained through force is doomed."~Henry Miller

Now, I'm certainly not saying you are using force. What I'm getting at, is the rest of the read goes onto talk about sometimes we have to step back from other adults(dd is 18) and let them fall if they must. Because there is a difference between caring and caretaking.

I'm sure she doesn't want to hear that her choices are mistakes or her decisions are doomed for disaster, she just wants to know that if she falls, you--mom & dad, will be there to help her move on with her life.

Of course, she's unaware of what personal responsibility is....she's only 18! ;) Gosh, I'm still learning at 33, hehehe. Many of the descriptors you used for your dd---remind me much of myself. She'll grow into a fine woman!

Let her go on this journey. I wish my mom let me go do a volunteer service, in Nevada, prior to starting college. I would have been helping out in an environmental aspect. I could have qualified for further scholarships in college, had I done that. My mom wasn't looking at the bigger picture.

Best of Luck as you learn to let your DD spread her wings.

Faith, it's going to be OK. I would say all kids do this and stretch their wings as they get older, especially at 18. Everything you mentioned by youngest son did and is still doing. The difference is we are OK with it because we like that he's becoming more independent. Yeah, he rolls his eyes and we know he can't wait to get back to school to live on his own but that's OK. We were the same way. She'll come back as her maturity grows. She's just realizing she's an adult and wants to get her toes wet. Let her go and be there when she needs her parents, which I promise you, she will. I am on my 4th year of letting go and it does get easier. :hug:

NOW, put down that laundry!

it was so incredibly painful to watch mine fall, and stumble and make bad choices. it ripped my heart out, and all the fluffy words, and great advice didnt make it feel any better. its something you and she will have to survive.

Tuck a pic of you and her when she was a little kid into her luggage.
emails are great, but try to be her cheerleader and not her teacher. she will be receptive to cheerleading, and get distant on lessons. tuck a pre paid phone card into her luggage, so that if she wants/needs to call home, she can without worry of money. talk her her, let her know that you are trying, but sometimes its hard to let babies be grown women.

It was so hard, but mine stumbled, fell, scraped both knees, and bled alot. she stopped doing things that made her bleed. she stopped seeing others that picked at open wounds. she made good choices, and she made bad ones. she learned from the bad ones, and was proud of the good ones.

Hang in there. its a tough thing to go through.

I totally agree with AMN and the others who have suggested, words will go farther than a material item, let her know how you feel, talking is the best meds, and I am pretty sure I was 24 yrs old when i finally realized my folks were not living in the darkages

Faith, what I "hear" you saying is that you really just want ideas on how to show your love . . . not so much advice that this isn't what your daughter needs right now? (Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.)

I suspect this is because you don't like the dynamics that have been going on, and you want to try to balance out the arguments with some amount of tranquility in the house.

To that end, I've tried to think of some ideas:

- buy her favorite shampoo/perfume and leave it by her bedroom door
- leave a rose on her pillow
- drop a "have a good time" card, (with stars tucked in that fall out when she opens it :p) in her luggage when she goes off for the weekend
- send her anonymous balloons to her work on valentines day
- buy her her own tweezers or an eye-lash curler . . . something she's always borrowed from you but would love to have of her own
- tell her something looks nice on her
- make a point of thanking her when she takes initiative to do something, like hauls the garbage cans in without being asked
- take her for a pedicure with you
- ask her if she wants to go to "Mac" with you so you can both have a make-up consultation

There are really so many things I can think of, but most cost some amount of money and it sounds like she is already getting a lot taken care of for her. More then anything, I think she needs to learn to stand on her own two feet (or fall on her face a few times).

I think the real issue is what everyone has said though. She IS an adult, you can't control her any more, and she does have to make her own mistakes. The harder you try to act like a doting mother, the more she will pull away. Once you accept that, the fighting will probably stop, and the house will be much calmer anyway.

However . . . it might mean she really does need to break away for a while first though . . . even if it is just free-loading somewhere else.

I remember when a friend of mine was going through this with his 17 yr old. My question to him was "what were you doing at 17?". His response was that he was "in the first year of the police academy". For some reason, he just didn't see his son as grown up as HE thought he was at that age.

I know you just want to protect her . . . :hug:

Cherie

DD has started "Mom is an idiot - roll eyes, OMG " phase. I can't change her being a teen but when she enters a room, try to let my eyes and face show I'm glad to see her. No words, no fake overacting, just letting her know I like her. When she brings a report card home (she gets As in classes she likes, if she doesn't - it's a C) Tell her , "It's just a piece of paper". Then Cs stopped, now the grade is for her, not me..
The harder you hold, the more they struggle to escape.

Of course, now I've said that, she'll give me fits.

She probably sees all those "supportive years" as years that she did what you wanted her to and/or approved of. Now that she is trying to break away, you don't "seem" to agree with any of her choices (at least that's how she sees it).

Of course it's much easier to drive our kids all those years to ballet lessons then it is to a party or rock concert. We know they are safe when we take them to an adult supervised "lesson", but when they are off to a party with perhaps no supervision . . . If we even LET them go then we start in on the "don't do this", "don't do that", "watch out for" and eventually "I told you so's". They never got nagged like that when they went to ballet . . . :D

Some kids go through this when they are 12, and some at 18 . . . but almost ALL go through it. In many ways you are lucky because she has been very obedient and focused until this age (good grades, etc., which is going to really help her in the longer run), but she intends to cut loose a bit now. I know that's scary. :hug:

She is an adult though, and other then expecting her to pay her way at your home (like any other boarder might have to do), you really have no authority over her any more. She can go in the reserves, she can vote and drink in some countries . . . she can even start a family if she wants.

Cherie

My letter, to DD
 

I emailed this to her this morning. She will probably not get around to reading it until this evening. She may, or may not, reply.

~ Faith

August 20, 2008

Dear ____;

Thank you, again, for sharing with us, the other evening, about your thoughts and feelings. I am glad that you believe family is important, and that you want to be happy, and to have fun with us. I hope that we can turn that around. I want to have fun with you, too.

Our perceptions (yours and mine) are very different. I believe that, when you and (brother)____ were toddlers, pre-schoolers, and in elementary school, that I parented very much like _____ and _____. (BTW, DD compared us, unfavorably, to parents of children that she babysits, that she greatly respects.) As you changed, the way that I parented changed too. Things evolve. Life happens. It saddens me to have you compare me with someone else, and to have you put me in the “poor parenting” category.

I have had some trouble with anger in recent years. I believe that is related to my MS. I believe that, when it happens, I am not able to control it. I do not wish to be judged for this. I do not wish for all the previous years to be deleted from your memory. I want you to look at me fairly.

I also have some thoughts, about you not feeling supported by us, for years. I am saddened, and confused, by that. I do not know what you wish I would have done differently. And, you were not able to express that. When I asked, you felt pushed. I cannot make changes if I do not know what changes you want. Please continue to think about that, and to share that with me, if any of that begins to become more clear to you.

I do not understand how you have not felt supported for years. I have not agreed with, or supported, many of your decisions during the past year. I do not apologize for that. As I have said, I cannot pretend to agree with something that I do not believe is in your best interests. But, I do apologize for not conveying that in a more loving manner. I am sorry for that, ____.

When you were young, I was so happy. I thoroughly enjoyed every day off that I had with you and ____. We played games, we read books, we went to the library and the park. We did lots of things together.

As you grew, and your interests changed, I drove you to swim practice, and back. I watched you practice. I attended swim meets, at home, and away. We spent days at 1 day meets, 2 day meets, 3 day meets. We planned much of our entire family schedule, for almost a decade, around your swimming. Sometimes, unfortunately, at (brother)____’s expense. (Perhaps he did not feel supported, because we were so busy supporting you.)

We spent countless dollars on swimming, because we supported it. I do not regret that, for most of those years. I do wonder about the wisdom of spending that money during the later years, when you chose to attend much fewer swim practices, but, we still did it, because we believed it was important to you. We supported you. I spent countless hours supporting your swimming, because you enjoyed it and you worked hard at it. I enjoyed watching you swim.

For years, I drove you to piano lessons, sat through your lesson, and drove you home. I encouraged you to practice piano. I did not make you quit, even when you would practice only one day a week. I supported you. Flute lessons, too. We purchased a $400 flute for you, when you had an adequate flute. We supported you.


For many, many years, I bragged to my friends, in small group, at church, at work, about how hard-working you were – with swimming, and in school. I suspect that most of them would be very surprised to hear that you have not felt supported, for years. I supported you.


I regret that the last years have not been as happy as previous years were. I believe that we have both contributed for that. I am sorry for my part. I hope that you recognize your part in the problem, too. It is not healthy, or accurate, usually, to believe that a problem is caused solely by one person. Life just usually does not happen that way. If you are unhappy about our relationship, you need to look inside, and see what you could have differently, as well. I suspect that these last years have clouded your view of all of the previous years. I do not want you to enter your adult years, believing that you lived an entire unhappy childhood. That is not ever, ever, ever what I would have wanted for you.

I am currently proud of many of your recent decisions. You have been a leader in the youth group. You love God. You want to serve, through MDS. You have served, in many capacities, over the years.

Again, it saddens me that, because I do not agree with some of your 2008 decisions, that everything else seems to be thrown out the window.

I want to keep this dialogue open. I want to hear your thoughts, if you can figure out what they are. You do not feel understood. I do not feel understood. We are in the same boat.

Let’s please keep talking.

Thank you for listening.

Love,
~Mom

Yes, they were her choices, but the "good" choices of a child, and ones you would have agreed with. :D

If she had instead chose to:

- go to the movies with a bunch of boys
- sneak out the window at 3:00 am
- drink
- hang out at the park all day with a group of thugs
- get a tattoo
- pierce her tongue
- wear only black and dye her hair pink
- etc.

... then you wouldn't have supported her then either, right?

Cherie

Would have loved her.. Would not have supported her decisions. Would have prayed for and supported her (not her decisions). Those are different.

I think that is what she, also, does not understand.

~ Faith

Faith, I have been reading through this thread trying to come up with ideas to help you. I know we have PMed a few times as our daughters were/are both having similar issues over the past year.

Last night when DD18 came home, and I hope you don't mind this, I talked to her about this and asked what she would want me to do and what her expectations were of me. These are some key points that she made.

1. Don't buy me things or do special things for me it will on make me madder and not want to talk to you. Also, it would make me want to keep behaving in a negative way as I will get gifts and special things. Then I only learned how to manipulate. If you are going to get me things, get me things to help me move out. But, don't kiss up to me because I'm being a brat.

2. Do show that you support my decision to "move out" but don't go doing everything for me.

3. Don't send me texts, e-mails, or notes saying how much you love me. I already know that and it will make me mad.

4. Help me with learning how to be an adult. Teach me how to budget and how to manage a bank account. (She just recently overdrew on her account and called me bawling about it.)

These are straight from an 18 year old who is dying to move out as well as thinking that because she is an adult now she can do what she wants. WRONG! There are consequences for every action and now that she is 18 the consequences are greater and less forgiving. A few weeks ago she was furious with me as she wanted to go somewhere at 12 midnight. NOT! Although I have extended her curfew to 1, there was no way that she could get to her friends house to pick up another friend who was going to spent the night and make it back home.

I did do a estimated budget with her a few months ago and she realize, with much tears involved, that she does not make enough to move out. Her car insurance, which she has to pay herself, and gas take up her entire pay for the month. After doing the budget, I asked her "Now, what can you do to get to where you can move out and be on your own?" Not that I was kicking her out or anything, it was a matter of I know you want to move out and support your decision.

I think simply telling her (without overdoing it) how proud you are of her. Really! She sounds amazing with the jobs, the activities, and the work that she will be doing in the Gulf. Also ask her what you can do to help her get ready for her trip.

Telling her verbally and looking her in the eye, how much you appreciated her coming to talk to you will mean everything to her. Say it once and let it go. She wants to be treated in a more adult manner and, let's face it, that's what we adults do to each other - say we appreciate it and move on.

I do wish you both the best of luck and will keep you in my prayers.:hug:

Oh, btw, once she is down in the Gulf and helping out, definitely send care packages and such. She will really appreciate them.

I can’t imagine that I would EVER stop loving my children, no matter what they did. That’s not even really a “choice”, it’s a given . . . and of course she already knows you love her.

It sounds like she has always done things to please you, and you have supported her because she’s done mostly everything a good little girl is “supposed” to do. She is not a little girl any more though . . . and you can’t control the decisions she makes.

I don’t agree with some of the choices my 16 yr old makes either, but I definitely pick my battles. She wanted a “little tattoo on her ankle”, and I said “NO, not until you are an adult (18) . . . then YOU can choose how you permanently alter your body”. I still won’t like it if she does that then . . . but it will definitely be her choice as an ADULT.

She wanted a belly-button pierce. I said “No tongue, no privates, in no place that will scar you . . . but you can have a teeny-tiny nose stud”. That satisfied her.

She wants to go to parties. I let her go, but she MUST come home so I can observe her behavior upon her return.

She wanted to travel with her friends to Florida. I said “No, but you can travel to anywhere in Canada (and only with certain friends)”. I am afraid to let her go, but it is a relatively safe way to let her learn.

She has made some mistakes, and that’s what kids normally do. It sounds as though your daughter has not sewn her oats at all (until recently), but now that she is an adult, you have no authority to put limits on her. She is legally allowed to do what she wants, and she IS going to mess up at times. Hopefully she won’t have a tattoo on her forehead by the time she’s done.

You have raised her well, Faith. She has strong morals and values, and she will come back to them when all is said and done. There comes a point though where you have to STAND BACK, and just pray they come out of it alive. I know, it’s agonizing.

I was a pretty good kid, but when my mom tried to tell me what to do at 15, I moved out on my own. I cooked, cleaned and did laundry for 12 people in order to support myself through high school. You might not agree with what she is doing, but at least you know she is alive every morning when you wake up. Count your blessings, and don’t sweat the small stuff.

I mean this with the best intentions.

Cherie

I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY like what you said to your DD here :D "What can YOU do, to get to where you WANT to be...." Wonderful choice of words...and it gives them their responsibility for their actions/consequences and feelings!!! I'm going to memorize this....and I know, the day will come where I will need to use it myself!!! :hug:


Faith, sometimes when you put so much focus on the sacrifices that You've made as a parent, it may make the child feel guilt. Especially, when they are grappling with the issue of identity....Who am I? Where do I want to be? How much do I need to separate my identity from the identity of my family/parents? These things that she 'wanted' growing up, may or may not be what she wants as she grows older. I'm certain she is already aware of the sacrifices that you've made as a parent, kwim?

All in all, it was a lovely letter. I wish my mom would write more. She gabs more and sometimes I wish I'd see her own feelings written out...so that I could understand her better, if that makes sense?

Your post has been a bit therapeutic for me ;) Thanks! :hug::grouphug: (fyi, my mom's name 'means' Faith :) )

Thank you for this, tkrik. I genuinely appreciate the effort you made to obtain another DD18's perspective.

Can't say, however, that anything that your daughter offered would work for me. I cannot be someone that I am not. Hope it's OK if I respond to you, regarding her suggestions.

1. I do not intend to shower DD with lots of expensive gifts. Is not my way. However, small tokens that show that I care, I think are appropriate. I do not think that they would make her mad. Bought some small frames, which she likes, from Thrift store. 10 cents each. Might put photos in some. Might just give some to her, to fill.

2. I cannot show her that I support her decision to move out. That would be a lie. I do not support running away from your problems.

Not appropriate; in my view. Not at all.

3. I hope that my expressions of love will not make her mad. If they do, she has a problem that she needs to deal with.

4. She knows how to budget. That WOULD make her mad. Does not apply to this situation, that I can see, in any way.

Sorry. Didn't want this post to be negative -- because my honest reaction is really very much appreciation -- for your post.

~ Faith.\

I just realized I must be weird. lol When my kids turned 18 they didn't have a curfew anymore. All we expected was to know where they were in case we needed them and to not worry.

Once I sent them off to college they were doing this anyway and to expect them to revert back to having a curfew seemed rather weird to us. I guess we were lucky to trust them enough to not impose it? They have never given me a reason not to trust them so unless they do something that loses that trust, they have no curfew.

I will tell you that once I let go, they became more responsible. When I stopped telling them their decisions were not the best, they became more responsible. When I stopped treating them like they were still in high school, they became more responsible. When I stopped trying to be too much of a friend, too much of a parent, they became more responsible.

BUT, I do still throw in the "I told ya so" when something doesn't go the way they thought, with a smile of course! :D

Faith - no offense taken whatsoever.

Each family and situation is different. This was just an example of 1 out of millions of 18's thoughts. Her personality is different than your daughters, your personality is different than mine, relationships with our daughters are different, etc., etc. In your heart, you know what is the right thing to do for and with your daughter.

I do want you to know that you are not alone in this. DD18 has a friend that has gone wild. I mean wild, not drugs and all that, but staying out all night, drinking, erratic behavior, etc.. Her mom calls me often in tears over it. I feel for her terribly as deep in her daughter is a wonderful, bright, and compassionate girl. Her behavior lately is not reflective of that and is effecting all relationships within their household. It is sad.

What ever you decide to do, your acts of kindness and love for her will make a lasting impression on her. When all is said and done, she will remember the things you have done for her.

Hang in there, Faith.:hug:

I have been doing little things like this for years. It has helped them with decision making and taking responsibility for their decisions. Mind you, they were little decisions.

Although, DD16 is trying to make a decision between finding a part-time job and working as a core leader in the middle school program at our church. Once you are confirmed, you can help out with the middle school youth group. Last night she kept saying, "I don't know what to do." I know she wanted me to tell her but this is a decision that I can't make for her. She needs to just follow her heart and do what she feels she needs to do. We did talk about the pros and cons of each and the reasons that she wants to do both.

I know which one she will end up choosing, youth group leader as she wants that experience and loves doing this kind of stuff. But, she may surprise me as she is a senior this year and senior year is EXPENSIVE!!! (Her only reason for wanting a job).

Sorry for the HI JACK! Back to Faith . . . .