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Surviving After Suicide: A Couple's Mission
In January of 2003, Julia and Kevin Sherbun lost their son Nicholas to suicide. They didn't know he was in such terrible pain and everyone was shocked when they heard.
"There were no notable signs or symptoms that he had depression, or any indication that he was suicidal," said Kevin. "It was one of those things. We couldn't believe it happened to us." But it did, and now the Sherbuns share their story in the hopes of preventing any other family from going through what they did. The Sherbuns work with the Yellow Ribbon Program, an acclaimed national suicide prevention program for high school students through the Suicide Prevention Council. For a year they couldn't even talk about Nicholas' death. Research shows that it is typically up to 3 years before survivors feel they are beginning to heal. "Our new philosophy is that if we can just save one student every time we go and speak it's worth the pain of going and speaking to them," said Julia. "I know we have impacted and saved lives." said Kevin. A multitude of students have presented themselves or others to guidance personnel after all of our presentations, asking for help. And he says talking to the students is helping them. "It's cathartic. We have to prepare for it, and we talk through that and that's been very healthy for us. We didn't choose this mission, this mission chose us." |
http://www.yellowribbon.org/index.html
This wonderful program was started in early 1994 by the Emme's, after their son killed himself. I heard them speak at IUSB and still have the card they passed out. The program has evolved over the years and is now more about prevention than about the people left behind after a suicide. The Sherbuns spoke three times recently (October) at a couple of our high schools and the response is always wonderful...the students attending these programs respond in ways that fill you with gratitude. The school counselors report that their offices are filled with kids "talking about it" and asking for help. As my father always said, "Nothing succeeds like success." *grin |
Yesterdays meeting with the Prevention Council...where to begin? I'm so glad I went and I learned so much. They are very active, very low on funds (like everyone in this economy) and always looking for new ideas.
They are still "putting together" the survey results but said 50 % of those responding were interested in continuing to have a support group and would be interested in leading one. Hooray!!! I'm going to brainstorm with the chair next week about the how's and where's of this...it seems, as I suspected, that Hospice no longer wants to be involved with a support group so it really will be starting one from scratch. And I got a "feeling" that there are now a lot of rules and regulations about groups....probably liability "stuff"...I'll learn more next week. |
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Thank you for posting this information!!!
I'm going to send the yellow ribbon link down to an aquaintance down near the big city.... they've had 3 students from the same school commit suicide in the past month...:( I wish there was some way that we could get people to reach out.... :confused: some way to say... you are not alone... I understand as I've been or I am in your shoes... :confused::confused: Abbie |
I agree Abbie. I am trying to decipher that question myself. I figure if I can figure this out, that question of why people don't reach out, because I have such a hard time doing it myself, then that information can be used to help others. Maybe it needs to be brainstormed. I know there are plenty of people around who could contribute ideas. If we can get them too?? Maybe it could make a real difference. I'm still working on myself, trying to come up with some 'key.' ........:hug: :grouphug:
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Thanks for the story and info, it means a lot when you can see that there is a way to help you heal.:hug:
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...I know, maybe
((((BIG HUGS)))) ..... {{{{Abbie}}}} ...I will try to send you a pm later. It made me very sad too. :o :hug: :grouphug:
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:( That article brought back so many memories from OBT. Will it ever change!! Can't we somehow turn it around...by we of course, I mean society.
The difference between that chatroom laughing and egging him on, and what the Yellow Ribbon Program is trying to do is like living in two different worlds!! Where is the outrage? Can't we treasure the lives we are given...can't we reach out to help each other. This generation of entitlement and instant gratification is going to have a very rude awakening...I know that makes me sound like a really old fart but if the shoe fits Alffe, wear it! |
Quote Mistiis
I agree Abbie. I am trying to decipher that question myself. I figure if I can figure this out, that question of why people don't reach out, because I have such a hard time doing it myself, then that information can be used to help others. Maybe it needs to be brainstormed. I know there are plenty of people around who could contribute ideas. If we can get them too?? Maybe it could make a real difference. I'm still working on myself, trying to come up with some 'key.' ........ 11-20-2008 10:50 AM The lure of Suicide is the release from pain, worry, anguish inner turmoil. if an individual was not suffering from the above the lure would not be present. If consumed with the above feelings...who at the solitary destitute moment would you call for help???????? The blindness that the thought of suicide, bestows upon a person cripples the rational, isolates the art of comunication, consumes self esteem...reducing the individual into believing no one can help them.. We see adverts on TV for all sorts of things...but rarely do i see commercials depicting a soul tortured by suicidal thoughts...and a hand being held out drumming home help is out there.... Like Alffes thread said at the start if the communication is the concept and it saved one life it also saves a whole family .............. David |
"The lure of Suicide is the release from pain, worry, anguish inner turmoil."
And that's what makes depression such a formidable beast..it's always lurking there with false promises about the absence of pain..and when you are in so much pain, it's hard to get your mind around anything else. Flooding the mkt with advertising is a great idea but that costs a lot of money and our prevention coalition has little money. Most of their members are volunteering their time and the newpapers are interested in the sensational aspects of suicide (like the internet story). I wish prime time public television would air yesterdays program with the panel of survivors.....their stories, their pain would educate a lot of people. The Compassionate Friends sends out letters to newly grieving familys when they have lost a child. Suicide Support groups don't have this option because of the stigma...many people hide the fact that their loved ones took their own lives...some would welcome knowing that there is a group where they can "talk about it". It should be viewed as a Public Service and given air time. ~sigh~ |
It has taken me a while to come back to this. I appreciate all the input. David, your insight is amazing. And it is right on. Spoken as only one who fights the battle can speak it. So I try to apply it. I begin with the 12 year old, who never even heard the word 'suicide' and yet, had some idea that bowing out of life was the only answer, and a lure it is indeed. How rational, would you say, is a 12 year old? Who would even consider the fact that someone that age would consider such an option. Actually, consider it the only option. Why the only option? Pain can be blinding. I have written several responses to this thread only to have it disappear. Hopefully this one will not. Reaching out requires the ability to communicate. If the ability to communicate is lost, then how can it be regained? In the case of the 12 year old (me) there was no reaching out either before or after, until years later. I think, maybe, there may be shame? ....for feeling this way? It intimates some kind of failure. That feeling that 'I just can't do it' 'I just can't take it' 'there is no other way out'....I wonder if that is part of what makes the reaching out so difficult. That, of course, would be for the first try. I'm not ready to address the other tries at this point. And, of course, I am coming from my point of view. Then I hope to see it from other points of view.
I believe that education would have to occur, not only for the suicidal, but for the public at large. I wonder about a station like PBS. Maybe they would be willing to tackle such a subject. I am thinking about Sesame Street as well. Why not have 'skits' dealing with sad feelings and what to do when they are experienced. We teach children their numbers, their abc's, but not necessarily how to deal with this 'beast' Perhaps, starting very young would help to avert problems in teens, and on up the line. I think, it is true that people in general do not want to discuss suicide. It goes against the rational mind, and reminds people of their own mortality. "Death" as such is diffcult for most people, even when it is from natural causes. Much less when self-murder is involved. I also wonder why suicide is not seen as an illness. There is plenty of information out there about preventing, treating, and dealing with cancer, diabetes, etc. But what about those who fight, or deal with, suicidal thoughts often. The silence needs to be broken. I know there are people trying to do that. Why don't we, as a society, want to confront it? Why are we so focused on always being happy? Tragedy, emotional pain, mental illness, and loss, are real. Everyone will struggle at some point in their life, no matter what they have or don't have. So, what is the difference between one who would never consider the suicide option, and one who does? I think it is a complicated issue. Each individual suicide, whether 'successful' or not, is unique to the individual making it. But, I think, the basic elements, pain, worry, anguish, inner turmoil, and the confusion it creates are all there. Yes, there may be alcohol and/or drugs involved as well. This can further impair ones ability to be 'rational.' Or, perhaps, it eases the guard down that one puts up keeping them from crossing that threshold. And now, they feel, that they can cross it. And, unfortunately, many do. The stigma is real, and it is seen as a weakness. Who wants to be considered weak? Another reason, I think, a person may not reach out. At first you don't know and you may survive the fall or you may not. Then, you do know. (Alffe's analogy of the hole in the sidewalk) But it takes education to 'know' And it takes education to learn how to deal with suicidal thoughts. I think we need to try to remember as much as we can that Pter learned, and how he navigated through these thoughts without acting on them. Some people will have them and never act. Others will. I'm not sure yet what makes the difference. But I am learning how to navigate through them. I hope to share some of that. I will be brave and admit that I do deal with them more often than I would like to. But, I try, not to let it control my life. I am learning to re-direct, or just watch, those thoughts parade by without 'falling into them' (again, the analogy of the hole in the sidewalk)... Ok, I guess, I am full of it today........:o :grouphug: |
dear Mistiis
It is biography's like yours that will help create a dialogue about suicide.....yes i agree that young children should be educated in all aspects of life....and emotion's should be top of any junior school curriculum. For a start off lets get rid of that horrible saying 'BIG BOYS DONT CRY' By suppressing infant emotion we store up trouble later in life, not necessarily suicidal tendency..but we close doors on humans feeling free to express emotion with other human beings... for fear of ridicule, stereotyping, and castigation. Sadly many of our young people nowadays seek solace and answers to their emotions through man made stimuli..............alcohol/drugs/music/gangs/.........this only isolates them more from searching for truthful answers.... Suicide in the UK is prevalent at present in under 25 year old's..........cannabis and cocaine, along with drink and ecstasy tablets are major factors in an increase in psychosis in this age group.......70% of the young men at my hostel are suffering mental health issues due to addiction... many do not know how to express their emotions verbally.........and to do so is seen as weak by many of their peers...........so solitary self exploration continues with addiction until they reach a point to realise people care about their well being ................... PETERS beliefs were and are very thought provoking messages and are the basis of coping and recovery...............sadly many people fear talking to others about their desperation for fear of being ignored by others CRYING WOLF........................[Peter...wolf...there is basis here alone to see a real connection] if barriers can be brought down to address emotions.... peters coping stratergies could easily be administered to help the healing process.. For example .......if anyone has ever experience a PANIC ATTACK or ANXIETY ATTACK.......You will remember its debilitating effects, the terror it installs and that feeling of impending doom.............im going to die feeling.... Once seen by a medical proffessional and educated about the symptoms of theses bodily burgalar alarms ...............99% of people seek ways through medication, therapy, life style change, stress reduction etc etc... learn to reduce or eliminate the attacks and more importantly understand the reasons of the attack and know it is a natural self defence mechanism. if only humans could understand suicidal thoughts like this explanation it may reduce the fatalities that world wide every day occur ................... David |
...well so much for my answer...I will have to try again later...:o
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Sometimes I wonder if the reason is.. there's such a small success rate in dealing with those who are "clinically" depressed.
On the recent AFSP program there was a psychiatrist who considers himself a "survivor" because he had lost so many patients to suicide. Sometimes when they left his office he wondered if he'd ever see them again. :( Here, in this forum, we talk about having those feelings....but not a large number of people share here....where do they talk?? Do they?? |
Being a person who is on that side... my guess is they don't talk...
I tried but it was hard to get anyone to really listen. Don't get me wrong... they would listen to me talk...but they really weren't listening--not really hearing what I was saying. Often times it felt like I was screaming so loud that no one could hear me. After a while... I just gave up talking. I'm sure this is the way it may be with others... If someone tells you they need to talk.. please don't turn them away. If you aren't sure how you can help them... do what my friends did for me.. call someone who can... set up an appointment for the person... go with them. If you are not sure if your friend has health insurance... call around... there are places that that will see the person needing help on a sliding fee scale. The local crisis intervention number or 1-800-SUICIDE can and will guide you to these places. |
Council News: In St.Joseph County alone there are 35-45 suicides per year, over double the number of homicides. This equates to potentially 3500 attemped suicides, and 250 new survivors (someone who lost a loved one) each year suffering this unique and crippling traumatic grief.
Suicide is a serious complex and multi-dimensonal public and mental health problem that is not gender-or-race-specific and crosses economic barrierrs. It's about pain, hopelessness, isolation, and silence. Suicide is a public health problem stemming from a variety of issues. Stigma attached to receiving mental health care can create a significant barrier to those needing help. The majority of individuals who attempt suicide have given clear warnings, the National Mental Health Association reports, and it is critical that warning signs of suicidal ideation are recognized and responded to appropriately. For each suicide there are approximately 25 attempts; up to 100 attempts in our youth. Also important, for each suicide that occurs, there are at least six survivors left behind that are intimately affected. Suicide can be prevented in most cases, and it is a necessity that the needs of these unique populations be met. Suicide Prevntion Council November, 2008 issue of Council News |
NEW BOOK SUGGESTIONS for Survivors of Suicide Loss The following books have been recently reviewed and added to AFSP's Survivors of Suicide Loss Bibliography. Our hope is that these books will offer hope and guidance for survivors at all stages of healing. To view the complete bibliography, click here. Please visit www.afsp.org/shoponline to order from Amazon.com. Purchases made through www.afsp.org/shoponline benefit AFSP, at no additional cost to you. SURVIVOR GUIDES Dying to Be Free: A Healing Guide for Families after a Suicide Beverly Cobain and Jean Larch, Hazelden Foundation, 2006. Co-authored by the cousin of Kurt Cobain, the lead singer of the band Nirvana who took his own life in 1994, and a crisis intervention specialist, this book combines personal accounts from survivors with practical guidance for coping with suicide loss. Silent Grief: Living in the Wake of Suicide Christopher Lukas and Henry Seiden, Jessica Kingsley Publishers, 2007. Co-authored by a psychologist and a survivor of multiple suicide losses, this book is written with sensitivity and understanding, and offers simple, constructive suggestions for healing along with straightforward information and a message of hope. SURVIVOR STORIES Blue Genes: A Memoir of Loss and SurvivalChristopher Lukas, Doubleday, 2008. Christopher (Kit) Lukas, co-author of Silent Grief: Living in the Wake of Suicide, survived the suicide of his mother when he was a young boy. Neither he nor his brother were told how she'd died, and both went on to confront their own struggles with depression, a disease that ran throughout their family. In 1997, Kit's brother Tony, a Pulitzer-prize winning author, took his own life. Blue Genes is Kit's exploration of his family history, his personal journey and his determination to find strength and hope. Dead Reckoning: A Therapist Confronts His Own Grief David C. Treadway, BasicBooks, 1996. The author, now a successful family therapist, was just twenty when his mother, a longtime alcoholic, took her own life. Even as he counsels his clients on how to deal with death, loss and grief, he finds himself increasingly unable to manage his own. Turning to his own therapist for help, Treadway includes the reader on his journey of healing as he finally comes to terms with his mother's death. Never Regret the Pain: Loving and Losing a Bipolar Spouse Sel Erder Yackley, Helm Publishing, 2008. In her memoir, Sel Erder Yackley, mother of three, provides the reader an intimate glimpse into her family's struggle to understand, cope with, and grieve the bipolar disorder and ultimate suicide of husband, a well-respected judge. The Suicide Index: Putting My Father's Death in Order Joan Wickersham, Harcourt Inc., 2008. Wickersham uses an index -- that most orderly of structures -- to try to make sense of her father's suicide. The family history, business failures and encounters with friends and doctors are assembled into a philosophical, deeply personal and beautifully-written exploration of the mystery of her father's life and death. FOR MEN Swallowed by a Snake: The Gift of the Masculine Side of Healing Thomas R. Golden, Golden Healing Publishing, 1996. This book by a licensed clinical social worker explores the stereotypically "masculine" experience of grief. In the author's words, "[a] man reading these pages will find a book that honors the uniqueness of a man's path toward healing. A woman reading this book will benefit not only from gaining a deeper understanding of the men in her life, she will find herself in these pages." When Suicide Comes Home: A Father's Diary and Comments Paul Cox, Bolton Press 2002. A father's perspective on the first year following his son's suicide, this book is written in a simple, straightforward way - an easy read for early grief. While written from a father's perspective, female readers (especially spouses) have said that it helped them better understand the male experience of grief. (Order by visiting www.boltonpress.com. Currently unavailable through Amazon.com.) POETRY/INSPIRATIONAL A Long-Shadowed Grief: Suicide and its Aftermath Harold Ivan Smith, Cowley Publications 2006. Written from a Christian perspective, this book by a survivor of his cousin's suicide and former funeral director explores the aftermath of suicide through the lenses of spirituality and theology. Healing the Hurt Spirit: Daily Affirmations for People Who Have Lost a Loved One to Suicide Catherine Greenleaf, St. Dymphna Press, 2006. Written by a longtime survivor of multiple suicide losses, this non-denominational book encourages survivors to explore their grief through a series of simple readings and daily affirmations. (Order by visiting www.centeringcorp.com or CompassionBooks.com. Currently unavailable through Amazon.com.) |
Handling the Holidays
Do what you think will be comfortable for you. Remember, you can always choose to do things differently next time.
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Alffe thank you for posting this. I have read and re-read it many times along with other such pieces. It isn't much help, but I imagine nothing could be right now.
I wanted to comment on the candle "ritual" I think it is a nice idea to light a candle, but I don't like the fact that you blow the one out that represents your loved one. I didn't like it when I saw it on the webcast either. We decided not to do that. Instead on Thanksgiving we lit a single candle and left it burning. We placed it next to his picture, I liked it better. What "feels" best for me, and what I would truly like to do is go away somewhere and be alone. That isn't going to happen though! :rolleyes: |
*grin...it didn't really do much for me either Nikki but I figure they are the professionals and it might help someone.
How about this............ First Holiday We lit a candle today, To fill the empty place where you should be but aren't... I stood with my hands cupping the flame and felt the heat... the energy... empty space between the fire and flesh Nothing visible Nothing to see.. And yet I knew it was there - the energy touched my skin. And so it was with you today. Nothing visible -nothing to see. And yet I knew you were here. Your energy touched my heart. by Sandy Goodman Author of Love Never Dies for Nikki ....... :hug: |
Ok, yep that did me in!
((Alffe)) That was beautiful and I thank you for sharing with me:hug: I agree, that reading these things are important and it may help someone. It did help me the first time I read it. It's "charm" has just worn off ;) I am going to copy that poem and share it with my family when we light the candle at our Christmas gathering. I could relate so much to it. I kept looking to that flame all through dinner, it did bring me a measure of comfort. Again, Thank you:hug: |
I received a copy of the letter my neighbor is sending out this year..she felt that she had to thank their friends and family for the support they've received since their son took his life last March...and ours had a personal note on it that brought me to tears. She said this was hard enough to do but could not send out Christmas cards.
I'm relieved to have news of her and I know that she'll be so glad when this first year is finally over. :( |
((Alffe)) I am so glad you heard from her. I know you were worried. Poor dear, my heart breaks for her:(
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I got this today...it would definitely be closer than going to Madison, Wisconsin but I'm still old...*grin
http://view.email.globalcloud.net/?j...65077877147976 I'll have to think long and hard. |
I think that many people hide their thoughts and plans of suicide becaue they are ashamed of it, just as Mistis talked about being ashamed to cry. It's smart to always pay attention to the little things...the questions and words which seem out of place, or a subtle change in personality. We all have things we do which we don't want to share with other's, right? Well, for some, suicide is just one of those things. As much as we think we need it, we're also afraid of being judged as a wimp just for mentioning it to anyone, or worse, being patronized or made fun of. And some people are just so darn good at hiding their feelings. It often comes as a complete surprise because of that.
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....method in my madness
Thank you for bringing that up Idealist. I have been wanting to bring this up for some time now and just haven't. It took a great deal of courage for me to post my pic. I really didn't want to do it. But, what I wanted people to see is that that is the 'face' of suicide. Someone may look at that and would wonder, why????????? I am very good at hiding my feelings, and my pain, both emotional, and physical. I can feel really really bad, and people won't see it not even my pdoc, or the counselor, and psychologist that I use to see. They don't see a problem. In fact, they usually start to tell me about theirs. So funny, but not really. This is not a strength, I don't think. To them I appear strong, and confident, while inside I am dying. Something I need to resolve.
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I so agree with that Idealist...suicide can be such a conversation stoper. And being judged just sucks!! But!!! We have to talk about it, we have to let people know how much pain we are in...no one can help us if they don't know how we feel. What's a little embarassment on both sides of the conversation compared to the possibility of finding some "hope"...that elusive thing with feathers..*grin and there is always the possibility that in sharing what we are feeling...we might find some support. :hug: |
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Me too..............such a peaceful smile:):hug:
David |
bumping up...
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And another bump! :grouphug:
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Sad to see the affect on the parents.
I only found this out because I looked up it wanting to know more details about the event. How did I found out? My Sister's Married to his brother Ryan Sherbun. He still regretful over there. Appearantly it was done with a gun too. I wonder how he got the gun myself... |
when our child, whatever the age, for whatever the reason, ends their life..it changes those left behind forever. I've heard the Sherbuns speak to the very student body where their son had been bullied....it was wrenching to sit through but they saved lives that day by sharing their tragedy. :grouphug:
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I'm so glad you found us. After I heard your parents speak at Penn...a long line of students were waiting to talk to them, to thank them, and tears were streaming down most of their faces...including mine although I am an old lady who's son killed himself 20 years ago. I've also heard that the counselors offices are very busy in the days following their talk.
There is no embrace more conforting than another survivors. Your parents save lives whenever they talk about Nicks death. How are you doing? :grouphug: |
Alffe - you are NOT an old lady :mad:
Other than that, I agree with everything you say! ;) Thank you for sharing with us ry_sky and Mr. Chris. |
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