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Supplements for lowering cholesterol:
This subject is very important.
Because information on this subject is very conflicting, readers here should read this information I've collected carefully and discuss with your doctor the best way to approach your cholesterol or elevated lipid problems before doing things yourself. Some of the sites I will be posting may have high doses of some supplements. I don't recommend really high anything, so if you choose to do~~ for example very high dose Vit C or anything else...~~you should be monitored by a doctor. The main drugs we have today for cholesterol issues have large tradeoffs.(serious side effects). So benefit vs risk is an important issue to consider if your doctor wants you to use statins. Also, be aware than many doctors do NOT understand statin side effects clearly. This is because they may only listen to drug salespeople and not research for themselves, or take their patients' complaints seriously. If your doctor does not listen to YOU, consider getting another doctor. This subject comes up on the various boards here often, and it is difficult to keep all the information more easily accessible. I've just purchased Dr. Jay Cohen MD's book on statins. It is a very interesting read. I am starting this thread today, so people can come on here and give their experiences with alternative cholesterol issues. And as time is showing the actual role of cholesterol is not as big as was once thought. Oxidation of LDL and inflammatory markers such as homocysteine and C-reactive protein, seem more instrumental in causing damage to the cardiovascular system. So I will be building this thread slowly. Please contribute your experiences as well. The medical tide now is turning, concerning statins and cholesterol. This first post will be a link fest... for patients who want to see the most recent opinions on this subject: Dr. Jay Cohen, MD http://www.medicationsense.com/index.html http://www.medicationsense.com/statin_drugs_book.html Dr. Graveline MD has a good website too: http://www.spacedoc.net/ And of course, The Cholesterol Myth: http://www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol.htm Many people choose to use alternative supplements for cholesterol lowering. I'll be adding information about them in the future. This subject is HUGE, and Big DOLLARS are involved for the drug companies. So in a sense there is a political motivation to make as much money as possible. The direction of research is now moving away from statins. There are only two left on patent, and these will be expired soon. So we already see new commercials on TV and an increase in media coverage. But the truth is that no new statins are in the pipeline at this time. And the research is showing that endothelial inflammation of the blood vessels is the real culprit in cardiovascular disease. So some of the interventions for this problem are moving toward reducing this inflammation. That is where supplements come in. Some exciting new papers are appearing on curcumin and resveratrol (from red wine) as being very helpful. Statins have alarming side effects, with new ones showing up as time passes. Pulmonary fibrosis is recently linked to them. But also they have shown to be causes of peripheral neuropathy, loss of cognition and memory, serious elevations in liver function, and cancer in lab animals. One common effect of statins is their negative effects on the mitochondria of your cells. Statins seem to damage them, and hence the cell can no longer function normally to provide energy. So readers here, will have to return to this thread, and see what is being posted. All are welcome to ask questions and provide their experiences with this health problem. This is a huge subject, so there will be alot of homework for readers to do here. There is just no way to make this topic quick and easy! Here are some posts that already have had discussions here on statins/cholesterol: http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread33964.html http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread38209.html http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/sh...hlight=Lipitor http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread59339.html Our Parkinson's forum often has interesting information on statins, as they relate to Parkinson's disease. Here is a link to the search there on the word "statin": http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/se...g_searchinfo=1 And a similar search on Peripheral Neuropathy. We get many visitors who have had negative side effects/nerve damage from statins: http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/se...g_searchinfo=1 |
statins/cardiomyopathy???
mrs d tried to start new thread, site wouldnt let me....so...any known relationship between statins and cardiomyopathy? dont know if it is hypertrophic or dialated....my sister was just dx and also has LBBB, and only a 30% EJ fraction....asked doc about activity restrictions, and was told no, which surprises me......no known heart attack, no hptn and seemed to tolerate the statin.....our mother had a "threatened/aborted heart attack and did have hypertension....didnt tolerate statins until i started her on Co Q10,
i am concerned .....any info you could provide would be appreciated.... tia |
pabb...
Your question illustrates the confusion out there about statins.
On the one hand...studies show anti-inflammatory effects of statins that are independent of their cholesterol lowering actions. It is this anti-inflammatory effect that is supposed to be the "heart" of their success in studies. Many many studies are on PubMed about this subject. But I don't know how accurate they are. I recall a similar blitz of positive studies with hormone replacement therapy that were all erroneous, as well as antidepressants use in children that were positive and then withdrawn. (drug companies forced to reveal the negative studies). So it is really hard to know who to believe these days. If you Google this subject you will find doctors who claim that there is an "epidemic" of heart failure now and they believe it is from statin use-- like this example: Quote:
We do know that statins DAMAGE mitochondria. And since the heart is the most active muscle in the body, it is only logical that damage here would be signficant and deadly. Quote:
In Dr. Jay Cohen's book, he has many many reports from older patients who saw lowered cholesterol without damage in doses quite low. 2.5mg of Lipitor, 10mg Pravachol, 5 mg of Zocor. He believes that statins may help without harming people if used in much lower doses. That the high doses we are suggested to use are not accurate or necessary. Personally I think it is possible. I have seen patients coming to me in their 40's with CHF...and before statins, that was pretty rare. When the patents run out on statins soon, that is when the NEGATIVE studies will appear. That is the way other drugs' problems are eventually revealed and the truth then comes out. |
thanks.....my mom had the muscle issue with the statins...so it would seem reasonable that my sister might as well,,just not all the muscles ...
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sent you an email...inre: townsend letter article from 2006
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Red Yeast Rice:
By far this is the best known, and most used alternative supplement for cholesterol issues.
Historically red yeast rice has been used for centuries in China for cardiovascular problems. When the first statin appeared in US...Mevacor by Merck, there was a huge push to remove competitive products like red yeast rice so that Mevacor would have a clear path medically. This was similar to what happened with l-tryptophan. The company who made a very high quality product Cholestin, was forced by the courts to change its product and remove red yeast rice. This is the new product: http://www.pharmanex.com/corp/produc...holestin.shtml However, interest in red yeast rice did not wane. And today it is back (like l-tryptophan as well). I've been reading about red yeast rice for years. No one single reference gives all the details about it. So far I see 3 major things one should be aware of in choosing to try red yeast rice: 1) Where does this red yeast rice come from? Most comes from China but there are companies here in US who make it too. Given the problems lately with China and adulteration, choosing a US produced form may be safer. Two that I know use US product are the NOW company, and Doctor's Best. They openly state this. I am not going to research all of the suppliers out there, so if you decide to use red yeast rice, I'd strongly suggest you contact the company you intend to use yourself. 2) Not all suppliers have a standarized amount of red yeast rice in them. They all vary. Consumerlab tested some, and found: http://www.consumerlab.com/reviews/R...ed_Yeast_Rice/ http://uk.reuters.com/article/health...97022820080709 http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs...ournalCode=acm |
Red Yeast Rice:
By far this is the best known, and most used alternative supplement for cholesterol issues.
Historically red yeast rice has been used for centuries in China for cardiovascular problems. When the first statin appeared in US...Mevacor by Merck, there was a huge push to remove competitive products like red yeast rice so that Mevacor would have a clear path medically. This was similar to what happened with l-tryptophan. The company who made a very high quality product Cholestin, was forced by the courts to change its product and remove red yeast rice. This is the new product: http://www.pharmanex.com/corp/produc...holestin.shtml However, interest in red yeast rice did not wane. And today it is back (like l-tryptophan as well). I've been reading about red yeast rice for years. No one single reference gives all the details about it. So far I see 3 major things one should be aware of in choosing to try red yeast rice: 1) Where does this red yeast rice come from? Most comes from China but there are companies here in US who make it too. Given the problems lately with China and adulteration, choosing a US produced form may be safer. Two that I know use US product are the NOW company, and Doctor's Best. They openly state this. I am not going to research all of the suppliers out there, so if you decide to use red yeast rice, I'd strongly suggest you contact the company you intend to use yourself. 2) Not all suppliers have a standarized amount of red yeast rice in them. They all vary. Consumerlab tested some, and found: http://www.consumerlab.com/reviews/R...ed_Yeast_Rice/ http://uk.reuters.com/article/health...97022820080709 http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs...ournalCode=acm 3) There is a contaminant called citrinin that can be present in some red yeast rice extracts. Quality manufacturers state clearly that their product does not contain this contaminant: NOW and Doctor's Best are examples. Quote:
Here are two links with good information about this herb: http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/red-yeast-000323.htm This one goes into a huge drug interaction paragraph which seems rather common to many that are available on the net..some may not really be applicable to red yeast rice but they are included for safety reasons: http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH...l?d=dmtContent I have seen one paper of one case of interaction with the antibiotic Biaxin. So the standard warnings for use with Zithromax, erythromycin, antifungals, Biaxin etc (the same warnings for the old Seldane) apply. I don't think patients should take red yeast rice should do so without a doctor's supervision. You need to monitor liver functions (it is rare to have this effect on the liver but it should be monitored anyway). Dr. Jay Cohen suggests in his book, that mild to moderately elevated patients may see good lowering of cholesterol. Also he suggests that C-reactive protein may lower as well. Here is a recent paper from 2008 with results: Quote:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/69/2/231 And this: http://www.creators.com/lifestylefea...ol-levels.html Dosing... To start, I'd go carefully. Start at 600mg twice a day. Do this for 3 months and get retested. If this works, you don't need to go higher. Many of the medical sites I found suggest 1200mg twice a day. If you use a quality product, going higher is probably not necessary. If you get NO improvements you may have to start a statin at very low doses and titrate up further with that if you choose. There are not many reports of side effects. I found one at PubMed: Quote:
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here is an update on myself:
I got my latest lipid scores today.
Using 1200mg Red Yeast Rice daily-- Doctor's Best brand: My total cholesterol went down 25pts my LDLs went down 17 pts my HDLs went up 18pts triglycerides went down almost 100 pts! I am going to increase red yeast rice to 2400mg daily (as per Dr. Cohen's book). (2 in the morning and 2 at bedtime). We are retesting in 3mos! I also use the non-flush niacin 1000mg a day. I am pleased. |
i was under the impression that the same chemicals were involved, with the red rice yeast and statins?????
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Quote:
There is great variability with red yeast rice products. Some are better than others. I address that above. And there have been reports of Chinese produced red yeast rice being contaminated intentionally with lovastatin to make those sources seem stronger. So I am using only American made red yeast rice. In Dr. Cohen's book (which I just loaned my doctor so I don't have it here now), his quoted medical source says that with 500 patients who use this herb, no side effects were reported. Just for the record, I am starting d-chiro inositol now. I just ordered it. It is really expensive, but the studies show vast improvements in metabolic syndrome with it. I've been watching it for years. I used metformin for a while, but after 6months it made me very ill... acidosis. I was very disappointed when that happened. :( |
How much d-chiro inosito to make a dent in metablic syndrome?
Thank you. |
there is a paper....
quoted on one of those two supplier sites, from PubMed.
For overweight women with metabolic syndrome the paper used 1200mg daily. For lean women the dose was 600mg daily. 1200 mg daily puts you into mega bucks territory. About $85 a month. I am going to do the 1200 for 3 months, then have my retests. I have the orders in my wallet in fact! Women with metabolic syndrome do not ovulate. So I guess the prices reflect the desperate need and not the real value of the supplement. I feel like it is a form of highway robbery! If this works for me...the upside is: 1)correction of the metabolic problems without using drugs which do not work without tradeoffs(side effects). d-chiro is a natural substance our bodies use...not a drug...but it is skewed by the metabolic syndrome process. 2) avoiding frank diabetes, which I am on the borderline of. My A1C is still very low and good, so I am not quite in trouble "yet"...but it IS coming. |
here is another link...to chiro inositol:
This blog has more links:
http://terveys.blogspot.com/2008/05/...-inositol.html and this: http://aladdin.wustl.edu/ocfr/Resear...+Endocrinology This article was written BEFORE the two OTC supplements became available: http://www3.fertilethoughts.com/foru...d.php?t=379227 |
Thanks for this excellent information mrsD.
My DH was taking Atorvastatin (Lipitor) but one of his blood tests rose abnormally high.....(I think it was his CRP). His GP said that hubby's muscles were dying and so ceased the Lipitor. He now takes Ezetrol (Ezetimibe) 10mgs at night. Will this medication harm his body in the same way as the Atorvastatin did? |
in the US
this drug is called Zetia. I have read that there is a risk of muscle injury with it too....but...here are the FDA medwatch reports for it:
http://patientsville.com/medication/...de_effects.htm I used this for 6mos, and got no changes. In fact my cholesterol went UP. I did have some GI upsets with it too. But it does work for some people. It appears that the muscle damage side effects are lower with Zetia. Some of the effects on that site, reflect the other drugs the patient was also taking. So the single users are more accurate IMO. You might find Dr. Cohen's book very helpful~~ My doctor wanted to read it in fact! So I loaned it to her. I probably will never see it again. :rolleyes: http://www.medicationsense.com/statin_drugs_book.html In this book are explanations of other factors that may be more predictive of cardiovascular incidents than cholesterol levels: c-reactive protein lipoprotein A inflammation low intake of antioxidants |
So.... with hubby's elevated CRP due to the Lipitor.... he was more at risk on the drug than off it?
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Quote:
CPK test about 3-6mons after starting Zetia, to see if it is affecting it. Personally I think certain people are more at risk to CPK elevations than others. With the research into mitochondrial damage becoming more complete...we see mito issues with vaccine damage in autism now as well. The thought is that some people have recessive genes for mitochondrial disorders and only express damage when a big thing (drug/vaccine/illness) comes along to set it off. I read a paper a long time ago (about 10 yrs ago) stating that many people have recessive genes for mito disorders and begin expressing them when they get older (over 40-50). There are many drugs that damage mitochondria. http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/Ne...y/25020801.asp http://www.mail-archive.com/sustaina.../msg73462.html With all the reading I do online, and searching...it seems we always come back to this: mito damage. In fact Dr. Bruce Ames believes that mito damage of simple aging can be diminished with certain nutrients: http://www.bruceames.org/ So it is possible your husband has a genetic predisposition to mito damage. I sure know MY doctor argues with me about this all the time. This week she said she takes 20mg Lipitor herself with no problem. And my response to that? Good for you, but you are NOT me! I don't want to take that risk right now. (I couldn't really tell her that she is not as sharp as she once was, either! but she isn't, and I think Lipitor is HER problem.) |
Thank you mrsD, and it was his CK that was elevated. I remember thinking at the time it was a test that was formerly used to check for heart attacks.
I was actually talking about the Lipitor, but you've clarified that very nicely for me. He'll be having blood tests done next week so I'll ask his GP to add a CK level to the list. |
yes, that test
Quote:
It will also elevate during a mito attack in patients with mito disorders. Anyone with elevated CPK should NEVER take statins. It the rhabdo becomes severe, the byproducts of the muscle breakdown destroy the kidneys and may result in death if severe. Statins also cause liver damage in sensitive patients. |
Policosanol
This supplement has very mixed reviews.
I am very hesitant to suggest it at this time. But some multivitamin manufacturers do include it in their products... Like One-A-Day. The problem with it, is that there are two sources..one from Cuba which was thought to be better, and other types since the embargo on Cuba made the sugarcane form impossible to get. Now there is a question that the Cuban studies were flawed. This article is about the best I could find on this subject: http://altmedicine.about.com/od/poli...olicosanol.htm Here is a 2008 study that found that policosanols were not effective: Quote:
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