SAM-e
 

S-adenosylmethionine

i have been taking it for awhile (4 months now i thinkg..i can go back and check) now after my dr suggested it. i had blood work that came back and said my liver function was on the low side ( just barely but still...) he couldn't give me any cause for that. i am not taking any rx's and very rarely use any otc pain meds.

the dosage i am on now may seem high, 400mg am and 400mg pm.

but..wowza..world of difference in many areas.

my hair, which used to grow like a weed and had slowed so far down i rarely need a hair cut. my last one had been in april! :eek: growing fantastic now. my fingernails, which i never had fake ones, always had my own long hard ones, had been peeling & cracking, are back to long and no chipping, peeling...breaking. and my skin...oh goodness. even hubby asked if i was sneaking off for facials or if i had "something" done.:rolleyes:

my pms...99% gone. i reserve the right to keep that 1% :p i have a VERY stressful life. and VERY high pain levels daily. i tolerate these stresses so much better.

oh...and the migraines...just about gone! maybe 1 per month.

i can't say that my sleeping has improved from. i wasn't expecting it to. i started taking a melatonin that also has L-Theanine and B-6 in it. hubby bought, it so i am trying it. (was going to try plain melatonin, but i opened the bottle before looking :o ) it helps me to actually fall asleep. but i still wake from pain.

is anyone else taking SAM-e? what is it doing for you?

*remember...check with your dr before adding any otc med*

That's very cool! :cool:

I wish I had some more time today so I could look up some more info. on that stuff... sigh... maybe later.

About the sleeping. There's a good study that showed large levels of B12 to improve the sleeping ability in teenagers. I know you're not a teen, but I've found it to be helpful also... and whenever I start to have trouble, I give myself a whopper dose of B12 meth.

See: http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/sh...6150#post36150

SAMe is wonderful...
 

for some people. It was a Godsend for me back in 1999--- looking at that huge
scalpel the ortho was sharpening on my visits for my inflamed knee.

But I would really not suggest you take it later in the day. It can be very energizing, and cause insomnia. I only take 400mg now first thing when I get up.
If I go below 400mg/day, my arthritis flares.

There is a subset of people who react to SAMe with hypomania. It is not a large
group, but any hyper behavior is something you should pay attention to.

Dr. Walsh from Pfeiffer, has alot to say about who can tolerate methylation and SAMe and who cannot. I can't look it up right now, but those who cannot, should not take it.

From what I know the very high doses, don't need to be taken for a long time.
Most of the studies used only high doses at first, and then cut back to
maintenance ones.

I personally don't use SAMe except when I get up in the early morning, on an empty stomach. I take my 400mg dose then, with my thyroid med. I never went above 600mg/day.

I have severe arthritis, and spondo---the long word--- grade 2. I rarely require pain meds, and can still work, and get around. Just not as much as before, and I do baby myself, and sleep alot when I can.

i am between a grade 3 and a grade 4 spondylolisthesis. i got "lucky" :rolleyes: and got the progressive spondylolisthesis after an accident at age 12. long story.

i'll keep in mind and bring up the insomnia factor to my dr. he is wonderful about responding by email. :D

my insomnia is more from pain. i can't be in the same position for too long. if my ab and back muscles relax...i get slippage. the nerves being hit wake me up like being jabbed with a knife. then it takes me awhile to relax again and fall back asleep. usually around the time to get the monkeys up. :rolleyes:

samE also seems to be helpful for OCD in some people

but I sure am interested in all the other good stuff mentioned here about it!

Curious...
 

you should investigate Lidoderm patches.

They are really useful...and now very very commonly used. I started with them in the early days, and use them for pain when I get a flare.

We have had many posts on many forums here and "there" about them.

I can't recommend them enough.

Is there any problem with a person using the Lidoderm patch when already using a calcium channel blocker for high blood pressure? I ask because I recently read that the patch acts on calcium channels.

rose

re: SAM-e
 

Regarding liver tests, I had a similar experience a few years ago. I saw an MD who works with herbs and he prescribed 400 mg SAM-e twice daily, along with a few other herbs/nutrients (incl. 5-HTP). After a couple weeks (in which I did not seem to experience a benefit with sleep), liver enzymes AST and ALT became elevated, and he suspected that either SAM-e or 5-HTP had caused it. He then told me to stop taking the herbs, tested me again a few weeks later (in which the enzymes had returned to normal), and in a roundabout way told me he didn’t know what else to do.

Note: This was just my experience and doesn’t mean these nutrients will affect anyone else in the same way.

SAMe and the liver:
 

That is interesting West.

SAMe is being used in Europe to improve liver functions and treat cirrhosis.
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=13861436
More here:
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag97/june-report972.html

You know, liver functions can go wonky when you have viral infections.
Mono can really throw them off for example. When a viral infection occurs, functions often improve within 6mos.

Concerning Lidoderm... very little is absorbed thru the skin into the circulation, from these patches. I ran Norvasc and Cardizem thru a drug checker and not interactions came up. That is, nothing has entered the data base YET.

Here is a paper on ion channels/lidocaine:
This is the definition of iontophoresis:

People take S-Adenosyl-L-methionine/SAMe to help their liver if they have chronic hepatitis. AFAIK it's supposed to help stabilize liver enzymes in the process. I also know that there are different types or grades in quality of SAMe, with some brands being more pure than other brands, a bit like with Melatonin. I used to get mine sent to me from USA at a time it wasn't available here readily.

Curious, glad it's helped you. I took it for a long time some years ago. I have read about it actually causing sleeping problems in people who are highly sensitive to the SAMe. No idea how often that occurs. About the low LTF's... Some of the tests can be low in certain illnesses, but the doctor would have looked at the whole list of the LFT's and got a better picture, so that low level might not have been of any cause for worry from what he could see. I reckon liver function tests as they're called really should be re-named as liver enzyme tests, 'cause although they measure liver enzymes pretty specifically, they don't _always_ give a good picture of the health of the liver anyway. depends.

west, Certain forums of Vitamin B3/Niacin can sometimes cause flushing or elevated liver enzymes if you were taking any of that. I'm not totally sure if 5-HTP can cause elevated liver enzymes, but I know that the SSRI medications can, so it this had happened to me, I would have wondered if the 5-HTP might have been the culprit. I'm not sure what conditions you might have, but there are a number of conditions where the use of 5-HTP should be really used with great caution and also be well monitored.

p.s.

I was thinking about some of the things that people don't realize can be toxic to their liver. Paracetamol is one of them. Not sure if it's called paracetamol there or acetaminophen. We've had a couple of really tragic events here in Australia in recent years, and one as recent as this month, where people have died from accidenatally consuming too much paracetamol.

Usually anyone who responds well to SAMe is likely to be a high histamine type. High histamine types (histadelics) are also known as undermethylators. Methylation is important because for one thing it is one method the body gets rid of histamine, but DNA methylation is how your body reproduces itself.

If methylation does function properly than your DNA methylation will not function properly either. Everytime your cells reproduce you have a greater risk for some genetic mishap to happen if DNA methylation isn't working properly. This is actually how gene expression gets turned on.

Women, because they have two Y chromosomes, actually have some protection when it comes to DNA methylation. The body somehow will take a correct copy and not use a bad string of DNA. If one y chromosome has some bad DNA it will use the other one. But men because they have two different chromosomes, a y and an x, do not have this proective feature.

SAMe is expensive. Hiistadelics are usually told to supplement methionine. SAMe contains methionine. William Walsh of the Pfeiffer Treatment Center did mention in some notes somewhere on the internet that SAMe is better in the beginning than methionine. But there are other nutrients that you need to take besides SAMe or methionine.

Whoa... Women have two XX's and men have an Xy.
(there are variants== XXy and Xyy and X0 but they are not common)
XXy is called Klinefelter syndrome--presents as male
Xyy does not have a name--presents as male too
X0 is called Turner's syndrome and presents as female with infertility

Lara... I use only NatureMade brand. This is the company that did the research on SAMe to make an effective oral form. Previously in Europe (as far back as 1976 in Italy) SAMe was injectable only. It is not stable in oral forms unless specially enteric coated. There are alot of cheap knockoffs out there, so I would be careful. The newest ones are blister packed and safer.
Schiff, and Fusium for example are okay. I get mine on the "buy one get one free" sales at RiteAid in USA... that way they are really affordable. Also for years, before these BOGO sales, I used NatureMade which is sold at Costco.

SAMe does not really work on "pain" per se. It works on restoring cartilage, and connective tissue. So for people with "nerve" pain.. it is less effective.
It does however have impact on MOOD...so that helps with pain perception too. I've been using SAMe aggressively since 1999. It has been nothing short of stupendous for me. I call it the Cadillac of supplements. It is still the most expensive (although less so now from 1.25 a pill to .30cents a pill) in my budget! It can really make one hyper if overused, or used later in the day!

People usually know within a few days if they are SAMe candidates... my husband couldn't stand it. My son has taken it off and on, for stress and "depression", but long term use does not agree with him. I myself cannot do without it. I have tried to discontinue it, but my arthritis flares dramatically when I go below 200mg/day. I only got the "hyper" effect in the first months of use. I started at 200mg/day for a month, and as the hyper went away, I increased to my tolerance limit of 600mg/day. I did that for a couple of years, maybe longer, and decreased, had flares, so now I seem pretty stable on
400mg each morning. I don't have any hyper symptoms or trouble sleeping. But I did in the first month when I started it. I did alot of house work then! LOLOLOL

:p no wonder why all my closets are organized again.

i use the nature made too mrsd. boy do i love finding buy one get free sales. :D

i am due to have my vampire dr do blood work again next week. i can't wait to see the results.

a little follow up:

i have used the same product as mrsd. really like it. hubby picked up a bottle for me when he was getting supokies for the club. it is made by schiff. oh my. not the same at ALL. it is NOT enteric coated!

this normally happy go lucky silly monkey, who doesn't let too much ever get to her...had a serious anger issue yesterday. :( at 3am i re-read the bottle. dumped down the comode and went to walmart and got my nature made!!!!!

you know what else...the week that i took the other stuff...i had the same bloated..not feeling right in my insides as i had before.

I bought Sam-e for my hubby to take and I noticed his mood greatly improving. He is under alot of stress at work plus we have two teenagers (need I say more) so I am thinking that I should take it also. Is there any danger of taking it with Lortab, Pamelor, or gabitril? Also I see that MrsD's son took it so I think I will try it with my daughter. She has never healed properly from her miniscus surgery and she has taken glucosomein but hasn't really seen alot of improvement. I know she forgets to take it and I told her it takes a while to see results after it is taken regularly, but if I don't ask her everyday she will forget. Scary thinking she is using my memory:eek: I bought it at Costco and it seemed like a good price. ...Sue

Well...
 

Curious.... I was "curious" about your post...about the Schiff.

So I went on Schiff's website, and SAMe is not listed. I saw it a SAM's club
a few months ago, in fact.
It is still on their website --
http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/nav...=5&item=203963
The package has changed...from blister pak to this bottle...perhaps reflecting the new type? My NatureMade is still blister packed, and so is my cat's Denosyl.

So on a Google search I found this: An improvement in technology:
Micro-coating, to protect the SAMe from the stomach:
from http://www.nutraingredients.com/news...va-offers-same

They seem to have sneaked this right under my NOSE! LOL
I just buy my old same old SAMe ..and did have a brief thought about how come the 400mg is "so small" all of a sudden?
This new granulate= lower price, I wonder? I would still stick to the standard
manufacturers however. Because Consumerlab.com found 11 products that did not dissolve properly.

BTW in my travels this morning I found this resource:
http://www.sam-e.com/productinfo/MOA.asp

and this http://www.naturemade.com/aboutus/au_pr_pop.asp?S=58

I just opened a new box to get the insert...and that too has changed, is briefer now, than the older one. It has a contact phone # on it, but I won't be home during the day until Tues to try it.

Just for info ...Pliva is a huge generic supplier for the USA. Many generics come from them.

This might explain the lower prices... I have seen SAMe affordable now.
Back in 1999 when I started it (the same year my son started college--that is how I remember it).. it was 1.25/tablet or more. It had been out a year or so at those prices, and I remember shopping for emergency shampoo etc at WalMart when I first got home from a long summer--my son lost his whole bag of stuff I had put aside for him earlier--- and found it on a sale EndCap at WalMart and decided to try it at $15.99/20. Rather Karmic that trip to WalMart was! :eek: Anyway, by day 4 on it I was "sold". I was having "menopause brain" and difficulty with so many computer systems I was forced to use...it cleared that right up! And really did wonders for my knee...only that took much longer. So I joined Costco then to take advantage of their much lower prices ... two month's supply savings paid my membership fees for a LONG time each year. In those days I was using 600mg/day..buying the 200mg 90 pack with bonus 30's. Now the "buy one get one" sale at RiteAid is as affordable, if you don't miss it. NatureMade.com will sent an email alert for it if you sign up. Some of the 400mg strength have $5.00 off coupons on them as well...so during BOGO you save even MORE! RiteAid will accept them during that sale!

I get a whole year's supply of 400mg for about $170, that way.

So I will come back with my detailed requests to NatureMade..later in the week.

thank you mrsd. and yep, he did buy it at Sam's.

update...
 

I did just talk to NatureMade... and they are going to send me
some data later in e-mail.

But for now, the bottom line is that their product is still enteric coated.
It IS slightly different than the older coating, however.

I will add here that if anyone wants some information on their product(s)
that a quick phone call is easy, no waiting and informative.

1-800-276-2878 (NatureMade)

Regarding the Schiff product...I have no clue at the moment. I have seen it
in blister paks. So I don't know why all of a sudden it is in a bottle.
I'll look into that in the near future. It will require a call also, I suppose.:rolleyes:

thank you everyone
 

Im sure going to give SAMe a try, I have no energy now ,cant do anything. So it sournds like its worth a try.

Dana

mrd, is ther any info off the bottle i can give you to help?

Oh, Curious...
 

If you still have the bottle/packaging?

Is there a 1-800 to call? An insert? Or the words enteric coated?

I looked up www.iherb.com SAMe selections (no Schiff)

All said enteric coated...but some were bottle packaged some blister.
about 50/50.

This new granulation type may still not be 100% stable for consumers, and
the enteric coating may be necessary still.

Also I forgot to mention that the sales rep suggested using B-complex with
SAMe...this info is not on the insert however. And it has always been mentioned throughout the years here and there.

Here is an interesting website:
http://www.raysahelian.com/s-adenosylmethionine.html

I do NOT recommend cutting or breaking tablets...this would remove the protection of the enteric coating and the SAMe would then be destroyed by stomach acid. There is a product available at 90mg/tab...it is a Vet product called Denosyl (and it costs more than human SAMe too). It is also well made, coated and blister packed..my cat has taken it.
You can buy it online if you want a lower starting dose.
I cannot find the B-complex suggestion yet, but I will still look later when I have more time. If you find too much "excitement" at starting doses, you can try 200mg/ every OTHER day of the human form. I found it rather energizing until my body got used to it. I increased monthly to 600mg/day where I stayed. I would also not suggest taking it after noon... and still to take on an empty stomach at least 1 hr before food. If irritablility remains, or if you experience mania/hypomania, I would discontinue and seek medical attention.
Latent bipolars, may have trouble with this, but since it is a slow metabolic enhancer, not a drug, you will have "warning". There are many people who are bipolar and do not know it. This is basically the only caution, to date with SAMe.

here is the info off the bottle.

1-800-526-6251 (8am-5pm mom - fri
www.schiffvitamins.com

Supplement Facts
serving size 2 tablets
servings per container 50

calcium ( as anhydrous dicalcium phosphate) 65 mg
SAM-e 400mg

other ingredients; cellulose, stearic acid, coating ( methacrylic acid polymer, magnesium trisilicate, titanium dioxide, poysorbate 80, propylene glycol and riboflavin) croscarmellose sodium, magnesium stearate and silicone dioxide.

Hi Curious,
I know nothing about Sam-e stuff.

But I was a hairdresser for severals years.;)

A average person hairs grows about a 1/2 inch a month. Does your scalp feel tight? If it does get in their with the balls of your fingers when shampooing. This can help some with circulation.

Also do you color your perm or hair? What texture is your hair? I am asking this because people can get alot of breakage from the bottom. Usually at least the ends of your hair will feel dry.

Hugs, Roz

my pic is in my profile so you can kinda tell.

right now there is no color added. :p or taken away.lol ala natural.

no split ends. shiney....it just had not been growing like it always had. scalp good. i don't use many products in it. i am being a very very good monkey!! cuz i have been a frosted, bleached, colored fool for years and years. but it was still healthy. i was always very good at conditioning...eat very healthy.

i can really tell it is growing. i feel like i have to trim up my bangs evry other week. and my fingernails...so long they make for lots of typos...beyond my norm.

ahhhh...scalp and head massage...love them. i will start doing this when i shampoo!! that is daily...boy will that help with stress too. ((((roz)))) thanks bunches forthe help!!

Hi Their,
I am sorry. I misunderstood on your post. Your hair is fantastic and you are gorgeous. Hugs, Roz

it was getting bad roz...i think ti is the SAM-e that has helped.

sorry...to be late getting back...
 

I had some time off today, and called Schiff.

It turns out that
1) they are enteric coated. No explanation for why it is in a bottle however.

2) they know it is moisture sensitive, and include a moisture pak to help.
(but if you live in a humid place or on the water..I wouldn't count on that helping much)

3) that product is NOT on the website because it is ONLY made for SAM's club, and that is why I could not find more on it.

So if you use it up quickly (not let it sit around after opening),
and keep it away from humid conditions, it might be stable in a bottle. But I would not vouch for it, myself.

Bumping up for BlueMayo

Hey !!!! thanks for that !!! You are my idol :hug:

You are very welcome.

I'm sure after this holiday weekend, your thread will get more replies.

I will say...my hubby has been known to stock up on this when CVS or Walgreens has the buy one get one free sales. Strange huh? :p

My back wouldn't hold me up if it wasn't for SAMe.

I am glad that is working for you, Curious.

My little attempt to see if I could live without, is not working out this month. So I am going back on it. I've had too much pain this week I guess!

Thank you for bumping this up. Mrs D you said that your husband could not tolerate it but could you explain more? Is there any reason one should not take this?

if you don't need SAMe....it tells you. Both my son and husband get nervous/tense on it. My son has tried it 3 times now. The longest he could go on it was a month.

But I like it...it really gets rid of brain fog (I am having an huge attack of that this week too), and helps if you have joint or
cartilage damage.

If you try it, start at 200mg daily in the morning on an empty stomach. You can take it with your B12 for example.
It you take it later in the day, it may keep you up until you get used to it.

I took 400mg today (all I had left) and have been zooming thru the stores and garden like never before! As you know Daniella, you and I are having a lovely day ... hard to stay indoors. I went to Meijer's and they had seeds and starting trays on sale even! I really lucked out. I have to repair the damage from our street repair from last April. (there are pictures in my album here). I keep a wild flower/plant garden across the street on the city property to make it look nicer. It affords me a dumping ground for excess invasive plants, and gives us a pretty view as well. I found a starter tray with cover that had 6 pks of seeds included free (and 20% off besides)! Those are going onto the city property for sure!

:hug: Don't over do it MrsD. You are so correct, if you don't need it you'll know. My husband tried and nervous, which is not him at all.

Thanks Curious... tonight is going to be a Biofreeze night as well!

I am tired of being trapped by ice and snow and tomorrow will be starting many more seeds (I have already begun my cold tolerant ones). I found a red sweet pea perennial that I am going to try... to cover the mess that the road crew left behind.
I love a new experiment! It is supposed to ramble over stuff...and for some reason the city did not take away much of the dead wood it left behind. So I will try and cover it UP!

SAMe and I are old friends. I think I just NEED it. Unfortunately it is quite expensive, and now I am retired, and have to consider that factor more than before. (the chiro inositol is horrifically expensive! GAG)

more about SAMe
 

Mrs. Doubtfyre, how long would it take before you would notice a change in yourself after you start taking SAMe? I started with 400 mg. yesterday, and can swear I feel better- is it just wishful thinking? I know I should have started with 200 mg., but picked up the wrong dosage, will that matter too much? I hear you about wanting to get outside to garden . . . we just moved to Colorado (Denver area) and everyone says to wait until after Mothers' Day to move anything outside. My mental health is faltering, I need to go play in the soil!

By the 3rd day of the starter dose of 200mg, I could feel it.
It was wonderful for me. And Back in those days it was $1.25
a tablet!

If 400mg proves too energizing after a week or so, you can
take it every other day until you use them up and get the
200mg.

There is a warning on SAMe for bipolar patients. But I have
never seen it happen in real life. SAMe is not as strong as
drugs, for improving mood.

Thank MrsD for telling me about this Sam-e.

One thing I have been reading is that Sam-e under normal circumstance homocysteine, in the presence of vitamin B6, vit12, and folic acid will eventually be converted back into methionine.

HOWEVER, if adequate amounts of the vitamins are not present, Sam-e will not break down properly than homocysteine may increase to unsafe levels. So it is good to take a good supplement of vit. B.

I noticed it said it is not FDA approval. You have to watch for high metal and stuff in it. Watch where you get it.

What I do noticed about it the histamine blocker, which is good for me because of a different health issue. This stuff my health my other health issue too.

Just learning about this stuff and thought you would like to know about the vit.B issue, if you did not know already.

Thanks, Trish