does this bother anyone else like it does me
 

first howdy howdy all hope your holiday season is going well

Here in the swamp state of Illinois, we have yet another gov who is being possibly prosecuted for wrong doings.

First and foremost I must emphasize the importance of innocent till proven guilty. its one of the foundations to this gov. in 1762 the so called Boston massacre, which in turn was actually provoked by the colonist, no one would defend the soldiers in court and John Adams, some one admittedly oppose to England and all it stood for, was the only one who stood up for these soldiers, because they had already been called guilty with out a trail, and this was one of the major reasons the sons of liberty moved forward with our independence, all the unfair things the English were allowed to do on mere speculation. This being said, this is vital to our justice system, regardless of your personal feelings toward someone, INNOCENT till proven guilty.

a few lawyers not representing the Illinois Governor said so far all they have seen for evidence is hearsay. (granted they may not be privy to all the info) if this turns out to be false hearsay, the media and those involved have just ruin a persons life and also damaged the credibility of the state of Illinois

Third today the states attorney called for him to be removed, there is a reason for this, and its not because he is this or that,

Illinois has a 1.4 or 1.40 billion dollar bond issue pending, that they dearly need to help catch up on bills for medi aid and state programs that are 6 months behind. In order for this bond to be approved, there is one small stipulation, the Governor, the State Secretary, the States Attorney and the Treasurer all must be in office with out any legal proceedings pending or possible legal procedures pending.

Granted I could truly give a rats ***** what happens to Blod I did not vote for him and for a reason, but I will be the first to say this, a person in this country is innocent till proven guilty, do not forget this, it is vital to all of us to keep an open mind when dealing with legal issues.

Be glad you are not in France, you can go to jail forever without a legit trail and or until they have enough evidence to actually charge you, then try you.

i don't mean to preach but I worked for the post office for a long time as a carrier and unfortunately in our district you were guilty till proven innocent, this was the mind set of management, it bothered me a lot that they got away with it and still do, it also bothers me when someone famous or political is accused, they tend to be guilty thanks to sensationalism media coverage before they even get their Proverbial fair trail and day in court.

ok please send all hate mail to franksangel lol, seriously If I spark someone the wrong way with this, I am sorry but this country was founded on some basic and fundamental concepts and slowly we are letting some of them go by with no regard or the attitude of what diff can I make, well I am pretty sure this past election showed what a difference voting can make.

please do not turn this into a dem verse rep issue thread my point is the basic constitutional rights of the individuals, not whether this party is right or that one, thank you. I will ask Chem to close it if thread goes bad. thank you.

I agree Frank, that he should get a trial if it comes to that. I heard today on WGN radio that his lawyers think he'll beat the charges anway.

I wish he would resign though... His chief of staff did so today. Why would he resign if there wasn't some validity to all of this?

I also heard that if he resigns as opposed to being impeached, he might save his pension?

I know I've been guilty of calling him a snake here, and I shouldn't be doing that without knowing the whole story... :cool: :rolleyes: But... does anybody want to bet a nickel? ;)

I thought about that too, why did the one resign if innocent, makes you wonder

I certainly agree with you that a person is innocent until proven guilty. People's lives can be ruined when that is forgotten. Remember Patsy Ramsey? God rest her soul.

I'm sorry to say that I haven't been following this story closely. But I'm with you innocent until proven guilty. The media, whatever the story, can tend to go overboard and in the end can ruin someone's life.

I haven't been following the specific case or accusations...
but my thought is this,

He should step aside during and until any investigation is finished.
Hopefully the next in line to the governorship is not affected, if so then the next in line etc .. the chain of command thing.

Similar to police officers and others that get "paid" leave during an inquiry or investigation.

No way! My momma always told me a fools bet was a bad bet! :D

Frank, I get what your saying but I have to stand by my original comments to you and Deb that day you were here. A snake is a snake and can't be turned into a furry rabbit. I personally think he's guilty. The phone tapes alone with the f bomb being tossed around like it was candy by both Blago and his wife made me sick. I can't hold that against them, I've been known to drop a few f bombs myself. But to take from the children at Memorial Hospital, unforgivable. The tapes prove it was Blago saying those nasty things and to me that is enough to discredit him.

Plus it's in his eyes. lmao :p:p:p:p That boy is going down. :cool:

Signed,
A voter who voted twice for Blago.

PS: If there is anyone to feel bad for it is his children. They will take the brunt of this whole terrible situation.

I also believe innocent until proven guilty.

This probably runs deeper than any of us even know, and I think there needs to be some accountability for these politicians. It is good to see these people getting some heat because it might make them a bit more honest.

We need to keep their feet to the fire, this whole big mess this country is in, is because of these politicians greed.

I am not from Illinois, but watching this play out on the news just burns me. The man has a right to trial and a chance to prove his innocence. The tapes we've heard referenced do NOT show the whole case. The feds would NOT have moved forward on this without conclusive proof that there IS a case.

One thing that hasn't been discussed is that if he is guilty, he will need a bargaining chip. That will be his office and the Governorship. He will testify as to his guilt, provide information on all others involved, and walk away with a resignation and his pension before he is convicted. While he may serve jail time, he will have protected his ***-ets and his family's future. The Illinois State Atty General is moving right now to take away his ability to appoint a new person to Obama's Senate seat. That will be the main move right now, to ensure that whomever is appointed is not involved in the "bidding" for the seat. Unfortunately, this may also mean that someone who was qualified to take the seat and who would have done a good job, may be eliminated because they had some contact with the governor, even if it was only to ask about being appointed.

I truly hope that there was no involvement by Obama or any of his staff. The country does not need any more scandal. We need a leader who can step up untainted and take charge and get this freakin' mess sorted out for the good of the USA as a whole.

I also want to know who stepped up and blew the whistle on the whole operation and got the investigation rolling in the first place. Kudos to that person for doing the right thing and reporting the whole mess!

I have to say I felt bad for Jessie Jackson Jr this morning. He gave an interview with his wife and broke down saying how in five years he wants his kids to google his name and have it come out clean. He said he is determined to get his name cleaned up by this mess. I don't know if he's guilty or not as we haven't heard his involvement except that he was going for the seat. Whatever the outcome it was nice to see he is thinking about his children first. Blago wont say anything except we will hear from him when the time is right. You'd think he'd be trying to get his voice out there if he was innocent but maybe his lawyers are saying otherwise. If it were me I'd be all out there. lol

I honestly don't think that this would have been moved on if they didn't have sufficient evidence to convict him. Of course, we aren't going to get the whole story just through the media....we'll hear what they want us to hear.

I don't live in IL but we've had our own fiasco here in GA with the Brian Nichols case (he shot the judge, court reporter, deputy, etc. while trying to escape). He's guilty...no question about it. Just as Blago is. But the taxpayers will foot the bill for a long, drawn out trial that is, IMHO, a waste of money and time. If there was any question of innocence then it would be well worth it.....but more often than not there's no question about it.

I'm sure we haven't heard the last of this. The whole justice system we have in the U.S. works more for the guilty, it seems, than the innocent.

there are many ways to look at this...(as with everything)

first of all, in concept. I am definitely for "innocent til proven guilty"

it is an ideal...because there are many incidences where one can look guilty or be framed and before the electronic age, many innocent folks have been accused of crimes they did not commit.

usually, a person's character and actions will speak louder than their words and since we're all human. Human beings are programmed to form "opinions" first.

We all do that.

In this "Big Brother" era, where everything is tapped, taped, recorded, it makes it harder for the "innocent til proven guilty" to take effect because of the media thus opinions are definitely formed before the trial.

And I agree with the folks that stated that it goes deeper. Everything does.

But it is the whole picture...

Blag's actions have been louder than words. His actions have formed people's opinions about him already...

how would they prove for him to be innocent will be very hard...

IMHO, I think the only way for this case to be fair is to bring in people from other countries that have no access to our media. LOLOL

anyways, I know I didn't answer the question. My opinion is that innocent til proven guilty IS in my principle. But a person's actions will always affect my opinion..

and right now, Blag's actions aren't speaking well for him...that's just a fact...

:)

Amen Brother Moi!

Can I get a hallemalujah sistah!!! :D

(sorry to hijack...I am such a turd sometimes...:thud:)

Innocent until proven guilty...it's a wonderful idea in principle, but has never been the reality in the USA...I repeat never. Jefferson/Sally Hemmings. Lincoln sleeping with men. There has been many an assasination of character of politicos in the past, whether it's been true or not.
And Blago can always claim that he was just talking bull...but then his underlings can state that he sent them to talk to the Tribune bosses to fire the editors who badmouth him...and he will be toast.
Blago is part and parcel a product of the Daley machine...and until you get rid of Mayor Daley and his underlings, the Chicago/Illinois mudpile will remain the same. Believe me, I grew up in Blago's FIL's ward, know how it works.

So Frank, I agree with you...he's taking a licking in the press...but he asked for it, the same way Gary Hart asked for it when he told the press, "just try and catch me", and they caught him with Donna Rice. Same thing.

Patrick Fitzgerald, the state's attorney, wouldn't have had him arrested if he didn't have a case against him. And the citizens of Illinois are being held hostage in the meantime.

Doesn't matter to me if he's a Dem or Rep...he's a snake. Not alleged.

hey I agree with everything said, that's what makes this a wee bit tough to digest i am being hypocritical in my own thinking too, part of it is conditioning, and me being stereo typical " he did I am sure he did, he is a politician" see what I mean, but thats there own fault, I agree D he is asking for it, Sandy I feel same way, I kind of agree with states attorney asking him to step down, had she just come out and said why "it would be for the better of the states finances," I would of respect her more, speak the truth it goes a lot farther, any who the fact still remains he hasnt been found guilty although I feel he is guilty. so do you force him out on something not gone to trail, its a mess lol

this is where true character comes in to play and well he has none, so much for that concept

I would fess up and take my bumps and resign if I had one ounce of suspicious behavior involved in this issue,(I wouldnt of gotten into the mess in first place)

I dont get these folks who have so much going and blow it on something illegal or something totally stupid

ROTF! Did anyone watch SNL last night? I almost lost my dinner laughing so hard when they did the news segment "Really." Amy said "When I call my dealer I don't ask for weed. I ask for $50 for circus tickets! Really?!"

It was funny but so true! Why would someone who knows he's being tapped talk so openly about bribery? ROTF

SNL Really

oh i think I know this one, cause they are stupid?

did I get it right

I heard on the radio that Att. Gen. Lisa Madigan was on Meet the Press this morning. She said that there are important issues that need to be dealt with now...that she's not convicting him by her action to remove him temporarily, but that these issues need to be addressed, and he is incapable, by reason of these charges, of dealing with them, specifically a highway funding bill that has not been dealt with for 2 years, and we in Illinois will lose funding from the U.S. gov't if we don't get this bill done now. We also took a hit from the bond rating due to the charges. He has been staying at home for some time now (which I didn't know about). I knew he didn't go down to the state capitol, but he hasn't even been going into his Chicago office until the charges were brought. It's a "no-show" job, a la SNL (and many ciy contract jobs, too).
I have been so upset about this...even though I know that's how business is done in this state. After Obama's election, I was so thrilled to see that maybe something in politics might change. But I was brought back to reality by this, and it saddens me so. I want to believe in people's innate goodness, but politics attracts those who are in it for themselves, IMHO.
Again, I want to move to an island...build a shack...sip some drinks...and not think about anything. I guess that's called heaven...:rolleyes: