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-   -   head trauma after previous concussions (https://www.neurotalk.org/traumatic-brain-injury-and-post-concussion-syndrome/82429-head-trauma-previous-concussions.html)

calson87 03-26-2009 12:15 AM

head trauma after previous concussions
 
hi there, ive had a couple mild concussions in the past from sports, accidents, etc. each time i managed to come out of it without having the more extreme symptoms (memory loss, unconsciousness, blurred vision). i only had the typical headaches, fatigue, and dizziness. i remember prior to recieving my concussions, i use to have my clumsy times where i hit my head pretty hard aroudn the house, however, i never felt and symptoms.

now, even a hit to the head that doesn't seem to have much force to it (jumped and banged my head against the ceiling), i immediately get the symptoms of a concussion. it usually last for a couple weeks, and if im lucky, as short as 1 week. do you guys have similar experiences?? or are these what i consider as "light hits" acutally strong enough to concuss me again?

incircles 03-26-2009 07:47 AM

Yeah, it does seem like bumping my head slightly can cause my usually mild PCS symptoms to ramp up in severity for a little while. A few weeks ago I smacked myself in the head lightly with a fridge door (it opened in an unexpected direction and i was in a rush) and i was dizzy and slightly disoriented for a few hours. It certainly wasn't a new concussion, just an aggravation of the old one.

vini 03-26-2009 07:58 AM

hi welcome
 
hi if you are experiencing concussion symptoms then the answer is probably yes stop, hitting ya head move the trampoline or basket ball hoop outside LOL :D sorry but you must be one tall dude or or good jumper

welcome go see your doc if it is worrying you

calson87 03-26-2009 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vini (Post 486844)
welcome go see your doc if it is worrying you

lol i refuse to go to a doctor unless i am worried that i fractured my skull or internal bleeding. having been to the doctors twice, it seemed like they know very little, and sent me for an unecssarry, cancerous CT scan, and gave me the typical " go home and rest". i probbably know more abotu concussion than most general physicians form my experience and internet resources haha.

and incircles, how long ago was your concussion?? the last time i hit my head was about a year ago. is it possible to aggravate a concussion that was already 1 year ago?

also, does anyone know if you are prone to brain damage when aggrevating a previous concussion?? like a ligth hit to the head, but will cause symptoms to reappear.

AintSoBad 03-26-2009 07:29 PM

Calson,
One thing that I've always read about Brain injuries, is that One, leads to another, leads to another. And, THAT is NOT good.
You don't seem to have faith in your doctors, and, Emergency room doctors aren't set up for TBI.
And, Further, YOU HAVE NO WAY OF SUSPECTING INTERNAL BLEEDING!

You need a really good neurologist, who specializes. Are you near a city with a good University Hospital? Get to the Cheif of neurology. Sometimes you really hafto dig, to find what / WHO you want, NEED.
Don't give up.

What you say is true. If you have had a concussion, you can't really know the extremity of the damage, and especially with more than one. That takes a clinical psychologist, in my experience, and testing. (Not scans, tests like school). Although, an MRI maybe ordered.
CT scans use very little "cancerous" radiation.

Notice any personality changes? Ask someone who has known you all your life.
Outlook changes? Think about it. Friends disappear? Lost relationships?

There are some really good books on Amazon, and they have the readers comments, as well.
One or two may be right for you. Just search TBI, or head/brain injury.
Investigate. Learn.
You'll be better off for it.

That's what I can tell you for now, I sometimes wish I had a magic wand, but I don't.

Keep the faith, and carry on.

Best to you,

ASB
Pete

Mark in Idaho 03-28-2009 11:09 PM

Second Impact Syndrome or Multiple Imact Syndrome
 
You "bumps" could very well be concussions. The more concussions you have the easier it is to get another one. What symptoms do you have after these bumps?

Do you ever get a metallic taste in your mouth? That is a concussion. The dizziness or disorientation is also signs of a concussion.

When you bump your head, it is always a new event, even if it just appears to be a relapse of symptoms of a previous concussion.

If the previous symptoms come on without a head bump, that is called decompensation (relapse into old symptoms). If there is a new impact, then it is a new concussion.

I have had thirteen concussion over a 45 year span. I was unconscious only once. Now, I can get a concussion shaking my head NO. I get the metallic taste, disoriented, and foggy brain.

Some people get other sensations, strange smells, lack of sense of smell, sensitivity to common smells, ( coffee is a common smell that bothers some with PCS), ringing in the ears ( mine ring in the pitch of C6 sharp) , food tastes different or bland, visual abnormalities, and other sensations that are not like you have experienced in the past.

So, yes, you are having additional concussions. Stop doing that. Eventually, your brain will not have the ability to recover. The reserve capacity gets used up. Especially as you get older. Forty is the start of the down hill part of brain function. Recent studies say it starts at 27 years old, but after 40, it is very noticeable that you do not recover well.

I have found that Physiatrists and Rehabilitation Specialists are better at understanding concussions that the vast majority of neurologists.

Read Dr. Glen Johnson's TBI Guide a www.TBIGuide.com . It is the best on the net.

vini 03-29-2009 06:17 AM

hi mark
 
hi mark sorry don;t mean to hijack your thread Carlson, but this metallic taste mark, were did you source that info have you ever been checked for a skull base CSF leak or fistula

calson87 03-29-2009 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark in Idaho (Post 488084)
You "bumps" could very well be concussions. The more concussions you have the easier it is to get another one. What symptoms do you have after these bumps?

Do you ever get a metallic taste in your mouth? That is a concussion. The dizziness or disorientation is also signs of a concussion.

When you bump your head, it is always a new event, even if it just appears to be a relapse of symptoms of a previous concussion.

If the previous symptoms come on without a head bump, that is called decompensation (relapse into old symptoms). If there is a new impact, then it is a new concussion.

I have had thirteen concussion over a 45 year span. I was unconscious only once. Now, I can get a concussion shaking my head NO. I get the metallic taste, disoriented, and foggy brain.

Some people get other sensations, strange smells, lack of sense of smell, sensitivity to common smells, ( coffee is a common smell that bothers some with PCS), ringing in the ears ( mine ring in the pitch of C6 sharp) , food tastes different or bland, visual abnormalities, and other sensations that are not like you have experienced in the past.

So, yes, you are having additional concussions. Stop doing that. Eventually, your brain will not have the ability to recover. The reserve capacity gets used up. Especially as you get older. Forty is the start of the down hill part of brain function. Recent studies say it starts at 27 years old, but after 40, it is very noticeable that you do not recover well.

I have found that Physiatrists and Rehabilitation Specialists are better at understanding concussions that the vast majority of neurologists.

Read Dr. Glen Johnson's TBI Guide a. It is the best on the net.

my symptoms are fatigue, dizziness, and headaches. im 18 yrs old btw.

and when you say you can get concussion from shaking your head, it doesnt make sense to me. like you have the same amount of fluid surrounding your brain still, as any other person, so theres no way the brain can impact against the skull and cause damage right? with such slight movement, your brain shouldnt move too much

Lucy 03-29-2009 04:19 PM

Hi, I had 2 concussions 6 weeks apart back in 2001. (Relatively minor blows) I still have not recovered fully, one of the reasons being that I was 45 at the time and I am continually (accidentally) bumping my head. I still can not stay awake all day and can avoid most of the symptons of PCS if I do not let my self get over tired. i.e. stick to a routine of taking my rests/sleeps on time during the day and not over exercising and avoiding noise/over stimulation.

It takes very little for me to be concussed now - sudden jerking of my head - like if I am a passenger in a car and go over a speed bump too quickly, stopping too suddenly in the car, reaching under the dining table to pick something up and bumping my head on the way out.

I too have wondered about the fluid cushioning my brain in my skull - like is it still there? My worst concussion was when I wrote my car off when I was 21, had a fractured jaw etc and was unconcious for approx 24 hours.

I understand that each following concussion can tear the exisiting "connections" that have been stretched in the past, so each further concussion follows on with further damage. Needless to say that my MRI and CT showed nothing. The only test that confirmed anything was the QEEG.

8 years on and I am totally fed up and have had enough of it all!

Lynlee

vini 03-29-2009 05:05 PM

hi
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucy (Post 488399)
Hi, I had 2 concussions 6 weeks apart back in 2001. (Relatively minor blows) I still have not recovered fully, one of the reasons being that I was 45 at the time and I am continually (accidentally) bumping my head. I still can not stay awake all day and can avoid most of the symptons of PCS if I do not let my self get over tired. i.e. stick to a routine of taking my rests/sleeps on time during the day and not over exercising and avoiding noise/over stimulation.

It takes very little for me to be concussed now - sudden jerking of my head - like if I am a passenger in a car and go over a speed bump too quickly, stopping too suddenly in the car, reaching under the dining table to pick something up and bumping my head on the way out.

I too have wondered about the fluid cushioning my brain in my skull - like is it still there? My worst concussion was when I wrote my car off when I was 21, had a fractured jaw etc and was unconcious for approx 24 hours.

I understand that each following concussion can tear the exisiting "connections" that have been stretched in the past, so each further concussion follows on with further damage. Needless to say that my MRI and CT showed nothing. The only test that confirmed anything was the QEEG.

8 years on and I am totally fed up and have had enough of it all!

Lynlee

hi the CSF system in our bodies is very complex I had and may still have a leak here is a link that tells you all that you can possibly understand about it , but please understand it is rare and I got it because of skull fractures so don,t go thinking you could have one, and hang in there lynlee

http://www.cerebrospinalfluidresearc...content/5/1/10

incircles 03-29-2009 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calson87 (Post 487099)
and incircles, how long ago was your concussion?? the last time i hit my head was about a year ago. is it possible to aggravate a concussion that was already 1 year ago?

about eight months ago, and since i just aggravated mine tonight with weightlifting, i'd assume that it's possible to aggravate a year-old one.

Mark in Idaho 03-30-2009 02:47 AM

aggravating a year old concussion?
 
You cannot aggravate a year old concussion. It is a new concussion. As Lucy confirmed, a prior concussion or multiple concussions can easily create a situation where you brain becomes very sensitive to any quick motion. There are a few ways your brain can be concussed:
1. A direct impact where the brain is forced against the part of the skull that is hit or suddenly stopped.
2. A contra-coup injury where the brain bounces back and forth from the point of impact to the point on the opposite side of the skull.
3. A rotational trauma where the skull is rotated suddenly and the brain twists within the skull and against the bony protuberances on the inside of the skull.
4. A vertical brain movement that pushes the brain up or more likely down into the base of the skull. This can compress against the brain stem and be very damaging.
5. A shake or impact that causes the brain to move about the corpus callosum, the center of the brain at the top of the brain stem. Many concussions of the other types include injury to the connections from the lobes to the corpus callosum. This is often the cause of the sensory symptoms as the brain does not communicate between the different lobes. The corpus callosum is like the central switchboard of the brain, directing information between the different lobes.

The more often the impacts, the greater the chance that healing is incomplete leaving the brain cells, especially the axons, susceptible to damage from much lower impact forces. There is never a complete healing. There is always a residual weakness in the brain tissue.

Regarding the metallic taste, I have experienced this symptom for over 30 years. It only last a few minutes. Only one doctor recognized it as a symptom of a concussion. He was fresh out of med school.

I am like Lucy. I can get a concussion from speed bumps and other road bumps and quick stops. I can also get a concussion from roller coasters and other fast moving amusement part rides. Once, I got a concussion from a Tilt-A-Whirl. I was nauseous for a day and it was not motion sickness. Like Lucy, I had a very bad concussion long ago and was knocked out for 30 minutes. When I regained consciousness, I spoke very slowly for about three days. My personality changed drastically after that event. I have had a few more personality changes after more recent concussions.

Since a concussion in 1996 when I stood up under a heavy wood beam, I can get sea sick very easily. I had never had this problem before during almost forty years of rough water boating and fishing.

Lucy had the only test that does not result in false negatives and has high accuracy in true positives. It is the QEEG. The Quantitative Electro Encephalo Gram uses 20 to 40 leads to measure the electrical impulses between the different lobes of the brain. It uses a much finer timing that a normal EEG. The millisecond graphing allows the doctor to see minute changes or aberrations in electrical activity. It also allows him to compare the right and left hemisphere simultaneously. The brain should work in a symmetrical pattern. If it doesn't, it is a sign of malfunction. Functional MRI's can also show the damage but are not in wide use. There are a few other new imaging techniques being developed but not yet widely available. The QEEG is in wide use and has been well researched with over 170,000 articles in the medical libraries.

The QEEG shows that my brain operates at 25% power in the occipital (back) lobe. The corpus callosum does not "gate" information properly. That means it allows too much information to flow to the other areas such that the other parts of the brain are flooded with too much information. A normal functioning corpus callosum would stop the information, sort it out for relevance and then only pass on the important information. It basically acts like a filter blocking the unimportant information from clogging up the brain. Mine allows too much auditory and visual information through causing an information overload.

Lucy, you probably have many of the same problems. Dr. Dorothy Gronwall and Phillip Wrightson of New Zealand have been pioneers in concussion research. Dr. Gronwall died of a stroke in 2002 or so. Their clinic may still be in operation. They have written three very good books on head injury. There is a good synopsis of one of their books at http://tbilaw.com/tbilibrary.com/gronwall.html

So, those of you who think you aggravate old concussions need to do the reading and understand that your brains cannot tolerate additional impacts. The later impacts are new concussion events. This is a fact.

Lucy 03-30-2009 02:49 PM

Dorothy Gronwell
 
Hi Mark - guess what - I was seeing Dorothy Gronwell - she took me on as a favour!

When I was struggling to work my boss spoke to a friend of his who was a Dr in the Head Injury unit of one of our hospitals and she had worked with Dorothy before she retired and rang and arranged for me to see her.

Dorothy saved me - she confirmed that I had pcs and not having a mental breakdown. She also arranged for me to take a month off work and was worried that I had been trying to work full time for the previous 2 months.

Her office was in the basement of her home and she had a siamese cat that could open doors! Hows that for a valuable piece of info!

After I had taken the month off work I had to go back to see her for reassessment - can remember sitting there crying unable to complete a test -she calmy went and made me a coffee and after that I went home. - She died a few days later - needless to say I was devasted - I have always thought that she is the one specialist that I saw that totally believed me.

Her one piece of advice that has stuck in my mind is "just go with it, don't fight it"

No other specialist has completed tests the same as hers - maybe because most of the other specialists are paid for by the insurer? Don't know. Unfortuanately I didn't receive my second report.

Lynlee

Mark in Idaho 03-30-2009 07:23 PM

Dr Gronwall
 
Lynlee,

Wow, You have been blessed.

Dr Gronwall and her colleagues are the only ones who "GET IT." Her practice and cat sound so much like her. I can easily see her as going against the flow of conventional thought.

I though I met a Physiatrist here in Sacramento, California, who was open minded like Dr Gronwall, but a follow up appointment proved me wrong. I had a neurologist who was fabulous but he is 84 years old and had a cerebral embolism and has lost most of his eyesight and had to close his practice.

I was just talking to my mom about my head injury and finally getting disability. She mentioned that when I regained consciousness after my injury when I was 10, I was crying that I could not see. I had never heard this part of "my" story before. I am finally learning a lot about what happened to me 44 years ago.

btw, I have never heard the name Lynlee before. It is a pretty name.

There is a neuropsychologist in Washington State by Seattle who has some good ideas about PCS. He has done research and developed the Cripe Neurological Symptoms that can be used to differentiate a brain injury/concussion from psychological problems. He has other differentiating criteria too. Unfortunately, he has not been well published so his ideas are not followed.

For example, I test in the top 10 - 1 percent for intelligence according to the WAIS-II criteria. I test at the bottom 10 percent for processing speed and memory functions. The neuropsych say that I have psychological problems because nobody can test at both ends of the spectrum. Dr. Cripe's research shows that the conflicting scores are indicative of a organic brain injury. He also says that psychological causation has to be ruled out because it would show low scores across the whole spectrum of tests.

So, the psychologist who testified at my disability hearing says I have psychological problems that qualify me for disability, not a brain injury.

We know better. We know that they are the ones who are nuts. They refuse to acknowledge the logical truth.

They may have a diploma, but we are the ones with the real knowledge, even if our brains are broken.

My best to you as you "just go with it and don't fight it."
I have done best when I have a similar attitude.

Lucy 03-31-2009 03:42 AM

Testing
 
Mark, I hae been repeatedly told by psychologists - (other than Dorothy of course) that as I have scored above average and in some cases in their top 20% (percentile as they would say) that there is nothing wrong with me and most people would be happy to score as well as I had.

I end up sitting there trying to explain that I was never "just above average" - average did not exist for me - I was always an extremely quick thinker - excelled at school and sports - was a perfectionist. I know that it sounds like rose coloured glasses but that is how I was. And who needs to have a sleep after 2 hours of testing and has a massive headache from concentrating so hard for so long?

I am now thinking that the higher the IQ etc the more we notice any brain imperfections or injuries. I firmly believe that my tiredness is due to my brain trying to process as rapidly as it did previously but requires more energy to do so which explains why my good time is so limited during the day. I don't know how to slow it down - it is not exacly like taking your foot off the accelerator and I do try to avoid over stimulation of my brain i.e. one thing at a time. I am sure that the "speed" of the brain is a genetic thing set at birth or shortly after. I try to avoid cramming too much into my good brain time as I pay for it the next day.

When I did the QEEG it was reported that I was in the bottom 20% as far as learning disabilities go - I find that really hard to believe, though when I think about it I realise that as the most disabling incident was when I was 45, prior to this I had stored an extremely wide spread general knowledge - including a lot of irrevelant junk in my brain - this is always easier to retreive that anything that I have learned in the past 8 years. Often it will take me days to remember something that I do know that I know the answer to. Word finding can be a pain too - I am very good at bluffing - few people would realise any of this!

Sorry I am waffling away here - my bed time now!

Lynlee

Mark in Idaho 03-31-2009 03:22 PM

Testing
 
Did the QEEG analyzer say anything about your frontal lobe power? Mine is at up to ten times normal. This is the source of my high intelligence. My processing speed is at 10% and memory functions at about the same.
My occipital lobe is at about 25% power. Thus the two lobes do not communicate very well.

The high intelligence problem with the neuropsych assessment is very common. I think part of the problem is when the psychologist sees someone with higher intelligence score than his own. They have labeled my intelligence as extraordinary and phenomenal. This shows that it is better than theirs. They think that just because you have high intelligence score, there is nothing wrong. It is intelligence envy. They claim that the low memory and processing skills are just a psychological aberration. I have yet to meet a neuropsych as smart as I am. They are usually just a trained robot that cannot think outside the box. It is one thing to be able to store knowledge. It is quite another thing to know how to use that information. The latter is probably you and me.

I have good access to old information. That is pre-morbid knowledge. Since 2001, I have very little memory or ability to learn new skills or information. If I am doing research, I use cut and paste with wild abandon. I will cut and paste anything that has a remote connection to my project. Then I can slowly sort through all of the information I have collected so it makes better sense. Otherwise, I will have no idea of what or where the good information is. I sometimes use multiple monitors or even multiple computers so I do not lose track of information I need for my project.

They define skill sets that are retained after brain injury as "over-learned skills." That is, they have been used so many times, that they are stored in many different parts of long term memory. Thus, they can be found when the brain needs to recall the skill. It is like there is a well beaten path to the stored memory. Either that or there are many different paths to the stored memory. The information since injury (post morbid) does not get this path system set up as well so recall can be hap-hazard. I will finally remember something I searched my memory for, often days later.

I moved to my present home six months before my injury. I had already memorized many of the streets all over the valley. After my injury, those memories were just gone. I had not over-learned them yet. I have not been able to memorize them again.

One of my tricks when I cannot find a memory is to look around and identify the different things I see. This sort of tests a bunch of memory routes and sometimes, the memory is found. I have horrible problems with word finding. I often use a word with the same first letter or even a combination of the same letters. I might say 'decide' when I mean 'discover.' My wife is good at helping me correct to the word I was wanting. She can almost read my mind better than I can. When I am giving her driving directions ( I do not drive anymore), I will say left when my brain means right. As soon as I hear my mistake, I can correct it.

I do a lot of work with power tools plugged into extension cords. If I need to unplug a drill and plug a saw into the extension cord, I will always get it backwards. I unplug the drill and instead of dropping the drill cord plug end, I drop the extension cord plug end. Then I pick up the saw cord plug end and try to plug it into the drill cord plug end. I can concentrate to try to do it correctly and still I drop the extension cord plug end.

When driving down the road, I will see road signs that look odd. When I look again, I realize that I scrambled the letters to come up with something quite different that the actual word. It can be quite amusing. It is sort of a dyslexia problem.

I have a similar problem with my keyboard skills. I will type "and" instead of "an," 'are' instead of 'or', 'this' instead of 'the', and other quirky combinations. I will not add an "s" to make a word plural. It is like my brain short circuits and sends a message to my fingers based on the first similar word in memory. My brain thinks the right word. It just gets sidetracked sending the message to my fingers.

I use spell check in everything I type online.

One of my serious problems is with papers or forms. I cannot fill out a form that is full of blanks to fill in. My mind gets overwhelmed with all of the blank spaces and I get stuck. If I just have to fill out a form with lots of blank spaces, if I remember, I put a sheet of paper over the blank spaces and only expose one line at a time. This allows my mind to focus on just the one blank.

A similar problem happens with multiple pieces of paper. I cannot look at three or more pages at the same time. I quickly get overloaded. My solution is to three hole punch them and put them in a binder. That way I can only see one page at a time. I can organize them easily this way. Sorting through multiple loose pages is just not possible.


Well, I digress so much it annoys people to no end. I should stop this and let it be read so someone can make a flippant comment.

BTW, I think you are right. Because we "had" such highly developed skills, we are extremely sensitive to all of our new dysfunctions.

Lucy 04-06-2009 12:23 AM

Mark, Vini - re QEEG
 
Hi,

I was wondering if I could email either of you a copy of my QEEG and if you could comment/ give me your opinion on it. It may sound weird, but I have not found anybody properly qualified to comment on it in New Zealand. (only about 4 million of us in the entire country.) I went to Sydney for it and the nuero/psych had not completed the report before I came home. She had been very excited that according to her showed damage.

The Brain Injury Assn here seem to deal with those with more severe injuries and most specialists appear to be linked to my insurer (ACC)- who of course would like to be able to say there is nothing wrong with me!

Regarding the metallic taste - I believe it is the nortriptyline and zopilcone which I take for sleeping at night causing this for me.

thanks

Lynlee

Mark in Idaho 04-06-2009 05:13 PM

Qeeg analysis
 
Lynlee,

Usually, a Qeeg is computer analyzed based on a database of both control and injured subjects. The simplest analysis is by was of comparing hemispheres. There should be a symmetry between right and left and between front and back. If you have the color pictures, they should look symmetrical. The power scales need to be compared to normalized data. That is data from a control group of similar age.

Even here in the US, many Qeeg results are sent out to be analyzed. My neuro built his own database and had much of the research data in his head. He and his Qeeg tech would look over the results and knew how to look for the minute dysfunctions. They would advance the time by very small amounts and could find the minute glitches that represent dysfunctions. The bad spot might be for only one-tenth of a second.

One of the databases used is called Neurometrics Here is a good simple explanation of the analysis methods. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurometrics

Dr. Robert Thatcher is one of the pioneers and is developing a mini Qeeg system to indicate brain trauma in athletes.

Here is a list of good articles about Qeeg. I would suggest those with Dr. Thatcher as author. http://www.brainfitness.com/researchEEG.html

The only member in your area in the International Society for Neurofeedback and Research is Bruce Mackie, Auckland, 64 9 524 3698.

He only has a masters degree so most likely is focused more on neuro-feedback therapy than diagnostics.

Dr. Thatcher's web site is http://www.appliedneuroscience.com/
His contact is at the bottom of the main web page.

Does your test data have any trade names on the pages? They would indicate the database used.

Did you go to the Sidney Neurofeedback Centre? I have looked at their web page and find it lacking of information about their analysis process. They do say they refer to www.appliedneurosciences.com/au for expert analysis. I do not find any better information on appliedneurosciences web page.

By my research, I bet you were tested by Donna Sobanski. Am I correct? She may be sending the test results of for analysis.

How could you e-mail the results? Is it just text or are there pictures etc? Or a PDF maybe?

If you want to try, I will post my e-mail address to you privately.

rydellen 04-08-2009 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark in Idaho (Post 488084)
You "bumps" could very well be concussions. The more concussions you have the easier it is to get another one. What symptoms do you have after these bumps?

Do you ever get a metallic taste in your mouth? That is a concussion. The dizziness or disorientation is also signs of a concussion.

When you bump your head, it is always a new event, even if it just appears to be a relapse of symptoms of a previous concussion.

If the previous symptoms come on without a head bump, that is called decompensation (relapse into old symptoms). If there is a new impact, then it is a new concussion.

I have had thirteen concussion over a 45 year span. I was unconscious only once. Now, I can get a concussion shaking my head NO. I get the metallic taste, disoriented, and foggy brain.

Some people get other sensations, strange smells, lack of sense of smell, sensitivity to common smells, ( coffee is a common smell that bothers some with PCS), ringing in the ears ( mine ring in the pitch of C6 sharp) , food tastes different or bland, visual abnormalities, and other sensations that are not like you have experienced in the past.

So, yes, you are having additional concussions. Stop doing that. Eventually, your brain will not have the ability to recover. The reserve capacity gets used up. Especially as you get older. Forty is the start of the down hill part of brain function. Recent studies say it starts at 27 years old, but after 40, it is very noticeable that you do not recover well.

I have found that Physiatrists and Rehabilitation Specialists are better at understanding concussions that the vast majority of neurologists.

I just want to comment this. I have experienced the same thing with getting a slight knock and even just by gently whiplashing my neck at one time. The sympthoms came back stronger, with for me headache beeing the major thing. So I know that this talk of re-injury is correct and that it most definelty has to do with you beeing concussed before and still suffer from PCS.

I brought this issue up with my Senior Staff Neurologist that I see, and her opinion was that this small of a hit or bump could NOT cause the damage done normally from a concussion. She couldnt say why I had intensified sympthoms. It is easy to just blame it on increased anxiety and necktention from knowing that youve been hit/bumped etc.
Her professional opinion was that I did not do any in-reparable damage. But she couldnt say what mechanism cause the increase of symptoms.

Im almost a year into the PCS and still feel very little if any improvment. What HAS improved is that I thanks to the anti-depressants, think in different paths and am no longer depressed. I start to accept my life as it is. Im far from really accepting it, but I can enjoy myself WITH the limitations applied from the PCS.

I have people I know who had the same thing as me for 1.5 year and are now fully recovered. One even got himself a new concussion that lasted for two weeks and then went totally away. He was afraid that it would be cumulative and start the cycle from the start. BUT IT DIDNT!

My thoughts (based on my experience on this exact subject) on the cumulative part of concussions is that while your brain is in "recoverymode" its is cumulative in a more serious way than if you are as healed you will get, before getting a new concussion..

Can anyone give me their insights on the topics I have gone through!?

This is to me one of the most important subjects, because it right now keeps me from doing a lot of the stuff I love so much. Im giving it at least 1.5 year before a start doing anything that can hurt me.

Emil from Sweden

Mark in Idaho 04-09-2009 09:44 PM

Recovery mode
 
I would agree with your idea that while still recovering from a concussion, another concussion will have more serious effects. Once you have healed to a stable point, another concussion would hopefully not be as damaging.

Your neurologist is dead wrong. A concussion is defined by symptoms, not impact force. This is a common problem with neurologists. Until Dr. Robert Thatcher gets his active concussion monitoring device on the market, we will just have to believe our own experiences. Dr. Thatcher is developing a miniature EEG device that can be worn by an athlete (football player) that will signal a concussion based on the EEG parameters developed by Dr. Thatcher. This device will use brain function to determine a concussion, not impact forces as the NFL and NCAA are trying to suggest.

Unfortunately, neurologist do not follow concussion research. They are more oriented to other neurological problems. Neuropsychologists are the source of most concussion research.

EddysHead 02-15-2010 09:07 PM

Bumping this. So the migraines I get for a week after something as innocent as getting headbunted by my g/f is a concussion? Grazing my head on a car door and getting a painful bruise and waking up with spots is another concussion?

Jeez, so how does this work in the grand scheme of healing? Do these little bumps cause recovery to pretty much reset?

mhr4 02-17-2010 12:52 PM

Inflammation
 
It all has to do with inflammation. When you get a concussion, your brain goes into protection mode. Now, if your brain had sustained some type of infection, this is a good thing because it will stave off the infection from spreading and doing more damage. However, with a blunt force injury, this is a catastrophic thing. The glia within your brain, which are responsible for protecting your brain, begin to divide in order to protect your brain from more damage. Well, this actually winds up causing more damage then what was originally incurred.

This is actually how the neurosteroid progesterone works for acute brain injuries. It acts as an anti-inflamatory agent in the brain by preventing the aforementioned catastrophic cascade from occurring.

Now, when you get a second concussion before your brain is healed, this sets off the inflammatory response again only it takes a much smaller hit to cause the cycle to begin because your threshold is much lower than before. In other words, your glia are ready and waiting for another insult to happen and because of this, the glia will respond to any thing that happens to your brain regardless of force.

Scientists are actually discovering that with mild tbi's, the impact is actually no big deal. It is the consequent actions of the glia that cause the most damage.

So, what can be done at this point? Well, one suggestion is to get into contact with a doctor who administers glutathione injections. Glutathione is a powerful anti inflammatory agent (although not as powerful a progesterone). The next time you bump your head, go in and ask for an injection of 6 mg of glutathione. You may need to get a couple of these before you begin to feel better. And, not many conventional MD's do this, but many ND's and a few OD's do.

Also, probably in the near future progesterone will be prescribed in ER rooms for people with brain injuries. So, when you bump your head and feel concussed, a simple visit to the ER will suffice to bring down your symptoms.

Also, also, the idea in recovering from a head injury is to bring down the inflammation and speed up the brain. This is where neurofeedback and other therapies come into play. Get the inflammation to go down with rest and speed up the brain with therapy.


You should also not get too discouraged by this. This is all theory because scientists still don't know exactly what happens when you bump your head. Also, it may be that when you slightly bump your head, you do cause the inflammation to happen but it doesn't cause any damage. Hence the feeling of getting better after a week thing.

EddysHead 02-18-2010 06:34 PM

Well, since I've been using Brain Age for a bit. I'd thought I'd say.

It's very useful when looking at trends. About a week ago I nicked my head on the side of the car, causing a bruise or something painful to appear there. Anyways, a week later and it seems like the bruise disappeared. Although now my scalp is kinda tingly. (Usual I guess.) I think that my vision is getting worse, but I took my Brain Age today and... It's at 21. A new low. Strange.

I took the memory test (They have you memorize 25 numbers) and I ended up remembering 22 of them. A new high.

I dunno, I'd figure at around this time if it was a concussion my brain would be further down the stupidity rabbit-hole. So I guess I'm safe?

Mark in Idaho 02-18-2010 07:09 PM

Eddy,

I would suggest not trying to read too much into your Brain Age either way. It is a great exercise but not a good diagnostic. It may show trends but there are too many other factors that can effect the results.

You need to get very serious about avoiding head bumps. Your girl friend needs to understand you needs to avoid them. You will also benefit from learning some preventive behaviors. For instance, Before I get out of a car, I stop my other activities so that I can focus on the task of getting out of the car without bumping my head. I have many skills like this that are now almost subconscious in nature.

I have to be careful when wearing a hat. They obstruct overhead obstacles.

** the impact force is of little consequence. It is more important to understand the inflammation response of the glia is not directly related to impact force. This concept has been difficult for some professionals to accept. They think it is illogical for impact force to not be directly related to the brain's response/damage.

They will commonly say, "You did not hit your head hard enough to do any damage." This comment is patently wrong.

It is like the saying, "On any given Sunday, any NFL football team can beat any other NFL football team, regardless of their past record."

Just remember, minor bumps can be major problems. A rotational injury can easily be the most devastating. The boxing industry has realized that a knock out is easier to cause with a rotational punch that a jab. The hook to the jaw causes a rotational impact that can be devastating.

EddysHead 02-22-2010 11:20 PM

Yup, I got a new symptom. My sensitivity to sound has increased. Crap.

Also, I wonder. Right before the "bad" comes. I swear some of my symptoms disappear. Most notably my vision seems to sort of recover. My thinking also speeds up. Then the next day or two it's crap city.

Mark in Idaho 02-23-2010 01:58 AM

Eddy,

I think you may be trying to do too much self diagnosis. You need to take a much longer term approach. The short term ups and downs will drive you nuts. The resultant stress will be counter productive to healing and/or learning skills to improve your life.

There are quite a few of us here who have been through the ups and downs many times over a long period of time. It has been over 40 years of them for me.

Learn to stabilize your life to prevent future risks.

Learn the skills needed to minimize the functional limitations caused by your symptoms.

Learn to accept those symptoms that you cannot overcome with work-arounds. If they improve after more time, great. If not, you have not wasted time worrying over them.

The best way to look at your symptoms is to minimize your awareness of them. Then, after time has passed, say a few months, you might have a "Eureka" moment and realize that you just did something that you could not do before. Or you realize that you have not experienced a return of a specific symptom in a long time.

The "Eureka" moments can then be fabulously uplifting.

I go on with life as if I don't have any negative symptoms. I accept not driving as a normal characteristic of my life.

I do not plan or expect perfection in my activities of daily living (ADL's). My wife treats me the same way.

If she asks me something that needs my memory to answer, I will try to remember but if the memory does not come readily, I will just answer that I don't remember. I don't fret about it and neither does she. We go on.

Sometimes, I will be able to recall an amazing amount of information and detail. Other times, it is like my memory slate has been wiped clean without a clue that the memory was ever there.

I have memory tricks that work sometimes and not other times. That is the life of PCS.

So, give yourself and your brain a break. Then go live your life.

Galaxy1012 07-20-2014 10:37 AM

I am currently struggling with the same thing. I have to travel to my work and it's about a mile away from my home. There are numerous speed bumps and potholes I have to face daily to and from my workplace. I am not sure if these slight jolts and bumps to my head are giving me a concussion again and I am worried I am interrupting my recovery over and over again. While I have been assured that these small bumps aren't an issue this thread puts me in concern and makes me rethink. What a mess! I have had only one concussion so I guess I shouldn't worry too much as Mark says

Mark in Idaho 07-20-2014 12:10 PM

Galaxy,

This thread has been dormant for over 4 years.

Regarding riding on a rough road, it will helped greatly if you ride with your head and shoulders forward, sort of humped over. The allows your back to flex and absorb more of the bumps. I have lived with this problem for 14 years. Keeping your shoulders away from the back of the seat with your head forward will be a big improvement.


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