Question on Nerve Conduction Study on Legs??
 

Hello,
I had a lumbar fusion in June of this year and since then have had tons of pain and numbness in my legs that actually caused me to fall flat on my face with no warning as my legs went numb and being diabetic I knew my feet were already becoming numb but never caused me to fall.
Anyway my primary doctor gave me Lyrica and it took all the pain away and since it is used to treat nerve damage pain I pretty well know what is wrong but she ordered a nerve conduction study on my legs that is later this month and a friend just told me that it was extremely painful to the point of her screaming and they gave her nothing for the pain and I wondered if anyone here has had one and what I may expect because I am very close to calling my DR and asking for it to be cancelled as I can not handle anymore pain at this time in my life!!
Thanks in advance and sorry for the book I ended up writing!

Hi Junie~
I've had a NCV done and I didn't consider it "extremely painful to the point of screaming". It was a little uncomfortable, and once in a while there were stronger zaps, but I never even thought about screaming. Of course everyone's pain tolerance is different.

Try not to worry about it. I heard horror stories about every test and injection I had. Maybe they did me a favor, because I was expecting to be half-dead, and then it wasn't so bad.

Hang in there and let us know how you turn out! Take care!
Hugs,
Jan :)

I had an EMG and an NCV and it did get to be painful. I wasn't screaming either but it got to be very, very uncomfortable. But then I have CMT so that could account for some of that. Others with CMT have said the same thing and then there are those that it didn't bother. I think it probably, in a person with CMT, depends on the type they have.

Kitt

Thanks for your replies......my friend has PN I know in her legs.....and I know the pain was real to her so thats why I am worried......I am such a coward after that horrible fusion that left me afraid to walk in public and frustrated that after 9 falls not one of my 3 doctors has ordered any X Rays when my pain is worse now then ever in my life and according to what I have read I am supposed to be able to walk a mile at 1 month post op and its more then 3 months post op and I can't manage 1/10 of a mile :(

Not so bad
 

Junie,
The test is uncomfortable, but the test leaves no lasting pain. They use very short electrical zaps and while I don't like them, I certainly never thought of screaming. It isn't something any of us like but it is necessary for the doctors to find out what is wrong and how extensive the nerve problem is. I understand your pain because we all share the same problem. I've had about three of these and also one on my hands. And if they tell me I need another one, I'll do it. Also, I've never read or heard of anyone being given anything for pain for this test.

Billye

Here is a site which might help. You can Google others as well using NCV.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/003927.htm

Hope this helps.

Kitt

I had one three yrs ago, and was supposed to go again two months ago. I cancelled it. the zapping was what bothered me. I could handle the sticks with the needles, most of them, I couldnt feel. the electrical current however...bothered me as much as chewing on tin foil with your teeth. I hate shocking sensations. Particularly when my feet were icy cold, as they usually always are. I pray for the day they develop a much more suitable test for everyone to "enjoy":eek: :p

My husband had the test years ago.
 

Hi. My husband Alan had his nerve test done when he applied for Social Security Disability. I knew what he would go through because I had one also.

So the person giving the test is zapping his feet and he is just sitting there. No reaction. Now my husband has had PN for 18 years or so.
He had to go on a fentanyl pain patch for the pain in his feet.

so Alan is just sitting there asking the guy "when are you going to start?". the guy just shook his head. Only when the guy went up past his ankles did Alan go "whoa", and we all laughed. the guy said "well, thank god".

Alan kept saying to me "why did you think I wouldnn't like this test"???

Seems many people with PN are numb so this test is not that bad at all.

Now in my case. I had a pain in my upper shoulder. My doctor sent me for one of these tests. Wanted to see if there was nerve damage or something, I would assume. I also have a lot of anxieties, take xanax for a dental phobia and I admit I can be a pain in the butt about pain of any sort.

Now I had taken the test years and years before for carpal tunnel syndrome and I remembered I did not like the test way back then.

The test on my arm was about 7 or 8 years ago. I'm sitting on the table and the whole apparatus was completely different from when I had had the carpal tunnel test years before.

This time, the nurse is holding some kind of electric prod thing and she just touches it to my arm. I said "ow". She does it again, further up and I said "ow". She does it one more time (remember, I don't have PN, so I'm not numb anywhere). When she did it that third time, I jumped off the table and threatened to punch her in the face. I walked out, went to my doctor and he was hysterical laughing. when I calmed down I started laughing too.

It's all about pain threshhold. If you have PN, chances are you are numb like my husband so it won't be a big thing. He has told me "I would take this test again in a heartbeat".

See how different we all are??

mel

My tests NCV and EMG were done in 1986. I wasn't numb then and I'm still not. However, I know there are many with CMT who are. I wasn't thrilled with the test at all; especially toward the end of it. I told my regular doctor that if you weren't dancing when you went in, you were when you went out. The end of the test was a bit much for me. And I can stand pain. I think it depends on the type of CMT a person has; and there are many types. And also whether CMT affects the mylelin or the nerve directly. (Types again). I agree, we are all different.

Kitt

We should round up all the guys who do these tests!!!
 

Wanna know what I think!!

Some day, we should get all these people who do the tests and make them sit down and give them the test.

Maybe then, they wouldn't be so matter of fact about it!!!

just my opinion.
mel

Hey, I'm with you on that one:p Sounds like a good idea and I've thought that more than once or twice.

Kitt

Hi Junie. I had a NCV several years ago. I won't lie, it hurt like hell but it had to be done. They started at my toes and went up my back/spine area. When she got to upper back I about bit the blood out of my hand.

I have much pain all the time, but the good part of this is when they are over with they are OVER!!

I don't think they can give you anything because they are trying to see where the pain is and where it hurts worse or if at all etc.

Now I'm no stranger with pain, can take most anythng up to a point, but this got a bit past "a point". I have many other injections in the spine, nerve blocks, and other precedures, but I may groan, but hurts too bad to scream!

If you have ever had a mamagram done, you know they put your breast on a shelf like thing, then they screw those 2 plates together to the point of wanting to scream, but the nurse always says"don't move"!!:eek: Like I could?? thats what I tell the nurse, no need to tell me not to breath. couldn't if I wanted to:D

So, the test hurts, but some worse than others, but when they "hit the right spot" they sure as heck knew it:p

Go on and take the test, have someone standing at the door with your strongest meds, as soon as its over take meds with water before you dress.

When they tell me I"will be uncomfortable " I know whats coming:D

You'll make it dear, I'm still here to tell about it. Let us know how it goes and if they were able to find what they needed to do about your condition.

good luck, Jo

Or you can do what I did. say "touch me again and I'll punch you in the face".

Works every time.


But seriously, when I hopped off the table and said what I said, the person looked at me and said "I know, I know, some people find this a tad uncomfortable". That's when I wanted to take the electrodes and put them on her (nah, can't do that, too horrible).

Honestly, if you have PN and are numb, it will probably be like what happened to my husband. He never felt a blessed thing until they got up past his ankle.

He has had two of these tests and the results were always the same.

His feet are so numb, one time he went to the podiatrist and he had to do some work on a bad toe and the doctor said "I have to give you an injection" and I told the doctor, Don't bother, he can't feel anything." The doctor did not believe him. Well, the doctor did the work on the toe and looked at my husband and said "are you serious, you can't feel this". And Alan said "why, what are you doing?"


true story.

mel

On The Other Hand.....
 

The first time I had it, about a month after onset...I felt the needle electrodes, not much else. The second time 9 months after...well I kept waiting for something...tech told me after a while "ALL DoNE!" I guess that means I'm REALLY NUMB? My view is that if you feel it enuf to complain...well, to me: THAT'S A GOOD THING! You've got some nerve left!

Now when I'd had the same test for carpal tunnel a few years ago, the weirdest part was watching the muscles 'twitch' on their own..That was freaky. - j

Ncs/emg
 

Hi,
I think I've had 6 or 7 NCS/EMG's since PN onset 6 years ago.. (even had two in a row once because there was such a radical change from about 6 months earlier the doctor thought the machine was broken and did the whole thing over on different equipment - real fun)... what I've found is that it really depends on the doctor doing the test.... seems like each one has their own technique - some were really quite painless - one hurt so much I was shaking so bad when it was over someone had to tie my shoes I so wimpy..... but overall - have found them a necessary evil and have really helped my doctors track the progression of my PN......

(beware of residents - I had a resident start a test once before my neuro came into the room - I have no sensory nerve conduction in my feet or hands, and she have known that if she had looked at pror tests - but didnt - just kept cranking up the current until my body was literally jumping off the table because she couldnt get a response) - the doc came in - grabbed the equipment away from her and saved me - nothing needed to be said at that pont!

Anyway, overall I find them a helpful necessary "evil" and for the short periods of pain they give you - the benefits of the test definately outweight them.....
KMEB:cool:

If I ever saw that resident who cranked up your juice, I would punch him in the face.

And I'd love doing it!!!!

And I am NOT a violent human being. Believe me.


but jeeezzzz, give me a break!!!!

mel

Of course, we'd all love medico's to ENJOY...
 

the experience. Also maybe experience the joy's of PN! If only for an hour...

The plus side of going thru it all is that when those darling tests show something at least it proves, to a point, that it's NOT in our HEADS!

That all said and done, tests done do NOT always immediately show problem patterns. My guess is that the internal damage is either not complete or may be in the healing process. Small fiber neuropathies are often proven only thru biopsies, and results are valid ONLY when done under strict protocols. If those protocols aren't followed JUST SO, it's a waste of money and effort.

Further, there is research that indicates the room temp. where the test is conducted can adversely affect true nerve conduction results. Meaning if the room is too cold, you'll get good #'s when you shouldn't..[J. Kelly, Head Neuro Dept; G.W.U. Hosp.]. I'll see if I can dig up that paper-an interesting read.

Hope this puts your mind to ease, aside the fact that it probably should be gotten over with. - j

Found a short discussion on NCS & Temp...
 

These site addresses are long:
http://www.onecallmedical.com/PDFs/E...dy%20Kelley%22

Another useful site is from an ins co:
http://www.cigna.com/health/provider...dy%20Kelley%22

Hope these help - j

and,
 

Melody - I'll take you along next test!!!! Actualy, I was getting ready to start yelling at the resident myself because my goal for that test was not to end up looking like the bride of frankenstein from the voltage - but I think the docs "look "at the resident doing the test (and there as also an Attending and 2 others residents watching her zap me) - which was obivously - I will deal with you later - probably ruined her day....!

Dahlek is right - the temperature in the room is supposed to be regulated to get acccurate results, and usually I find they use a lamp on my legs especially to warm them and take the skin temp first to be able to maintain a consistency of test results.....

Also, yes, having objective proof that those there nerves do not work says volumns, and also watching the progression of the disease in this manner is helpful..... a little bit of pain for lots of potential information to me is worth it...

:)

Thank you all so much.....I m overwhelmed by all the replies.......but I will admit I am still scared as I had no less then 25 atempts to have an IV started before they put in the cental line (which 2 clumsy nurses ripped out as they were flipping me all around and i was ordered to lie flat and still) and I hate needles....and no way can I tolerate this test without my pain meds and Lyrica so I just don't know. My numbness is scattered in my feet and legs...toes are complete and the total loss of feelings the many times I fell. I may just ask her to postpone it since it is so soon after my horrible experience at that hosp......I was treated so badly and suffered so much pain that I wanted to die! I was a nurse before the endless pain made me quit so I do know how I should be treated and I am very paranoid and scared for now.:confused:

OH! Junie - you did get the very shortest end of the stick!
 

OOPS! I really, really didn't mean that as a pun...more fact-of-life thing.
Well, EX-NURSE Junie, DID ya complain? I would have thought folks'd taken you more seriously than those of us who 'really have nothing wrong'...well, you get my drift. Hopefully you changed hospitals! Please say yes!

Before you cancel tho... I for one, don't recall having any IV's or other apparatus during NCS's...am I losing it here? IF you are soo anxious about it how about asking for a 'happy-type pre-med'? For other med issues I had multiple MRI's, Went in for one more - and since it was FACE DOWN ...well I went into full stage-2 panic mode. Next time...pre-med=NO problem. There are lots of meds that won't affect the NCS at all. Why not ask? [Be sure to tote a hair-dryer for pre-heating if the room is cold...docs just don't think of these practical matters...they would if it really cost them $$'s tho] Humm, I just remember the 'sticky conductor things' and the 'needle things' for the different tests, none was awful in themselves.

This is a real issue - talk to your doc before the test and take the measure to keep it all at bay and get the whole thing over with. Then, you can keep the whole thing from going sour when it really didn't need to. Hang in there! - j
PS I used to for 1/2 of my life go out 'COLD' after I'd had a needle [shots, blood draws...etc] Now I get IVIG MONTHLY...just can't watch the 'thing' going in...

When I had mine the nurse, or technian, was telling me that they can set the zaps at different levels.

I noticed that she set them quite high for the leg where I had significantly less feeling, and I wondered if she had not, if the test would have shown more ... damage.

It didn't hurt at all, though. Just these tiny little shocks, almost less than the shocks from walking on a carpet and getting those little shocks afterwards when you touch something.

I wonder if it would be all right to take Ibuprofen or something beforehand.

I took 800 mg of Ibuprofen before going to the dentist on Tuesday, and it was great. :)

I just don't know if it would interfer with the testing.

Anybody know?

Oh Junie, you poor thing. I think, with all our horror stories, we made it worse for you.

I take a xanax before any dental treatment. I couldn't walk in the door of a dental practice if I didn't do this. I go to a dental phobia specialist.

Now let's talk about your upcoming nerve conduction thingee!!!

Why not telephone the place where it's being done, voice your concerns and ask if you might take a pre-med. That's what I would do.

I don't abuse meds in any way. I won't even take an aspirin and forget about a vicodin or percocet. Can't go to the bathroom on those and I'd rather go to the bathroom. But then again, I don't have the kind of neuropathy most people on these boards have.

My problem mainly is being a neurotic italian girl who is petrified of the dentist.

Hope you are able to take something before your appointment, or if you really dont' think you can go through with it, just postpone it.

I mean, this is not life or death here, right? Maybe a week pampering yourself nicely is needed.

or you can simply take a pre-med, go and have the test and reward yourself with something spectacular afterward.

That's what I do when I complete a dental appointment. I get a massage or a pedicure. Alan thinks I'm out of my mind to be afraid of the dentist but this is MY problem, not his.

We all have our fears, whether it's needles, doctors, whatever. We do the best we can.

So YOU do whatever is in YOUR best interest.

love, Melody

Junie
 

Didn't mean to make you worry more! I do know, from talking to techs while waiting for my tests - that some people do use pre-medication for pain and others take anti-anxiety.... having to have so many iv starts would have been a nghtmare and I think much more painful then these tests!

They do usually start with the zaps at the lowest level - to see how sensitive you are - and then increase it until they find the right measure for you.... and, the shocks are very fast.... the emg portion again depends on the doc - I find that they usually leave one that might hurt the worst for the last, and by then your a pro...

As suggested - call and let them know your concerns - if you dont do it now you'll just have to reschedule and again, the tests can tell the docs quite a lot..... maybe use a combo of tylenol and an anti-anxiety or something?????

Hang in there! (you know what helps me get thru tests I dont like? - like MRI's - music - I always take a cd and make sure the mri has headphones - then I find myself trying to not sing along so i dont move instead of concentrating on the test - If you have an MP3 player or other - see if you can bring it amd just concentrate on the music - not whats being done to you!)


KMEB

Bring your IPOD!!!!
 

Yeah, I agree. I forgot to tell you. At my last dental cleaning, before I got there, I took my xanax. I sat in the chair shaking like a leaf until the xanax kicked in. The hygienist knows I'm a severe dental phobic.

I'd say things like "you know I'm phobic, right?????" she would just smile and softly say "don't worry, you'll be fine".

So I plugged in my ipod. I was so relaxed that when my dentist (I LOVE MY DENTIST), popped in to say hello, I was so engrossed in the music he burst out laughing. He had to shake me. I looked up and said "oh, HI!!!. that's when I realized she was giving me a scaling".

The music actually took my mind off of my phobia.

Now I know that this isn't exactly like a nerve conduction test but believe me, to some people a visit to the dentist makes them go nuts!!!

So if you have a music player, pop it on, plug it in and you should be good to go. The test doesn't last long, really!!!!

mel

Boy, that is very very impressive... a scaling and you didn't feel it because of the music. I want to learn to do that!

Besides using the ipod, It's all about the topical numbing gel that a dental hygienist is supposed to use before she starts scaling away.

I do believe that if they didn't use that topical numbing gel (and a good amount too), well, I'd just jump off the chair and punch somebody in the face, now wouldn't I??????

be well
Melody

That gel sounds good.

I am so scared about dental problems.

I was so sick with the tetanus that I could barely be up at all, and so obviously I didn't brush. Couldn't.

But I got the most horrible infection where I had my implants.

I took the little pegs out and took major amounts of vitamin c which controlled the infection.

But... I've had this feeling as if I have an abscess or something on the top of my mouth.. and I get so tired and my eyes burn... so I think those are signs of an infection.

Okay, so at the dentist's this week it turns out that my gums have grown over the implants, totally covering them, and the bone around them is ... disappearing. I think it must be whatever it is that it does to disappear that makes me feel sick.

They're going to have to cut into my gums to check out the situation... and I'm terrified that they will have to ... I don't know... I don't know how they are going to deal with the problem when it's so deep.

I'm thankful for your posts...

CT, do not pass go! Ask your dent for a ...
 

2nd opinion [get 2-4 names] and see a periodontist...That is a GUM GUY! Does nothing but.. Even if you've an abcess which your dentist treats. Gum infections especially among the immune compromised are very dangerous. This is not meant to scare you, just to be aware that things could get worse. Therefore you have to be your own advocate and search for the specialists who deal with that corner of your multiple problem world. Having had 'scaling' done by my dentist's ofc and a periodontal office-well- the perio office really does THE JOB hands down.

I've learned from my dentist that many of their patients on anti-epileptic drugs develop rapid tooth decay and gum problems.. I've been using and use diligently the Oral-B rotating tooth brush and have now been told to use the Water-Pik as I don't brush well [can't floss-due to no finger feeling], To keep as much evil bacteria as possible at bay. I just wish I had enuf room on the bathroom sink for all the 'rechargable' things! At this point What's one more?

Melody- Yes!!! The topical number stuff is great! - I marvel that I get a different flavor each time! Sure beats the gag/splutter into the tech's face. -j

Thank you for the spur in the right direction. Luckily my dentist made an appointment for a consult with a periodontist, and I was so happy to hear that a consult is free. :)

I am sure that what you wrote must be true about gum infections. I just had no idea there was something wrong under my gums. (It weirds me out to think about it.)

I know I'm a bit of a drone on the B12, but I did have a lot less plaque after I had a higher B12 level, after I began having B12 replacement. Do you take much Methylcobalamin? (that's the active form)

I didn't see any plaque... I just never guessed it was totally under my gums where they grew over my implants. Weirds me out. (I'm assuming that's what's caused the bone loss aroung the implants.)

Thank you so much for writing... I need to stop feeling so weirded out over this. Thank you! :)

Thanks so much for all the support and yes this is a different hosp., I would not let my dogs go to the other one! When I was suffering it was because I was alone there (I told my dh who is terminal with heart disease to stay home since I just knew the nurses would take care of me...bad mistake) and as I was told I had to lie flat and be still for 5 days my mouth quickly was glued shut by ack of water and they brought me 3 trays of reg food a day and left it out of my reach and when poor dh finally got enough water in me so I could talk he was livid and made sure he was there at every meal....never have I saw such lazy nurses...plus I got 2 baths in 9 days and one was from my CNA sis! The NS was out of town therefore could not use the locaL hosp.....but it was the worst exerience of my life and when I was able to talk I raised holy hell with them and when they tried to withold my pain meds i simply showed them my cell phone and let them know my docs number was in it! I guess it just did something to me and now I am somewhat paranoid and my back hurts worse then ever since the fusuion and I am still on heavy meds but no Xanax! I called the doc today and explained I am going through way too much right now and asked for test to be post poned...they agreed. Just after my last post I was having lunch with my 18 y/o ds and suddenly began to choke and I panicked and was waving my arms wildly, and for a minute he just looked confused and then shoved a bottle of water at me....and I knew I was going to die since he never had CPR and the craziest things went through my mind when he had this look that he finally understood I was in real trouble and just as I was blacking out he got behind me and place his arms around my ribcage and began to squeeze upward, each time ( maybe 5 or 6) a bit harder when the food came out...and it was deeply lodged in my wind pipe. I then asked him if he took CPR in high school and he said know so I guess he picked it up in movies???? I am so proud of him..he actually saved my life as I was helpless and once he knew..he did it perfect. I was so shook up that I cried all afternoon and then slept until 9pm.
Anyway, sorry for the book. Thanks again for all the help!

God Bless That 18 Year Old!!!!!1
 

Now as soon as he is able, tell him to take a CPR class!!!!!

That is one less thing you have to worry about. And he will have a valuable gift that will stay with him the rest of his life. My Alan took a CPR class. Showed me every single thing when he came home. I practiced on him LOL

You postponed the test!!! That's just fine. Now go and do something just for you.

Love,
Melody

Awwwww sweetie! How absolutely SCAREY for you and your son! How proud of him you must be!!

I hope this helps honey! Hang in there and know we care!
Hugs,
Jan

I just had to jump in and share what I have learned from going on the dental message boards. Those boards are exactly like these except everybody is dental phobic and if we hear some new gadget (like the Wand, which my dentist uses), or something about how to stop the spread of decay, well we like to share it with others.

A dentist on those boards explained to us about what sugar and foods with sugar (for example candy bars) does to teeth.

You can brush your teeth ten times a day and floss, but if you eat candy, drink soda pop or eat raisins, etc. etc, you will get decay and have cavities, and need route canals etc. etc.

Also, because many people are chocoholics, the timing of eating treats is very important (bet you never knew that right?).

If you have to eat anything with sugar, eat it with a meal. Not two hours after or two hours before. That's when the stuff sticks to your teeth and causes cavities. It's all about saliva production (and I really don't remember what the heck the dentist wrote on the boards ) but he was emphatic on the timing of snacks. Eat them with a meal and not after or before.

Also, brush with an electric toothbrush, not a manual one or a battery operated one. They do a better job.

If a person has good saliva production and never eats sugar laden candies or soda pop, his teeth should last a lifetime. And get your teeth cleaned twice a year.

So now that I found my phobia dentist, you'd better believe that I maintain my mouth.

I never ate any bad stuff because I'm diabetic so thank god I never cheated. Can you imagine? I'd probably be toothless by now.

And thank god for an invention called The Wand. NO more needles, syringes, whatever. It's absolutely amazing.

So I wish all of you good dental health.

And how on earth can gums grow over implants. I know many people with implants. All of them (and I mean all of them) had to have them done a second time. I have no idea what went wrong.
They paid a pretty penny for them too.

I'll always be afraid of going to the dentist, even though I really like my guy.
Thank god for xanax, that's all I can say.

love ya
Melody

P.S. Oh, here's a funny story. Alan goes out to make a wash today. I didn't see what he was wearing. I go to the laundromat and there he is in a muscle-man T-shirt with the sleeves rolled all the way up to reveal his newly muscular arms. He now wears a baseball cap backwards. Big change from a man who used to weigh 300 lbs.
As I said, he thinks he's Rocky. I told him if a blond dares to approach him, I'll scratch her eyes out!!! HE LOVES THIS!!!!!