NeuroTalk Support Groups - saw pdoc -- feel low. Question about benzos.

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saw pdoc -- feel low. Question about benzos.

Hi,

Apparently the pdoc listened for 5 minutes. Or maybe I was feeling too low to "fake" it today.

He said I should not feel hung over from the Klonopin in the morning after taking it all these years. I'm not sure if he is right.
Does a person get over the hungover feeling from benzos?.

I always feel tired and have brain fog. I always feel like I could use a good nap.

I also feel depressed most of the time.
Actually, I think it is part of the Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, but most docs here don't accept that dx so I have not mentioned that since the first session with him years ago.
Mari

a 5 minute visit is not enough time for crying out loud!:mad:

I certainly believe that you can have a hung over feeling from any psychotropic med.
Wonder if you took them earlier if they would still work to help you sleep.
I have heard that after long use they can cause rebound anxiety. I am going to take the least dose of klonipin that I can get by to sleep.
have been taking .5 but will try .25 tonight.
Mari, I don't think you need to take the klonipin during the day unless you have too much anxiety.
What do you think?
bizi

Quote:

Duration of action
Benzodiazepines are commonly divided into three groups by their half-lives: Short-acting compounds have a half-life of less than 12 hours, and have few residual effects if taken before bedtime, but rebound insomnia may occur and they might cause wake-time anxiety. Intermediate-acting compounds have a half-life of 12–24 hours, may have residual effects in the first half of the day. Rebound insomnia however is more common upon discontinuation of short-acting benzodiazepines. Daytime withdrawal symptoms are also a problem with prolonged usage of short-acting benzodiazepines, including daytime anxiety. Long-acting compounds have a half-life greater than 24 hours.[12][13] Strong sedative effects typically persist throughout the next day if long-acting preparations are used for insomnia. Accumulation of the compounds in the body may occur. The elimination half-life may greatly vary between individuals, especially the elderly. Shorter-acting compounds are usually best for their hypnotic effects, whereas longer-acting compounds are usually better for their anxiolytic effects. Benzodiazepines with shorter half-lives tend to be able to produce tolerance and addiction quicker, as the drug does not last in the system for as long, with resultant interdose withdrawal phenomenon and next-dose craving. Although short-acting drugs are more commonly prescribed for insomnia, there are exceptions to the rules, such as alprazolam being prescribed as an anxiolytic more than a hypnotic, despite possessing a short half-life.

I think the xanax is the short acting benzo best used simply for sleep.

Quote:

Rebound insomnia is insomnia that occurs following discontinuation of sedative substances taken to relieve primary insomnia. Regular use of these substances can cause a person to become dependent on its effects in order to fall asleep through the process of classical conditioning. Therefore, when a person has stopped taking the medication and is 'rebounding' from its effects, he or she may experience insomnia as a symptom of withdrawal. Occasionally, this insomnia may actually be worse than the insomnia the drug was intended to treat.[1]
Common medicines known to cause this problem are Lunesta and Ambien, which are prescribed to people having difficulties falling or staying asleep. This phenomenon can also occur with regular use of anxiolytic drugs, such as benzodiazepines.

This is what happened to me.

I am ging to try to not take the klonipin evert night.maybe every other night...will see.
bizi

Hi,

I got off the Xanax a few years ago.

I don't take Klonopin for sleep. I can sleep at any time of day.
I cannot sleep at night. The klonopin is for an anxiety problem.
I am scared to death to go to sleep at night.
The Klonopin kind of dulls that fear a little.

Mari

Quote:

Originally Posted by bizi (Post 371168)

lol Sorry for not being clear.
I was there longer than five minutes.
Usually he talks.
Today he took my blood pressure (he does neuro stuff too -- not just psych).
And he asked me some questions.
He is also concerned that over the years I have gained weight.

I take 2.5 Klononpin at night an hour or two before bed -- nothing during the day.
I can try taking it earlier. It is logical to do that.

I hate taking the klonopin because I hate going to bed. I'm afraid. We did not talk about the fear. I'm tired of talking about to these people. They haven't helped much yet -- and it has been a look freaking time that I have been in treatment.

Mari

Quote:

Originally Posted by bizi (Post 371168)

. . .
I have heard that after long use they can cause rebound anxiety. I am going to take the least dose of klonipin that I can get by to sleep.
have been taking .5 but will try .25 tonight.
. . . i

Bizi,
I know that you have begun another round of studying how Klonopin will work for you.

I hope it helps you.
And I hope it helps you at low doses.

Mari

Quote:

We did not talk about the fear. I'm tired of talking about to these people. They haven't helped much yet -- and it has been a look freaking time that I have been in treatment.

When I went in to get the klonopin refill prescription I mentioned how terrified I was to be alone at night (when hubby was out of town and the kids slept at their grandmas for the night) and he actually had the nerve to look me dead in the face and say "just tell yourself you are going to go to sleep and do it."

I wanted to slap him.

He knows fully well I have never been able to sleep - even as a YOUNG child. And he also knows that I experience irriational fear when I am completely alone in a house and come close to panic..... ALSO for as long as I can remember.

I just smiled at him and told him "the next time I have diarreha I'll just tell myself I don't and skip the pepto too....."

Just do it.......:mad:

Doctors irritate me sometimes.

P.S. if i take any more than .5 of the klonipin I wake up feeling like i got hit full force by a mactruck.

how awful bobbi...makes me just shake my head...not only do we still have the general public not understanding and all of the stigma attached to our meds...there are still doctors who don't get it and they are the ones who are supposed to be on our side!
ugh!:thud:

Bobi
can you switch doctors? I liked your response to him!
what a jerk
Bobby

Mari
I am so sorry you are not feeling well. Are you going through a cycle? Can you tell? I don't have hangovers from klonopin. I am only supposed to take two m a day but sometimes I take four. Last night I took two extra but still couldn't sleep. My mind just wouldn't shut down.
Do you have dreams? Do you have recurrent dreams? You always seem to be burdened by your family and left in a helpless situation. I remember your writing that you started taking care of them when you were seventeen months old. You also wrote that you got a lot from your students but you are in a way also taking care of them. Your caretaking seems still seems to be an overwhelming part of your life. I wonder if that has anything to do with your sleep "phobia" at night. Is it your private time or do you feel you have to be on alert?
just rambling
Bobby

Quote:

Originally Posted by mymorgy (Post 371392)

Bobby,
I'm feeling ok at the moment. But I slept a lot today and then saw a friend this evening.

I remember talking for my brother who is is about 17 month younger than me. So maybe I was counting wrong. It was more like he was walking and I was talking for him. That would mean that I was more likely 2.5+ years old. I used to follow him around the house and make sure he was safe. I also used to let my mother know when he needed something (I don't know how I knew what he needed. ) This is the same brother (I have two) who called me about drinking recently. I guess he and I are used to knowing too much about each other. The call was unusual because most of the time, he does not want to hear what I think about his situation. . . and who can blame him really.

Probably I handled that phone call all wrong and should have just told him to go find a psychiatrist and a mental health-type support group or therapist and to leave me out of it.

I do have dreams but I have learned to forget them by the time I get out of bed. Before I was medicated, the dreams were disturbing.

A big part of my teaching involves caretaking, as you say. But I have learned to set boundaries and to work with the students in ways that are healthy -- more or less.
So this is hard to explain. But I have been thinking about it since you posted it. I think that the teaching is good for me -- it involves other people and I work with them and help them. Most of the time, I keep things businesslike.
This is good for me -- to work with people without becoming involved in their stuff.

RE Sleep:
The current tdoc did help me figure out that at least part of the sleep issue is related to nurturing others more than myself.
Also, she said that I do feel the need to be alert and to protect myself.
She gave me a few little tools to use.
I suppose she and I have a long way to go but I only see her in the summers and twice around Christmas / New Years.
She is expensive at 100.00 a visit out of pocket. And hubby thinks insurance pays.

Mari

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mari (Post 372680)

A big part of my teaching involves caretaking, as you say. But I have learned to set boundaries and to work with the students in ways that are healthy -- more or less.
So this is hard to explain. But I have been thinking about it since you posted it. I think that the teaching is good for me -- it involves other people and I work with them and help them. Most of the time, I keep things businesslike.
This is good for me -- to work with people without becoming involved in their stuff.

Mari

I bet you are a great teacher.:)
bizi
ps did your father have you edit his work? How did that go?

Dear Mari:
Its ironic that you are a teacher! Before I knew that your background was in education I remember thinking on BT about how great a teacher you would make and wishing my son could have one with your experiences and knowledge!
The kids are lucky as heck to have you!