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Possibly alcoholic neuropathy
Hi everyone Im new here and looking for advice. Around 2 month ago the soles of my feet went numb followed by pins n needles and now they both burn. The tingling has also spread to my hands. I did an Electrical test (not sure of name) on my feet at a hospital in Bkk where the neuro didn't tell me much except "not as bad as he thought" and gave me 300gm of lyrica and 25 g of Nortipolyn to take every day.I All of my blood work came back as normal and my liver is in perfect condition even though I have been drinking for 30 years non stop including binging most weekends. I have also had several alcohol withdrawal seizures over that time.I handle my my booze very well and most cant tell when Im drunk. Im 46y male. Am going to see a neuro in Australia next month and will take a copy of my reports. In the meantime Im taking the following supplements and would like to know if I should be taking anything else
Vitamin b group inc thiamine Neuromet is Mecobalamin, each 1 ml ampoule contain 500mcg mecobalamin and each tablet contains 500 mcg mecobalamin. Neuromet is indicated in peripheral neuropathies, megaloblastic anemia due to vitamin B12 deficiciences magnesium,Calcium, vitamin D,fish oil, folic acid I have scaled back the pain killers to just 75mg of Lyrica/day I also had chronic gout in both legs whilst in hospital and am taking 300mg puride per day. They also gave me oral steroids to take for a week to stop the swelling The most annoying problem is the constant minor swelling of my right foot giving me permanent stabbing pain when walking and dont think its gout but neuro related. The steroids help but don't think I should be taking them to often right? The burning is annoying and the lyrica helps but don't like the spaced out feeling Anything else I should be doing for this? many thanks for any responses |
anything else you should do?
Yes....stop drinking altogether. 30 years of non stop drinking and binging is catastrophic to your health. Alcohol is a neurotoxin! I am a sober alcoholic with peripheral neuropathy. Go to alcoholics anonymous and get clean & sober. You are shortening your life and killing your nerve cells. every alcoholic thinks they handle their booze...but they are the only ones who do. AA can help tremendously...good luck..
ann |
Hi zorrro13 & welcome to this forum, usually excessive alcohol use causes huge depletions of B1 levels out of the body, so especially the thiamine supplements are a very good idea, i took 3 x 100 mg daily of B1 for a long time, it seemed to help some with the burning, for me anyway, with the B12 methylcobalamin normally 1000 mcg [on a empty stomach] daily is the least we take here, some here take 5 mg [5,000 mcg] daily, depends on the individual & of course the other B vitamins in a multi B are needed as well to help the other B's work properly.
Have you had a Glucose Tolerance test or just the fasting Glucose test ? as a fasting glucose test is useless for testing for Prediabetes, which can cause the same nerve problems as a full blown diabetic. good luck with the neuro appointment anyway. Brian :) |
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thanks everyone I have cut back significantly (really) and am trying my best to get sober. over the last few days the burning has cut back dramatically and I assume its through rigorous consumption of suppliments over a 2 month period?. One question, is 500 mcg mecobalamin. the same as methylcobalamin ? slightly diff spelling but its what my neuro in Thailand gave me and its a tiny white sugar coated tablet to take twice daily |
Yep same stuff, it is the active form of b12, not like b12 cynocobalamin has to be converted by the liver into the active form.
Alcohol is a nerve irritant so cutting back and the B vitamins are propably both helping, best to stop it all together when your able to, if it is beer you drink, all the sugar in it can irritate the nerves too, even some people with idiopathic PN can have a reaction to a lot of sugar, i used to like a drink myself but give it up because of the neuropathy. |
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zorro13...,
I was hospitalized for pancreatitis (from drinking alcohol to excess over a 2 yr period),....12 yrs ago - and my liver was fine. I do not have diabetes, either . I was self-medicating for my pain, and causing damage as I was doing it. But my alcohol caused my neuropathy (undiagnosed at the time) to be compromised. But my liver was OK- by their tests (and still is), and my pancreas recovered in a matter of weeks. Alcohol (even 1 glass of wine or 1 beer) will cause me discomfort and pain an hour or more afterward. It is a proven fact that alcohol will deteriorate the myelin sheath and will cause neuropathy - in itself. Drinking & PN do not go together very well. |
I don't have any answers for you but want to say thanks for being honest about your condition and raising an issue that probably many people are relucant to discuss. Like many people, I like to have a drink or two but in the back of my mind always wondered if this is affecting my neuropathy in a negative manner. However, it is one of life's little pleasures and when you have stressful things going on like a health issue it is hard to take away things you enjoy.... But I think I really should consider whether it is a factor in my neuropathy (idiopathic).
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I drank beer most of my adult life and my liver is in good shape going by blood tests, which shocked me a bit too, i was also assured that i didn't have diabetes by 1 doctor & one so called neuro, but they didn't send me for a 3 hour glucose tolerance test, my 2nd neuro did and found that i had prediabetes, it was the cause of my nerve damage, that is why i was asking about the Glucose Tolerance test.
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I drank heavily for years but have had very few drinks in the last 25 years.
Could it be the cause of my idiopathic showing up just a year ago? An angle I never thought of, guess there's not much I can do about it at this point anyway. |
Normal Range for Glucose
I had a 2 hr glucose tolerance test recently. I was advised that the results were a 94 and the nurse indicated that I was not diabetic. Can someone advise what is the normal range that the docs are looking for? Would a 94 be considered pre-diabetic? What is the magic number that terms a person a diabetic?
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Leslie, if i remember right it was,
Measurements taken 2 hours after drinking a 75-gram glucose drink - Less than 140 mg/dL is considered normal 140 to 200 mg/dL - Impaired glucose tolerance (pre-diabetes) Over 200 mg/dL - Diabetes. .................................................. .............. fasting glucose test - From 70 to 99 mg/dL - Normal From 100 to 125 mg/dL -Impaired glucose tolerance above diabetes Brian :) |
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Brian :) |
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Alcoholic neuropathy is not well understood. For many years, it was attributed to the poor diet that alcoholics have, including the lack of vitamin B, particularly thiamine and folic acid. Some people have attributed it to toxic effects of alcohol. Personally, I am not sure that it is related to alcohol. Several attempts have been made to reproduce alcohol neuropathy by giving alcohol long-term to animals but without success. In my opinion, it is not a toxic effect of alcohol on the nerves but a nutritional deficiency. It is also possible that it is a result of toxins that may be present in certain types of alcohols. The diagnosis of alcohol neuropathy is demonstration of sensory deficits in the peripheral system (or slowed conduction time in the peripheral nerves) associated with prolonged heavy continuous alcohol consumption. It may manifest in other nerves besides the legs, particularly the vagus nerve which tends to show up as increased heart-rate (since the vagus nerve reduces heart rate) and other autonomic neuropathy. Alcoholic neuropathy occurs more frequently in women and involves multiple nerves, e.g. polyneuropathy. In general, the symptoms of alcoholic neuropathy include early numbness of the soles, particularly at night in the beginning. "Pins and needles" sensations develop and may progress to severe and lancinating pain. The symptoms start distally and progress proximally. When the symptoms involve areas above the ankle, some numbness of the fingertips may occur, with stocking and glove pattern of sensory involvement. Sensory ataxia may result. Autonomic dysfunction are more rare but may manifest as loss of heart rate reflex changes, abnormaly pupillary function, sexual impotence, and sleep apnea, orthostatic hypotension, hypothermia, and gait problems. If he does have alcohol neuropathy, the prognosis is good, if he stops drinking and has a normal diet The axons should regenerate. I don't know where the suggestion comes from that this is permanent but it is not true. If it does not reverse, this suggests that there is some other cause other than alcoholic neuropathy. Wise. |
Zorro,
Please give the link to Dr Wise Young on alcoholic neuropathy reversing in 5 years. This is interesting, since my neuro- Dr Griffin, is the head of the neuro dept at Johns Hopkins, and has published numerous papers on various neuropathies (primarily pre-diabetic) and has conducted studies in The US, China, and other places - has determined my PN is of alcoholic neuropathy. It is over 10 years since my initial Dx and a good 2-4 years of undiagnosed suffering, prior. I'd like to run the paper or comment with my neuro, to see what he has to say. I would think he might be aware of Dr Young, but not specifically this comment. I am aware of Dr Young and his website for spinal cord injury patients, as I had to us it as a resource 2 yrs ago when one of my sons broke his neck in a swimming accident and is now a quadriplegic. I think the world of Dr Young, but also am adamantly confident in Dr Griffin's Dx and treatment. |
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I am still on vacation...
so I only read the first part of this thread.
I have two comments now... 1) Allopurinol is one of the drugs that can cause PN. This is not common but it does happen and is documented on MedLine. 2) If you switch to benfotiamine--which is a more potent type of thiamine you may see an improvement. This has become more affordable recently and if you get it at iherb.com it is not as expensive as it was (but it is more than plain thiamine). 300mg a day to start is best. I use Doctor's Best brand. It is possible that your issues are from something else. Other drugs cause PN --some quickly. Cipro/Levaquin Metronidazole statins for cholesterol And these may be the cause or additive. I'll be back in a week and can devote more time and thought then. See ya. |
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Hi zorro13. My PN started the same as yours, soles of feet tingling. It felt like I was standing in a tub of hot water which was gradually filling up and covering my feet and then going up my legs. I thought it was caused by smoking, so I quit (5 years and holding!), but it didn't improve. I had blood tests, MRI, etc., no explanation. Then along came Google and I found all my symptoms by typing "fried nerve endings", what a relief, at least I knew what I had now. By then my two smallest fingers on each hand, and down arm, had the "numb tinglies" too, and the legs were numb up to the knees. Walking was very difficult, flat shoes that enclosed whole foot were a necessity. No more 3" highheel sandels. Since then I FINALLY gave up my beloved wine because I managed to stop for 3 months and the improvement was impossible to ignore. Just to test it, I drank about 3 glasses on the anniversary of the 3rd month. Oh boy. Right back to Square One the next day, along with tingly cheek and a twitch under my left eye. Then last Sun. I woke up with double vision. That was pretty scary and went on for 4 days. I had a CT Scan yesterday bc the doctor thinks it was a stroke, but I think it's the PN somehow. We'll find out. I also noticed that stress makes it worse even if I'm sober as a judge, so looks like I'll need to find another job too. I hope you have good luck on your PN road, it seems the symptoms are pretty varied as to pain. I don't have pain at all; well, now and then a sharp pain like a pin stabbing somewhere, but really nothing to complain about. If it never got worse than this, I could live the rest of my life very happily (exscept for the lack of wine). STOP DRINKING! It WILL help. And any stress in your life, get rid of it. Good luck ~ Rosy |
if
if your PN started BEFORE the allopurinol, then it is probably not a factor. If it started after you were given it or worsened however, I would suspect it. Allopurinol is not an easy drug on the body, and I have seen over the years, that in US, where I am, it has fallen in use substantially.
most people here use colchicine for acute management only. |
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Since day one my right foot has been worse than the left and since day one it has been slightly swollen but only noticeable to me for example if I stand you can see the veins on my left foot but not my right. This gives me a slight limp when I walk due to niggling minor stabbing pain. The pain is mostly in the soft tissue in the arch of my foot and only when I walk or stand. My rheumatoligist who is aware of nerve damage has given me Prednisolone 5 mg x6 per day if I get Chronic Gout Pain. This swelling I don't believe is gout as Ive had it for over a month however the Prednisolone is very effective and take it occasionally to stop the swelling which doesn't appear to be Neuro related. I also take 200mg of celebrex per day. Question 1.Is it dangerous take Predisolone for long periods? 2.What supplements can I use to help the swelling? you can see on my op what supplements I am taking. 3. What do you think maybe causing the swelling? I have only started taking low dose Lyrica 75mg/day in the last few days and the swelling started well before that Thanks in advance |
Same thing here much like I am a good drunk always it makes me feel better and sleep well, but oh man it's the biggest lie I ever told myself.
I walk one day at a time. zorrro13 please note that all AA groups are differnt so shop around try differnt groups you dont have to go everyday I go once every 2- 3 months at best just as a remainder of how my ex-best friends {Beer- Vodkas} hurt me bad. Here is a test dont drink for min 24 hours then drink 2 beers only, 2 hours later your peripheral nervous system will light up like a christmas tree or at least mine does . Other then PN I am in great health. So it's one day at a time for you me and millions of others. I am trying to find a newer and better friend in myself. We can talk any time you want email, phone or jJust know your not alone |
prednisolone and related steroids
are hard on the body. So yes, over time, it may thin your bones, cause low potassium/magnesium, and harm the stomach.
It is hard to evaluate swelling of the feet. I'll use myself as an example. All vacation my feet were great (except when I had the viral attack/stiff neck and ear pain). Neither swelled up either. But as soon as I returned home, my feet AND HANDS have been mildly swollen, like they usually are. So what is different? Well, breathing polluted air, drinking chlorinated city water, and climbing stairs all day long. Those 3 things are missing on vacation. Also there is a different mattress to sleep on. The chairs you sit in! (my chairs here at the computer do not exist at our vacation place). Lyrica and Neurontin cause swelling in many people. So I would consider it a culprit too, even at lower doses. If you are doing better, I would consider dropping it to see if your swelling improves. Swelling also gets better if you supplement vitamin B6. I would use P5P if you can get it there, in doses no more than 50mg a day. People who have alcohol intolerance or prior addiction really should use thiamine daily to support the alcohol dehydrogenase system. The newer better form is benfotiamine. But I don't know if you have that over there either. Shoes can be a culprit too. Plain sandals do not give support to the foot, and are hard if you walk long distances. If you have any pronation issues in the ankle (weak ankles) this pain can refer up the leg and down into the foot. Using proper orthotic supports can correct this. Sometimes just mechanical changes can be profound (this happened with my son). Make sure your magnesium is a good type. If it is magnesium oxide---you are not benefiting from it. The oxide form is very common, and recently was tested in humans by taking blood levels after consuming and found to not be absorbed compared to other types-- the chloride delayed release and chelates like citrate/malate/glycinate/lactate were all far superior. Make sure if you are taking thiamine you are getting enough. 300mg a day at least. You would have to take this separately from any mixed complex type (which are lower generally). Benfotiamine is better and longer lasting in the body. It is a fat soluble form of thiamine and has been used in Europe now for many years. These suggestions are all I can think of for now. But see how they pertain to you. |
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New Development
This is interesting, I just had the mold of my feet done for the supports and after looking at them he suggested I lie on the the table and straight away he says your right foot is shorter than your left visually by around 1cm or more. That's got me thinking if its possible that it may be causing or contributing some way to my neuropathy as well . I don't have back pain and have never been to a chiropractor. I am a serious walker and walk everywhere, everyday sometimes many miles and have done so all my life. Should I see a chiropractor or just use the supports for a while? Really don't know where to go with this so any advice from anyone appreciated.
p.s I haven't been diagnosed with what type of Neuropathy I have yet but Alcohol is the front runner for now |
I think sometimes it takes a huge issue to make one stop an addiction and never go back. I really feel that support groups regardless of issue can help one stick to recovery. It is not a failure to get support but a strength. Also to help you see why you used drinking to cope or not with life. I feel that if people don't find out the reasons behind there addiction other issues or possible addictions or unhealthy ways of living will come into there life. Not for everyone but for many. I have many friends who suffered from eating disorder and then got well but became addicted to drugs. It was just switching issues cause the feelings and issues were still there.
I do agree though pain is a huge factor and health issues that don't go away that I didn't even do to myself as a factor to keeping me in recovery. The days I want to give in I just remind myself of the health issues I have and how they don't go away so doing more damage to myself won't help. Ok there is my long rant. Hang in there and as we say in the recovery world take one day at a time. |
Its all individual.
In 1998-99 I was drinking a quart (or more) of vodka a day to self medicate for the pain and became dependent on alcohol. In 2000 when I was Dx'd with PN - I stopped- cold turkey. No AA. No groups. Just stopped. Stayed off for 5 years except at New Year's eve - 1 glass of champagne or my birthday- one drink- beer or wine. Now, I like a beer or wine with dinner - one beer, on occasion. Last nite I had brats with sauerkraut & a beer - one. My neuro looked at my drinking history and pronounced alcoholic PN. Some tests, skin biopsy,etc.- the Dx stuck. I think it was B12 deficiency prior to the drinking (and the drinking made it worse, but I didn't know that at the time), but........ that's life. |
Chronic Inflammatory Demylinating Polyneuropathy (CIDP)
Well here goes on my first post in any forum anywhere; so if I make any glaring procedural errors please feel free to correct me.
This thread is the most comprehensive and useful discussion I have come across in ten years - possibly because I am always doing stuff and research for other people which is actually what brought me here. I was diagnosed with CIDP in England in May of 1999 and since then I have been taking Prednisilone (Prednisone in the US) I have little doubt that it was alcohol related as I spent 25 years as an aviator in the Royal Navy - and you drink! Particularly after an arrested night landing on the small decks that we had then!! So I have been diligently taking my 15mg of prednisilone daily and trying to go lower. It appears there is no alternative for me although I am thinking/hoping that the knowledgeable MRSD will jump in and say "Just a minute!" Yes, of course I have developed the inevitable prednisone related osteoporosis and stomach and weight issues; I am waiting on the cataractsin due course! But what brought me here is my research in the last two days into Human Embryo Stem Cell (HESC) therapy for my T12 paraplegic mother-in-law. During my surfing I found a blog from a lady with CIDP who is undergoing stem cell therapy in China. I have still to examine that further for results but wondered if anyone else may have looked into this as my fingers and eyes are getting tired from all this PC time and I need to go out to repair my tractor and utility cart for a while. |
Link to Dr Wise Young re. Alcoholic neuropathy?
Hi,
I am new and not sure where to ask this question. Does anyone have the link to Dr Wise Young's information on alcoholic neuropathy reversing in 5 years.... that is something I would really like to read. I have alcoholoc neuropathy my self (for the past 4 and a half years). Have stopped drinking, taking Benfotiamine, Calcium, Magnesium, etc. Have definitely seen some improvement. Most of the pain has gone, but still left with th numbness.... murgy Quote:
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A few Years on how are you all doing?
Hi to all the above posters, I am new here and are yet to see a neurologist. I am hoping you are all travelling well and could offer some suggestions to myself.
I am struggling to come to terms with what it believed to be polyneuropathy and fear the future, I want to enjoy watching my young kids grow up and be able to do things with them. Is this possible? How have you all managed to cope? Kind Regards Keckie |
Keckie, could you tell us more about yourself? How old are you, what kind of symptoms do you have? Do you suspect an alcoholic neuropathy or has it been confirmed?
I have hereditary neuropathy, so have had symptoms all my life, including when my children were younger. My youngest is now 15, I have two grandsons under 3. I was much more active when the children were little, but have had to cut back a lot on what I do. The more that you tell us about you the more we can help. Also sometimes the participants in older discussions like this are no longer active on the forum. We do have a good core group of people who have been here a long time and who represent a lot of knowledge and experience and are willing to share. You may get better results if you start a new thread. |
Welcome Keckie. :Tip-Hat:
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In terms of other symptoms they started a few months back with acing legs and arms going dead during the nigh when slept on side and if sat on hard surfaces such as the floor or toilet or hard seat I would get instant tingling/pins and needles. Then in the last month they include dizziness, foggy brain (cant concentrate), weakness in legs and arms and slight numbness and fatigue. If I lay in one position for a while with my neck elevated I sometimes get double vision, or if I get up at night the oven light looks fuzzy. This has been occurring more regularly now. ABout a year ago I put my back out (cant remember how) and couldn't walk for 3 days, I ask for some scans but they discouraged it, and of late I have increased my gym activities doing personal training and numerous class like pump and boxing. It was after I overdid in a boxing class that my symptoms really ramped up. That night my calves had immense tingling and pins and needles and toes felt slightly numb and my hand shook for 2 days. I thought I had just overdone it and let it go for a week but then things just progressively got worse. I ended up in the emergency room with severe weakness of arms and legs. Because it was in all four limbs they don't believe it is due to a bulging disc and did blood work which has all come back normal, slightly raised inflammation marker but not enough to warrant my symptoms they say. I also had some xrays done by a chiropractor and this showed my neck curves in the wrong way and there is compression in the lowest part of m spine but hey also don't think this will give me the symptoms I am having. So I have been kicking myself for all the times I had gone out and had too good a time drinking wine and am extremely stressed and anxious about it. I have had raised heart rate and blood pressure but not sure if this due to the above or my stress. I am 33 and have a 5 year old and a 3 year old. I took my first Lyrica last night after been extremely concerned about side effects. Susanne if its ok to ask have you had any success with medications? Thankyou and I will lthink about posting a new thread. |
My motor symptoms included being uncoordinated and unable to run from early childhood. Numbness started in my early 30's with my feet, then moved up, I have loss of sensitivity to hip level at this point. I also started then with pains in my legs. Numbness in my hands and arms set in a little later.
I am one of the people who does get relief from Gabapentin, the earlier form of Lyrica. From the beginning it greatly decreased the burning and electrical zaps and allowed me to get some sleep. It did not help the sharp leg pain and I have medication for that. I am able to function, go for walks on soft trails, no asphalt or cement, do light housework ( I have a friend who helps clean), and cook. I have had to take care of my daughter and her toddler when she was on bed rest with the last baby and it was way too much for me, so I understand why you are worried about taking care of your young children. My back problems flare up pretty much anytime I pick up the babies. Your age and the fact that you are in good physical condition is in your favor. Alcohol in general aggravates nerve issues, so you should lay off, but you have to drink a lot to develop alcoholic neuropathy. The symptoms that you describe are classic neuropathy, but the fatigue and dizziness might indicate an autonomic or other condition. I did not have a lot of side effects from the medication, but a lot of people do. I wish you were getting more guidance from your doctors. Have you seen a neurologist or had an EMG? They really should be more aggressive about looking for causes at this stage. If it is bilateral there is less chance it is from the disc problems, but the connection to the weightlifting may be significant. Does anyone in your family have neuropathy? The weakness that you describe is worrisome and should be investigated. |
Thanks for your quick reply again, yes I agree I would like to be seen a lot sooner than I am, but with Christmas everything is closing up. I'm getting in on the 14th Jan and will hopefully get all the tests done then. I am trying to get an MRI before the neuro appointment (if he would ring back!). It just seems to have come on so quickly although I realise now I did have some symptom's throughout this year that I did not realise were neuro related.
I am probably clutching at straws but after my Physio asked about when I had the mirena (contraception coil) in and when symptoms started it I realised it was a month after. Since then I've read some links between the mirena insertion and neuropathy, but it is nothing proven. However I have decided to get it removed in 5 days time. Yes I am so anxious that it is a combination including autonomic, my physio managed to calm me down a bit and have since felt a lot more sane. Neuropathy doesn't run in my family. and I was drinking too much but not sure it would warrant neuropathy, but maybe. On my husbands suggestion I am trying to take it a day at a time and try to keep calm. But my mind has a tendency to run off thinking all kinds of horrible things. I am referring to it as my nightmare before Christmas. I really appreciate your replies. Keckie |
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