My updates as well as new findings that may help others
 

Ive been suffering from PCS/TBI for 2 years, 2 months and 22 days.
Its an easy day for me to remember for 2 reasons, one it was new years eve and 2 it was the day my life changed forever.

To give you a brief summary I have probably had a dozen concussions from hockey, and other such activities. The most recent I received dec 28th, 2006. I was unaware of my concussion however even if I had been it probably wouldnt have changed my actions over the next couple of days. Dec 30th I took off for Mexico to celebrate new years. Upon arrival in mex I felt fine, went to bed and Dec 31st I woke up feeling as what I can describe as awaking in a dream.

Nevertheless my condition worsened in Mexico. The flight clearly took its toll on me. Once I arrived back home in Vancouver, BC I went to see my GP doctor, a clinic doctor blah blah blah all useless. I paid for a private MRI, had an EEG done, all the tests you can imagine with no luck.

Nov 17th 2007 I went to my chiropractor who had treated me for my groin injury and essentially broke down in his office. After about 5 questions he immediately said yes you have PCS and we started treatment instantly. Ironically enough im now good friends with him and we play hockey together, lol go figure. HE has helped me immensly with just his treatment as well as the laser therapy.

Later I went to a PROLOTHERAPIST who did also some minor adjustments, as well as some prolo injections in my neck. Now this is where it gets good

IF YOU'RE LAZY READ FROM HERE ON
Judging by my symptoms the Prolotherapist said to me he felt that my chiropractor had "fixed" my concussion issues, but my body had become chemically unbalanced as a result of trying to deal with a brain injury with no help for 11 months and asked me to take as NEUROSCIENCE TEST. https://www.neurorelief.com/ I did so and the results came back just as he had thought. I was suffering from Adrenal Fatigue and borderline adrenal burnout. He issued me 2 natural supplements which I have been taking for about 10 days and I can say that I am almost 100% symptom free. I cannot tell you how good it feels. Once I stop thinking about what ive gone through for the past 2 years im certain I will return to my old - self, although im having a hard time remembering what thats like.

I guess what you want to try to keep in mind is that even though you have suffered a concussion or TBI there is a possibility that once the brain is lets say "Fixed" the rest of your body has also taken a beating and needs to be "repaired" as well...

I definately suggest for everyone to take this test, its very inexpensive, and even if this isnt your only problem its a good way to see how your body levels are. - My results are at the bottom.

If you are in the vancouver area, or visiting for the olympics or just tired of lousy doctors in your area im going to recommend 2 doctors.

Dr Stefan Sigalet - 604-524-4959 "chiropractor" however to me hes capable of much more, he works on several of the Vancouver Canucks, several NHL players have flown in to see him, Todd Bertuzzi was supposed to be out for the season and visited Dr Stefan and was back on the ice 2 weeks later.

Dr Albert Kim - 604-433-0100 "Prolotherapist" his knowledge and explanations of everything put me at ease everytime I go visit him. since his help with my TBI ive had him help me with my knees, hip, neck and next visit my back... all relatively minor injuries but by dealing with them now im sure I will be in better shape as I age.

Here are my neurotest results so you can see how they look.
**I hope that this might help some of you, of course everyones case differs a lot this just worked out best for me. Good luck to all if you have any questions about how this was for me feel free to ask**

One other point I wanted to make was I asked the doctor why it was when I drank it caused me to feel more normal, im not a drinker at all, ill drink 2 times a month if that, but when I did and I was at my worst it made me feel more normal. He informed me this is due to the fact that alcohol contains dopamine and thats part of phase II of the neuroscience recovery

Good luck

I did the neuroscience thing as well back in late 2005 or so - I was on Adrecor, Travacor, and some other supplement of theirs for a couple of months, though they didn't do me a whole lot of good at the time beyond giving me a small (though appreciated) boost in energy.

Despite the fact that it didn't do much for me, I really like their philosophy. I think if I did their test now I'd get an awful lot more out of it than I did then... though I've got a few other tests I want to do beforehand. Still, I might try it again some time.

good post
 

hi mikeyy you may wish to move this post to the sicky posts on hope and healing

thanx bud

Mikeyy,

I would be very careful with the Travacor. It contains 5-HTP. Too much 5-HTP can cause serotonin syndrome which can be deadly.

Your serotonin should be monitored if you continue to take the Travacor 5-HTP.

What kind of treatment did the chiropractor do for your PCS?


Have you been informed about Second Impact Syndrome or Multiple Impact Syndrome?

I would suggest caution on the ice. Your next concussion will likely be much worse in symptoms

the chiro performed osteopathic cranial work on my head with lower level laser therapy.. I think I went to see him for about 9 months for it to a point where he felt all my strength was back...

as for Second Impact Syndrome he did tell me he felt my concussion problems were definately gone and I shouldnt have to worry about Second Impact... I was going to quit hockey indefinately but there was something about it that kept me relatively sane I guess as hard to believe as that is....

Its been over 2 years since that last one really screwed me up... Ive been hit a cpl times (im the goalie) and just gone to see him the next day and nothing has really come back....

Mark I wanted to tell you I was in Sun Valley Idaho about 4 weeks ago playing hockey up there, we landed in Boise and took the 2 hr trip, not sure if thats close to where you are but the people were just amazingly friendly to us Canucks! it was great to play in Idaho! :)

Excellent post Mike! Man, so many different ways to alleviate PCS and the doctors I have spoken to say they have nothing for me except physical therapy and various scans for diagnosis?! I'll do the various treatments that have been proven effective and let them know how I did it after the fact :)

I wouldn't be terribly concerned about that - the NeuroScience test measures the levels of serotonin (among many other nuerotransmitters) in the brain, then prescribes dosages of 5-htp, 7-Keto DHEA, and etc... that are appropriate for the situation. They don't just say "you're low on serotonin, take as much 5-htp as you can get your hands on."

I'm wondering about this serotonin syndrome, particularly as it relates to 5-htp. I've always understood 5-htp as being nothing more that a precursor to serotonin, and have been told (though this was some time ago) that any 5-htp ingested above and beyond what the body needs (within reason, anyway) will just not be converted into serotonin and get flushed out of the system. This part of the 5-htp wikipedia page says that it requires other drugs to be taken at the same time in order for the serotonin syndrome to arise... what've you heard on it?

Second Impact Syndrome
 

Mikeyy,

I hate to rain on your parade but you chiropractor may be great at chiropractic but he does not understand the physiology of concussion.

There is no way of avoiding second impact syndrome. You are not fully healed. There have been many studies since the 1970's to show this fact. One was reported on in the British literature, I think it was vini's post.

He may help you through the minor issues of getting hit while playing hockey but you still have a history of concussion.

The most important concern you should have is a game where you have multiple light hits. They can be more damaging than one bad hit. The soccer studies have shown that to be true. A soccer heading drill with many light headers is often more damaging that the occasional hard header.

Interesting that your chiro called it Low level laser therapy. My wife has been treated with light therapy. It sounds exactly the same, a light in a spectrum that penetrates the skin without heating the skin but provides an ultra-sonic like stimulation to the tissues except using light waves rather than sound waves.

One of the big benefits I believe can come out of chiropractic therapy for a head injury is indirect. By improving the alignment of the spine, especially the cervical spine, blood flow to the brain in improved. The vertebral arteries can be partially obstructed by cervical inflammation. When the chiropractor reduces this inflammation, the brain gets better profusion and gets a better chance to heal.

BTW, I am in the Boise area. I have a house about ten miles west of Boise airport right under the flight path. I prefer to be at my mountain cabin that is 100 miles due north of my city home on the 45 parallel.

The people are real nice here. Regarding my earlier comment about raining on your parade, I guess you are used to rain living in Vancouver. Pretty area if you can survive the Canadian health system.

tis a good point about the soccer player, I can recall heading the ball a few times and feeling a little off.. I played soccer for over 20 years but couldnt handle the cold games anymore...

as for the comments about the history of concussion, it does make sense, but unfortunately as I mentioned before playing the game keeps me sane, partially in shape, and really gives me something to look forward to

Is it worth going through pcs again? not at all... I really dont know why I even play anything anymore....

for the love of the game
 

hi mikeyy for the love of the game ????

for the love of your brain ??? on reading the headway research and knowing all that you do from the last 2 + years its hard to give up something you love, but nice to still have the choice, there's always coaching bud

Serotonin syndrome
 

5-HTP is a direct precurser to serotonin that by-passes the brain modulating system. The safe way to increase serotonin levels is with L-tryptophan. It is modulated by the brain and only converted to serotonin as the brain needs it.

Vini,
I appreciate what you're saying but I guess this is my reasoning.
The most recent concussion which I received that ended up causing the PCS was due to a go-karting accident. In fact the 2 days after the accident I was fine... it was the flight and cabin pressure that actually caused the injury... my brain was a bit swollen from the head injury, then the 2 flights to acupulco caused further pressure of my brain against my CSF&Skull causing the actual injuries...

I play goalie in hockey, and although ive taken shots to the head none have ever caused me much grief, the only thing I really was hurt was when I was run into the post...

I may sound very ignorant but the league I now play in is not dirty, most of the guys are ex-jr players who are just there to play for fun and maintain some skill.. very minimal fighting or dirty shots... I actually feel safe, and the hockey keeps my mind off of the injury.. during the first 9+months it was the only thing that would give me brief moments of freedom from thinking about it. :(

Altitude
 

MIkeyy,

The altitude in a commercial aircraft never goes above 8000 feet. The pressurization system is set to maintain an 8,000 foot altitude pressure. You body would acclimate to the altitude quite easily. If there was a pressure differential that the body did not adjust to, all of the passengers eyes would bulge out.

To only difference the pressure would make would be what is called molecular pressure. At the higher altitude, the molecular pressure ( number of molecules per unit of volume) of the oxygen is less so the number that cross the cellular membrane is less so there is less oxygen transfer. As a result, the CO2 is not swapped out and the CO2 level in the blood and tissues increases. This is sort of similar to osmosis. This can cause the sick feeling.

High Altitude Cerebral Edema is not usually a factor at altitudes of 8,000 feet and below. Since your brain is liquid and semi-liquid, it does not compress or decompress. Only gases can compress or expand due to pressure.

The next time you fly, if you notice any return of symptoms, it is because your brain has not healed. The first study of this phenomenon was done in the early 1970's using an altitude chamber. The researchers found that the subjects with a prior concussion had symptoms. Those who had not had a prior concussion, did not have symptoms.

I am highly symptomatic at altitudes of 11,000 to 12,000 feet for extended duration. I had to give up flying my unpressurized airplane and sell it for just this reason. I was making cognitive mistakes. Rarely does a pilot get a second chance after making a mistake.

Most likely, your concussion from the go-kart racing caused a diffuse axonal injury. This stresses the axons that transmit signals between the neurons. When you were at altitude, these weakened axons started misfiring even more and left you with a residual problem after the plane landed. Some of these damaged axons will never heal and leave you with a weak area. The next time you are at altitude, the symptoms might be evident. The most likely symptom would be difficulty concentrating, but only if you had a valid way of testing your concentration skills.

He issued me 2 natural supplements which I have been taking for about 10 days and I can say that I am almost 100% symptom free. [/QUOTE]

May I ask what you're taking? I've been suffering for over 21/2 years. My syptoms aren't quite as bad but I still deal with fatigue and constant dizziness and imbalance. I'm so tired of this!

May I ask what you're taking? I've been suffering for over 21/2 years. My syptoms aren't quite as bad but I still deal with fatigue and constant dizziness and imbalance. I'm so tired of this![/QUOTE]


Im still taking
5 travacor when I wake up as well as 2 Balance-D
then before dinner an additional 2 Balance-D
Prior to bed im taking Advacor

its been almost 2 months now and I can honestly say im almost back to normal... from what I can remember normal being

IM going to redo the test next month and ill post the results again

I really recommend the test to anyone!

Fantastic to hear! I strongly believe its in a large scale about the chemistry when talking about PCS.

A report from a leading swedish institute came to the conclusion that the severity of a headtrauma was NOT the thing that predicted the outcome and possible PCS. All was mTBI but with a wide range of severity at the first glance.

They took scan-results, symtoms, neurological testing and more in to consideration, but it just didnt make any sense. People with the proven more serious damage such as hemorrhages, axondamage and more and more persistent symptoms was not automatically those with the worst long term outcome!!
This has been proven in practise also. You hear people having a quite mild first concussion but still get PCS, while some people can get lots without as persistent symptoms. Ok bad example but I think you will agree.

What they DID find in the study was that persons with negative psychological factors like depression and lots else (before, during or after the incident) was more likely to end up with PCS. This is what I really have thought alot of...

The reason beeing is my father who has had the same problem with fatigue as I have. But he didnt HIT his head...

He worked in a constant stress for too long and got himself into having somekind of a stressrelated disorder. It is proven that people with this kind of "disorder" have changes in their brain-chemistry. He has been on a lot of different drugs (antidepressants mostly) that has made his brain had a chance to by itself level out the imbalances. And now it seems it has...

The point beeing: Chemistry has more too do with our persisting symptoms than we might understand.


The really interesting part is this though:

How will the brain react if you level the balances out and keep the brain from "misfireing" or help with the reatract of glutamate for an example (through medications as you describe you use)?

Will it be fine or have the brain put itself in this recoverymode which means crossing its boundaries will harm it or prolong the "real" recovery whatever it might be...

I hate that I write soo much, its hard for people to read but Im so interested.

I cant find the report right now but If someone wants to see it I will try to get a hold of it.

Emil from Sweden

Couldnt agree more!

Stress and Stuff
 

Hi Emil - your post is interesting. I had always wondered if my state of mind at the time of my head knocks had anything to do with the PCS and I did ask several specialists - they said no but I still had my doubts.

At the time I was extremely busy at work - 2 staff members had left and I was covering their work - which made long hours. My best friend was dying of cancer, my mum was having to move into a retirement village and my brother was having tests for cancer. My husband who later left was not at all supportive. I had major stress for a long period of time and I was wondering if your brain gets locked into it? I know that I can not handle any stress what so ever now - instant bad headache etc

So I too wonder about this. there is also the theory that those with higher intelligence develop PCS due to noticing so many subtle changes in the brain. Maybe it is the combination of both?

Lynlee

Chemistry and PCS
 

There is definitely a connection between brain chemistry at the time of impact and the PCS intensity. The brain under stress does not properly metabolize and excrete the results of metabolism. There is also adrenaline and other chemical processes that go on at higher levels. the byproducts of the stress related functions do not get completely purged from the brain. As a result, the brain is in a weakened state and less able to tolerate and recover from impacts. Depression is a symptom of this chemical pollution. PTSD is similar except it causes physiological changes too.

Now comes an impact. The brain is polluted with these various chemicals. It is like having the flu and hay-fever allergies at the same time. Both conditions are magnified because of the weakened immune state. The brain is just the same. It needs to go through a healing process but is still overwhelmed with the stress toxins. Not only does the healing not happen, either right away or completely, but the weakened brain cells are more prone to damage.

This was explained to me in 1982 when I had a very bad reaction to a stressful event.

This is why mTBI and PCS persons need to be diligent in their nutrition and stay away from toxins such as alcohol, exitotoxins, and stress.

Just got the results from my most recent neuroscience test, check out the differences... keep in mind I have been off the natural supplements for 2+ months, Ive actually just started taking them again

Just neat to see improvements as well as results

and for a chuckle check out my taurine levels
I find when im kinda down or having a difficult time concentrating I take an energy drink and it helps my vision mostly... but lol my level is through the roof

Mikeyy,

My adrenal test came back similar to yours, but my doc said to wait on treating it to see what the travacor and Balance D does. Can you please tell me what two supplements he put you on to help with your adrenal gland? I feel that mine is also fatigued and I might also have thyroid issues. Thanks.

Can you elaborate more? I also experience vision problems and have high taurine levels. Thanks.

I was taking Adrecor or advacor for the adrenals before but since my adrenals have come back to the normal level so I stopped taking it

Im currently on balance d and travacor

my vision problem isnt a problem of 20/20 or anything it just feels like what Im seeing isnt as ... jeez the wording is hard to describe, like what I see im not full interpreting, ill overlook things all the time, or my concentration is on the wrong thing,.... I dunno, it always feels like somethings effecting my vision it sucks... im assuming the epinephrine doesnt help...

when I wake up early or dont sleep enuf my vision really suffers in that sense... thats how I can tell im tired

Vision issues
 

Hey Mikeyy,

What you said about your vision and interpretation interested me. I don't seem to see/understand what's on the left side of forms, etc...

If an application is just straight up and down, I can fill it in. If it's a single sheet, but asking for different information on the left and right side, I can't do it - no matter how many times I try. Although I searched and searched, I couldn't figure out how to start a new thread here until another forum member pointed out kindly, that all I had to do was click on the little button on (you guessed it) the upper left side of the screen. Wierd.

I also get the sensation that the things I'm looking at are quivering.

Cheers

thats definately interesting

I remember in the first 4 months I went to see an eye specialist, did all the tests and my vision checked out fine, I want to go see a neurologist, there must be damage to part of my brain of which controls vision, would be nice to know if theres anything I can do to fix it... maybe I dont wanna find out :(

But my vision is the one factor that really makes me aware that somethings wrong with me, if I close my eyes, I cant tell anything is wrong

Yeah, my vision is fine, too. It's a processing issue. Have you had a neuro-psych to evaluate your brain function? It would be intersting to know what your occipital lobe is up to.

I havent and im actually wanting to do it but am nervous about the results

Excuse my arrogance but how is it conducted?

The neuro-psych is painless, but exhausting.

You'll meet with your neuro-psychologist and do a series of tests (verbal, written, motor skills) that are designed to see how your brain is actually functioning.

In advance of your appointment, he/she will want all of your medical records, educational transcripts and letters from employers and friends to try and get a clear picture of pre-morbid you that can serve as a baseline and determine which tests would be most appropriate.

You will also have a long pre-interview where the neuro-psychologist will ask you questions about yourself, your injury, etc... They like also to talk to a close family member or friend to help get a more complete picture. (For example, I had no idea that I constantly repeated myself until my husband said it and all my friends mentioned it in their letters.)

The testing is usually done over the course of one long day. However, they can break it up if that proves too tiring for you.

Most of the time you will get your results in about two weeks. The neuro-psychologist will call you and a family member (if you want) in for a long discussion about your results and make any treatment suggestions. You will also get a written report.

I understand your fear about getting neuro-psych feedback. However, it's not as bad as you might imagine. Frankly, it's not that you don't know something is wrong. During the testing, you may find, as I did, that there are tasks you can't do at all. And, of course, you've seen your MRI and live with your deficits every day. So, in short, while the specifics and extent might surprise you, the news that you have brain damage isn't news at all.

In a funny way, listening to my neuro-psych was a relief. Finally someone understood how I was thinking and feeling and behaving and could explain to me exactly why I was thinking, feeling and behaving that way. Before that, I thought I was going nuts.

The neuro-psych also helped target my cognitive therapy and got me access to some of the support services I obviously needed.

Try not to be afraid. If you need to talk, before or after your neuro-psych, feel free to send me a private message. As much as it sometimes feels that way - you're not alone.
Cheers

thx hockey appreciate it!

I know im not alone and thats why I love coming here, I just feel that if I found out a certain part of my brain was damaged beyond repair that id find that a big downfall, but then again I suppose Id have to learn how to live with it as apposed to hoping it would get better.

I think it would be great to hear what others have to say, I already called a few of my closer friends and they said they'd love to help.. would be interesting to hear how ive changed :confused:

Im going to try to get a good neuro psych out here, does anyone know of any good ones in the Vancouver area?

Finding a good neuro-psychologist
 

No problem, Mike!

If I can make one suggestion: let your friends send their letters directly to the neuro-psychologist. If they think you're going to look at them they may feel inhibited in what they say. If they don't want the contents of their letters disclosed to you in the post-test report, give them that option. Don't speak with them about any "changes" before they write their letters. Otherwise, the neuro-psychologist won't get the best possible letters and you won't get the best possible report. Don't sweat the letters: your family and friends love you and are only doing their best to help.

In fact, it was family and friends who told me (gently) that I might benefit from the neuro-psych. Now, I'm really grateful they did. I'm getting cognitive therapy targeted to my specific issues - and my friends and family are right there helping me with the homework!

I won't lie to you: I suffered a spiral injury (brain did a 360 scrapping itself everywhere along the inside of my cranium) and I ended up with a diffuse axonal injury, so (with current medical science) there is no way I will ever be the same. Still, I have seen improvement from the therapy. I am doing better with daily tasks and that has increased my independence and reduced my frustration and anxiety.

You're right to pick your neuro-psychologist with care. I can't remember how you were injured. Anyway, if you are involved with any sort of litigation, the wcb or an insurance company you need to be careful to the point of paranoid.

The sad truth is that doing "independent" medical assessments (IMA) for insurance companies is a major source of income supplementation for Canadian specialists. Even if you're referred by your GP, if your neuro-psychologist is in the pocket of the insurance company he/she will not bite the hand that feeds him. If you're litigating and he says you're badly injured, word will get round and the insurance companies will punish him by withholding future business. Yeah, it's a sick system - but I'm not kidding. There are doctors who fly all over the country doing IMAs who would exhume Rocket Richard and declare him fit to play in the Stanley Cup Final.

So how do you find a good neuro-psychologist? I would suggest that you visit the BC Brain Injury Association (www.bcBrainInjuryAssociation.com). They are there to help the brain injured. You can call them at (604) 465-1783 and ask for a suggestion. Any neuro-psychologist serving on the board would be a good bet as a competent, compassionate clinician. Although it's a new chapter of the Brain Injury Association of Canada, they may also have support groups in Vancouver. In addition to going there to talk (with I suggest), it's a good place to get information about doctors. Find a couple of members with TBIs from car accidents and ask them what neuro-psychologists their lawyers sent them to.

Good Luck

hockey where are you from? I see you have a wide range of listings from people in BC to another post you had 2 numbers for people in the UK

Are you an internet spambot? lol JK!!! :)

Thanks again for your help

Im going to see a neuro psych as well as get a few hormone tests done
One last thing Im going to do is a 200food alergy test just to see if there is something thats raising my histamine levels

Hockey is the font of all knowledge - dontch know :p

You could also look into vision therapy for brain injuries. N.O.R.A., which stands for neuro opthamalic rehabilitation associates, is a good website for information. They also have a list of neuro-opthamologists who specialize in brain injury rehabilitation. Here is their link: http://nora.cc/index.php.

Pardon????
 

Mike,

I should have thought my avatar - especially for you - would have been a dead giveaway as far as my nationality goes, eh. Come on man, do I have to free base maple syrup and sing an Anne Murray song? I am, however, better travelled than our current Prime Minister.

Fountain of all knowledge? I'm sorry if I've been a bit pedantic: having a wrecked frontal lobe rather robs one of subtlety.

I'm going to check out the website on TBI related vision issues. Thanks!

Is anyone here experiencing hearing problems since their injury? I don't mean the darn ringing; I'm talking periodic deafness in one or both ears.

I'll be interested to hear your replies - but please speak up.

Cheers

Bruins EH?????????????
Enjoy Lucic, hes one of us, from here, told me hes a bruin for life
I guess you guys are treatin him like gold

I selected the avatar for the monkey: his skates are nicer than mine and I admire the way he keeps his stick on the ice.

I'm strickly Go, Habs, Go! (Even though the Canadiens have sucked since Roy left.)

Patrick Roy was the reason I started playing goalie in hockey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gxlO243ztE

Hey Mike,

I was more inspired by Marty McSorely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m69S1dfrak

HA!!! Patrick Roy Inspired many, so many french canadian goalies popped up after him, and they actually honoured that at his retirement in Montreal... although I think my mask is a bit nicer ;)