NeuroTalk Support Groups - Supplements dosage

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Supplements dosage

I have some concerns regarding to the supplements I tsake.. Currently I am on the following sups:
1.- Vit b12
2.- Vit b6
3.- Folic acid
4.- Benfothiamine
5.- Lipoic acid
6.- Folic acid
7.- Fish oil
8.- Magnesium
9.- D chiro inositol (mainly for my problem wih PCOS)
10.- Calcium
11.- A bit of vit. D (which is included in the calcium supplement)
12. Zinc
13. Selenium

The truth is I don’t take these supplements on a daily basis, rather randomly and when I remember to take them. I have not been very constant anf have not probably gotten full benefit from them. So.. I am planning to take all these sups EVERYDAY. Could you help me out with the dosage?. Considering that my weight is around 110 pounds.

I am specially concerned about lipoic acid, ‘cause aside from neuropathy, I also suffer from hypothyroidism.

Do you think it’s a good idea to take these supplements every day??? Should I omit one of them or add any other??

Thank you

Monica

here are my thoughts:

Younger patients like you may not need really high doses of supplements yet. As we age, use of supplements atrophies and that is when they work best.

Also insulin resistance and diabetes is higher in Native Americans and Mexican patients.(in the US).
You can have insulin resistance if you are young, it is becoming more common (but I see that more often in African Americans).
Insulin resistance and sometimes diabetes comes with PCOS in females.

1.- Vit b12 --if you are low in this and are shown by testing, then starting at 1mg (1000mcg) daily is a good start. If you do not have testing you can still try it, and if after several months you see no improvement you can assume you don't need it.

2.- Vit b6--this works with B12, and maximum doses should not go over 50mg/day for most people.

3.- Folic acid--800mcg is typical dose. Works well with B6 and B12. US foods are fortified now with folic acid, but I don't know what you have in Mexico

4.- Benfothiamine--this is improved thiamine B1, helpful for people who drink alcohol or have problems with certain enzyme actions , the dehydrogenases. 150mg-300mg per day

5.- Lipoic acid--evidence for thyroid effects is not clear or definite. Use the new R-lipoic in lower doses 50 to 100mg per day instead of the high alpha doses.

6.- Folic acid (duplicate)

7.- Fish oil--typically 1 to 3 caps of regular fish oil are usually enough for most people

8.- Magnesium--typically 200mg of elemental a day to supplement what you eat to give the 380-400mg elemental RDA

9.- D chiro inositol (mainly for my problem wih PCOS)--follow the directions on the bottle of the new product you purchased. A 60ct bottle suggests 2 a day. You can start at one a day and see if you get results to save $$. Chiro is new, more potent than myo-inositol and should not need really high doses.

10.- Calcium--If you don't eat any foods with calcium higher doses are needed. Range is 500mg-1500 a day.

11.- A bit of vit. D (which is included in the calcium supplement)--the amount in a mixture of calcium is usually low. New recommendations are for up to 2000 IU/day. The more D you take the less calcium you need because it enhances calcium absorption. Supplements sold separately of D3 allow for dose changes. You can be tested for this so you will know exactly what you need.

12. Zinc-- zinc and selenium are needed for proper thyroid functions. Vegetarians need more than others. Signs of low zinc are acne and increased infections. 30mg of OptiZinc works well for most people who may be low in this mineral. Your lifestyle dictates your need for this. You can be tested for this, to see if you are low.

13. Selenium-- same with this. Do not go over 100mcg/day, as high doses of selenium are showing a connection to diabetes in some people. Selenium and zinc are basically for people with lifestyle dietary issues. They are less critical for neuropathy.

Mrs D. Thank you for your help. I will keep posted all the changes i notice, specially those related to the d chiro. It was very expensive i hope it is worth it. Thank you!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monica de Lara (Post 368355)

Mrs D. Thank you for your help. I will keep posted all the changes i notice, specially those related to the d chiro. It was very expensive i hope it is worth it. Thank you!!

id like to add one more: taurine

I am not sure...

That taurine is needed for the new lower dose chiro inositol.

The myoinositol is taken in much higher doses, and does have
a suggestion to use taurine with it.

Something to do with competing for transport in the body.
The smaller doses of chiro might not compete so heavily.
But I don't know for sure.

I only answered the question. I did not offer OTHER advice,
because it was not asked for at this time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrsd (Post 373680)

well would u like to answer my question? or do u want me to go outta my way and post a seperate question in a seperate topic?

let me rephrase the question instead, what is the normal dosage for taurine? how much can you take while still being safe? i heard you can take up to 2-3 grams a day. (note:: not milligrams) They usually come in 500 mg capsules.

some taurine info

http://www.healthy.net/scr/article.asp?ID=1971

[Taurine is an inhibitory neurotransmitter, and its main use has been to help treat epilepsy and other excitable brain states, where it functions as a mild sedative. Research shows low taurine levels at seizure sites and its anti-convulsant effect comes from its ability to stabilize nerve cell membranes, which prevents the erratic firing of nerve cells.
Doses for this effect are 500 mg. three times daily.

Overall, the dosage used may range from 500 mg. to 5–6 grams, with the higher amounts needed for the cardiovascular problems and possibly epilepsy. Possible symptoms of toxicity from taurine supplementation include diarrhea and peptic ulcers.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruegger84 (Post 374070)

What are you trying to accomplish with taurine? That would determine how much to use.

Also I see in your signature you are using Licorice extract?
Why are you using that? Over time this can be harmful, affect potassium levels and increase blood pressure. The DGL version of licorice has the offending compounds removed and is much safer. Some people use licorice for ulcers. I would strongly suggest the DGL version if that is what you are after.

BTW also, readers here should understand that Monica has a long history of posting here on PN, and she is asking her questions about HER PN issues. That is what those doses refer to.
They may not be appropriate or necessary for others with other problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrsd (Post 374425)

#1: I'm using the taurine for generalized anxiety, and anxiety manifested in muscle spasms, restlessness. It seems to calm me down, so I think I'll go by the 500mg 3 times a day or 1,500 mg a day. its good warding off side effects of anti-depressants.

of course I'm using the DGL version, I;m basically using it in place instead of using nexium or prilosec for heartburn. it's working pretty well, cuz sometimes when you take anti-depressants you get this heartburn. you know I'm a safety first person right Mrs D?? obv i would go with the DGL. i don't need another problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruegger84 (Post 374781)

Good... DGL can be very effective...and it is much much safer.

I have answered you on the other thread.
Taurine is not a harmful substance. At the rate you are using it, I would not expect to see any harm.
This is the PDR reference for it, designed for doctors:
http://www.pdrhealth.com/drugs/altme...&contentId=609

Thank you for the info about Taurine, i think i am going to add it to my list of supplements. I am interested in the post Jo55 made, do you think that taurine could also have an effect on neuropathy (because it stabilizes nerve cell membranes?

Quote:

J Biol Regul Homeost Agents. 2007;21(3-4):63-77.Links
Taurine-diabetes interaction: from involvement to protection.
Kim SJ, Ramesh C, Gupta H, Lee W.

Department of Pharmacology, Metabolic Diseases Research Laboratory, School of Dentistry, Kyung Hee University, Seoul, Korea. kimsj@khu.ac.kr

Taurine is a sulfur amino acid (2-amino ethane sulfonic acid) and has been claimed for a number of beneficial actions ranging from anti-epilepsy to anti-hypertension. Taurine in diabetes has an age old story; taurine is involved in the development and protection of insulin apparatus. Taurine and insulin both have mutual stimulating actions with hypoglycemic properties. On the clinical front, taurine supplementation has an acceptable beneficial effect in platelet aggregation and, to name few more, in neuropathy, cardiomyopathy, and nephropathy to retinopathy. Recent studies have provided a role for taurine in fetal development and in blocking the transfer of diabetes from diabetic mother to offspring. A number of mechanisms for the actions of taurine have been advocated, from osmoregulation to anti-oxidation. Though sulfonylurea and recently introduced thiazolidinediones are effective, however they are not free from complications, thus there is a need to design new therapeutics. As taurine is also a sulfonyl derivative, it will be of great interest to develop taurine analogues as an alternative therapy. Considering the great involvement of taurine in diabetes, this review may provide a holistic view of taurine in diabetes and in its prevention in this century.
PMID: 18261258 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

and this: I have been using taurine for the bile salt reason, and for pre-diabetes issues:

Quote:

Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care. 2006 Nov;9(6):728-33.Click here to read Links
Is taurine a functional nutrient?
Bouckenooghe T, Remacle C, Reusens B.

Laboratoire de Biologie Cellulaire, Institut des Sciences de la Vie, Université Catholique de Louvain, Bâtiment Carnoy Place, Croix du Sud 5, B-1348 Louvain-la-Neuve, Belgium.

PURPOSE OF REVIEW: Taurine, a free amino acid, is found in millimolar concentrations in most mammalian tissues. Mammals are able to synthesize taurine endogenously, but some species such as humans are more dependent on dietary sources of taurine. A growing body of evidence suggests that taurine plays a preponderant role in many physiological processes, which will be summarized in this review. RECENT FINDINGS: Evidence for the requirement of taurine in the human diet has been obtained in many studies involving animal models and a few clinical trials. Recent and past studies suggested that taurine might be a pertinent candidate for use as a nutritional supplement to protect against oxidative stress, neurodegenerative diseases or atherosclerosis. Taurine has demonstrated promising actions in vitro, and as a result clinical trials have begun to investigate its effects on various diseases. SUMMARY: Taurine appears to have multiple functions and plays an important role in many physiological processes, such as osmoregulation, immunomodulation and bile salt formation. Taurine analogues/derivatives have recently been reported to have a marked activity on various disorders. Taken together, these observations actualize the old story of taurine.
PMID: 17053427 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE

It is listed here as a "potential" aid:

Quote:

Altern Med Rev. 2006 Dec;11(4):294-329.Click here to read Links
Peripheral neuropathy: pathogenic mechanisms and alternative therapies.
Head KA.

Thorne Research, Inc., PO Box 25, Dover, ID 83825, USA. kathih@thorne.com

Peripheral neuropathy (PN), associated with diabetes, neurotoxic chemotherapy, human immunodeficiency virus (HIV)/antiretroviral drugs, alcoholism, nutrient deficiencies, heavy metal toxicity, and other etiologies, results in significant morbidity. Conventional pain medications primarily mask symptoms and have significant side effects and addiction profiles. However, a widening body of research indicates alternative medicine may offer significant benefit to this patient population. Alpha-lipoic acid, acetyl-L-carnitine, benfotiamine, methylcobalamin, and topical capsaicin are among the most well-researched alternative options for the treatment of PN. Other potential nutrient or botanical therapies include vitamin E, glutathione, folate, pyridoxine, biotin, myo-inositol, omega-3 and -6 fatty acids, L-arginine, L-glutamine, taurine, N-acetylcysteine, zinc, magnesium, chromium, and St. John's wort. In the realm of physical medicine, acupuncture, magnetic therapy, and yoga have been found to provide benefit. New cutting-edge conventional therapies, including dual-action peptides, may also hold promise.
PMID: 17176168 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Taurine is thought to be depleted in diabetics, which is different from non-diabetics. This article discusses taurine in connection with that depletion:

Quote:

Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2005 Jan;288(1):E29-36.Click here to read Links
Taurine replacement attenuates hyperalgesia and abnormal calcium signaling in sensory neurons of STZ-D rats.
Li F, Obrosova IG, Abatan O, Tian D, Larkin D, Stuenkel EL, Stevens MJ.

Department of Internal Medicine, Michigan Diabetes Research and Training Center, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor Veterans Administration Hospitals, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA.

The etiology of painful diabetic neuropathy is poorly understood, but may result from neuronal hyperexcitability secondary to alterations of Ca2+ signaling in sensory neurons. The naturally occurring amino acid taurine functions as an osmolyte, antioxidant, Ca2+ modulator, inhibitory neurotransmitter, and analgesic such that its depletion in diabetes may predispose one to neuronal hyperexcitability and pain. This study reports the effects of taurine replacement on hyperalgesia and sensory neuron Ca2+ homeostasis in streptozotocin-diabetic (STZ-D) rats. Nondiabetic and STZ-D rats were treated with a 2% taurine-supplemented diet for 6-12 wk. Thermal hyperalgesia and mechanical allodynia were determined by measuring hindpaw withdrawal latency to radiant heat and the withdrawal threshold to the von Frey anesthesiometer. Intracellular Ca2+ signaling was explored in neurons from L4-L6 dorsal root ganglia (DRG), using fura 2 fluorescence. Taurine replacement of diabetic rats attenuated deficits of nerve conduction and prevented reductions of mechanical and thermal withdrawal threshold and latency, respectively. In small DRG sensory neurons from diabetic rats, recovery of intracellular Ca2+ concentration ([Ca2+]i) in response to KCl was slowed and 73% corrected by taurine. The amplitudes of caffeine and ATP-induced [Ca2+]i transients were decreased by 47 and 27% (P < 0.05), respectively, in diabetic rat DRG sensory neurons and corrected by 74 and 93% (P < 0.05), respectively, by taurine replacement. These data indicate that taurine is important in the regulation of neuronal Ca2+ signaling and that taurine deficiency may predispose one to nerve hyperexcitability and pain, complicating diabetes.
PMID: 15585600 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

So dosing and length of time to use are not available yet.

I myself use 1000mg/day. I have not noticed any change in my pain levels from it. But it has helped my gall bladder symptoms (sluggish but no stones) tremendously.
So I don't think it can hurt you.

Please keep us up to date, as well, Monica.

Just a tiny question. The other day my dad told me his doctor had told him one should not be taking so many supplements. According to him, kidney has a hard time metabolizing them. In my opinion, and this is merely the opinion of someone who relies on common sense, supplements are like food, just with bigger concentrations of nutrients. So if kidney had a hard time with them, it would also have a hard time with food. So in my opinion, taking supplements is inocous if you take them at right doses, and if they are wáter soluble. Am i right?

For people with reduced renal clearance, then taking ANYTHING including drugs becomes problematic for clearance.

For example, some drugs are cleared more slowly in the elderly.
Benzodiazepines are one example (Valium/Xanax etc).

When people have renal clearance problems drugs are eliminated more slowly. Some drugs are entirely cleared thru the kidneys and do not go thru liver metabolism. Examples are
Neurontin, Lyrica, Lisinopril.
Smaller doses are then needed.

Minerals like magnesium can build up in the blood when kidney damage is present.

But if the creatinine serum levels are in normal range, it doesn't matter if your take supplements. Kidneys do not metabolize anything. They eliminate substances, that are metabolized by the liver.

I see people taking up to 20 sophisicated drugs a day! Major polypharmacy. Do those same doctors consider that a risk to the kidneys? Nope.

There are drugs that DAMAGE the kidneys:
http://kidneyinthenews.wordpress.com...vil-nuprinetc/
Do doctors stop prescribing them? NOPE.
Drugs used in heart surgery, and some MRI dyes have damaged kidneys.

Vitamins and minerals in kidney disease:
http://www.kidney.org/atoz/atozItem.cfm?id=117

Massive use of acidic supplements like Vit C will change the pH of the urine and
crystalize out some substances...like uric acid (which is excreted daily) and oxalate.
This may lead to kidney stones. People prone to calcium or uric acid stones are often
given an alkaline agent called BiCitra to keep that from happening.
People who make too much uric acid due to metabolic issues, may develop damaged
kidneys as a result (with no extra Vit C necessary).

Thank you Mrs D. I kind of knew metabolize was not the right word for that. I just wanted to make sure. DOctor should be better educated!