It's OK to need people...
 

No matter what our circumstances, we can always maintain our ability to give love - to deliberately choose to love people, to be a channel, an instrument, a mirror of greater love, God's love.

Perhaps the most difficult, challenging part of being afflicted - whether that affliction is emotional, physical, or both - isn't maintaining our ability to love others. It is becoming vulnerable enough to allow ourselves to receive love.

Many of us have spent our lives caring for, and giving to, others. We may have prided ourself on our fierce independence and on not needing people, at least not significantly enough to let it show.

Suddenly, we may find ourself helpless as a turtle on its back - needing emotional support, physical presence, someone to hold our hand: maybe needing someone to bathe us, dress us, care for us, or help us go to the bathroom. Even with all our strength, determination, and wisdom, and with God holding our hand, we find ourself needing people, too.

Perhaps that is the hardest, and most important, lesson we have to learn.

A Reason to Live by Melody Beattie

I never before reached out to people but now that I have been forced to, its rejection after rejection and its making me bitter.I guess since I helped so many before now I expected something different! I even once took a harmless street bum home with me because I could not let him die in freezing snow, but everywhere I go for help (including my own family) doors are slammed in my face and all thats happening is making me bitter and cynical?? How do you deal with that??Is it because I am unable to get on my knees while asking?? :(

(((Junie))) I don't think it has anything to do with getting on your knees.
I think it's a matter of giving with a grateful heart...of being thankful for the things we have...of not expecting anything in return.

I understand being bitter (been there, done that) I understand being hurt (that still happens, it's called life ~sigh~)

What has worked for me...is to redefine what is really important in my life.
Not trying to lecture you deargirl but just wanted to share what has worked for me. Granted, it was a very long time coming! :hug:

I often thought if i did good i would get good back...and its true...

but its what we define as good that is the question.?

If anything we do is done as an investment awaiting a future return for that good deed... it never gets repaid.

If we do A good deed that is not spontaneous, or it is done to massage one's ego or impress others......it never gets repaid

if you go about life aiming to hurt no one, & being decent and respectful of others...it doesn't always come back to you either.

But when your on the floor...screaming for your maker.. to save you or take you...the books balance up [ someone appears, someone phones or someone talks to you when you need it most, things happen to lighten your load]

how many times has a stranger acknowledged you, just at that time your mind is trying to convince you no one gives a XXXX

how many times does a song get played on the radio just when you need to hear it. [or that it allows for the flood gates to open ,,,and to release those tears, that help heal your soul]

WAITING FOR OTHERS TO RESCUE YOU BACK CAN BE A LONG ARDUOUS PROCESS.

Therefore rescue yourself.........................

continue to be kind, considerate and helpful to others..continue to aim higher in what you do for others.... without thanks or praise....................

AND IF WE ALL DO IT,, THE WORLD WILL BECOME A BETTER PLACE


David

hi Junie


i found a song for you

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie78VtBtwBI

the lyrics are as follows

Sometimes the river flows but nothing breathes.
A train arrives but never leaves.
It's a shame.
Oh life like love that walks out of the door.
Of being rich or being poor.
Such a shame.
But it's then, then that faith arrives.
To make you feel at least alive.
And that's why you should keep on aiming high.
Just seek yourself and you will shine

Chorus
You've got to search for the hero inside yourself.
Search for the secrets you hide.
Search for the hero inside yourself.
Until you find the key to your life.


In this life long and hard though it may seem
Live it as you'd live a dream.
Aim so high.
Just keep the flame of truth burning bright.
The missing treasure you must find.
Because you and only you alone.
Can build a bridge across the stream.
Weave your spell in life's rich tapestry.
Your passport to a feel supreme.

Chorus.
You've got to search for the hero inside yourself.
Search for the secrets you hide.
Search for the hero inside yourself.
Until you find the key to your life.



David

Thank you David...a great song! You have been missed around here. :hug:

When I helped people along the years I never once thought of it as a scoreboard, afterall I never once expected to need help, but as I have thought back over the years I would be lying if I said I did not wonder why there was no help for me!

I mean I knew the homeless guy could ever repay me and I always thought family were supposed to be there for you in times of need, not that I imagined in my wildest dreams I would need them, and that is why it was such a shock to find that they were unwilling to give me shelter when I needed it!

I have a very strange family, the ones that never did anything for anyone are the ones getting the help, but if you treat a family member with love and respect, you get nothing and that is what makes me bitter!

What I did was because I could and wanted to, because they were family and I can't even count the strangers I have taken in and I never even told anyone when I did a good deed ( unless it backfired and I got robbed more then once) so it was not done for any pats on the back and I expected no metals, and when I played santa for families down on their luck it was with the understanding they never know where the gifts came from so I am not looking for any paybacks, I am just shocked that it turned out that way if you are understanding me at all!

I just have a different understanding of what families are for then they do, there are givers and there are takers, and I for sure am not under the taker side, I have worked hard all my life for anything I got and at times felt guilty that I had what others did not, but I was willing to go out and bust my butt to get it and I don't believe in helping those that are able but too lazy to help themselves, but I was more then willing to share what I had for those that were just down on their luck!


If it is an addict I will feed them or give them a ride but I am not dumb enough to give them money to buy drugs with! Just this past Christmas we had nothing for ourselves because we made sure certain kids would have a good one, and we did not take any credit for it!

I have been taking a stroll down memory lane this past week or so I and it hit me that the only time I saw any family it turned out they had needs and I was so grateful that at the time I thought they were here to see me, and now I know it was with open hands that they come so yes I am feeling bittter and stupid and used and its just the way I feel at this moment and I am trying to be as honest as I know how!

Junie i admire your honesty its frank..though quite refeshing.

I am the youngest of 9 children

I speak occassionaly to one brother, and phone my mother every week.

i'm 45 years old....left home at 16 years old and unless i phone or visit ...no one calls me or visits.


it took me nearly 25 years to realise....yes im from a big family..............but that does not mean we are close or even have to be.................

whilst i sat there day in day out worrying myself silly that no body cared about me......they were in their own homes living their own lives without care or worry.

I learnt not to waste energy trying to fathom out why i felt abandoned.....

i did not choose to be born into my family...............but i do make the choice if i wish to beat myself up about their behaviour towards me.


now i choose to let it go.


AS for your obvious good deeds......you know what you do...that alone is reward.


As for the homeless guy....he will repay.......if he sorts his life out finds work...settles down...he puts back into the system.......helping all tax payers and indirectly YOU.

As for the children you delight with xmas gifts...........they will learn the art of kindness from a early age..and wil give back to society so much in years to come...........

I KNOW YOUR HURTING ..i hear it in your words.......but bitterness is an emotional cancer that eats away at the human soul.......moment by moment. How you resolve your feelings is down to you.............but letting go of the past and family expectation is a begining.

by the way i do give a xxxx so keep posting

David

David you have such a way with words! Bitterness is an emotional cancer and I have no room for it in my life anymore.

Forgiveness is another matter! I think I might have mentioned struggling with that one a time or two. :D Any sage advice on how to move that problem on it's way.

And Junie...I also give a xxxx. *grin

Dear Junie I have been contemplating how to reply to all of this. Your situation is overwhelming. I come from a large family as welll. And am in the giving mode. It is not always appreciated. And I have suffered many times for it. But i try very hard not to let it bring me down. But this ususally takes a lot of work on myself. I figure that in the long run I will be the one to benefit even from the adversity. Because it will teach me how to be a better, and stronger person. The bitterness is a phase to work through. When you come out the other end, there is a greater peace because you quit giving your personal power over to them. I hope that makes sense. You do have to stand up for yourself. That is a virtue to learn. There is a fine line between doormat, and martyrdom. You are trying to work through a very difficult situation, with extrememly difficult emotions. Please keep coming here and posting, and we can toss it around, and you will learn how to cope in a way that is best for you and will eventually bring you some peace down the road. :hug:

Thanks everyone,
I am just 9 or 10 days that I have been coming out of the dark as far as they are concerned and my own problem of trying to please or fix everyone but myself, and the things I wrote down I plan to print out and give to the guy I se in therapy, most of our sessions end up with me crying through them so we end up not talking much!

The one thing I have not yet mentioned is I am fighting with myself over something else, my disability hearing is just over a month away after waiting nearly 3 years, and I want to somehow pull it off and open another account and not let dh know I have it just yet, at least this way I will have a choice of staying or leaving, and not feling trapped and at someone else's mercy (financially) so I am dealing with that too.

I hate not being honest with him but otherwise he will want to claim it as payment for supporting me although I am his wife and that is his job, but he wants to keep me under his thumb. I got the call about 48 hours after the showdown with my sisters when I was at my lowest point, and thats when I decided to try and figure me out so I won't end up screwing everything up again! I just hope I can pull it off and I hope they don't think its strange that I show up at the hearing alone. So I am dealing with even more then you know,sigh.

Junie this forum is a good place to vent and talk about what you are feeling. Lot's of wonderful support from this forum family of ours. Keep talking...we are here for you. :grouphug:

((junie)) I am disabled too, it was a real blow to my pride and self worth. I was 31 and more than bitter. I never had the long struggle you are in trying to get disability. It was approved first try. I can see where having your own source of income could help lift your spirits and give you some independence. I hope you win your case. Keep us posted.

I am from a large family too, we are a loving group. A bit messed up, we have our share of dysfunction and skeletons in the closet...but when you are truly down, they don't keep kicking, they help to pick you up.

My family has let me down many many times in the past. What I learned that has helped me, so I could truly forgive and move on.... is, don't expect them to be anything more than who they are. Simply put, I love them just the way they are. Once I stopped expecting them to be more than they could or wanted to be, my life got a whole lot easier. Forgiveness came easy and love came naturally.

Having said that, sometime there are people in your life who are poison to you. If you had cancer, as hard as it would be, you would have it removed. The same holds true for people. Sometimes you just have to cut them out of your life, family or not.

My Mom is a recovering alcoholic. She has been sober almost 25 years. In these years her whole outlook and spiritual essence has changed and grown. I have learned so much from her hard fought wisdom. I would like to share one of her favorite "stories" with you.

I can't tell it as well as she can, but the gist is......

Our emotional wellbeing depends on how we nurture and nourish our feelings and needs. Think of your heart and soul much like your need for water, you need both to thrive and survive.

If you were standing at well, all the water gone...... would you continue to stand there until you die? Or would you dig deeper to find water? Or move on to another well?

If your emotional needs are not being met, do not stand there and allow yourself to die on the inside....... move, run, dig deeper, and move on.

((Junie)) surround yourself with people who do care for you, friends can mean even more than family. And there is nothing wrong with that. Keeping you in my thoughts, Nikki:hug:

Thanks Nikki, and everyone else!
At this point I am not in a forgiving mood, and I now know to expect nothing from them since nothing is all I ever got, and I have been moving out of fantasy land where we will be one big happy family, thats is the reality I must face. Its hard to find friends (flesh and bone) in bed and thats where I spend most of my time! I am trying to help myself and it started by coming here and spilling my guts and being as honest as I can. I also know it won't be happening overnight.
Thanks everyone, but I won't be standing at the well anymore waiting on the water to suddenly appear, and I have no plans of ending it all either!

No...Junie, it won't happen overnight, of that you can be sure. But, as I have said before, it can happen. It is obvious to me that you are a survivor. To find happiness takes time, especially in your particular situation. We need time to work on it with you dear friend. Please hang in there. :hug:

First of all - David! you are an astounding man - thank you for being here!

Junie, I wrote to you in the other thread you wrote - I hope you see it. Hang in here with us dear lady.

I hope you learn, as I have, that the only one you can change is yourself.

I know life has been very disappointing to you... and although its a cliche, this too, shall pass!

People.. people who need people.... are the luckiest people.... (oh dear, I hear Barbra Streisand!)....

:sing: Addy

((Junie)) I loved your post. It is perfectly fine not to be in a forgiving mood, there have been many times I wasn't either. You are right, this will take some time, but I can see the survivor is you shinning through. You are women hear you roar:D I am glad you wont stand at a dry well! though we can not be there is person, we can be your friends and nourish your soul. You have made some major major steps, stand proud!:hug: Much love, Nikki

Thanks everyone,
I began taking my power from Dh back a few months ago, first I stopped trying to cook or clean for him, then I told him if he needed another woman to go for it, then I moved out of bedroom into the guest room (all 3 dogs followed me), and lastly I ordered his ton of meds but told him how/when to take them or die, that it was up to him and that really ****** him off but it was a long time coming! I reminded him he never did any of this stuff for me, even when I nearly died in hosp. Those things were very hard for me to do and I may not have done it had I known my family were not planning to take me in as soon as I got the courage to really leave him and give up my home because it may be dirty but its the biggest and has more comforts then any of the others had including being paid off!

Wow Junie....you are definately a fighter, and that is that it takes. You can't be a doormat and survive. I think learning how to stand up for ourselves is sometimes what we need to learn. There is nothing wrong with that. :hug:

I have been wondering to put this post.

Yesterday I share about my friend and a little bit about my situation at home. What I didn't share was that she "was" one of my best friends. Everyone has told me what a good friend I was to her. In fact, she rarely talks to me anymore. I've been told that the relationship was one sided and that she too advantage of me and to let it go. I miss her so much. Her home was a haven to me when I couldn't stand my own home. I drove with her to Ohio to see her mom. I lent her my scooter the battery on mine died. I never saw our relationship as one sided.

I know she thinks I am needy. We talked about this. I admitted I was. I don't have much of a support system and it was so nice finding someone to share with and have fun with. The situation at home didn't hit me until I stopped working (I was a social worker) and realized how alone I felt.

I know she has a lot of feelings to work through. We had been talking about how nice it would be to have a place away from our homes. I know she has the guilt of knowing that she wanted out of the marriage and then suddenly being out of the marriage by death. She is not cold hearted. She was not happy being married to him, but she didn't want him to die. I know she must have the "I should I have done this......"

It still hurts because I cherished our friendship and still do. There are still sparks of the old "us", so I'm not going to quit caring about her. I have the "I should haves too.

Yes I may have been or still am needy. We all need and sometimes it is okay to be needy. If we have always been givers, than we don't understand the intolerance of those who are not understanding and responsive to our needs.

I'm know I'm rambling but I wanted to share one more thing.

WHAT WAS I THINKING!

I woke up the other day and thought-What was I thinking!

I wanted another doxie-my first one, who is a wonderful dog is, Daddy's Little GIRL.

She sat next to me and was often beside when my MS symptom got out of hand, but she was Daddy's Little Girl.

My reasoning was, my doxie needs another dog to keep her company.

I made sure that the dog we got, would be compatable with mine.

I wanted a rescue dog. Mine was fortunate to be with us since she was a puppy.

After one bad attempt, I found the perfect match. She is housebroken (only 2 accidents since we got her on 12/18. Except for an occasional for a couple of "incidents", both doxie's get along-now it's only when one or the other gets into the other one's persona space.

They told me she was timid. I thought, no problem.

Than I woke up one morning and thought "What Was I Thinking." I have and emotionally handicapped doxie".

Timid is an understatement. She is so afraid she clings to me and has even followed me into the shower. When I am not home. She frequently hides behind the couch.

What was I thinking of? Am I that needy that I needed such a needy dog?

Then the answer came. What I want, what I need and what I want to give in this life is unconditonal love.

A Toast to NT! A place where you can find unconditonal love and where you can give it back

Hugs and Doxie Kisses, Doxie Mama

What a lucky little dog to land in your love!

There is nothing wrong with being needy...we all have needs Doxie sometimes they are greater than at other times. And it sounds like you understand your friends guilt on him dying....I stand by what I said...you are/were a wonderful friend to her. :hug:

I agree with what alffe said Doxie...... I'm proud to say that you are one of my cyber friends!!!!!!!! {{{{{HUGS}}}}}
http://dl4.glitter-graphics.net/pub/...wefoj9k4xp.gif
doxie kisses to you too!!!!!

I now know how needy I was with my cold hearted family, I was willing to give everything I had just to keep them in my life and for me that is sick! I feel so much freedom since I let them go, and yes I am lonesome, but at least I am not being used! I have 3 wonderful dogs that never leave my side!

I also got the nerve to tell dh that when my SS comes in I plan on putting it in a account so if he gets mean or drunk I can leave him, and he now knows I am serious so he quickly agreed!I did not tell him my hearing is in a month, but at least I did not lie to him about my plans and why I have to do it this way!

It was a real load off of me because I am not a liar by nature, and who knows, he may straighten up once he knows I have a way out?? Thanks everyone for helping me find the nerve to do the right thing!

Doxie :hug: It isn't so much "what was I thinking"

It is more what you were thinking with. :Heart:

How wonderful your baby has someone who can offer such love and comfort. That doesn't make you needy, it makes you an angel :hug:

Bump...I'm trying to collect my thoughts on yesterdays seminar...a lot I want to share, am just not ready yet. :grouphug:

Do tell...

I needed to reread this post, in fact I need to reread many of your posts David. I just finished leaving a message to one of our "family" who has been mia...feels she is too much of a "downer" for us and I replied to her, my old song of people can't help you if....yada, yada, yada or as Bizi would say bla, bla, bla!

"do tell"...where to begin Lara.:hug:

I have been self diagnosing for about a year...the possibilities are endless imho...early altz. is one of the scariest ones I have been entertaining...but then I just learned that grief feels so much like fear. And my ANGER is a normal response to an abnormal event. ~sigh~And perhaps I have only been grieving for Michael instead of mourning for him. That perhaps I am one of the ones who is "suspended between a past for which I long and a future for which I hope"

It has been 21 years this coming January since he completed suicide!!! How can I still....still....be stuck, if that's what has happened. And, perhaps I haven't been good about SELF CARE...I haven't set boundaries regarding all things suicide....

And how can I seriously consider having another funeral for Michael just because I have no memory of his first one!!!??? And where can I find one of those pins to wear that says...Underconstruction!

I have much WORK to do...not sure I can do it myself...not sure I want to..:(

I, Alffe..am one of the reasons why you should not kill yourself. It ruins lives...if you love anyone in your life...DON"T DO IT!!!!

Dear Alffe

I am thinking of you today my friend
and sharing in your pain
I know it seems as though your life
will never be the same
I've taken the same journey before
It's a road I know too well
But someone it seemed was always there
to catch me when I fell
There were the times He carried me
when my legs were much too weak
And the times He held me close to Him
when my lips refused to speak
There were the times He was my eyes
when mine were full of tears
And all the times He comforted me
and helped me face my fears
This friend of mine is with you too
He's been there all along
Just reach for Him and take His hand
It's where you now belong

Kymberli Brady
Copywrite 1999, all rights reserved


That hand to hold can be your GOD, or you're INNER RESOLVE

Alffe i think i too have lived a life of the ACTION and not the condition

by tirelessly trying to understand the action..................i have retained the condition..............by not recognising the symptoms........

the condition lead to an action.....................[if this makes any sense then let me know lol:hug:]

quote

And how can I seriously consider having another funeral for Michael just because I have no memory of his first one!!!???


Maybe a memorial service on year twenty one anniversary is significant..............

recall and rejoice his life.......grieve and mourn his tragic death.....and use the 21 KEY to open a new chapter in YOUR life.........................

:hug:

David

How very much like you David, to reach out and help me off the floor.
Thank you...:hug: And that beautiful poem brought on the tears...but that's a good thing I'm told.

I'm going to try again, to read my new book.."Understanding Your Suicide Grief". by the good Dr.Wolfelt. I say try because I'm blinded by my tears. :(

Hugs for the room. :grouphug:

Hello junie
 

Hi dear woman, I am thinking of you, and you are not alone.I know about rejection like you do. My daughter walked out of my life with her husband and my grandchild who I have never seen. It was over a family trust. I have been bitter for a long long time. This child of mine was very close to me, until she met her husband. I do not know how to go through life without this part of my life. It has made all the troubles I have medically, harder to withstand. I do reach out now to others, and it has helped. I don't think getting down on your knees helps. We do need others in our lives to help get us through these things. I have several friends, not many who understand who comfort me. I am sorry you are hurting. I am here any time you feel like talking. I am recovering from fusion C3-7 and have some down time. Reach out and don't give up on the happiness life still has to offer. :hug: ginnie

if only we were in the same room you would see:

• I am gently touching you dear Alffe... for so clearly being human
  
• by my body language, I am shouting YES to your words dear David...
  
• I am nodding my head in understanding dear Ginnie...

Lara :hug: it is so good to see you here with us!


:sing: Addy

the hearing for dissability
 

:hug:Hi Junie, Was it you that is having trouble with benefits from Dissability and SS? You are going to your hearing in just 8 days? Do not be afraid. I was denied three times. By the time I got to my hearing, I was joyful! I couldn't wait to tell the judge and these other two men, about my conditions. I was afraid until I started to talk, and then I knew it would all turn out OK. I was so relieved, just to be able to tell them what had happened to me. I was granted my dissability. The truth did set me freee. Good luck to you Ginnie

Oh Alffe- you hit it all with a tee! Exactly, exactly how I feel so often. I am always always always the caregiver, and rarely am I the one cared for. It gets so frustrating, especially when I was growing up and a teen (back when you first knew me) since I was a parentified child growing up without anyone at all taking care of me. Now that I am an adult, sometimes its nice to have someone tell you "it's going to be ok" or "you can do it" or whatever else support people need to hear. Especially when sick too . . . it's always nice to get that warmed up bowl of soup from a caring person or family member, which never really happens to me. So a way of dealing with that, is to justify it and tell myself - oh I am so tough and strong, I don't need any of that baloney/bolagna ;) but sometimes you really can't help it, can you? The little itty bitty in you comes out needy and craving someone elses care. *sigh it's a catch 22. Oh well - all in all - I think I am doing okay adjusting to the independence my life threw at me. Or am I just rationalizing? :cool:

Oh dear girl...I really believe that you have a handle on it. That doesn't mean that you have to do it alone, always be the strong one...yada, yada...I remember so well that 15 yr. old girl that was you...trying to hang on in spite of everything you had on your plate. I remember Pter having a fit in an email to me about a 15 yr old "child", hanging out in a suicide chat room!! LOL..we really did take our "roles" seriously...he fathered everyone back then, and I tried to mother you all.

I'm sorry you are sick...it's ok to be like a turtle on its' back. I think you are teriffic! :hug:

Oh Alffe ... I feel your pain, in so many different ways, but I do. I am underconstruction too - would love a pin - maybe a "BEWARE - under construction" one? I don't think it has to be suicide, I really don't. It's just losing someone you care about so much, grief, that affects us so terribly. I can't imagine losing a partner, a child, but having experienced the lost of a parent has personally affected me like you can't believe. And well, sometimes you can't control when a person leaves you. And for suicide, its so much more conflicted and complex, because so many people think you could have prevented it, if if if you had done one thing differently and so on. But that's where people have to let go causet that's not true. And understand that that is just the way it is. It sucks indefinitely... but that's the way it is. And someone once told me that if someone is determined to complete a suicide, they will find a way (kind of like kids who want to have sex at a young age, you can put them on lockdown, but if there is a will there is a way). And I don't like to compare the two things, but perhaps it makes it easier for us to accept? That doesn't make it an excuse to say you shouldn't help if you can, but sometimes things are just out of our control. PS I don't know personally the circumstances regarding Alzheimers in your life, but my grandmother has it and you are definitely the sharpest tool in the box, if I ever saw one! ;) :grouphug: Alffe, if you ever need anything, you know where to find me!

PPS thanks for the kind words.

Oh wish...:hug: One of my daughters would say Don't Therapy me! But I'll take all the help I can get. I raved about this book to a friend in Madison Wi and she's asked me to review it for the SOS newsletter they put out...I have such mixed emotions about this...am struggling with the book because it's so "right on"....he really does get it and I am reading it in very small doses because it is so intense. And I wonder (wrong thread) about that boundaries thing...I wonder if I can say no because it is putting pressure on me (never her intention)...enough is enough...sometimes it is too much. And thank you for the kind words!

I think if we are honest with ourselves we are ALL under construction. Each of us who frequent this refuge, each have a different story and each have different needs. Those needs change sometimes on a daily basis.
It takes ALL of us supporting each other. When one falls another is there to pick them up. Then when that person feels like they are drowning another throws them a life preserver.
Sometimes we cant be supportive and thats ok too. Sometimes people only lurk and draw strength from reading here. You never know what good you do.
You just never know........:hug:

You are so right Goofy and thank you for saying that! :hug: