5 years after 911
 

any thoughts about 911 ?

analyzing doesn't do it either
 

I think, that we should never forget 9/11 or the people or the heroes. And move on. We've heard all of the reasons, and they are good ones, for why we shouldn't go to war, shouldn't kill civilians. and I agree - war is insanity. But we've got to stop analyzing it and move forward to solve this.

There are two movies out right now that are good examples about how hateful our thinking has become. One is about Clinton's escapades in the whitehouse, which children will be very confused over - or at least the ones that aren't already, including young teens.

The other is about the assassination of Pres. Bush. This goes beyond politics and is clearly a threat.

Terrorists, and I'm referring to the real ones not us, are not interested in analyzing our mistakes in IRaq - they are far too busy exploiting them.

Michael Fox, who is an inspiration to many of us with PD, was asked on Bravo - Inside the Actor's Guild - what his favorite thing, or characteristic that he admires most in people or whatever those questions are they always ask at the end of that program. His reply was "courage without fear".

Spreading fear is not uinique to the Bush admininistration. Talk about solutions, not philosophies. Drilling it in everyone's head how imcompetent the leaders in charge of our lives are is fearmongering at it's worst.

The best thing to come out of another 9/11 memorial would be for us to come together and make if clear that we won't fight unless we have to but if we have to.....we're going to finish it this time.


forward... solutions...unite
Paula

i cant stand clinton because he bombed kosovo

staying with one party is a major problem with americans

Actually, I wish we had more parties....more choices....real parties- not isolated ones like libertarians. I wish the Independent Party would become a strong third party. It seems logical with so many problems between the donkey and elephants.

Paula

im voting against whoever is in now

there are third partes, but they suck
the green party sucks i think

libertarians suck too

maybe americans get the goverment they desreve

The best thing to come out of another 9/11 memorial would be for us to come together and make if clear that we won't fight unless we have to but if we have to.....we're going to finish it this time.


forward... solutions...unite
Paula


Very well said Paula, I could not agree more....Sue

I agree, Paula. I think the biggest problem in the Vietnam war is that we left the South Vietnamese on their own against the enemy, and didn't finish the job there. I do not want to see Afghanistan and Iraq turn out the same way.

9/11
 

Interesting-Bob Bowman just won the primary in my district in Florida. He has quite an interesting demeanor- in his TV ads and phone calls he is loud and authoritative. His voice has come booming out of my answering machine. And he has an infamous opponent, Dave Weldon, staunch sponsor and author of anti-ESCR stem cell bills. That should make for some interesting decision making. We know how to pick em down here...


paula

Caught part of this on Sundance tonight. VERY sad. We all know how difficult it is to get medical help when you've lost your job due to disability. How our government could turn it's back on the rescue workers infuriates me.

The workers found out how little their government appreciates their efforts, in the same way they turn their back on vets when they are no longer able to 'perform' for them.

I give it a definite recommend if you happen to catch it on sundance.

DUST TO DUST: THE HEALTH EFFECTS OF 9/11

http://www.sundancechannel.com/film/...ec960056d5f928

i have that as home page

sometimes maybe theyre crazy theire

I have a feeling most of you are fairly young who posted here. Why? rather ultra-liberally biased. So, here are , IMHO, a few comments on each of the topics.............


No one who saw other attacks on this country "moved on." They fought. As a result, we are still here. Try your history ( if it was ever taught to you): Revolutionary War, WWII are major ones which come to mind. A coalition kept everyone from finishing what was started in Desert Storm in the 90s ( let's be kind and not mess w/Iraq) Where did it get us? We are now cleaning up someones mess years later.

Seems people forget:

1) The military is there since they enlisted of free will ( in old censuses, you will find every male from 16 to 45 was required to list in case there was a need for troops, and for WWI every male born from the 1880s on was required to register for the draft, as was every male 18 or older until recently) We should be very proud of those who CHOOSE to serve this country.

2) The protesters and naysayers are mostly middle aged 1960's leftovers who never outgrew the 60s. ( or got elected then and haven't changed an iota of their brain cells lineup since: think Teddy K.) They still think we are in Vietnam...muyst never have had geography.

3) What would you call the treatment of Americans and Westerners by the gropups of jihadists? polite and according to the Geneva Convention? They should be treated exactly as they treat our people - and their own who are trying to builld govts.
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Politicians? Another party? it will help? Multiple parties nearly destroyed this country in its infancy. At times, they never got anywhere near a passing vote!

FWIW, an independent (Ross Perot) is the only reason Clinton got elected the 2nd time. Splittting the vote more w/add'l parties is no solution. ( Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice, shame on you. I didn't vote Clinton the second time. Anyone w/the moniker Slick Willy should have been a clue)

Candidates run because they can afford to. Did you ever see a middle class higher office politician? Local, yes. Anywhere else, no. You want better politicians? Find people who really know politics and are neutral to both factions. PLUS: You cannot "kiss up" to every loony toon group and add their agenda to yours w/out diluting your message... that is the nature of the beast of current politics.

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9/11? To those who dohn't know: The rules have changed in NY State recently on health. Read up. (BTW, I have several family members who were there for 5 mos dealing w/the aftermath

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For all the bull on "what really happened" , ask those who were there about getting hit with bodies falling from the sky. It needs to be shown, over and over. It shouldn't be sanitized. People forgot too soon.

And let's not believe phoney fictitious "documentary" films like those of Mikey moore. Are you really so feeble minded you thingk he is for real? And the newer one lining up the President as assinated? What MANIAC ever made that and WHO let it out? How sick is that?

icon at top is accidental
 

What a good post. I learned from it because it was reasonable and fact based - not corrupted by hate,accusations or name calling. i don't claim to be a skilled politician or to know all my war history, but I recognize political propaganda and hatred when I see it.

Today I am thinking "long live the pope". I don't want to talk about religion but it is his intellect that I hope starts a new ball rolling about the nature of this crisis. This is a religious war, but only on one side. He calls the radical Islamists violent, so they prove it by killing a nun. A nun! It must be Bush's fault.:cool:

Worse yet is the absence of any moderate muslim response.

I wish I could agree that this hatred is just leftover from the 60s. I think they have raised a new generation or two that is far more dangerous due to being spoiled, apathetic, and emotionally neglected. On the other side of the world, they are raising them to hate us and kill us.

Who would want to be President?

the usa and uk i think uses depleted uranium on iraq and kosovo-is this safe and fair ?i doubt it-thats a dirty bomb in my opinion

bush seems to refuse to condemn the fake new voting machines ,in fact the ag gonzales and him mandated the switch-over to those hackable machines

i doubt if democray is still here in usa-i have my doubts

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/1112-01.htm



"This whole thing is a crime against God and humanity."

Speaking from his home in Rantoul, Ill., where he works as a substitute high school science teacher, Rokke said, "When we went to the Gulf, we were all really healthy, and we got trashed."

Rokke, an Army Reserve major who describes himself as "a patriot to the right of Rush Limbaugh," said hearing the latest Pentagon statements on DU is especially frustrating now that another war against Iraq appears likely.

"Since 1991, numerous U.S. Department of Defense reports have said that the consequences of DU were unknown," Rokke said. "That is a lie. We warned them in 1991 after the Gulf War, but because of liability issues, they continue to ignore the problem." Rokke worked until 1996 for the military, developing DU training and management procedures. The procedures were ignored, he said.

"Their arrogance is beyond comprehension," he said. "We have spread radioactive waste all over the place and refused medical treatment to people . . . it's all arrogance.

"DU is a snapshot of technology gone crazy."

i voted for reagan twice and bush once -only kerry and clinton once and carter once did i vote for

i dont even listen to the news anymore because bush seems to contradict himself and the linclon group writes phoney news stories that the taxpayers pay for-the world has gone mad

dont beleive everything you see or hear

I live a short distance from the WTC and we lost many from our community. I personally annalyze the crap out of 911 because we have been fed way too many lies about what happened then, and what has happened since. If you take the time to look at the real evidence and all the events that have been downplayed since... you will change your mind about what really happened as well.

People don't seem to realize that we have lost much of our liberties since 911 and if you take the time to read between the lines you will see there is much more going on then what we are shown on the news.

Clinton was impeached because he screwed around and lied about it and literally crucified by the media. But Bush, a man who didn't even get the majority of votes in the election, murdered thousands of innocent people abroad, sends our troops w/o adequate protection or cause, puts us in huge debt, violates our privacy, strips away our protections and rights...and so much more then this..... well he gets to stay in office.:confused:

And gee, who would have thunk that 9/11 would have made it so easy for a president to change so much? Must be because people feel you can't expect that much from a c student.

This is why people analyze 9/11 because unless someone lays it out slowly and methodically for the public, people will not pay attention to what is happening. This is the beggining of World War 3, which will undoubtly become a nuclear war and most people are clueless as to what is happening.

Just a thought, but take a minute and imagine the world without Islamic radical terrorists - that is -imagine they never existed as terrorists. Does it still look like we are the villains of the world? Fighting this kind of enemy did lead to mistakes, but look at the other side's leaders I think we have a case of dumb and dumber going here. Interesting that the protestors outside the UN were IRANIAN AMERICANS.

paula

dang...

interesting thread. no doubt, this is a war fueled by religious fervor and a deep resentment for those that, ironically, rely on, oil/oil by products from the middle east.

there will never be peace as long as we are viewed as a completely fundamentalist "christian" culture, and not the diverse one that it actually is.

is bush any more a necessary evil than the mullahs? don't both feel that they are protecting their own, with whatever means necessary?

the concept of "right" is both relative, cultural, and deeply based in history.

in times of conflict and war, our "leaders" never have the "environment" in mind, nor do they care about the lives of any one individual (our own, or those of our enemies). It is about "warring" efficiently, politically, and successfully.

do we "like" war, of course not...

go back through time/history (of the world) and you will find that no nation has waged war, without harming someone (including the environment). It is the nature of the beast.

and, yes, it is apparent that there are depleted weapons of war, left behind, but there are organizations whose effort it is to educate those that might be exposed and eradicate their use or remove them altogether (in times of peace). should our government do this? of course; but, when it doesn't, that is where the action of our own citizen's or private sector, is required.

our government (or any other) will never be "correct" in everything it does.

sometimes our own citizens have to step up, help out (ie, doctors without borders) and offer their expertise to help others/other nations.

If we believe that it is our government's responsbililty to "fix everything" without the effort of its citizens, then we get what we get. paying a tax isn't enough.

and, lastly, it is the citizen who questions their government that is the heart of a democratic society; it is a great citizen of that democracy that does more than question, but also takes action to affect change, however subtle or great that change may be.

fueling fires of hatred, anger, cultural differences with half truths, serves only to perpetuate the conflict between us, and everyone else; words of hate, innuendo, complaint without action, generalization, etc. are as potent/dangerous as the depleted weapons we leave behind.

the media, perhaps, should be questioned as much as our leaders. it is facinating that we tend to believe so quickly anyone who can offer words on a website, TV/radio station; it is no doubt that our "enemies" have also come to form hateful generalizations about our culture/people, not through actual contact, but through the images presented by our media.

even if we wanted to break away from this hatred fueled media representations, could we? would we have enough fortitude to turn away from the "tube" and take the time to educate ourselves about those that are our enemies? would we really take the time to understand history, religions of the world, politics, philosophy, psychology, to the level that truly is required to "know" what really is at play or form an objective opinion?

time to think for ourselves and act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax

too scary for most to think about but usa does wacky things and just boldly admits later they did them

sick

roossevelt wrote a book on it

Operation Ajax was the first time the Central Intelligence Agency was involved in a plot to overthrow a democratically-elected government. The success of this operation, and its relatively low cost, encouraged the CIA to successfully carry out a similar operation in Guatemala a year later.

Widespread dissatisfaction with the oppressive regime of the reinstalled Shah led to the 1979 Islamic Revolution in Iran and the occupation of the U.S. embassy. The role that the U.S. embassy had played in the 1953 coup led the revolutionary guards to suspect that it might be used to play a similar role in suppressing the revolution.

The leader of Operation Ajax was Kermit Roosevelt, Jr., a senior CIA agent, and grandson of the former U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt. While formal leadership was vested in Kermit Roosevelt, the project was designed and executed by Donald Wilber, a career contract CIA agent and acclaimed author of books on Iran, Afghanistan and Ceylon.

As a condition of restoring the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company, the U.S. was able to dictate that the AIOC’s oil monopoly shou

i see the mainstream news like cnn nbc as comic news-meaningless babble