rose, mrsd, et al
 

i thought i posted earlier today.......oh well, here goes again....
had issues with L leg about 2 years ago....now have numbness in the common peroneal distribution...and seem to have some motor loss and maybe proprioception issues, though the second two seem to be more recent...unless i am only noticing them now d/t the torn hamstring on the R side.....any way.....have issues with spasm in the L thigh, outer calf and outer foot, sometimes inner foot as well. the thigh is extremely painful...the calf not so much....the foot not particularly (when they spasm) however the foot spasms are turning the foot under and i think, tiring the muscle. the foot is really giving me fits, and i am getting a "jelly leg" that doesn't seem to want to hold my wt....i think this is all d/t the extra work it is doing and the PT.....he had me doing the step thing which i will never do again.....there is a reason i avoid stairs,lol. had to have the chiro fix my knee after that.....
but.....i am also taking HUGE doses of B12, experimenting for my hearing (no luck)....and was wondering if there is an outside chance this may be a good thing..... i doubt it, but i could use something positive in my existence right now! yup, i am the queen of run on sentences......thanks in advance

Hmmmm.
 

Hi pabb...

Can you clarify? Did the left leg bother you before you fell?
Did the right leg bother you before you fell?

Where in the thigh does it hurt? In the middle near the knee?
Do you have shooting pain in the thigh...like lightning, or is it more like deep bone pain? Have you had that left knee Xrayed?

Have you had xrays of your back?

What supplements do you take now daily?

yup....2 years ago i had a spasm in the back of my L thigh when i tried to sit down..no known reason, then tripped with the same foot, coming out of the pharm from picking up a script for flexeril, caught the toe of the foot on those mats they put out to catch sand, spraining my ankle. My (soon-to-be-ex_ PCP) decided that since i fell it must be MS and was going to do a lumbar MRI, but ins. wouldnt accept his exam. So, off to neuro who ordered the MRI and Emgs, neither of them gave enough info to confirm anything....did PT, for what i feel was primarily the results of the sprain(nasty sprain, missed a week of work, never put off work for a sprained ankle and i have had several!)
Before this event, maybe 10 to 14 days, had pulled a shopping cart over onto the outer aspect of my lower L leg, about 2-3 inches below my knee, right about where the peroneal nerve comes out from behind the knee. Really painful, and dandy bruise, but no noted deficeit. Also sat on a hard stool, to surf the net, which caught about where the spasm occured/occurs in the back of the thigh. So i am thinking double crush, and i mention to neuro, and he has no better idea. So after all that time and money, no real answer.
the superficial numbness never went away, sometimes there are painful spots, mostly not, the back of the thigh can spasm to the point of screaming and swearing on my part and i do have a good tolerance for pain. since i had issues in sitting to drive more than 20 miles or so (2 years ago, and resurfacing now) I am thinking ?piriformis syndrome...need to stretch, but i dont know why unless it is simply age? always was flexible, actually too flexible.
supp presently:
B complex
B12
C&E combo, needs a refill
curcumin 3x dailey
co Q 10
Vit D
Vit A
chromium picolinate
zinc with copper
just ran out of fish oil
calcium, had been taking 1 with ea meal, was suggested i take 2 before bed
when a bone spur was suggested in my shoulder. have been "using up"
some that are old, should i just throw those and go with the new ones?
juice plus vegi/fruit supplement

i only have been really adhering to this since the hamstring tear....at home, no excuses....before it was hit or miss, do eat bananas,prob3-5 per week.
sensitive to magnesiums lax effect....dont have spasms or tics regularly anywhere else (some in the R leg, but it is healing)
thanks in advance pabb

I think you need magnesium
 

right away. Too much calcium with no balance of Mag, and you get spasms.

The large muscles show this first, because they use the most.

You can get mag from food. I am sensitive to the laxative effects too. I use SlowMag and sometimes Ionic fizz (where you can control the dose as it is a powder.)

But magnesium sources in food always work for me.
Unsalted almonds --3oz have 270mg
beans (navy etc)
Edamame beans
yogurt
oatmeal

These are good sources. When you have too much calcium with little mag to balance it, you get spasms.
If you can get in and out of the tub, soaking in epsom salts also helps, but it will not provide all the magnesium you need.

Stay away from magnesium oxide. It is not absorbed and causes loose stools. See my magnesium thread on Vitamin forum for more details. Bone spurs come from imbalances in calcium and magnesium. Low mag leads to spurring, some doctors believe.

Sitting on hard surfaces always bothers my muscles too.
Stools are hard on the body. I'd stop using any stool type chair, and don't sit on cement walls, steps either.

You will laugh at this, but putting a bar of Ivory soap under your fitted sheet in the bed, may help leg cramps. Some of us have been doing this for a few months now successfully.
Melody's thread on Social discusses this:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/sh...ighlight=Ivory

I think the soap is absorbing some compounds given off by the body that if blocked while lying down, cause muscle spasms. Don't laugh. It would cost you about .35 to try it.

i would have thought of the mag, too, if it were symetric.....and since i have had a couple go rounds with restless leg i will try the soap too....
the question about the B12 was d/t the injury on that side......las noc the spasms were flexion rather than extension.....so walking it out was nt even as effective. this does only happen lying down (99.9%)....which of course screams "back" issue.....but i see a chiro reg. I do almonds freq, just not regularly in the sense that i could quantify......i think i will splurge....and tub baths are no longer something i can do, with the rotator cuff, i can't use the arm to get out........to soak my feet and lower legs would entail sitting on the edge of the tub, not doable at this time, and i cant carry that much water to any sitting surface......again the shoulder issue, so it will have to be inside out,lol. When i first inj the hamstring i gave myself diar. with the cal sup, mag ox 450-600 mg a day ,lol.. it was better than being constipated though.
but even then i was having spasms in the L leg. The degree of spasm in the foot is new, 7-10 days.......oh well only took half the B12 this am, will see if it makes any difference, though my schedule will be off, going to work 11-7 tonoc........will do a little shopping today...i had mag delay but i think it "expired" so i threw it.....how bout the calcium that i do have that is old 2006 old....should i throw that too? i have new....just trying not to waste.
thanks pabb

mag ox...
 

When you take mag ox orally you get about 8mg absorbed.
That is the amount in an egg.

It is NOT enough. You need 350-400mg a day ABSORBED.

And yes, you can have asymmetric cramping. If your circulation is not good on one side, less blood supply, more demand (you are favoring your injured leg) etc.

There is a nice adjustable shower stool that fits in a tub. I bought mine at Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/Duro-Med-522-1...7892141&sr=1-3

It has been a life saver and way less expensive than the bath chairs in hospital supply stores locally.
You can sit on it comfortably and soak the legs in the tub,
Which is what I do. (my adductor injury precludes getting in and out of a tub anymore). It is very sturdy, and does not corrode!

There is also a magnesium cream:
http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/ViewProdu...ct_ID@124.aspx

You can rub this into the muscles but it is more pricey this way.

In a pinch I have made epsom salt soaking cloths and put them on my knee (on vacation-- where there is no bathtub)
This works, if you use a concentrated solution, and several applications, leaving them on for 10 minutes each. This is more time consuming, but it did work on my knee one summer.
You could make these compresses in the sink and sit on the toilet seat cover.. and not need to carry any heavy pans around.

Which ever way you choose, I think you will find huge changes with magnesium.

If you have poor circulation in that left leg, then oral mag cannot get to the endpoints in the tissue. So some heat on the back of the thigh, (not really hot) may improve that.
Too much heat, and for longer than 20 min actually stimulates nerve pain for many people..and causes a pain loop of worse symptoms.

i was wondering about compresses....i will try that too.
frankly i think that it was an untreated hamstring issue on the left and i now have scar tissue in there......which also could be impeding circ......and i think i will pursue another set of emgs on the legs.....take care

Hi Pabb:

How much B-12 do you take every day? I just puchased another bottle from iherb.com because today is cyber Monday and I only use their Jarrow's formula 5000 Methyl b-12 and I got it for the total sum of $17.01(includes shipping). I went to every other vitamin online place and this was the best deal for me (because I've tried other brands, and they don't work for me like the Jarrow's formula).

Also, DO TRY THE SOAP. It works wonders. lol

Take care,

Melody

argh....i bought some mag64....didnt look at the label until after i openned it....they now make a mag64 with calcium...yup that is what i ended up with....i thought Ma+ and Ca+ should be taken separately? or am i misremembering? any way, bought some almonds too and had some of those (1/4 cup= 20% daily req.) no overt spasms last noc....the l thigh is still tight...gave me a run on sunday noc....first time in a while....and the foot also no cramp/spasm.......went back up on the B12 will see how it plays out.
have yet to buy soap....lol., i can only use castile to wash with and the last time i bought some, the only form i could find was liquid...lol

all of the SlowMags have
 

a small amount of calcium in them. Only about 22-25% of calcium swallowed is absorbed, so it is not much.

I doubt it will make a difference.

Once you get your mag stores back up, you will notice
when mag levels go down clearly.

I think you are on your way to relief.

You don't have to touch the Ivory... it just sits there.

ugh, had some low key spasm in my ankle at work last nc...not to the point of actual pain.....will see how the horizontal time goes , today....

Hi pabb,

You might want to try Carlson's chelated magnesium:
http://www.amazon.com/Carlson-Labora.../dp/B00014D2DW

My mom was taking huge amounts of magnesium oxide per doctors orders, and was still always low. I had her switch to this, and she was never low again. The type made a huge difference for her, although she hated these pills as they are BIG.

They also make a Cal-Mag combo~
http://www.vitacost.com/Carlson-Chel...F-088395054723

The functional medicine doc that helped us with my daughter said the chelated forms of magnesium, such as magnesium glycinate, are the most absorbable. He wanted her to have a total (including whatever was in multivitamin) of 500-600mg daily.

well, i do hate to be wrong, usually, but NOT THIS TIME!...no spasms, other than the arch of the foot, which i think is reasonable considering i have high normal arch, am carrying way too much weight and am on my feet for my job. ...and only once when i first got into bed....NOTHING for the rest of the sleep period....feeling oddly weak in that distribution.....but not falling...so presume that it is a dysesthesia, my new word, lol....and i will check out the carlsons ma+ supp thanks....
ps. of course, this now begs the question of what the issue is with that leg...and what they missed when it was being treated two years ago.....argh..when the EMG's were NORMAL, by the way.....

that spasms in the foot remain
 

so far suggest a circulation issue. Perhaps with time as the larger muscle groups soak up what they need, the balance of the mag will move down into the feet as well.

Keep the feet warm, and soak them in epsom salts if you can.
This will fix that problem faster.

Your heart, blood pressure, biochemical metabolism of fats,
sleep/anxiety, and bones will all benefit from the proper availability of magnesium now. 7 out of 10 people in this country are estimated to be consuming less than the RDA for this mineral. And stress, drugs and disease states deplete it further.

I am glad you are on your way. Choose whatever supplement you want, except for magnesium oxide.

when i get a new PCP on board, i will be working on this issue....i do remember that my mom was low in ma+ and i had an uncle who died in his sleep, i suspect a cardiac dysrythmia......both drank....but my mother very little in the last 15 years or so and that is when the ma+ level i saw was done. So this makes a mystery....does low Ma+ come from Etoh abuse, or possible a part of the drive to it?....what ever it would seem it may be familial, since i take no meds...routinely.

serum magnesium tests are
 

not a good indicator until drastically low amounts are present.

They do not test intracelluar mag levels at all.

The studies on magnesium and migraine on PubMed explain this to some extent...that even with "normal" serum levels, high dose mag worked to reduce migraine in children.

By the time it is so low, to show up the heart may be severely impacted. A colleague at work had his sister in law have a crisis of this type, hers was induced by high dose diuretics.

Diabetics lose magnesium in the urine. Stress also does it.
And any diuretic, including caffeine and alcohol also contribute.
http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/965927519.html

In fact Dr. Jay Cohen MD has a book about it:
http://jaycohenmd.com/books.html

I often visit Dr. Cohen's website...he is very very good IMO.