Feeling Kind Of Downgraded
 

I hope some of you may be able to relate to what I'm currently going through. A few weeks ago i got a concussion via a snowboarding accident. Ever since, it seems as though I've been downgraded from my old spontaneous and lively self. I've been feeling foggy and my concentration has been muddy. I've had extreme anxiety and panic attacks like you wouldn't believe and falling asleep at night intimidates me and I'm suddenly trying hard just to keep my eyes shut long enough to fall asleep. Rarely do I get the full needed 8 hours of rest. The dreadful part is that I was getting better after a couple of weeks and there was a point where i had thought i was really coming around. Until I heard about a brain injury story that had me panicked and my Symptoms started to flare again and i was back to feeling horrendous and unpleasant once again. My doctor cleared me and told me that he didn't think anything was wrong with me but my old Psychiatrist believed i have PCS. I declined taking any medication for the anxiety but it really seems to be the symptom that has the most effect on me. That week when i was getting better i had almost no anxiety or panic attacks and It felt as though my symptoms were pretty much vanishing. But after the anxiety and complete doom hit me again the symptoms started to fluctuate and increase once again. The anxiety gives me a really upset stomach, dizziness, shortness of breath, Nausea, pretty much the classic symptoms of an anxiety attack. I thought I was getting better and now i feel downgraded back to where i started when i first got the symptoms. I was wondering if anybody has had the same experience or if they have any encouraging words to spare? I'm 22 and this is my final year of college and I'm fearing something horrible is happening and there's no way out of it. My girlfriend has been really supportive but my personality has changed and i feel like I cant be that guy she first set eye on anymore. = /

hi
 

hi jake

anxiety attacks are not a symptom of pcs in all cases but the general low mood and fogginess could trigger an episode especially if you have suffered in the past if your sleep patterns are out of sync that can also play a part go see your doctor to talk through your options please don,t get PCS mixed up with TBI we share this board so it can happen PCS is disruption of brain function TBI is brain injury you can also help in the healing process by keeping your self hydrated and taking good multi vitamins and most of all taking omega 3 and omega 6 fatty acid,s rest and no more bangs to the head keep going back to the doctor if you are worried keep us posted

kind regards vini

You don't think its PC's? I thought that any form of mild concussion was a form of TBI? Whats the difference between the two?

Hi!
I also got PCS from a snowboard-crash.
Im gonna write more another time, but what you say about the anxiety-attacks and so on. Believe me when I say that EVERYTHING that the brain deals with gets affected. I also have had stressproblems, axiety, nervous-breakdown etc and YES it has to do with my brain beeing more sensitive and out of balance. BIG mistake to think a concussion is a structural damage. My dad has a stress-related problem after working to much for long periods of time in his life with lots of pressure. We can seriously see the same pattern. He hasnt hit his head yet we are the same way. Fatigue, stress, hard to sleep, koncentration-difficulties etc etc!!

Concussions are a scary thing to go through. For some people, especially young people it can trigger an episode of acute anxiety and stress. It sounds like you've got yourself very scared about what could be going on in your head physically which is very easy to do if you start reading around on the internet. The personality changes, the fogginess and slowness are all common symptoms of ANXIETY and so not necessarily evidence that you are suffering from PCS (although PCS just means you are ill after a concussion so it could be called that).

My advice is to STOP reading on the net about what might be wrong with you and to take it very easy for a while. Do things that you enjoy, be kind to yourself and find ways to calmly distract yourself from things which trigger your anxiety. Getting some medication for the anxiety may help. Some therapy may also be beneficial especially if you have suffered anxiety or depression in the past.

I suffered a relatively mild concussion from which I thought I had recovered a few days later. I've been struggling with depersonalisation, derealisation, anxiety and depression for the past 8 months since but am about a million times better than I was 7 months ago. But when I took a look at my life pre the accident I realised that I had been dealing with all these things already. The concussion just seemed to tip me over and bring everything crashing down so I had to rebuild my life.

Wish you all the best. I'm certain you will be back to yourself. In fact you will probably be happier once you get through this. Just give it some time and don't for a minute think that you have brain damage cos that will suck you straight back into panic land!

hi
 

hi

Benjamin is right he was in a similar place and is well on his way now , you hit your head and hurt your brain your scans were normal so there is a very good chance you will come right in time and rest, if your scans showed structural damage this would be TBI . PCS is after concussion whether you were knock out or not, the brain has to kind of de frag it,s self , like when you can out, you check your self out to see if you are hurt, and this ,takes time and our functions run slow, but in TBI the components are missing or damaged, the panic you feel maybe due to a kind of informational over load and a kind of realization that we are not invincible , like you have recover enough to think wow I was lucky , with TBI there is often as in my case no memory before and after, I was the same motor cross cliff jumping ect when I was young see, if you cant get the sleep thing sorted

hope you feel better real soon

keep us posted

vini

Hey everyone thank you for all the help and comments. As it turns out I don't have PCS, Instead a specialist believes I'm suffering from post traumatic stress, which would explain why i only start to feel completely hopeless and ill when the anxiety and flashbacks of the incident occurs. I've been prescribed some relaxants and an antidepressant. With time this should all pass and I'll return back to my carefree and less irritable self. I thank everyone for their support.

benjamin, you're correct on so many levels man. Apparently the stress of the incident (being knocked out of nowhere and having my entire conception of saftey thrown out the window) caused for an acute traumatic stress episode which I've been dealing with on a day to day basis but ever since i was told it wasn't so much physical as mental I've been kind of feeling much better almost like myself again only with the depersonalization factors kind of making things a bit foggy and stressful. But The doctor who specializes in the brain and post traumatic events told me that its just part of the healing and will subside within a few months. I've been sleeping a lot easier with the medication i'm taking even if its just the minimal dose. I've had less flashbacks of the incident and I'm currently paying less and less attention to the event and the emotional after math of it. I've also been taking it easy on the flicks that i watch (I cant even watch my old snowboarding videos i used to make with friends) at least not right now since watching anything to do with snow or mountains causes me to get nervous and the anxiety / nausea comes back. I'm also like hypersensitive right now, any loud sound or even the rustle of leaves outside makes me a bit edgy but apparently all of that is normal with acute traumatic stress. Again thank you so much for your input guys its really been helpful. Hopefully the dissociation and depersonilization will slowly start to fade away again and wont come back. = )

I'm glad you are doing well and getting good help. I hadn't realised you were experiencing depersonalization too, our experiences are very similar. I suffered dp acutely for several months so that my sense of time and space got screwy and I felt completely detached from my emotions, memory and self. It's a really scary thing to experience after you've hit your head because you naturally presume it's brain damage. In fact many people who haven't hit their heads who experience dp are convinced they have a tumor or some form of serious brain disorder (they are of course physically perfectly healthy)! DP also comes with its own set of symptomatic partners like tinnitus, visual snow, poor concentration, low awareness, depression, anxiety etc....all of which are common symptoms of PCS! It gets very confusing but the thing to remember is that these are symptoms of a brain/mind that is out of balance rather than physically damaged and will disappear as that balance slowly restores. And for that to happen it needs rest and as little stress as possible. I'm speaking from experience here rather than as a qualified pro but I know what's helped me and our experiences seem very similar.

The way to beat the DP is to just leave it alone. Understand that it's your mind's way of blocking out stress and that it can't hurt you (though it is very unpleasant) and it WILL go away in time. Try to just carry on with life as normal as possible and keep yourself occupied with things that you enjoy. Maintain social contact too with your friends and family. All these things will slowly reassure your mind that reality is no longer a threat. Don't drink or smoke weed either! It might take some months and don't expect it to be a perfect upwardly linear recovery but you'll get there.

I found a great article that distinguishes the difference between PTSD and TBI. Apparently studies show that victims of TBI usually do not develop PTSD because TBI is more often followed by loss of consciousness and amnesia. As described, the loss of memory can serve as a protective agent against the formation of PTSD. Those who remember and were not necessarily out of consciousness for a long duration at the time of the event are more likely to develop PTSD. They are in fact cognitively healthy and physically healthy. But emotionally they are going through a stressful situation. The symptoms of PTSD and TBI are almost identical in nature. But the anxiety and fear are a lot more severe in those with PTSD. Depersonalization is also highly particular in PTSD patients. The way in which the traumatic stress episode is re-experienced should thus differ depending on the amount or type of memory loss. So if you had a loss of consciousness for a long period of time the chances of PTSD is unlikely. Whereas if you remember the event prior and during and were out for a split second or maybe not at all the chances of developing PTSD are much greater. Pathological memory formation during an alarm response may set the precondition for PTSD to occur. So if you remember the event and there was no significant loss of memory or consciousness there is a good chance you are suffering from PTSD or its acute variant. Remember both have similar symptoms but the depersonalization and severity of stress / anxiety is more common in PTSD.

thanks
 

thanks JW

can you post the link to the artical

vini

I have read about this too. I was confused and disorientated during my concussion for a good 15 minutes and I only remember a few bits of that time, but I do remember how incredibly petrified I was at not knowing quite where I was, who I was or what had happened. I knew I had hit my head but I kept on asking how over and over. Then I felt my memory return and I began to get my head together. I remember how hard I was working at not descending into complete panic.

I don't believe I have PTSD as I was able to easily return to the location of the accident and don't find much difficulty in talking about it although doing so does make me foggy. I also have had no experiences of reliving it or having its memory intrude on my thoughts. I would however say that I sometimes spend 50% of my day thinking about concussion and what's wrong with me and if I'll ever fully recover. Maybe some people form their own type of PTS and this is mine....I dunno.

benjamin you might not have PTSD but the accident might have triggered a general form of anxiety disorder that you may have been predisposed to. Our brain responds to traumatic events differently. Depending on genetics,family history of anxiety, personal accounts with anxiety could all play a big role in triggering your brain to go into panic mode. PTSD is just a variation of anxiety disorder attached to the event itself. Your brain might not have been effected by the event or area in which you received the blow to the head but it still might have been effected by the general situation of being put in harm and feeling like there's something wrong with you and that impending doom is on the way. This triggers your brain to go into a panic state which leads to anxiety through out the day. IE constant concern over your health and thinking the worst. The only difference with me is that I'm constantly thinking about the event itself and replaying it over and over, this starts a vicious cycle of anxiety. Sometimes I start to panic over the idea of having something really wrong with me. The most irritable part about this is that PTSD and anxiety disorders in general have similar symptoms to PCS. Feeling spacey, hard time concentrating, foggy memory. My brother went through something similar as to what i'm going through when he had his anxiety disorder which was caused by OCD. In fact most of the anxiety disorders have similar outcomes anyway even if its just a general anxiety disorder you're going through. Look back into your past and see if you were predisposed to anxiety disorders or anything like that (this doesn't necessarily mean you aren't going through one) but it can help trace the origins of it.


ps vini i have to post twice more to bring that link up :p

anxiety disorder is like the most vicious and uncomfortable period of healing from a traumatic event. I remember i had it bad a few days ago where i was pretty much on the verge of panic attacks all day. I couldn't even eat. I had no appetite and worst of all my emotions are all shot and i feel emotionally numb. Except for the constant panic and anxiety. But its been getting some what tolerable and manageable since i went on the SSRI's. But they're pretty much worthless when the panic attacks start up.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...i?artid=395832 heres the link vini.

I have suffered several panic attacks and anxiety and a lot of stress since I was a teenager. Last year I would wake up often in the night with my neck so stiff I could hardly move it and feeling like I had a head full of rubbish all just bouncing around randomly. That was BEFORE my accident. I also have a brother who suffered depersonalization and acute anxiety for a year or so and the only difference between our symptoms is that I get sensitive to noises and have tinnitus (but this could be TMJ related as I have TMJ problems to do with tension).

hi guys
 

thanks jake and Benjamin

you have both hit your heads quite bad by the sounds of it, try not to go off on tangents by giving your self lots of different disorders PCS will do for now , but I think the most common thing that go,s with this is PTSD this also can heal with time, and depends on the the degree of mental trauma / injury ? to ones Psyche take someone who witnesses violence or is a victim of same .its the same with an accident, you were attacked by the stairs or a snow bank or what ever , so our brain is on the look out , at a subliminal level, hence the the panic attacks and anxiety
keep improving guys sorry for the psycho babble

vini

Nice one
 

thanks jake but it dos ant say you are less likely to get pcs but are less likely to get ptsd but some times not knowing HOW WHY WHEN OR WERE can cause its own set of probs

good link thanks

well vini PTSD occurs more likely if you remember the actual incident and can probably come with PCS. I'm fairly certain i don't have PCs currently. The symptoms from PCs don't seem to be synonymous with this type of anxiety / intrusive thoughts. Not to mention i don't have any head aches. The depersonalization seems to be more common with PTSD and not PCS. But thats just a natural function of the brain to induce a chemical stimulation to protect your mind from further stress. This happens when you're in a fight or flight situation and helps you deal with life and death stress levels in say a combat situation or even accident. With PTSD that chemical is released almost everyday until you feel comfortable and your mind feels confident again. It's quite unpleasant. It is not unlikely that after a head injury PTSD may develop. This is especially prevalent with people who have had a history with anxiety disorder and family history of anxiety. My brother for example went through something i'm going through for 6 months with his OCD. Every symptom i describe he experienced when he went through his stress disorder. Maybe there's a direct correlation between PTSD and PCs after an accident, science is still very premature when it comes to the human brain.

hi jake
 

hi jake

it is good you have a handle on you condition and recognize the causes of it, its true many different things can set off the fight or flight response I think my PTSD was delayed by 5 months when I kind of woke up to the fact I have a tbi and sketchy memory,s of how I got it, its unpleasant but I tend to be able to talk myself down and avoid or limit the situations

kind regards vini

I just joined this site today and I am not sure if this is the place to post this or not. I fell on the ice on Christmas morning of 2008 on my way into work. Later that day I went to the ER at my local hospital. I had 2 skull fractures and two bleeding spots, one on my frontal lobe and one on my temporal lobe.Had Xrays and a CT scan. Spent the night in ICU, where the staff allowed me to dehydrate( had an IV line but no fluids) Next morning they hydrated me and gave me another CT scan and sent me home. My neurosurgeon said I could go back to work 3 days later although I had an extreme headache and he did not perform any sort of neurological test on me. He relied solely on the X-ray and CT scan to tell me I would be fine, just don't lift anything over 50 pounds. Went back for another CT and again, no exam. Then I went for an MRI with contrast. It was incredibly loud and painful. I was not told about how much it would aggravate my headache etc. The neurosurgeon then pronounce me fit to return to work with 50 pound weight restriction, once again without any sort of neurological test( check my pupils, memory, strength etc) I then went to a neurologist who diagnosed me with PCS, gave me an anti-depressant( I think it started with and A) and Darvocet for pain. I am still not able to this day to sleep well, concentrate or feel like my old self. I have experienced headaches on a daily basis, I feel confused and disoriented a lot of the time. I have poor short term memory and I am easily frustrated and angered. I sometimes have ringing in my ears and feel worn out and out of place when I go out in public a lot of the time.My libido is very low and i have blurry, out of focus vision and at times double vision when trying to read. As far as reading books goes, I have given up on that, although I used to be able to read 2 or 3 books a week. Most of the time I feel like I am in some sort of daze or fog. My girlfriend has been very supportive but after nearly 6 months she is getting tired of the whole situation. I was 50 years old when I fell, I am now 51 and my employer was kind enough to fire me from my job 2 months after it happened, even though I am still on Worker Comp. Even if I was physically, mentally and emotionally well enough to work , I am sure it will be difficult to find a job, given my age and the fact that I am probably considered an health or safety risk now.I hope I have not gone on too much, but after reading some of the posts here I feel like there are finally some people who can relate to what I am going through.

Mark in PA,

You are having a normal experience with Work Comp. Do you have access to your own doctor? Have you talked to a Work Comp attorney?

I would strongly suggest finding a Work Comp attorney who understands head injuries. Head injuries are very hard to get handled in a Work Comp situation. Does your employer have a disability program for employees?

Ask an attorney if your firing should instead be a "laid off due to disability?" This starts a clock for Social Security Disability. Some states do not allow an employer to fire an injured worker. Check this out with the attorney.

Also, find a brain injury support group and go with your girl friend. You both need to understand what is happening. Download Dr Glen Johnson's TBI Guide at www.tbiguide.com

Print it out and have anybody close to you read it.

Regarding attorneys, you might want to check with a personal injury attorney. Since you were going into work, this may not be a proper Work Comp situation. Employers try to use Work Comp because it protects them better by limiting the benefits to the injured employee.

At your age (over 50), Social Security considers you to not be retrainable. If you cannot return to your last job, then you may qualify for SSDI.

I am 54 and now on SSDI after a Work Comp head injury in 2001. Work Comp in California is a nightmare. The Governator (Ahnold) has made it very difficult for the injured to get legal representation. I hope PA is better.

Hang in there, you may be in for a long ride. The best you can do is wait and try to relax. Stay away from alcohol and other toxins while your brain tries to heal.

btw, Could you go by Mark in PA rather than Mark G? It confuses my brain damaged mind because I am also a Mark G. Just go to your profile and change your screen name. I see Mark G and think it is me. I quickly correct myself, but....

Regarding PTSD
 

PTSD is not a chemical imbalance that goes away as Jake has tried to say. It is more like a physiological stripping of the gears in the brain due to the almost Obsessive traumatic thought patterns. The various anxiety syndromes are the common outcomes and even some more serious problems like delusions.

In my opinion, most PCS subjects have generalized or specific anxiety disorders brought on by the trauma and lack of strength of the brain to understand and correct for the symptoms.

I have suffered from PTSD without a concussion. I have studied it for years. I see a comparison but not a direct link. Soldiers often get PCS and PTSD from a single event or close events. The PCS does not cause the PTSD. It only makes the brain more susceptible to PTSD since the clouded thinking makes it difficult for the brain to understand the ongoing traumatic situation. This looping thoughts of the confusion surrounding the ongoing trauma results in high levels of stress with the stress chemicals poisoning the brain and leaving damaged brain cells. This results in the PTSD.

Any PTSD from a concussion is due to a pre-existing anxiety problem that prevents the rational acceptance of the injury. People do not just become stressed out worry worts from a concussion. The stresses that existed prior to the concussion (perfectionism, work-ahol-ism, over-work, prior trauma, depression, GAD) are only made worse by the concussion.

There is a syndrome that some call PTSD. It is the concussion subject who refuses to accept that their brain has been injured and by this refusal, they over-stress their brain into a PTSD like condition.

We can choose to accept our symptoms as real and work with them for improvement or we can fight them and over-stress our brain and get worse. I choose the former.

BTW, This stress reaction to concussion appears to have a link to a grasp of reality. Those who can accept reality do better. Those who fight reality have a life of stress and do much worse.

The serenity prayer says it well.

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Good read
 

Hey guys, thanks for the posts. As I mentioned in my last post, I thought I was recovering from the PCS, but then I started to feel 'wrong' again, but without the physical symptoms of PCS - headaches, dizziness, etc etc etc. The depersonalization sounds very familiar. I think I will have a talk to my GP about that one. I am also getting a referral to see a psychiatrist (??), someone who will hopefully know about bit more about the human brain.

Any more advice on how to 'come out of the fog'??

starting here and working backward, I made several unsuccessful attempts to change my User name but no dice. Sorry.

I do not use any drugs other than Pamelor (nortriptalyn) and darvocet as prescribed by my neulogist. I dont use alcohol or any tobacco products and I have been a vegetarian for well over 20 years. I was in excellent physical condition until my injury.

SSI here is a joke, just not funny. I have already spoken to SSI regarding some assistance. I have to be out of work and completely unable to do any sort of work at all in order to get SSI. I can apply for DSS( disability security income) but over 90% are turned down and then you need to hire an attorney to plead your case. I am also ineligible for SSI because I make too much on Comp.

At my age and with my condition I may not be trainable but they can try to force me to do some work that I have done in the past. I have had several well-paying jobs in supervisory/managerial positions. But again, at 51 and injured the chances of scoring a decent job are minimal at best.

I have an attorney who handles the majority of Comp cases in this county and she seems to know what she is doing.I can not sue for personal injury in this state as I was on Company property and going into work at the time of the accident. I guess it is the Commonwealth's way of protecting employers. I have contacted several personal injury attorneys who said the same thing, I have no grounds to sue my employer or the corporation other than Worker Comp.

MY girlfriend found this site while searching for info on PCS. She has read may of the posts and she is the one who told me about this. I will look for support group locally but in the meantime this will have to do. Thanks for the info and the reply. Best of luck in your recovery.

Mark G in Pa:)

hi mark
 

hi mark
PTSD
although I agree with much of what you say I beg to differ on one point, people I think can develop PTSD if it manifests as fear of or anger at a pacific situation, if it is associated with there injury event

Scared and Anxious now
 

I suffered with de personalization for several years. Started as a teenager, and got through it . It was at time maddening and very scary, but I made it through just fine. There were times when episodes would recurr, but they always pass. You must not think over and over in your head. You must relax and do new things and think positive things in your head, and you will get better.
Well, about a month ago, I fell and suffered a concussion. I would say it was moderate. I was way out of it intoxicated when I fell and hit my head. Now the depersonalization has come back. Has anyone ever experienced this?

:(I am not sure if any one can help. I suffered a concussion at the end of April. Had nausea, dizziness (especially when I turned my head or too quickly), severe headaches, and sensitivity to light and noise. I could not even sit down and read for the 2 months after the accident. The doctor kept watching and said I should get better with time. Over the next couple of months some of the dizziness subsided along with the nausea never completely going away though. The headaches went down to about 4 days a week so he started me on Topomax and sent me to a Neurologist. I tried explaining the to Neurologist that my neck was hurting and about the headaches and that my arms were going numb he said that I was experiencing anxiety attacks and go back to work and he upped my dosage of Topomax. I did not agree with his diagnosis of anxiety because I was going numb with some positioning on my head, but he would not listen. I went back to work though. I was sent back home after a short while because I was not functioning at the same level I was before the accident. A new neurologist sent me for a MRI of my neck no herniations thankfully, but I do not understand why the numbness in my arms when I am pulling things and the pain when I am bending my neck forward. I am back at work, my quality of life is not great. I am tired have trouble staying asleep because I will wake up with my arms numb and pain in my neck. I still do not concentrate very well. I want to try to go back to school in September I had been working on my Master's degree and had to take the summer off because I could not read or concentrate. Any advice on the neck pain or numbness?

Happier,

Do you have access to a good physical therapist? Especially one who understands Thoracic Outlet Syndrome (TOS)? and is good at neck mobilization?

Most head injuries also have a neck injury component. A chiropractor may also help. Take you MRI files if possible. A Physiatrist (under Physical and Rehabilitation Medicine in the phone book) may also be good.

GP's and neurologists are just about useless with most head injuries.

to Jake
 

Jake - I've had a similar experience. And had a hard time navigating the system. Finally found a concussion clinic. There, I am normal. One of the key things with concussion is it is an invisible injury, so no one sees how you are suffering. I've had the scary anxiety like I've never had before and it started later in my condition.

I fell down some stairs and broke a few bones in my back - they scanned my brain and said it was okay - (I thought I had done something to my head). But a scan doesn't pick up a concussion.

And it sounds like you are in school or working or both. Well any of that work will set you off. The only thing to date that helps a concussion is rest and relaxation. And alcohol is deadly. The good news is with time you can return to your normal self. But if you don't take time now to give your brain a rest, you may not get better. Your brain gets scrapped and bruised in a concussion. So now it has to heal itself, which it pretty much does when we sleep. So, if you are back in your normal schedule, your brain doesn't have the time and space to heal.

So when I say rest, I mean, very little stimulation. Like not much tv, music, internet. You need to try meditation. It is the only thing I have found to help. And also consider reiki - which I have no idea how it works, but it relaxes you. Take some short walks in nature- keep it light.

I went back to work part time after a couple of weeks and slowly started to get worse. Since I took one week off to rest. I am starting to feel better, but I am not going to rush because the anxiety is frightening.

Don't lose hope. You are not crazy. This is totally reversible, but you can't ignore it. I know exactly how you feel and there is very little knowledge about this - except now with the news coming out about football players.

Okay?

Keep in touch
el