Why do some people kill themselves?
 

Found this in Botty's news forum. Interesting read.

Why do some people kill themselves?

I found the article interesting. I still don't know why my cousin killed herself. She was never the same after her husband died and we all knew she was depressed but was getting treatment. Many years later she went for a job interview and didn't get the job. She went home, parked the car in the garage still running and killed herself. They found her after not being able to get in touch with her. She had one frozen tear on her cheek.

We'll never know why. She had grandchildren, a daughter in the hospital, everyone loved her. She had to feel so lost.

"Most people who commit suicide have a mental disorder - anorexia, major depressive disorder, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia and borderline personality disorder are the most common, but an elevated suicide risk is part and parcel of many of the others, too. People who kill themselves also generally feel deeply depressed and hopeless at the time."

Yes.... I remember that the 2 times I was really close to kill myself was because I was feeling deeply depressed and hopeless...

Im sure there is something in my brain too, like low serotonin, that sort of made me feel "out of my mind" and for seconds forget that I have a mom who loves me, a dad.. two dogs that need me... Is like my mind was blocked and the only thing I had was bad and sad thoughts like "Im alone... nobody cares about me... I dont have friends... Everything I do is wrong.... I have nothing... I have nobody.... I hate myself" Even when as like I mentioned, I do have at least, my mom...

I dont know... it's just weird... I remember that I wanted to die but suddenly started to think about my past and God... so, I started crying and feel sorry for me... Then, I decided I just should try to sleep and forget about trying to kill me...

Is like my brain "disconnected" from reality and all I wanted was to die but I was like in a schock... dont know... weird.

:(

thank you Doody..that really was interesting!

Ok, so now we have anexoria, bipolar, doctors, (http://www.doctorswithdepression.org/)
Iraq war survivors, students, old people, wall streets economists,
homebuilders.......

Obviously, no one is immune. Life is precious...it's a gift! But how do you make someone feel that way if they feel it's more trouble than it's worth.

BlueMajo I'm so glad you didn't act on those thoughts.

Sandy it seems like so often I hear about someone getting treatment for their depression and completing suicide in the process. A psychiatrist
who deals specifically with depressed patients said recently that he considers himself a survivor of suicide because so many of his patients killed themselves.

http://www.afsp.org/images/Homepage_.../nssd_home.jpg

Thanks for the article, Doody.

I can't help but wonder if this has anything to do with the warnings on some of these medications? I know the medications they put me on state:

"Suicidality and Antidepressant Drugs

Antidepressants increased the risk of suicidal thinking and behavior (suicidality) in children, adolescents, and young adults in short-term studies of major depressive disorder (MDD) and other psychiatric disorders. Anyone considering the use of Lexapro or any other antidepressant in a child, adolescent, or young adult must balance this risk with the clinical need. Short-term studies did not show an increase in the risk of suicidality with antidepressants in adults beyond age 24; there was a reduction in risk with antidepressants compared to placebo in adults aged 65 and older. Depression and certain other psychiatric disorders are themselves associated with increases in the risk of suicide. Patients of all ages who are started on antidepressant therapy should be monitored appropriately and observed closely for clinical worsening, suicidality, or unusual changes in behavior. Families and caregivers should be advised of the need for close observation and communication with the prescriber. "

And on the insert that came with my medicine:

"You may have thoughts about suicide when you first start taking an antidepressant, especially if you are younger than 24 years old. Your doctor will need to check you at regular visits for at least the first 12 weeks of treatment with Lexapro.

Call your doctor at once if you have any new or worsening symptoms such as: mood or behavior changes, anxiety, panic attacks, trouble sleeping, or if you feel impulsive, irritable, agitated, hostile, aggressive, restless, hyperactive (mentally or physically), more depressed, or have thoughts about suicide or hurting yourself."

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

thanks for this article, doody. :hug:

and thanks everyone else for sharing your thoughts...

it IS very interesting and I want to add something that I was thinking about while I was reading the article.

While he pointed out the two factors, there is another factor that I have been thinking about.

Remember that cult where the leader was able to pursuade everyone to commit suicide?

SUPPOSEDLY, they did it to meet the aliens? (Am I correct?)

now, that's one aspect of suicide that have always been interesting to me. It sounded like these people were "happy" because they belonged to a "club"(But were they truly happy or just emotional prisoners) and yet, while they seem "sound" and "happy", and I recall a few of them were doctos or something. I wonder what was going through their minds when they all committed suicides together.

In the second reasoning of how hard it must be to make that decision.

I think about the world trade center bombing when some of them have decided to jump off instead of getting burned alive. Surely they weren't suicidal (or predisposed) but that was a way out instead of the other way.

So many questions, all interesting...but all deadly and leaves nothing but pain for the survivors...

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

I have heard of many people who try to commit suicide to try and get rid of the voices in their head

doody....good question why do some people kill theselves?


another question...why do some people kill other human beings..?

Why in 17th centuray church was suicide deemed self murder and haneous too god, where before the church saw this act as Martyrdom...Many Catholic Saints could been seen as those who instigated their own death,,[suicide]


Why is it a person can take the life of another human being in a moment of blind rage...............and escape punishment because the act was an act of Diminished resposibility

Yet a suicide victim....is often not seen after the event of having any just cause or reason to commit such an act upon themselves.

Like Moi pointed out did the WTC 'falling man' ...COMITT SUICIDE OR DID HE AVOID AN AGONISING MURDER that was about to happen.

Did the countless Jewish women in German concentration camps, who took their own life to prevent the humiliation of rape, or the daily fear of in-humaity towards them by their captors............should they be seen as suicide victims ..or .matyrs....even .. heros.....



SUICIDE ...........such a small word........such a huge meaning.

DAVID

I will ask for forgiveness in advance in case I offend anyone. But, am I the only one that can see, there is a huge difference between taking ones life because you just give up........ and instances like those poor souls who jumped from the WTC building to avoid burning to death? You just can not compare the two. IMHO.

nik,

I am not offended at all...

But I also wonder about the Kamikazes and the suicide bombers. They did those voluntarily...(I have thoughts on them for I have been studying those for awhile now but tis not a good night to get into it)

I think what David and I are trying to get to is the different spectrums of suicide thoughts and what propels them.

A person who is terminally ill vs someone who is healthy physically but ill mentally.

It's good to ask questions and get it out.

(((BIG HUGS))) dear friend. It's a rough day/night for you and I hope you keep on venting....

Thank you for understanding me ((Moi)) :hug: I guess my mind is stuck in today, and Dad's suicide. Cuts a bit too close for me to ponder on right now I am thinking. But yes I agree, questions are always good!!! How else can answers ever be found? Much love my friend:hug:

nik,

it's OK... :)

I think it's always good to question like we're doing and it's good to question like you're doing...

but we all are wondering about ONE question:

"WHY"

why for those of us that want to do it and why for those of us that are survivors

and the WHY's of culture and mental states and how it all works....

I wonder why some people would want to take out other people when they commit suicide. Like those shooters that kills many others before they kill themselves...

I have heard some people argue that that is NOT suicide but self-murder and I have to bite my tongue a bit because it is such a touchy subject because I so much feel for the victims but I wonder at why it drove those shooters to that state of mind...

it's a tough one...

if one argues that suicide is taking ONE's LIFE, then, why do they take OTHERS??

So, there are just so many spectrums and questions and I think Doody's post has really made me think it out loud vs thinking it to myself...

:)

according too medical dictionaries

[B][I]Definition of Suicide
Suicide: The act of causing ones own death. Suicide may be positive or negative and it may be direct or indirect. Suicide is a positive act when one takes ones own life.

Suicide is a negative act when one does not do what is necessary to escape death such as leaving a burning building.

Suicide is direct when one has the intention of causing ones own death, whether as an end to be attained, or as a means to another end, as when a man kills himself to escape condemnation, disgrace, ruin, slow death etc.

Suicide is indirect (and not usually called suicide) when one does not desire it as an end or a means, but when one nevertheless commits an act which courts death, as in tending someone with SARS knowing that they may well succumb to the same illness.


Nik-key the analogy of the 'Falling man' was an example of the tradgerdy of taking ones life wether purposefuly or accidently and not meaningfully.

That poor mans death certificate has 'death by suicide' on it Fact.... NOT DEATH BY ESCAPING MURDER BY FIRE [instigated by terrorists committed to taking their OWN lives and potentialy thousands of others in an act of suicide and murder. ]

OUR AIMS are similar Nik-key, we both want to prevent any form of Suicide...because of the mess and devestation it leaves behind............but both from a different perspective...........

i survived my own dilema.............if i can prevent further dilemas......or deter others through my experience.........then i will ............

you have surived your Fathers Suicide.................you have a message as well ................and your message will deter many.......i promise you...


but we both have a place...................[.if not then suicide will always be out there, because people will not accept the other side of the coin]

Im sorry i tried nearly 17 years ago i'm sorry i tried at 13 years old..........i'm sorry that without medication i feel suicdal ...........[and that seems selfish too many]


BUT when a cure arrives to take these thoughts of death by ones hand away..is here...........i give you my word i will be first in the queue.


David

ps.....for all those budding theologans out there [ baring in mind i was once contemplating the preisthood]so its not a slur on religion but yet another thing to contemplate over...............

Did Jesus committ suicide or did he knowingly walk into the hands of murder'ers [even telling others before hand that a cruel death was his fate]


Did he not say he was preparing to shed his blood to free others............

nik,

cover your eyes for this post or skip it...Just a warning...

.
.
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I am trying to put myself in that person who just jumped off one of the Twin Towers and I am wondering at that precise moment for that person to reach that decision...

I am trying to put myself in a position where I am terminally ill...I may one day have cancer again, who knows...but for now, I am good...but it does scare me...

so, it is easier for me to put myself in that position if the doctor tells me I am going to die in a few months, and I am in grave pain to the point that I cannot move....

I now am thinking, in those moments...what would my decision be...

If I was trapped on that tower and it was hot and I knew that there was NOT another way out, I would jump. Because it would be on my term...

if I was given a death sentence, I would choose to end my own life. ON my term...

the difference between those and choosing to end life in other ways is that the situations become different...

I think about when I first tried and the last time I tried it. And as I am reflecting, my reasoning has changed.

The first time, when I was 14, it was because I thought that was it for me. That at age 14, that WAS going to be my life the rest of my life. I couldn't walk, I was isolated, and I was in bed all the time...life seemed pretty dark...

the last time I tried it, I was alone also, but for a different reason...part of it was also I was in love with someone that I just didn't have a chance with...and my heart was broken...

and all the times that I THINK about it between the times and after the times that I tried. Those times are a little bit different...

sometimes, it could be simply something as a trigger that can send me flying...but I can CONTROL those urges...

I am NOT sure, til this day WHY I did try those few times...I have to tell you, it took every ounce of my being to try those times. It was NOT easy...

I even tried to talk myself out of it....getting to that point was like rolling a dice and saying F* it....

I look at my average temper and there are times when I get really angry and all I see IS red and I would say F* it even though the decision would be horrible consequences which I actually DO know what the outcome would be...

I'd still say, F* it....

as I've gotten older, those F* it moments are far and inbetween now...

anyways, just thinking out loud....I have been insomnic again...hate these cycles...

David, that's a good question you've raised about Jesus...I think Ghandi knew he was going to die also...

the thought of martyrdom is something else that is interesting in this suicide spectrum....

BJ, it's good to see you coming into the light....

((((HUGS))))

judging?? They would have to go through moi first...(and I am sure David, and nik, and Alpho, and...well, the list goes on and on...)

((((BJ)))) am not sure why you edited your post. I read it yesterday and was very touched by it. You speak right to my heart. And you hit on places and thoughts which I myself go through. I couldn't respond last night because my reaction to it was a powerful one. But, it was a good one. Someone out there understands ME, and how I think and feel. And I need that. I understand though, and I don't blame you in the least. There are many times when I feel that I would want to do the same. What we express here is very personal. I love you dear BJ. And, yes, I am still here and I am still fighting the beast. I will fight him for the rest of my life.

I can't take the meds they dish out for depression and suicidal thoughts. So, I have to find other ways to fight it. I do it by reaching out to friends and to God. I do it by learning how to monitor my thoughts and emotions. But, there are times when there is too much going on in my life and the stress of it takes me to the breaking point. At that breaking point I have a choice. I can reach out to someone, or I can act on the thoughts. Fortunately, I have friends that I can reach out to. I have someone who knows me and watches out for me. It makes all the difference.

Its very hard to walk up to a family member and say, "I want to kill myself." You will not get a very good reaction. Besides which, it looks weak. Because you are not strong enough to do it yourself. I don't like the position that I am in. But, it is what it is. And I do the best that I can.
It would not do me any good to go to a doc or to an ER, because, as I said, I can't take the meds anyway. Been there, tried that. And that is not good when you have Chronic Major Depressive Disorder along with a lot of other stufff.
Hang on BJ, I am :hug: :grouphug: We will get through it.
I keep hoping I will find that other sidewalk. And hope is a good thing.

Such an interesting thread. :grouphug:

Amen to that
 

and so much to be learned from all perspectives.
One who stepped into
the
Light:grouphug: