How can you be depressed if you already take antidepressants?
 

Friends, I do feel myself getting increasingly depressed as days go by. Every day I feel myself slipping further and further into a funk. More and more, I feel less and less useful to my family, my home, my job...etc. I hurt SO BAD and I can barely do anything once i get home from work. I just cry, head up to my room, turn on the tv, change into my jammies, and lay in bed. SO brings me dinner and helps me shower and it's off to sleep we go - eventually, and only IF the pain lets me.

But I take the MAXIMUM effexor allowed. Not for depression, but it's what helps my burning pain. So if I already have an antidepressant in my medication regimine, then what??? I certainly DON'T want to be sent to see the counselor at the pain mgt clinic...and if I tell them this is what I'm going thru, that's what they'll do. I've already been thru that whole thing, and don't want to do it again. I know what I have to do, but I dont' WANT TO. I just want to be allowed to feel like a failure for a while. I want to be allowed to cry, to feel miserable, to feel sorry for myself, ya know? I've held up and been strong all this time...and right now I just don't FEEL LIKE IT!

Why are we not allowed to act like we REALLY FEEL? WITHOUT being told we have to see a shrink or something? And why is it that we can feel this way when we're already on the maximum antidepressant dose allowed?

Then again...maybe i'm just going thru a "thang" and I'm just THINKING this is how I feel...I don't know...sigh....

Ignore me if you want. Thsi just may be babbly. I'm not too sure of much anymore at the moment.

I was just thinking if the ad is helping with the pain maybe another one is needed for the actual depression..??

I'm not all up on meds or that sort of thing - but maybe one works more pain wise for you and a different one would work better for the depression?

(((lisa)))

there are ad's like cimbalta that treat pain and depression. ( not saying you need cimbalta..giving an example)

sometimes you have to change if they aren't working enough for you anymore.

the members who post on the depression may know more about the meds.

Hi Lisa,
 

Are you taking anything else like Neurontin or Lyrica for the burning/Pain?? I take Neurontin and dont know what I'd do with out it. I know that some on the forum have been through several anti-depressants before they find one that works for both the pain and depression.Cymbalta seems to be a favorite, or at leastone that came up frequently on the old forum.

Some days I feel the "I want my life back Blues" as I call them, and they are so overwhelming. I have to let myself cry and hurt, because if I don't I find myself slipping into that horrible place you are describing.

When I first brought it up on the forum, everyone here was so supportive and encouraged me to grieve for the old life, for the things I've had to give up, for the feeling of life passing me by, for feeling useless and worthless and misunderstood. It really has helped me to let go of the emotional pain. I am not one to cry, and feel like I always have to put my brave face out there for everyone else. In fact I worry more about others feelings than my own!

Dr. Ellis says that is very common with TOS'ers. Seems like the majority of them are caretakers, type A's or other types that over extend themselves until they are empty or in pain, or both. Anyway, that description fits me!

I hope that you will allow yourself to grieve the things that you are hurting over and be okay with that. I personally don't think it means you have to go to therapy right away. Maybe allow yourself some time to see if things get better, and if they don't then think about seeking help?

I am sure others will post with their thoughts and words of encouragment. In the meantime, I think you should buy a big box of chocolates!! That always works for me !! :D

Take Care,
G~ :)

((((((Lisa)))))),

You're taking Effexor -- that's chemically the same as Cymbalta.

Sounds like it works that same for you as it did for me. *NOT*!! I actually got kicked out of the clinical trials a couple of years ago 'cause it didn't do a darn thing for the depression. But, it worked fantastically on my pain.

I wanted to take prozac in addition to the effexor -- I was told by the researchers that it was OK to do that.

I went to a new shrink a couple of months ago. This Fall was particularly bad for me because last month was the 40th anniversary of my Brother's suicide. Those "even" years hit hard for some reason. I didn't even realize that was why I was slipping into depression again.

I went to a new shrink. She upped my Effexor -- even though I didn't want to; I wanted the prozac "in addition to". The high dose of Effexor was like taking speed. I couldn't sleep at all. I was up all night and only took naps in the daytime. That was bad for my fibromyalgia -- because you HAVE TO sleep well or the pain gets worse.

So ... for one month of taking the maximum dose of Effexor XR, it took me about 6 weeks to ramp down to the lower dosage and get all my "insides" back to "normal" :rolleyes:

If you've got good pain relief from the Effexor, you might want to talk with one of your doctors about adding one prozac per day. The Effexor has two chemicals in it -- one is the same as the prozac -- so you're getting a lower dosage of that particular drug. If you take the high dosage of Effexor, you're getting a lot of adrenaline -- which is not great for mood leveling or for sleeping.

Talk to your doctor about ramping down the Effexor **SLOWLY** to the dose that you were taking before -- you can get horrendous withdrawal symptoms for months if you ramp down too fast. And ask to be put on one prozac in addition to the Effexor to see if that drug combination will work on your depression.

In the meantime, take care of yourself. Less *SHOULD DO* and less *MUST DO*. More *WANT TO DO*. Tea in china cups. Soup and sandwiches for dinner. Forget the housework. Grow some flowers or visit a flower shop. Treat yourself **SUPER SPECIAL** 'til you get a handle on this. Then you can ramp down to just treating yourself *SPECIAL* :p

Hugs.

Barb

Dear Lisa

Sorry you are feeling so down.... :(. ((hugs)). Firstly the psychologist in me wants to talk neurotransmitters....... depression can be caused/ affected by loads of chemicals, is likely that your drug (can't remeber name) is only helping get the correct balance with 1 or 2 chemicals not all of them. Also like pain drugs different drugs work for different people. Also - I'm not good at US names for drugs - but it sounds like you are on amytriptylene which is a tricyclic antidepressant which isn't overly effective in the treatment of depression....

I know I have down days - thats what I've had the last couple of days. When I realise I am going on a downer I give myself 3 days to feel dreadful and then I have to pull myself out of it. In those 3 days I can whinge as much as I want, refuse to do anything that hurts too much that can be avoided, eat as much chocolate as I want (lol....... luckily I am so nauseous I can't touch it!) etc and I let myself feel sorry for myself. I didn't learn that sometimes you just have to go "life is an absoloute &%£"£" and feel sorry for yourself because no one can stay strong forever. It just isn't possible. Sometimes you have to admit how hard this is to live with and what it has done to your life and how it has changed you.

Mini controlled depressions are GOOD as long as you have control when they start and you know you can pull yourself up again or have people who can help you to be happy again after a day or 2 of misery.

it's bizarre but it really does feel better once you have done it! a friend of mine has chronic pain too and we have this agreement that for 3 days we can moan as much as possible and give everything horrible a miss. But we then have to start normal timetable on day 4.. sometimes just a break from being strong makes such a difference.

Take care and hope things pick up soon!!!

Rxxxx

Thank you...ALL of you....
 

I think every single one of you has said something that has made absolute sense....

Last night when I got home from work, I went directly to my bedroom to watch tv as I have been doing all week. I was crying when my SO came up...and he laid down next to me and asked what was wrong...and when I told him I am just so upset that I am not who I used to be, but I feel like a SHELL of myself...a SHELL of the old me. he said, "Don't go there honey...don't feel sorry for yourself. That's exactly what you're doing. If you start that, you're going to go downhill really fast. Be happy for what you have, and don't look at what's wrong with your body right now. We have a great life, a great home, you're still able to work, the kid is better than most teenagers, and we have all of our dogs who love us and we love...so there is a lot to SMILE about, and much less to CRY about. Besides, you have a sexy man, too!" ;)

And I said, "Yeah, but what good is all of this if I can't ENJOY it cuz I hurt so much? What good is all of this if I can't pet and play with the dogs? Or I can't hug my son, or make love to you, or hold the fishing pole on the lake, or sit in the sun by the pond, or help with the housework, or have a hard time folding laundry, or, or, or..." and he basically said not to worry. When i'm having good days, I do participate in all of that. The doctor said once the weather evens out, my pain should even out. But the fact that Michigan can't decide wht the heck it wants to do is really taking a toll on me. One day it will be 70, the next we're getting a rain/show mix and 40 degrees. That really wreaks havoc with the pain. Just getting up an putting my robe on hurts. I have to get up an hour earlier than I would normally just so I can have time for my meds to kick in so I can start getting ready for work. I'm' told to be patient...but I'm TIRED of being patient. How much more freaking patient do I have to BE???? I'll go CRAZY before then!

For quite a while (perhaps a month???) now, I hven't been making dinner or doing much around the house. My SO's business is seasonal, he doesn't really work much past the end of September, about 3/4 in October, and it REALLY slows down in Nov. So he's been doing a lot of the "around the house" stuff. But he HAS been working SOME, and I've felt terribly guilty cuz he IS still working, and when he's not, he's getting things READY to do a job...so he's outside late - well, til about 9 pm - then he comes in and I'm just so depressed, I've been hiding in the bedroom, laying in bed since 5:30, watching TV or reading, and he ends up making dinner for us. I don't even want to eat...but he makes me. I wish he wouldn't. The med's make me NOT hungry. I'm gaining weight cuz we're eating so late. I'm depressed over that, too. he's afraid to even TOUCH me cuz he thinks he'll hurt me, so you can guess where our sex life is right now. Last night I stopped at this place on my way home from work that I've been eyeballing called entree' vous (check it out! There may be one near you and it's REALLY cool....you dont' have to take a class...you can pick up what they have there, frozen, or call in an order to pick up!) https://www.entreevous.com/public/ho...348B4A94A4C828 and picked up dinner....we still had to cook it, but it was awesome...but that's kinda how I contributed. It was still WORK for him though. So see....GUILTY!!! I used to do that, and he'd BRAG about my cooking. Now, he brags about the take out I pick up, or I brag about HIS cooking.

I think you have a GREAT handle on exactly how I am feeling, and EXACTLY what I am going thru right now. I believe this is exactly it. If I were only allowed to cry...allowed to be left alone in my bedroom for a week or so, and just ALLOWED to feel the feelings I want to feel without someone telling me "don't go there honey...think about the good stuff..." But the good stuff doesn't MATTER right now. I know that sounds silly...but it's TRUE. It doesn'tmake sense to anyone but me, I'm sure, but it really DOES make sense to me. The GOOD STUFF DOESN'T MATTER. All that matters is how pitiful I am and how worthless I feel right now. So let me dwell on that for a while and I'm sure I'll be fine as long as I'm allowed to feel it, absorb it, let it sink in, and mourn who I used to be. Can you call my SO and explain this to him? LOL!

Maybe that's it...but the burning pain is still being controlled by the effexor. Maybe this is just a "phase" - just me mourning my old life. Perhaps waiting and seeing if it will pass is the best option right now. If not, then talking to my doctor will be my next step...

I haven't really been depressed this whole time though...and I've been dealing with either TOS or RSD or both combined for over 7 years. So why now??? We'll see if this is a phase that passes. perhaps that's the best thing to do before I jump to a conclusion that I'm rally depressed.

You guys are ALL totally awesome. Thank you all from the bottom of my heart.





So...to answer some questions....I've already tried neurontin and lyrica - hated them both. Wellbutrin - I tried that when I was trying to quit smoking years ago and had a HORRIBLE reaction to it - gave me panic/anxiety attacks. Obviously I'm allergic to it or something. I thought I was dying! Heart raced, broke out in HUGE hives, etc. I was terrified! Cymbalta, I've never tried...but one of you said effexor is about the same. I'm afraid to try too many cuz many ad's have se's of weight gain...and if that's a se, I will SURELY get it. Effexor does't have that. I'm at the max of 300 mg's a day, and I take 150 in the am and 150 at lunch time cuz if I take it all at once, it upsets my stomach. I've never had problems sleeping cuz of it.

Depression with Anti-Depression?????
 

Lisa,
I feel for ya believe me! I live in PA and the freakin' weather is changing up and down like crazy and driving me nuts too. I am on a low dose of Zoloft and it has helped me alot in the past. I was sitting here day after day just crying at least three times a day. RSD and everything it does to every aspect of your life is depressing. I went into the doctor and told him I needed anti-depressants before I lost it. I have been on 12 mg for about a year or so now and it does work. However, I have noticed before my period is due I get REALLY more depressed and cry alot or if the weather is really bad. I think you are NOT a failure...you are my hero because you can go out to work all day;.> You are truly amazing to me. RSD affects EVERY part of your life. I have lost my entire family in the past 21 months with this full body RSD. My father died unexpectedly in March 06 and my older sister called me up and asked me not to bring my wheelchair because it would upset my mother!!! Can you imagine how hurt I was? I told her mommy is already upset and I really don't think she cares about anything right now except my father. I am sure you understand. I have used crutches for almost two years now and have the wheelchair for walking long distances. My family has denied everythng that has happened to me and isolated my son and I [he's 17 years old]. My son has even noticed it in the last year or so and brings it to my attention. I just tell him that our family consists of him,me, our cat, and our fish and no one else. Last month, my oldest nephew was married and I showed up with my crutches and in my wheelchair with my son cruising me all over [He is such a great son]. Everyone had to sit and watch all the pain I go through each day and I think then they realized what each day is like for me...hell! I have noticed in the last few weeks they seem more sympathetic towards my pain. FINALLY!!! So, take alot of time for yourself and do the little things in life like sit and watch the birds fly by, or watch the sunset but it sounds like work is too much for you and you really need to rest. I do understand how isolated you feel because I am the same way. I have been in bed for 21 months now and I kind of got used to it. My bed is like my tech center now. Everything revolves around it. I wish you the best of luck and vent to us here. We all have been in the same situation and if we help each other out we will all get through it together!!
Take care,
Kathy d.

You know, Lisa, I was thinking about you last night when I was scooting down to the grocery store. Had to get some cat food for the herd before the storm came.

I was telling you "simple suppers" and "let the housework go". You were saying that your hubby does all that.

Yeah, but, you haven't given up the "responsibility" for all that. That's why you feel so guilty now.

Look at it this way, sugar. Your primary job now is to get yourself well. In loving-caring relationships, there'll be give-and-take like that. He'll do stuff now because he can and you can't. One day, when you get your balance back, you'll be able to do for him. What you do for him won't necessarily be the same type of thing that he does for you.

There's no scale that balances tasks. One dishwash here, one trash-take-out there. The balance is in the loving and the caring and in the heart.

You do your part -- get your balance back and get yourself into a position where you feel more able to cope. It all works out -- if you let the guilt go.

BIG HUGS.

Barb

Hi, Lisa. I'm on Effexor as well and it is one of the few meds I could tolerate. Recently my pain specialist added 75mg of Nortriptyline which has helped me feel much better. Just thought I mention this as an option.

Well, there we go, all different - I tried Zoloft a while back, it did zilch. I seem to be best on low dose Neurontin and a pot of coffee (yes, I know I shouldn't..), though I wish I could find something to bridge the gap some days....this forum cheers me up, though, thanks all of you for being part of it. Some days I just really need it, ya know?

all the best :)

Lisa ,
I think you got some really excellent replies.

You can't live in the past ,you only have now .
Taking some time out to mourn is very valuable but you have to draw the line somewhere.It can't go on forever.
The reason that your case study worker will send you to counselling after x amount of time is that studies show that anti-depressants work more effectively in conjunction with counselling esp. if you are really symptomatic.
Anti-depressants aren't just a miracle drug on their own .They are usually recommended with counselling.Of course in cases with CP when health issues cause depression etc it is another game altogether but that does not change the significance of counseling if you need it.
Maybe you hated that counselor.
Is there another one you could try.
These days counselling isn't a forever commitment .
It may just help you get over this hurdle you are presently confronting in a quick and efficient manner instead of drawing it out forever-just a thought
( i have a few more:D )
If you are reading ,the Jon Kabat- Zin Book- Wherever You Go There You Are is particularly relevant right now - also all those meditation techniques people offered to you in the thread you posted .The book is not just about meditation but specifically about what the title says.Wherever you are now is your life- so learn how to love and accept it .(I paraphrase and not very well:D ).
Now more than ever it seems so appropriate.
And your husband sounds so supportive and loving ( a real keeper ) I think he will understand the concept of mouning the old ,what is lost and how to move forward in this new and different life.
He also sounds feminist at heart.He does not expect you to do all the "woman "chores.He is happy to share as he should be esp after you worked all day (even if you were not "injured") so welcome to 2006 ;) :D
Letting go of the past is an extremely important step in this whole process and the sooner you do it the healthier you will be- no matter how painful it seems to do it!
I was a professional athlete , type A the works like many of us ...and now.....You just can't live in the past once your life has been so radicaly changed .That is a recipe for depression and major confusion.
Your life has taken a huge U turn and to pretend to tackle the same challenges as the same person you were before is a huge obstacle to your progress and acceptance of current circumstance and self love.

I am not saying your heart and soul are not the same(probably stronger and even more sympathetic to other's) but your circumstance has changed and the sooner you accept that the easier it will be to deal with life's quirks and challenge's.I know much easier said than done.

I don't take any anti - depressants as I meditate and still exercise which releases more endorphins than any pill however I do know a little about it from my past.

Your recent depression seems to have crept up on you .Do you think it could have anything to do with the recent addition of provigil to your drug regimen?
I am just throwing that out there as we all know how a new drug can interfere with our already established drug protocols.
Frogga mentions that effexor is part adenaline and then to add provigil which keeps you awake( a very good thing at the wheel) well , you just never know chemically how the two are interacting in your body.
As depression is a chemical imbalance- some of us with a true chemical imbalance ;some disease caused and others caused by adding meds to their regimen ,we have to be particularly careful of the chicken egg theory.I would certainly discuss this with your doctor if there is a relationship between the two(addition of provigil to your already established protocol).
Such little tweaks can certainly mess with a chemical imbalance!!!!!!.

Another thought as you don't mention it... , have you tried topomax?
I have always been lean but I have heard that topomax is the perfect drug for those that are scared of the weight gain issues of neurontin etc.
(Hey , one less thing for you to worry about :) )
I had no side effects from day one and could titrate up to 400 mgs within a month but other people as with neurontin and the others- tegretol etc. have had their their share of side effects hence topomania - stupamax.
It has helped my burning tremendously!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is the one drug I would not want to be on a desert island without:p - plus I am never hungry which for me is NOT a good thing.I have to force myself to eat.
I don't recall the last time I had more than 1200 calories in a day.

I will leave you with my favorite new expression ( new meaning since I became this new improved person;) )

"Worrying will not change the outcome ."

so why worry ???The oucome will be the same whether you worry or not.
It just makes you more stressed hence more symptomatic and on and on...

I certainly hope you feel better.
You can't live in the fog forever so if it doesn't lift after x amount of time and if you aren't achieving what you set out to do please go to a Plan B
I certainly hope some of these good people's ideas' made some sense.

Much peace
GnP

Gee Barb....You went and made me cry! *sniffle!*

Thank you so much. I do feel much better today. Was having a pretty good "pain dnd the house. Made me feel kinda useful. That's all I need is to feel "useful" here and there, ya know?

And I heard SO talking on the phone to his mom...heard him say he doesn't mind making dinner ... so that made me feel better.

((((((Lisa)))))),

I'm glad you're feeling better :)

Barb http://chocolate-moose.p5.org.uk/MIN...ding-hands.gif

Thanks, GnP
I think my recent depression may be a combination of things...and mostly PMS :) Secondly, I know my SO gets tired of doing his stuff, PLUS add the stuff I'm usually responsible for on top of it, and I'm sure it's just too much for him soemtimes. He's one to always overexaggerate how "busy" he is all the time. He has his own business, works only 6 months a year, gets up at 9, to work by 10, home by 3:30 or so...yet he's sooooo busy whenever he talks to someoene. Knowing that about him, I just kinda fell apart for a while. I'm better today, after a weekend of laying on the couch, being lazy one day...then helping out a bit the next. I'm still not "me" but I'm also physically SPENT as well. A lot of that has to do with the darned restless legs not allowing me rest. I hate that.

I do take topamax at night before bed. And the provigil...i don't thinkt hat had anything to do with this bout of depression. I think it was hormonal. I HOPE SO anyway. It's just I think a lot of ppl are pushing me to get disability...yet I don't want to admit I'm worse than before. I'm not helping out so I dont feel I'm "worth" much anymore. I AM getting worse...not much better. The weathr sucks, and is sucking every bit of energy out of me that I had left. It is just a phase, at least I hope so.

I'll give myself until next weekend to "snap" out fo this. That will give me a nice 4-day weekend and I see the doctor on the following Monday. If I'm not out of this funk ny then, I'll talk to him about this.

I do appreciate all everyone has done/said to help me thru this. I knwo you have all been where I am at one time or another, so you can all understand. Nobdoy was quick to push me into counseling, but you WERE quick to "get me" whereas nobody in "real life" culd. All they asked was "are you on antidepressants? Maybe you need more!" In actuality, I think they worry about me....but I don't think they understand this "cycle of pain" we're all in sometimes includes this bout of depression that does go away after a bit.

Thank you all for being here for me...for EVERYONE really.

You're all fabulous.