Bipolar Newbie
 

Hello Im glad I found this site. My son is 9 years old. He was diagnosed ADHD/ODD back in 2005. He was just recently diagnosed Bipolar. He is taking Vyvannse 50mg and Risperidal .5mg twice daily. He has been a handful. We have been going through this since the end of 2004 trying to figure things out and I think I am finally understanding why we haven't been able to help him. He is very moody. You never know which kid your going to get moment by moment. I guess that is called rapid cycling. He is very violent towards everyone specially his 4 year old sister. He has busted his fathers lip open. And one time I had to pin him to the ground so he couldn't hurt anyone or himself and he tried to bite and head butt me the entire time. At that point I realized how strong my little boy really was. But Anthony doesn't seem like some of the other kids that I have read about on these posts. He doesn't seem like he is sorry when this happens. I think he is actually glad that he made us so upset and hurt. Maybe that is the ODD part of it all. I don't know where the ODD stops and the Bipolar begins. He hates to lose if I try to spend time with him and play things and he loses Im either a cheater or an idiot and he just blows up in a rage. His school work is good no problems at school at the moment. Before he would overflow toilets and hang on door stalls but this year its not bad. He won't participate with talking at the couclers appts. So Im just kinda lost right now. He had a mri and a emg done. We have an attorney who is doing an appeal for us for ssi. And I heard there should be special circumstances for him at school. I need to check out the link that was posted. Any how thanks for listening. chreey

Hi,
1) Get a copy of this book:
The Bipolar Child: The Definitive and Reassuring Guide to Childhood's Most Misunderstood Disorder -- Third Edition (Paperback)
by Demitri Papolos and Janice Papolos


2) Also look at this site for a sample IEP to give you an idea of what you can do at his school to help him.

http://www.bipolarchild.com/IEP/

3) Also google the "Child and Adolescent Bipolar Foundation" to find lots of parents of bipolar children. Here is a list of symptoms from that site:

The Vyvanse does not make sense to me if he is still raging.
Are you seeing a psychiatrist who specializes in children?

Mari

Thanks for the info. He is seeing a child psyciatrist. She continues to give the vyvannsse for the adhd along with the risperidal to help stabalize his mood. Since she increased the risperidol his mood has gotten better there have only been a few issues. But it has also been such a short time between Im not sure if it is indeed the medication helping or not. It is just rough since my four year old sees my son screaming and crying and acting out when he doesn't get his way or is in one of his rages. She thinks that is the proper way to react to things. Since one child already has it whats the chances of my other two children having it or ending up with it? Thanks chreey

My 16 yr old just had to be taken off of the Vyvanse after being on it for a short time because it made him angry and violent, foul language, depressed. Right now he is on nothing for his ADHD until we make sure his mood evens out.

You sound like you have it far rougher than I do. My son is not really violent or angry unless he perceives being attacked or if he doesn't get his way. As Mari said make sure that the psych doc is a pediatric psychiatrist.

Hi,

From my understand of reading what is available on-line, a person has a 10% chance of getting bipolar is she or he has a sibling with bipolar.

But apparently this can vary from family to family based on other factors as well, like age of onset.


http://www.mddaboston.org/HTML/lect020900.html





M.

Hi, I wanted to make a statement on the IEP part of this issue.

Since he isn't having problems at school at present. There is a good chance
the school will not want to put one in place. But because of the medication
and the diagnosis's he has. THey can and should at least put a 504 plan
in place. This would level the playing field by putting some things in place
so that if he starts to have problems they can be addressed.

Both bipolar, or emotional issues, and ADHD can be addressed in either
a IEP or a 504 plan.

Donna

The school doesnt want to do a iep. They didn't even want to update his psych eval. for the attorney. They said he showed no signs of a learning disability from his previous one when he was 4 years old and Isteps were good. I did go out and get the bipolar child book. It is very helpful. He goes back Oct 2nd probably going to have to up the risperidal. He was doing ok for a while then ever since friday he is very irritable again and being mean to sister. The doc wants to get mood under control so the vyvannse will work.

You need to look into getting him a section 504 plan. This is different from an IEP (and an IEP can still be obtained should it ever become necessary.) A 504 plan will level the playing field for you son and give him safeguards and protection while in school. A 504 covers both mental, physical, and emotional disabilities. They are not based on grades or performance in school like an IEP is.

Here is some 504 information. Please feel free to ask if you would like more information!

Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 was passed by congress in 1973. Regulations implementing the statute became effective in 1977. For many years school districts perceived its main obligation as ensuring physical access to public buildings (i.e., ramps were installed, curbs were cut, elevators were added to multi-level buildings, rest room stalls were enlarged,
etc.). Schools were at the same time committed to compliance with special education regulations now referred to as the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act - (IDEA). With passage of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, Congress required that school districts make their programs and activities
accessible and usable to all individuals with disabilities. Within the last several years, the Office for Civil Rights (OCR) has become active in assisting school districts in further defining “access.” The definition of access means more than physical access; a child may require special accommodations such as modified assignments in order to benefit from their education.

HOW DOES SECTION 504 DEFINE
“APPROPRIATE EDUCATION”?
A free appropriate education is one provided by the public elementary or secondary school which includes general or special education and related aids and services that
(1) are designed to meet the individual educational needs of a person
with a disability as adequately as the needs of a non-disabled person are met, and
(2) are based upon adherence to evaluation, placement, and procedural safeguard requirements.

HOW DOES SECTION 504 DEFINE “DISABILITY”?
Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 protects persons from discrimination based upon their disability status. A person is disabled within the definition of Section 504 if he or she:

ELIGIBILITY FOR 504 SERVICES
• has a mental or physical impairment which limits one or more of a person's major life activities; The impairment must impact the child’s education.
“Major life activities” include functions such as caring for one's self, performing manual tasks, walking, seeing, hearing, speaking, breathing, learning, and working.

Thanks for info. Any info that can be given is very appriciated. Being so knew at all this I don't know if Im coming or going. Im just glad I have a diagnosis and know why I feel this way. My son's an I's relationship has been severely damaged by all of this. I love him and want to help him but it is just hard to feel close to him most if the time. Are relationship is getting better I wish I could say the same between him and his father. But his father is immature and in denial and doesn't even ask about doc appts or tests because he doesn't believe Anthony has ADHD/ODD or Bipolar. I don't know what he thinks I guess he just thinks he is a brat. Sometimes I think my husband has one if not both of these diagnosis. I know Im depressed have been for long time. Im very stressed. I went to a couple of different docs and all they would give me is antidepressents and they don't work. They wouldn't give me zanax or anything because Im so young I guess. Im 26 years old now this was last year. I have been on paxil,zoloft,effexor,prozac, and took trazadone for awhile for insomnia. Anthonys psyciatrist said that since these meds didn't work that maybe I had a mood disorder. But she couldn't say cause she wasn't my doc and hadn't evaluated me. She did say she was concerned for me and my 4 year old daughter since she was going through what the entire family was going through. chreey

Chreey

Please go see your family doctor. Talk about the issues with Anthony, the
stress that is brought on by this and even about his fathers denial and
how this leaves you to do all the work. And taking on all the problems.

I believe like your son's counselor you need to try a medication specifically
for anxiety. But you need to work on this with your family doctor.

There are some specific medications better for anxiety. And also mood
problems. I take cymbalta, for anxeity and for pain issues I have. Its
doing me lots of good also. But there are others too.

donna

Yeah Im going to have to check into getting on some kind of medication. It might have to be a little later down the road though. Because Im breastfeeding my 7month old. Sure the doc wouldn't approve antidepressant while breastfeeding. They are so picky on me even taken motrin. The psyciatrist told me not to worry about trying to convince my husband about Anthonys diagnosis. She told me to leave that job up to her. I told my husband doctor dee dee wanted to meet him. And he asked me who's that? I was like HELLO Anthonys psyciatrist. I had already made the appt and he agreed to go. I think only because the apt is early enough he knew that he would get to go hunting afterwards. Sometimes I don't blame him for being in denial. Sometimes still Im in denial. I've been reading the bipolar child book. And the stories in there the children seem like they are sorry for there behavior afterwards. And Anthony just doesn't seem like he cares. He seems like he is glad he has hurt people. And I think he uses his diagnosis as a crux and excuse to be bad. Im not sure if that is possible to be that manipulative at 9. But most of his rages come from just a authority issue and being irritated by his sister. I guess its normal to feel one way about it one day and feel different about it the next. chreey

Chreey

You hit it on the nose. Its the fact its different each day. Also he is
at the age that its hard to know what to think.

You need to remember also he is used to having been told he is doing
something bad. So maybe he thinks he is bad. So just give it time,
and keep working with him, hubby and the therapist.

Things will look up.

Donna

Well I got anthonys records for the ssi. His intake eval. said under emotional status Intermitted Explosive Disoder. I know only A little about that. Doc didn't mention anything about that in her diagnosis. Is this a part of bipolar? Poor kid last couple days has went from manic to irritated. Thursday night we came back from taekwondo and his dad hand his hands full and got ticked at Anthony because he didn't help carry stuff even though Anthony was holding door open. Anthony started crying saying at least he did something so I had to calm him down and try to fix that. But its no wonder he thinks he can't do anything right:( He is going to stay the night with his cousins this weekend he is usually good there. I just have to worry about him getting his meds on time. chreey

Awe, the intermittent explosive disorder explains lots of the things you
aren't understanding.

Its also very much possible that Anthony isn't getting enough medication
to control this part of the problem, But this is just a mom who's son has
this disorder's opinion.

This disorder means, he will explode for no reason, but have no idea why.
He probably will hide this fact, by acting like he knows exactly why he did.
It also is very much possible that he just goes off and needs to sleep
off the explosion. And will then be fine.

My oldest who is now 26 has this disorder, it took us 16 years to get this
diagnosis. But he had been having problems since he was about 6.
The thing was we had conduct disorder, and oppositional defiant disorder
too before we found out what it really was. He also had been stealing,
trying drugs, and trying to somewhat I think self medicate himself.

Luckily he had a mom working hard to find a solution, who didn't stop.
Just like you are doing now. Learn all you can about this disorder.

And remember he needs to learn to get through the exlosive part of
the situation, and its hard. So keep working with him on this.

Its hard for others to understand, but there is hope.

Donna

What I don't understand and I guess I will have to ask the psyciatrist about this. Is why it says that he has that on the intake evaluation from the psycologist but the psyciatrist didn't put that as a diagnosis or say anything about it. But I think that is why Im so confused at times. Maybe he isn't even ultra rapid cycling who knows. Its like hmm he does things and says things that he shouldn't be doing where does this fit in the ADHD the Bipolar, the ODD or the Intermitted Explosive Disorder. I don't know where one diagnosis begins and the other ends. Im going to be asking the psyciatrist what to do next as far as councling. Because I was talking to the councler the other day and she didn't know what to say about everything. All she could tell me was that with the discipline to be as consisted as possible. So we may be getting a knew councler. It is terrible that families have to deal with this. But Im glad there are people out there that understand what we are going through. My uncle has three children also and he just keeps telling me you have to talk to him and treat him like an equal and compromise. And these things usually don't work with a bipolar child and he just doesn't understand that. Is intermitted explosive disorder usally comorbid with bipolar or adhd/Odd? Did your son usually feel remorse over bad things that he had done or said? Thanks chreey

Honestly they have no memory that they did it. Its hard to explain.

But at the time, they don't remember. So they can't be remorseful.

But they do kind of remember later and sometimes they do feel
guilty, but then that too is not something right. Because they
can't help that it happened.

You need to look up intermittent explosive disorder here on
the web so you can understand it.

Donna

Hmm I guess this makes sense. That is are biggest problem with him he is viloent and screams at everyone. So I guess maybe the bipolar is just him being irratable that leads into the explosive behavior. I don't know:confused: chreey

Kids will cycle like 100+ times in a day. It took us a long time to figure out that my son wasn't just explosively angry all the time because it felt that way. Once we started him on the zyprexa at 6 he was finally able to sleep, and we were finally able to see the different moods he would experience instead of just this fireball of anger all the time.

have you joined the message boards at bpkids.org? They really gave me a lot of information when we first started this journey. And never be afraid to ask for more clarification from the doctors. If something isn't working, tell them that! And if you just don't understand the situation all that well, don't leave the office or hang up the phone until you have gotten all your answers.

Keep a notebook with you. Write down any observations and/or questions that come up. Then take the notebook to the doctor and go over everything in it. Ask those same questions on the message boards. See if there are parental support groups in your area and go! (I could also look up the groups in your area if you would like me to. We have a database at work.)

Its overwhelming and lonely. Ive been there. Things will eventually improve. You do need a support team though. I really hope you could find some groups or org's to attend. It makes a world of difference. (alot of the time they have respite care providers doing daycare during the meetings as well.)

I will have to look into the local support groups thanks. If I don't have any luck I will get back to you. Its just so hard to believe. They say he has this this and this and then you read he has something else too. Its hard to swallow and believe that all this could be going on with a little child. Its know wonder my husband doesn't except it since he hasn't been going to the apts. with us. chreey

Well heres the update. Anthony does not have the intermitted explosive disorder. The reason it was on the intake papers is because she originally when he first came in thought that was what it was. But she ruled it out already. So I guess we are just dealing with a lot of the violent issues from the bipolar because of the irritability. She changed his meds to abilify because he was having hand tremors on the risperidol. We are going to try him at an equal dose of the .5mg of risperidol and see if the knew meds help if not we will be upping it in two weeks. She is also going to be talking to the councler because I told her I didn't think that the councler had a clue. chreey

Hi,
This sounds like progress -- you got clarification on the diagnoses and you got a med change with a contingency plan
And good for you for asking the pdoc to talk to the counselor.

Mari

Well yesterday was an ok day until he found out he couldn't stay at grandmas he threw a fit screaming and throwing things and proceded to kick my van door. Neighbors witnessed this and told me today he would have been going home with a black and blue butt. I just told them Anthony doesn't care about spankings been there tried that. He has high tolerence for pain. Thursday was a high day friday kinda even until 6pm today he is still kinda irritable back talking. I just don't know what disciplinem to do with him. Is there some special guidlines? Because the corner doesn't work and putting him in his room doesn't work it leads to a rage pretty much anything does. And when it comes down to a reward chart thats a joke. Just telling him how proud I am and stuff when he is good it seems like he purposely tries to be bad. Even when I tell docs hes been doing better he turns around and seems like purposley acts worse. I just don't know what to do about the psycotherapy part. And yesterday he seen councler and she agrees there has been no improvement that we need to see someone else who might have some other ideas and approach things in a different way. So he is going to see the psycologist instead of the social worker. Which I would have preffered all around. chreey

Chreey

You are handling things perfectly, just by not giving in to him. THe neighbor
has never had to handle a child or anyone else with a problem. And I hate
to tell them, but if they had done the black and blue thing they would probably have gotten child protective called on them now days.

I believe that you are handling things the best each time you can. And
I think if he has done good, and it makes it worse then just say things
have been okay. If not then say its been bad. Till he seems to want
to be given the good words.

Don't worry about what works for others.

I believe you know your child.

Donna

Something I did when my son was younger and acting exactly the way you describe (usually in the dead center of walmart or something) was to print up business cards.

"If you are reading this card you have expressed concern or opinion reguarding my son. My son has a condition called Early Onset Bipolar Disorder. Please refrain from offering advice and/or comments as they set back the behavior plan put in place by his medical staff. If you are interested in learning more about this disorder please visit bpkids.org. Thank you for your understanding."

Sounds corny but it really works. I wouldnt even say a word. When some onlooker would say something like you describe I would simply hand them a card and continue on with what I was trying to do. they would usually roll their eyes and slink off, a few would appologise and smile at me, and I can only remember 3 times that anyone continued to offer comments after I gave it to them, and I have passed out HUNDREDS

Something to keep in mind with the "beat his butt" comments is "You don't beat a seizure out of a child with epilipsy, and you don't beat the bipolar out of a cycling child." With age, proper medication, and more patience than most people will ever have to muster up, it does get better. You have to remember that proper medication is the only way he can improve. If he isn't medicated the right way the dots are not going to add up for him and he will not be able to feel empathy or remorse OR be able to learn to feel those things. But he will get there.

I feel so bad for you. I remember feeling as helpless and dejected as you are right now. It was hell, and no one can understand the endless day and night war that goes on in your house. I also remember what it was like hating myself because sometimes it was hard to even feel love and compassion for my child who could not help how he was acting.

It does get better. You just have to hang in long enough to find the right medications and doses. (Zyprexa was the only drug that ever worked for my son)

Thank you both for your words. Yesterday went ok. Today was different. He threw his shoe at his grandma and all she wanted to do was so grandpa that his knew shoes were already worn out that he needed knew. I gave the shoe back to him 4 times until he finally handed it to halfway nicely. Then Anthonys uncle and cousins came over and he never acts up around my uncle. Well my uncle got a little taste of what dealing with a bipolar child is like. Anthony was arguing with everyone and throwing basketballs at them. I had to make him go to his grandma she was trying to talk to him again and he was focused on arguing. Then he hit me and I pinned him down. Then I got a phone call had to get the baby who was next door at other grandparents. So I carried my 9 year old with me for a time out and he is fighting me kicking me finally I had to ask my uncle for help. He came in and talked to him and got him taking some deep breaths and calming down. Usuallythat wouldn't work but he wouldn't dare hit orkick my uncle. It took a lot of energy out of him. But when family members open there mouths its like ok go read the bipolar child the book will explain it all. So I may have to make up some of those cards:) they may come in handy. His one grandma told the councler she thought he was doing better. When he starts to cycle or rage I ask her if she calls this better? I just hope the medication starts to help or they find the right one. Before the time comes where he has to be hospitalized. I really wish they would do a partial but Im not sure if that would mess him up emotionally more than he already is and make him hate me. chreey

Well they are supposed to be transferring his case to the psycologist. The counler told me to call her by wednesday if I hadn't heard anything. So I call and she tells me to call back and leave a message with the psycologist. So I do this and the next day the receptionist calls me back asking me if I wanted to set up apt with the councler if that is why I called and I told her no and what was going on and she said she would have to talk to the councler and have her get back with me. UGH :mad: Im getting the run around its driving me nuts. He is supposed to be going for therapy every week and its been a week already and no apt so who knows how long he will have to wait. Finally found a good psyciatrist but the therapists are terrible so far. chreey

Chreey

I would put a call into the Psychiatrist on Monday. Let him/her know
that the area were the counselor /psychologist is to be changing is
giving you the run around.

That it will soon be two weeks since he has been seen. And that
you need to know what to do. Does he/she have a clue what to do.

Donna

ps. Your doing a great job for him. Just remember the squeaky wheel
is answered.

Yeah Im going to have to do something. My husband is going with me for the first time thursday to see the psyciatrist. im going to have to mention to her that Anthony seems to start having problems around 5pm. Might have to give him his meds at 3pm and then again before bed. But I don't know how that would affect him all day until 3pm on weekends. Because she told me once before if he acted real sleepy at school we could do this. Im not sure going to have to talk to her. Do you know if they usually give abilify three times a day? chreey

Well apt with psyciatrist went well today with my husband. My husband told doc he didn't believe the diagnosis. And she explained to him that if we needed to rearrange are lives and daily activies then that was normal for a child without a dx. We talked about are parenting skills a little bit and some things that needed changed and also anthonys abilify will be taken at 7am and 430 pm now instead of 7 and 7. She also thinks the hand tremors are hereditary from my husband. i never thought of that because I never noticed it before he started meds. well we will see how things go. chreey

Wow everything sounds so familiar.... I am a diagnosed bipolar who is miserable I am happy one min sad the next angry the next. I am tearing my family apart. My goal is to get me straightened out and then things will be ok. I am very negative about everything. If anyone has any suggest on a med or anything that could possibly help me Please let me know I have been dealing with this for 17 yrs and I am in crisis right now I have three beautiful boys a beautiful step-daughter and a husband. My middle son is ADHD and i also believe has bipolar as well. He can not control his anger and has hurt others bad at times and sometimes it scares me that he will hurt someone too bad. I always think the worst of things. Someone always has an agenda behind what they are doing and its never good. I want the best for them but when they hurt me I want them to hurt (not physically) but inside like I am. Please help me someone

Hi needshelp08. Welcome to the boards!
I have 2 children with bipolar. It can be both depressing and frustating at times. You must have a lot of strength to be able to see what the problems are, and ask for help!

I think what you should do is to simply print out exactly what you have typed here, drive to whoever prescribes your bipolar medication, and hand it to them. They will be able to adjust meds as well as guide you through available resources that will make things easier and helping you and your family. You are absolutely right. Chaos filters down through the entire house, and healing does as well. This will help all of you!

I am a newbie here but deal with bipolar daily
 

My heart goes out to you. I am raising a grandchild who is ADHD, Bipolar, OCD, ODD, and suffers from PTSD. Finding the right meds for your child is very important, if the ones he is on does not work have your Doctor try something else. My little one is on Concerta, Geodon, Celexa, and Clonidine for sleep. That seems like a lot but it works for her. We have been through the rages, mood swings, depression, etc. It is not easy. My daughter has a child that is suffering from the same problems as my child and they are on different meds because they work different with different children. You need to find a group or a person you are confortable with to talk to about your life with a disabled child (and he is disabled). The Flex 504 is for children like ours that are not learning disabled but other health empared. Is very good program and gives your child some safety nets at school.

This is very good advice. I'm sorry I can't quote. But I too have
a young man that was dealing with anger that I believe was Bipolar,
he now is 26 and doing well. He still has moments of problems.

I have learned that getting him to help early was good for him.

So please work on getting him to accept help.

Donna

I don't know about anyone else, but I personally cannot focus on the problems of anyone else; including my four children, if my own emotions are so out of whack that I can't think straight.

I think focusing on your own health should be first and foremost. Once the pain from your self-described crisis starts to lesson then you will be able to care for the needs of your son and other children. The chaos in your house will lesson as well once you are feeling more in control. (the old saying ***** rolls downhill is SO true.)

Once your needs are met you will be a wonderful advocate for the help needed by our child! There are many centers and services available. (I run a non profit for special needs children that includes invidual and family counseling, IEP and 504 writeups and advocacy for school and work related issues, respite care for those times you are at the end of your rope, and a center that the kids can just come play games and interact with each other in a safe atmosphere.) These types of serves are available throughout the United States - although finding them can prove difficult. Ask for help locating them when you go into speak with your own care providers!