Thoughts from Pter on Suicide
 

"Our minds are quite manipulative particularly when cultivated by fear. Do not fear your suicidal thoughts. Do not be ashamed of them. Do not let them be a negative aspect of your being. Accept them..and post them here or talk openly about them to friends and family...

A suicidal thought is NOT initiated by the mind as a way to harm the person.
It is initiated by the mind as a misguided attempt to protect the person. By understanding its intent you will be able to redirect it with self esteem and self love in place...fear will not be able to stimulate the negative cascading psysiological affects that make so many of us tire to the point of accepting suicide as the solution."

~Pter

Wise words ... from a wise guy. It is good to read them again. Maybe they should be stickied?

Thanks Alffe :)

Peters' words regarding suicidal thoughts
 

I hate to sound ignorant here but who is Peter? :confused:

Who is Peter? LOL...well, you are asking someone who was blinded by his ability to "get it" and then share it. He was an old man...the best kind..who was suicidal his whole life but fought the demons and died of old age. He educated a whole bunch of us on OBT about learning to redirect those suicidal thoughts...about not letting our minds fool us into thinking that we could end our pain by killing ourselves. And he entertained the hell out of me.
I miss him BJ....I'm glad you asked. :D

I didn't mean to make you sad Alffe and I'm sorry. :( He sounds like he was a wise man. I've seen his name around here in a few places and thought maybe he was a famous person or wrote a book or something. I was going to ask where to buy it. :confused:

This is sort of what I was told when I was in the "hospital". A lot of people said I did it because I wanted attention. But the docs assured me that it wasn't so. I was crying out for help.

Thanks for posting this. It makes for a good reading.

I remember something else Pter recommended. To sit on your hands. He said, "your hands can't hurt you if you are sitting on them."

And he used to do this when he was really in battle with the Beast!

That's good advice Alffe and I've been sitting on my hands all week. How come I still hurt? How much heartache and rejection can one person take? How come I have this lonliness inside and this feeling of is anyone out there?

(((BJ)))You ARE going to hurt this holiday season...I just don't want you to hurt yourself. You are early in grieving your dear mother BJ....feel what ever it is you feel: fear, anger quilt, apathy....and hold yourself tight, rock while you're holding yourself. And I don't know who on earth is rejecting you....you have siblings ....did I remember that right?

Turn to others for support....here if you have no one in real life. Most importantly...remember to remember. Your tears will eventually lessen....but not this Holiday season.

Love, Alffe

Siblings? Oh yes, I have a brother who I’ve seen once in 10 years. He got married and took off and drifted away. The one time I did see him was at my dad’s funeral. He never even came to my mom’s because he said she always loved me more. Well yes he was right for once. She did love me more because I was the one who she called all hours of the night because she was having a bad asthma attack when my dad was working. She just wanted someone to be with her or sometimes take her to the ER. My brother was no where to be found. Another one who said he was “too busy”.

I left a message last week and asked if we could get together for the holidays. He never returned my call but yesterday I got a Christmas card in the mail from him. I was shocked when I saw it and I thought maybe things would be “okay” finally. In it was a picture of his two boys and a note saying they were going to Astoria, Queens to be with his wife’s family for the holidays and he was sorry and maybe another time. I certainly won’t be holding my breath waiting to hear from him again. He couldn't even call and tell me?

I'm sorry BJ....another brick wall. :( You know what helps me when I'm really down?....doing something for someone else. I've served breakfast Sat. mornings for years at the Rescue Mission and when you see how appreciative those people off the street are, it really lifts you up.

How about visiting at a nursing home? Reading or writing letters with the residents....you were such a blessing to your own mother I'm sure there are patients who would love some attention from a woman with empathy.

Just wracking my brain here trying to come up with an idea that might help you get thru the holiday. Warm hugs....stay in touch.

Wise words from Sue..Pter's daughter
 

Like you posted- the walls can be built both ways- "Pter" often posted messages here that made sense to others - even seemed to help some- yet when those same messages were extended to his family members years ago they were often met with the "wall'- Now his words make sense to me and I carry them with me knowing that a suicidal thought is just that - a thought that can be dealt with in various other ways besides a suicide attempt- I now know there can be various reasons one might have a tendency towards suicidal thoughts- and that it isn't just emotional or mental instability as it was once said to be- I also learned that we can set ourselves up in situations that make us think the act is justified- sometimes just to give a REASON for the thought- as he would say- it made an illogical thought logical- It took years to hear- and looking through strangers eyes to understand but I think I do now

reflecting upwards

you guys have no idea how frequently i read this.

Is anybody out there?
 

I know the feeling of lonliness inside and wondering if anybody is out there. I think they are, but you have to reach out, probably more than once and experience some rejection in the process. People in this chat forum seem to be out there for you and me.:grouphug: billie bluecat

More of Peters words....
 

The eyes of a parent of a child whose death occurred due to suicide are eyes I have always had great difficulty looking into. I have found little difference here in the Forum. Your posts were ones I had great difficulty reading and I rarely responded to them. Why?...because there is a very thin line between a negative or positive understanding of words. My straight to the core manner would be unproductive for a person whose inner core had so recently experienced devastation.

I believe your son's death was an accident. I do not believe for a moment, having been his age and having walked in his shoes, that he understood that his solution would allow him no chance for further solutions. It was an accident. It is not just okay to say your son died due to a shooting accident...it is correct. The momentary action of a gun disallowed him the recourse of reaction with thought.
I pray I haven't hurt you. PTer

Well, Alffe, it seems I can't post a link so you will have to copy and paste plus add all the pre-url jargon. Weird how out of the blue I felt the need to come here and leave this song for you. :confused: Hope all is well. Many :hug:s, Susan

It's not weird at all Sue....we have a "heart connection". Now if I can just learn what was edited out...:confused: Come back...you are missed and loved.
Tell me everything!! *grin

Hi Sue!

How are you? :hug:

Still "crazy" here. *grin And I really wish you'd come back.

Hugs for the room..especially our Koala. :grouphug:

To My Friend BJ
 

BJ, BJ - you have us, always. I have a brother just like you describe. Sometimes I think I deserve his lack of time for me - I was a teen when he was born and didn't have a lot of time for him then. But I always loved him. And now he's too busy for an occasional call, even when it's me doing the calling. And I lost my mother in recent years. I have obsessive thoughts about suicide, but no real intent since certain independent churches got hold of me. It was very traumatic, but now I fear death. However, I have learned that when pain gets bad enough, suicide is no longer out of the question. Isn't what we are really saying is that we want out of the painful situation, not that we want to die? Sometimes that does seem like it's the only way out, I will give you this. But know this. Neuro is all that I have for support. Dad would like to be supportive, but he's pretty sure that "getting out among people" would cure my depression, social anxiety, body dysmorphia, back disc problems and everything else. But Neuro - certainly you being a major player - is enough. I love it. PM me anytime you are sitting on your hands or getting sick from treatment, if you do. Use me, I'm not good for anything else, and I'd like to be good for something. And bless you for all the support you have given me! billie :hug:

Powerful Words
 

Thanks, I would have thought it was from the Bible, but if I understand right, a wise old man shared this wish us. I do wish that if there is more, it would be posted here so that I could keep it next to my bed, in my car, printed in Vinyl on the LR wall. (unlikely, but possible).

What happens when the pain becomes more than I can handle? I've handled it before. Why give yourself any room to speculate? Haven't I learned already I can handle the pain? Didn't God ask you to give Him all of my anxiety? Then why Julz do you speculate that there will come a time when can no longer handle it or that they won't make a medication that could cure AD? Isn't there a way to kill this nerve so it can no longer give me grief?

I am looking for peace. Peace that there will never come a time when you or I will take our own life. It is a sin. Is this pergatory, then? Probably so. Be patient while He helps someone who needs His healing more than you. My niece started calling me a "steel magnolia"... why would u ever want to leave those girls without the greatest aunt in the world? How do you think they would handle it? Maybe that's why in some cases it is a hereitary thing. Don't let it creep into our family who has been so blessed. Believe in Him.
Study His Words and try keeping and talk of it to yourself. Keep this wherever u need; but stop thinking about a time when no one will help u through the pain. STOP IT! You've come a long way already R u not exhausted yet? Didn't just the thought of suicide cause you to tire and sleep and awaken without pain? Just remember, your husband really loves you. He continues to tell me that he will change or go to therapy with him. Be well, b/c u r well. AD is just a signpost that gets in the way of the awesome view. But soon, I will get past it. And it will be an awesome view of life.
Finding Julz, u r on your way! God Be With You as He is with US. The almighty healer. You keep expecting a doctor, but he is an angel. Expect the miracle. Finding julz.:hug:

(((Susan)))

i miss pter. *sigh

Me too dear wish...but he left us so many life lessons. (((Wish))) I've missed you! :hug:

Alffe - can you share more with us about Pter? It has been so long ago ... anymore wise words, anything else about him? How did he learn so much? :hug:

Not Alffe, but heck, I resisted replying for a while.

He had insight, wish. He learned from living.

He did good, he did wrong, he loved, he hurt, he was loved, he was hurt and he made mistakes, but the thing he had was "INSIGHT".

He had grown to know himself and his thought processes and tried to help all of us by sharing that.

Just my thoughts... <sigh>

You have "nailed" him Lara. How I wish he had written that book!! :hug:

pter suicide
 

always pick up the phone, dont stay alone!

Alffe... I wish you would write your book.

There - I said it.

So, somewhere down the way... am I gonna say: "How I wish she had written that book!!" ????

I can't tell you how many times I think I should write a book with what I've learned here... and about the role it has played in my life...

yep... insight... its a gift to recognize it within yourself...

:sing: Addy

Lara :hug:
How I wish I could sit across the table from you again... a pot of tea between us... maybe some cookies...

We are pioneers of cyberspace... and the relationships and experiences we have lived are incredible.... we are lucky to have been invited ...
and... to have stayed.

Hold dear your memories of Pter :grouphug:

http://www.hns.org/LinkClick.aspx?fi...u8%3D&tabid=90

Excellent link...may have to put it "downstairs too".

I have found that suicide should never be mentioned to friends, at least not to any friends that I have. I don't really think I would ever do it, but as things progress and life has become so difficult and hope and peace seem to be no where in my life, I actually subconsciously picked where and how I would do it. It's the loneliness and isolation that is the worst.

I think you need some new friends. :hug: Welcome to the forum regigirl.

I don't see how it can be considered "misguided" in all situations. Again this is a subtle jab at suicide as a viable option for each of us that wants it. IMO suicide is the great gift of nature to man. When the pain is unrelenting and no viable solution presents then suicide is the gift of deliverance from unrelenting pain. And each person should be the decider for themselves what constitutes an unacceptable life. What right would I have deciding that for another person? I have none as that would turn others into my slaves in effect, doing my bidding rather than their own.

Lets check in with a great philosopher on the subject . A. Schopenhauer.

ON SUICIDE.



As far as I can see, it is only the followers of monotheistic, that is
of Jewish, religions that regard suicide as a crime. This is the more
striking as there is no forbiddance of it, or even positive disapproval
of it, to be found either in the New Testament or the Old; so that
teachers of religion have to base their disapprobation of suicide on
their own philosophical grounds; these, however, are so bad that they
try to compensate for the weakness of their arguments by strongly
expressing their abhorrence of the act--that is to say, by abusing it.
We are told that suicide is an act of the greatest cowardice, that it is
only possible to a madman, and other absurdities of a similar nature; or
they make use of the perfectly senseless expression that it is
"_wrong_," while it is perfectly clear that no one has such indisputable
right over anything in the world as over his own person and life.
Suicide, as has been said, is computed a crime, rendering
inevitable--especially in vulgar, bigoted England--an ignominious
burial and the confiscation of the property; this is why the jury almost
always bring in the verdict of insanity. Let one's own moral feelings
decide the matter for one. Compare the impression made upon one by the
news that a friend has committed a crime, say a murder, an act of
cruelty or deception, or theft, with the news that he has died a
voluntary death. Whilst news of the first kind will incite intense
indignation, the greatest displeasure, and a desire for punishment or
revenge, news of the second will move us to sorrow and compassion;
moreover, we will frequently have a feeling of admiration for his
courage rather than one of moral disapproval, which accompanies a wicked
act. Who has not had acquaintances, friends, relatives, who have
voluntarily left this world? And are we to think of them with horror as
criminals? _Nego ac pernego_! I am rather of the opinion that the clergy
should be challenged to state their authority for stamping--from the
pulpit or in their writings--as a _crime_ an act which has been
committed by many people honoured and loved by us, and refusing an
honourable burial to those who have of their own free will left the
world. They cannot produce any kind of Biblical authority, nay, they
have no philosophical arguments that are at all valid; and it is
_reasons_ that we want; mere empty phrases or words of abuse we cannot
accept. If the criminal law forbids suicide, that is not a reason that
holds good in the church; moreover, it is extremely ridiculous, for what
punishment can frighten those who seek death? When a man is punished for
trying to commit suicide, it is his clumsy failure that is punished.