Very Concerned Mum
 

Hi everyone thank you for taking the time to read my post :)

From a very early age, I have had concerns about my now 4 and a half year old son, and his latest episode of rage has pushed me to seek help. A joke by a dear friend today that my son is "totally Bi-Polar", saw me seeking some serious information on the issue, in turn leading me here. I seek the opinions of parents with Bi-Polar children as to whether my concerns are very real, and if I should seek the advice of a professional. I will certainly do so in any event, should I believe my son is a danger to himself, or others.

Let me start by saying that my son has always been disciplined for unacceptable behaviour in what I believe to be a fair and consistent manner. Despite this, his behaviour has always been horrendous to the point that the other children in the street are not allowed to play with him. Yes, I am guilty of picking my battles however, he has never gotten away with the big issues or been spoilt.

He is so easily frustrated by the smallest misunderstandings, or by being too excited to get his words out fast enough. He obsesses over things like a new toy, and if he can't have it right now he becomes incredibly frustrated. He will try any which way to obtain it, and will not give in until he does. This can last for several weeks until someone finally buys it for him. He will even lie to family members saying things such as "Mum wanted to buy it for me, but she had no money and it made her sad that she couldn't". For a week after we got new neighbours, my son unprovokedly yelled "somebody help me, she is hurting me, somebody help" and once told the lady over the back fence "I am so hungry mum wouldn't give me any breakfast or lunch and I'm starving". As embarassing as these things are, they are the least of my worries, but you can understand how socially isolated I am becoming as his fabrications become increasingly creative.

If my son suspects he's caught out in a lie, he will try to manipulate the situation. If called on it, he will explode with the most vicious, hurtful things he can muster. If he isn't satisfied with the reaction he receives, he will seek out any valued posessions, and destroy them, or attempt to. I am constantly astounded by his intelligence. If only he would use his powers for good!! It is so hard to believe such a young child could be so coldly calculating and deliver these remarks and actions with such intent. He will say "go on, cry mummy, cry". Any kind of sadness or hurt he sees only seems to provoke him more. When asked at times why he's done something, like pull out plants or scratch the new tv or tip out a new bottle of shampoo he will say "because I wanted to make you cry".

In saying that, within 30 seconds he will at times feel overwhelming despair. He will sit down and cry and say things like "I'm stupid, I can't do anything right". My son is far from stupid and has been leaps and bounds ahead developmentally from the age of 6 months. I constantly reassure him, even when he's not feeling down. I provide huge amounts of praise and rewards for good behaviour, which he thrives on.

I am deeply troubled by his anger. He has been violent since he could lift a bottle. He will have fits of rage which can last for hours, almost an entire day at times. During these rages he will physically shake with anger, scream, and turn bright red. He has started punching doors or walls and I've had to restrain from hitting himself in the head or face more than once :'( He once tried to smash his bedroom window which scared the life out of me. What if I hadn't heard the first strike at the glass? What if he had succeeded?

My son dearly loves his pets but we've learnt that he can't be left unsupervised for a second. Take him to feed the ducks and he will try to hit them in the head rather than feed them, fairly normal for a little boy I suppose! Throwing stones at butterflies also pretty normal but trying to seriously injure or kill puppies, cats, birds or lambs is not. He can be so gentle and kind one minute, and so cold the next. We are from a rural area, he's always been exposed to animals and not only does know better, he would never dream of hurting an animal 80% of the time.

Last year my son was hospitalised to have his tonsils removed. When the nurses needed him to take some paracetamol his reply was "if you make me I will kill myself". He literally cannot stand being told what to do. He constantly calls people, including me, "stupid" and "idiot" and genuinely means it. He truly thinks that at 4 years old he knows better than me or any adult. This may sound somewhat strange but at times he will speak to me in great disdain. He continues to spit on me even though he is disciplined every time.

I'm sorry this is such a novel but to be honest I don't have much of a support network. Most of my family and friends stopped visiting and the rest think my son behaves this way because he is spoilt or let run amok. I assure you this is not the case.

Today my son, in a fit of rage, told me that when I go to sleep tonight, he is going to take one of my knives and stab himself in the heart because he wants to die :'( I can't for the life of me work out why such a thing would cross his mind. I love him more than anything in the world and I have learnt to deal with his behaviours- what I can't bare is him being so troubled and unhappy. Surely a small child could not harm himself in this way? I'd much rather not take that risk and I've locked anything sharp in my car but obviously I'm hugely troubled by this announcement.

What I hope to gain from this post is some advice on whether you relate to any of this. Am I imagining ANY malicious intent behind his behaviour? To date this is the only answer I've gotten when appealing to family for advice. The incidents I've mentioned are far from isolated and there are many other concerns I have.

Thank you again for reading and I very much look forward to your input.

I'm so sorry that I don't have any answers for you, but your post has really touched my heart.

I can't even begin to understand what you've been through with your son, but I wanted to reach out and tell you that you're no longer alone. :hug:

Welcome to NeuroTalk Miss Positive. If your screen name is indicative of your will-power, then you will get through this stressful time with your son.

I do hope that some-one with some answers will come along soon and help you out.

Hello and welcome to NeuroTalk. I'm impressed by your user name as you really have been through so much with your son and at such a young age, too. He sounds much older than his years. I empathize so much with your situation....I cannot imagine how much it must trouble you to watch your child struggle so. I'm sure someone will come along with some good advice for you. I just wanted to welcome you to the group and let you know that you and your son are in my prayers.

Thank you both for your kind replies :)

They say a problem shared is a problem halved, and though I'm not convinced, I am certain surrounding yourself with strong, positive and kind people can only improve any situation.

As I mentioned, my support network is really very poor these days so your kind words mean more than you know!

I feel somewhat guilty bringing up these issues when we have so much to be grateful for. Despite our obvious problems, I think I'm the luckiest person around having such a clever little man in my life :) He really is the most wonderful little boy, so bright and kind, things aren't always bad.

Although I know nothing about BP, knowing what it's like to be in need of a bit of support, I hope I can perhaps give back to this group in a small way.

There is information at the Child and Adolescent Bipolar Foundation (http://www.cabf.org) and the Bipolar Child ( http://www.bipolarchild.com/ )

Funny how a chance remark by a friend (or even a stranger) can be so revealing.

Jaspar

From the time my oldest son was born until he was 6 1/2 years old life was a nightmare. Even saying that today makes me feel guilty, but it was.

My child NEVER stopped crying. He NEVER slept for more then about an hour at a time. I was convinced he had broken a bone during birth because it wasnt a "hold me; feed me" type cry - it was a high pitched SCREAM that would last until he exsausted himself and he fell asleep for a short time. The doctors said colic.

At 6 1/2 months he started crawling - and life took another turn. Now, he could crawl around and get to the things that caught his attention - so the screaming constantly went to screaming from pure exsaustion because he COULD NOT stop moving - ever. Sleeping was still next to never. He hated being confined to the car seat - so I couldnt even drive around to get him to sleep.

When he started walking, things seemed to improve a tiny little bit. He still could not sit still to save his life, but the hours and hours of crying slowed down a bit. He replaced it with anger. For no apparent reason, he would get angry and throw himself down on the hardest floor, sidewalk, or area he could see and bang his head repetedly. We were unable to leave him alone because he would draw blood from doing this if someone wasnt RIGHT there to stop him.

I went back to the doctor and just cried, begging him to figure out what was wrong. The first doctor was convinced we were idiot parents who were not living up to their job. I swear on the lives of everyone I have ever cared about that this was not the case. The next doctor observed and stated that he was showing early signs of ADHD. Because he was injuring himself, the doctor wanted to research some safe medication and start him on it. (he was 2) This is when I hit the books and started researching on the web.

I studied every single thing I could FIND on ADHD. Two things stood out very clearly to me. 1. ADHD kids do not go 8 days without sleeping and 2. do not fly into a fullblown rage that can last just as long.

He was extremely intelligent - was reading books unassisted at age 3, figured out football (to the utter pride of his father) at 4. He would bounce around the room and watch a game and be able to call the plays, etc. etc. But he could not hold a pencil, coloring would throw him into a rage, and a game of Pick Up Sticks I purchased ended up broken in half within ten minutes. (Still to this day, writing is a trigger for him.)

More doctors, no help. When he started Kindergarten he got a godsend of a teacher that concentrated on his strengths and didn't draw much attention to the weaker areas. He rarely "sat" to do his work, but it worked out well. At home things were still chaotic. At one point he was so exsausted and out of control he picked up a 30inch tv and dropped it . It was more then double his body weight. I hit a brick wall at that point and had no clue what to do knowing full well that it was critical that something be done...

Things got worse at school. Things got worse at home. My marriage was starting to go downhill, as dad and I had not had a full nights sleep in 6 years. We couldnt hire a babysitter because no one else knew how to handle him. Friends drifted away, kids from school quit coming over, and we were still no closer to finding any answers.

Long story short, one day when I was in the process of personal breakdown, I saw a commericial on TV for a behavioral center 3 hours away from us that specialised in diagnosing children with "behavioral issues". (and I still thank whatever higher power interviened that day.) I laugh about it now, but I watched the commercial, wrote down the address, threw both kids in the car and started driving without even calling the number. The commercial had described my son to the letter. When I got there I walked up to the receptionist desk in tears, told her I'd seen their commercial, and desprately needed help. They were booked solid, but the doctor agreed to see us on his lunch hour since I felt the situation was critital enough to drive 3 hours without an appointment (and the fact I was bawling and begging for help didn't hurt either I'm sure) We ended up staying the night there in a hotel (my husband was a bit in shock when I called to tell him where we were lol) but the next day I was handed the early onset bipolar dx. It fit.

We started him that night on a very low dose of Zyprexa. And that night he got the first full, good night's sleep he had ever in his life had. We were in shock. I remember that I did not get a wink of sleep that night because he had NEVER slept before, and I was scared to death the medication was hurting him...

I still remember what he said the next morning when he got up. "Mommy, I dont feel stupid anymore. My hands do what my head tells them to do." It was a miracle; and one that I will never forget. He looked so peaceful and beautiful that morning.

Its been a long, rough haul, but my child (now 12) is now successful, happy, able to make and maintain friends, and best of all, PROUD of himself. For us, the medication saved not only my son, but myself, my marriage, and my family. Of course, we still have our ups and downs, our good days and bad days, hurdles and challenges, but we are all much better at handling things as they come up.

My son is still very easily overwhelmed and is extremely impulsive, but he's a different child! The severe outbursts of anger and minipulation are gone, the feelings of "i wish I were dead" are a thing of the past, and he is now just a normal pre-teen boy successfully living with a disability.

As for a support network, if you need help locating resources, support groups, and services in your area let me know! I turned the experiences with my son into a degree and career and run a non profit center for children with mental health disorders.

Welcome to the board. :)

Bdix I very much relate to some things you have mentioned!!

Sleep has always been a HUGE issue. He did not sleep for more than 20mins at a time for the first year. Doctors told me it was Colic, then reflux. Nothing helped. I resigned myself to the fact that no new mums get enough sleep. He did not sleep for more than 2 hours until 6 months ago. A year ago a Specialist decided it was his tonsils causing him to wake, and promptly removed them. There was no improvement. It seems to be something he's finally grown out of BUT I still literally have to drag him out of bed each day like a grumpy old bear- no matter how much sleep he gets.

I also relate to the anger!! Not only did he start hurting himself when he was finally mobile, but hurting others. I didn't think too much of it, thought he was too small to understand but the older he gets and the more he understands, the more hurtful he becomes. He split my partner's head open with a glass at 2, split my lip weekly with anything within reach, would headbut when he couldn't do nothing else, bite, kick, headbut walls. He actually made my partner black out once by trying to choke him :( He genuinely thinks one night he will wake up with my son standing over him about to kill him and believe it or not, he threatens it regularly.

EVERYTHING is a battle, every day. Getting up, getting dressed, every meal, bathing, getting dry, bedtime stories, going to sleep, grocery shopping (forget any other kind of shopping). I've slowly gotten used to this and learnt what not to say or do to make matters worse, but if we're in a hurry to go somewhere we either can't make it or it's WW3.

He can be such a sweet, happy little boy when he wants to be but I am starting to suspect that he really does hate me :( Nothing delights him more than being as hurtful as he can. When he is screaming that he hates me I always respond with "well I love you" and he only gets angrier and he will say "no you have to hate me" but no matter what he says or does, I could never!!

Does anyone know where I can go or who to talk to in NSW Australia? I read an article last night (I can't post links yet but please let me know if you'd like to take a look) and the likelihood of getting professional help does not sound promising for us. Quote: "Every kid's mood goes up and down during the course of the day", "The response from most of the rest of the world is that the Americans have gone hysterical." This is in part the same attitude I've been met with when we've mentioned any of this to anyone reliable like grandparents etc. It's very disheartening when we know something is very wrong.

Thank you for the links Jaspar, much appreciated and I'll take a look at these now.

I've never had to look in a different country, but I'l make some calls and see what I can come up with! Could you post a city, or specific area to look? (Im guessing that I will be asked this.)

In the meantime, please look up the book "The Bipolar Child" and get yourself a copy. This is the parents bible to bipolar children. (and dont get worried when it sounds like they have hidden cameras in your home lol; the book is THAT good.)

I will attempt to find someone with information on Australia's mental health community in the morning. :)

Hello and welcome to NeuroTalk. Great to see you have come to be with us. Just let us know if we can be of any help. We are all here to assist each other as possible.

Again welcome, looking forward to seeing you around.

Darlene :hug:

Hello. I hope things start turning around for you.
 

Dear Miss Positive,

I hope it is ok if I jump into the conversation here.

I am up late and doing some google research for NSW.

Bipolar exists all over the world. The World Health Organization does periodic studies on the numbers of people dealing with this in various countries / continents.

Here is a bipolar web site for New South Wales, Australia:
~ http://www.bipolar.com.au/support/

~ Also google "SANE Australia."

~ Also google "The Black Dog Institute."

~ Here is a psychiatrist I found at Prince of Wales Hospital who specializes in Mood Disorders:


This site has lots of Australian links.
I hope that you can find a few that are very helpful:

~ http://www.allenandunwin.com/livingw...resources.html
Living With Bipolar: USEFUL ORGANISATIONS, WEBSITES AND BOOKS


Here is one from the above site that looks particularly useful:
~ Kids Helpline www.kidshelpline.com.au

In the US -- as you can see from Bobi's amazing story -- psychiatrists are slow to diagnose childhood bipolar.
I don't know what it is like in NSW, but certainly you can find 1) people who share your situation and are willing to offer support, and 2) psychiatrists who can treat childhood bipolar.

I wish you luck in your journey for treatment.

Please know that treatment works. The hard part of bipolar -- as you might already know -- is getting the diagnosis. Once you get the diagnosis, you are most of the way to your son's path to wellness.

Please remember to seek support for yourself.
I have no children and have no idea how it would feel to go through what you describe.
But I do want to wish you well as move you along your own path to healing as you find effective treatment for your son.

Mari

I would start here.
Child & Adolescent Mental Health 9382 4347
Family counselling, group programs, parent education,
individual counselling, medication

NSW Department of Health
(apparently they have a children and adolecent mental health referral program)
Street address:
73 Miller Street
North Sydney NSW 2060
Telephone:
02 9391 9000

MOOD DISORDERS SUPPORT GROUPS
(Also have referral and provider list information)
Mental Health Information Service - 1300 794 991
email - info@mentalhealth.asn.au

WAYS Youth Services 9365 2500
Waverley Action for Youth Services (WAYS)
Comprehensive service for young people 11–25yrs.
Services include education, recreation, outreach,
counselling, employment and case management

Multicultural Disability Advocacy
Association of NSW 1800 629 072
• We work together with people with disability,
families and the community to promote, protect and
secure the rights and interests of people from a non
English speaking background with a disability and
their families and carers across NSW
• Education and training/support groups

ps:
Don't ever think he hates you. He may say it, he may even feel it at times, but he doesnt. I remember feeling that exact same way day after day. What it is is a child who has never been able to hold a normal thougth process, deal with things and have the ability of maintaining control, and dealing with all of that anger and confusion without understanding why or being able to process a way to fix it. He is frustrated, scared, angry, lonely, and depressed all at the same time, and - old saying but very true - misery loves company. He needs help, and is extremely lucky to have a mum that is determined to get it for him! Just you wait! A year from now you will be here encouraging new parents going through exactly what you have, and sharing your family's story of the road from hell to stablity!

Mari thank you so much for taking the time to find/post this info. My google skills are not what they could be!

I have a lot of research to do and calls to make today :)

What a fantastic community of warm and supportive people I am so glad to have found you and grateful you've all made me feel so welcome.

Bobi I have sent you a pm and thank you again for these contacts.

Hi again everyone. The time difference sees me posting at such odd hours. It's 8.45pm Wednesday night here and one of those rare moments of peace :) Just thought I'd post a bit of an update.

After every REALLY bad day, we usually have a couple of good/fair ones and yesterday was fantastic :) We had such a great time building pop stick creations (even if his were "weapons", the paint work was good :)). I had hoped today would be another fair day and wanted to enjoy it while it lasted before making the necessary calls- I feel like such a fool.

This afternoon I had to take a bathroom break and on my return, my dear little boy, who not an hour before, had been lovingly spoon feeding his pup, had snuck out the back and had the poor thing pinned to the ground punching it repeatedly :( It was not entirely the vicious act that made me cry, but the cold smile on his face while he was doing this. Call me a horrible mother, but for a fleeting second I actually wished that poor pup would turn and bite him!

I am so committed to making as many calls as needed in the morning. In the meantime, I wonder how much small boys are going for on ebay... it's been such a trying evening I could be tempted tonight!! I am of course only joking, I do that when I'm feeling a bit down. Sometimes if we don't laugh we can only cry ;) I still wouldn't part with him for all the money in the world, heaven knows why :o

I can remember so many times that I was almost scared of what my son was capable of. I also remember during the "nice" times how guilty I felt about thinking something was wrong with him; but there was and deep down I always knew it. Sometimes I'd even be afraid to enjoy the good times because I knew a bad time was right around the corner. (And when my younger son was born I was scared to death; but thankfully he was always kind to his brother) And then during those times where his behavior would push me over the edge and I'd be harsh with him I'd spend the next week feeling horrible because I also knew that he could not control what he was doing....vicious circle.

The popsicle sticks project sounds fun! My son hated to do anything that required fine motor at that age, but I remember we used to do a lot of playdoh activities and a lot of cooking in the kitchen. You will have so many more peaceful activity time with him once they start him on treatment.

By the way, do you journal everything that happens every day? This is a huge help to the doctor. Each time he acts out (anger, sobbing, or cruelty) write down the time, what he was doing right before that, and what happenend while he was out of control. This really is a huge help.

You sound upbeat about the calls in the morning! Thats great! You will get answers soon!

My now 18 year old was a difficult, brilliant and multi-fascited little boy. He is now a very fragile, bipolar young adult.

I never thought in my life that a toddler would truly be bipolar, but now I know better. We had similar adventures when my son was as small as yours. We didn't get help until he was 12 and had his first psychotic episode.

My time is not my own, and I do not usually post, but I want you to know the information and support from these loving people is always well thought out and the best you can get anywhere.

Hang in there momma! You are an amazing woman. And this little man was brought to you to raise because YOU are the one to make the difference that will help him learn to be a young man who happens to have bipolar disorder and also is going to have a wonderful life. I feel that deeply.

May help
 

Hi,

My heart goes out to you - It is extremely hard to see someone you love go through so much pain.

I don't know if this will help you but I'll tell you our story. Excuse me if I waffle a bit.

My husband is hyper-bipolar and was diagnosed when he was 21. He's currently medicated. When I met him he was not properly medicated and his moods used to fluctuate quite a bit. To cut a long story short it took him a few years to find a medication that agreed with his body.

When my daughter was born, naturally I was concerned that she might be bipolar too and was, and still am, always on the look out for signs. She never slept as a baby and never ever stopped moving. Then the crying started and just never ever seemed to stop. Again to cut a long story short, I put her on a gluten free diet, which eventually turned into a gluten-free and soy-free diet and since I had to cook everything I also eliminated preservatives. Since this day I have never looked back. I have a happy little daughter.

The wonderful thing was that as our house was a gluten, soy & preservative free house my husband episodes have decreased significantly. It took my husband a good 6 months to stop eating them and realise the connection (he loves his food!). My daughter has managed to get her hands on other kids sandwiches a few times in daycare and it's immediately obvious. She turns into a nasty little thing, with temper tantrum and real mood swings.

We've been on this diet for 1.5 years now and it seems to work for us. My husband and daughter's intolerance to soy seems to run in his family. There is alot of research out there regarding eliminating gluten and casein from your diet (we still eat casein as it doesn't seem to be a problem). My sister is a dietician and she said that this research has now been dismissed. My answer to her - come live in our house - bring your gluten/preservatives with you and see the effect.

3 years ago I never gave a thought to what I put in my body. Food intolerances may be worth a look into for you. It is very very hard at first and very frustrating. The diet my husband has does not replace his medication, it compliments it. My husband and daughter have found the results rewarding. I often wonder if I've gone to extreme measures in eliminating these things from their diet, but you can only do what you believe is best.

I hope this helps in some way. If you do need any more info please let me know.

Cheers,

Lisa

i can relate
 

ok when i was 12 years of age i would go ito fits of rage too all my mom would do is ignore them until i was calm enough to talk then we would talk about what was making me angry andwe would fix it together so try that if it dosent work tell me what happend ill be glad to help some more