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-   -   RSD and chocolate (https://www.neurotalk.org/reflex-sympathetic-dystrophy-rsd-and-crps-/82793-rsd-chocolate.html)

Grammadur 03-30-2009 05:30 PM
RSD and chocolate
 
Can anyone shed some light on why we aren't supposed to have chocolate? I don't remember where I heard this but I'm sure this is just some sort of evil joke. Right!?!?!

Sally

GalenaFaolan 03-30-2009 05:51 PM
For some caffeine can cause an increase in pain. Chocolate has caffeine in it. I drink coffee, eat what I want, etc and it nothing makes my pain less or more. I think when it comes to dietary changes, it's up to the individual person what they do or don't eat and drink. You don't have to cut out chocolate or anything else if you don't want to. :-D

Hugs,

Karen

Mslday 03-30-2009 09:56 PM
Quote:
Dear Dr. Hooshmand,

Question: Why are you against eating chocolate?

Answer: Chocolate, except for being an "upper", almost identical to cocaine, has no redeeming value.

It does not release any endorphin, and has nothing to do with endorphin or any pain relief.

Chocolate contains "phenyl etholamine", a chemical very close to cocaine. It is also extracted from the same cocoa tree. This chemical strongly stimulates the secretion of adrenaline and nor-adrenaline (nor-epinephrine). These are the chemicals that are released by the sympathetic system.

When you have a nerve block, the sympathetic system's release of epinephrine is reduced by about 10 mg (10 thousandth of a gram). A chocolate bar provides 10 gm of the stimulant chemical (1000 times higher than the block's reduction). So the best way to aggravate RSD is having a piece of chocolate, also it is addicting similar to cocaine.

H. Hooshmand, M.D.
I don't know how true Dr Hooshmands position on chocolate is, but this is probably where the myth comes from.

For the record I am very careful with my diet now, but chocolate is one of those rare indulgences I do not deny myself of. We all need treats every now and then.

I focus on an anti-inflammatory diet and it has helped me very much.

MsL

lostmary 03-31-2009 08:10 AM
Chocolate is the cure for everything!:):)

I've heard the same thing about chocolate, but I've heard it for all sorts of problems. I drink coffee, love chocolate, and I've not given up either one of them. You need to follow your own body on how it relates to different things. If it causes you discomfort then I'd say not to partake, if it doesn't, be like me and really really enjoy it. :Starvin::Starvin:

Hugs
Mary

dreambeliever128 03-31-2009 09:17 AM
Hi,
 
I switched to decaf coffee awhile back. I do love chocolate though but trying to cut down on it. I maybe eat a small piece of it a day.

For Valentines Day my son-in-law got me a 3 lb heart made of chocolate. I have been giving some of it away to keep from eating it myself. Chocolate doesn't seem to bother my pain.

Ada

ali12 03-31-2009 09:24 AM
I have heard the same thing about chocolate but cant say it really affects me!! I absolutely love chocolate and dont know what I would do without it some days!!! I always seem to use chocolate to comfort me when the pain is really bad - I am a huge stress and comfort eater!!!!

I have just started drinking coffee and love it but only have a bit of it as it can give me a headache if i'm not feeling too good. I drink maybe a cup a day to try and wake me up and maybe one during school but that is about it at the most.

I really think it depends on the indivual as to how you react. Everyone is different when it comes to dealing with this illness. Personally though, I cant say I notice a difference in pain if I drink coffee or have some chocolate - I just try and limit how much I have.

dreambeliever128 03-31-2009 09:45 AM
Hi,
 
One thing I wanted to mention is when you have Fibromyalgia you crave carbs and sweets and I find this to be so true. I have to have sweets off and on all day but I use mostly sugarfree foods. They still have the carbs though.
I don't know if you have the Fibro but it seems to come with RSD moreso then not.

Ada

ali12 03-31-2009 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreambeliever128 (Post 489101)
One thing I wanted to mention is when you have Fibromyalgia you crave carbs and sweets and I find this to be so true. I have to have sweets off and on all day but I use mostly sugarfree foods. They still have the carbs though.
I don't know if you have the Fibro but it seems to come with RSD moreso then not.

Ada
Thanks for posting this Ada - it explains a lot to me!!! I am always craving swees and chocolate - I can go through a few packets a day lol. It's really hard for me to try and cut down and some family members think that I could just "stop" eating so much if I wanted. I have been on a few diets and none have really worked for me since RSD.

I saw my Pain Management Doctor a few months ago and he said that he was 99.9% certain I had Fibro has I was sensitive in most of the spots but because of the RSD, it was hard to be 100% certain. I've read up on most of the symptoms though and I do have nearly all of them - especially the fatigue, that is a big one for me!!!!

Thanks again for posting this - it explains a lot to me and I never really thought that the Fibro could be contributing to the cravings!!!:hug:

mrsD 03-31-2009 11:32 AM
Hmmmmm?
 
I looked this up...

Chocolate contains phenylethylamine, NOT phenylethanolamine.

It does affect endorphins:
http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webproject...ethylamine.htm

It is not really closely related to cocaine.

Cocaine comes from:
Quote:
Coca is a plant in the family Erythroxylaceae, native to north-western South America. The plant plays a significant role in traditional Andean culture. Coca leaves contain cocaine alkaloids, a basis for the drug cocaine, which is a powerful stimulant.
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca

Cocoa come from:
Quote:
Cacao trees are small, understory trees that need rich, well-drained soils. They naturally grow within 20 degrees of either side of the equator because they need about 2000 millimeters of rainfall a year, and temperatures in the range of 21 to 32 degrees Celsius. Cacao trees cannot tolerate a temperature lower than 15 degrees Celsius (59 degrees Fahrenheit).[32]
more on cocoa trees:
http://www.cocoatree.org/thecocoatree/growingcocoa.asp

Here is a list of phenylethylamines...it is a long list. Notice Cocaine is not on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenethylamine

This is a list of cocaine analogues:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cocaine_analogues

Very different from phenylethylamines.
The coca plant does not make cocoa beans.

I really think the link of chocolate to cocaine is tenuous at best.

This is pretty interesting:
http://www.chocolate-chemistry.com/phenylethylamine.php

Don't miss the sentence about sexual activity in that article!

and here is another quote to put it in perspective:
Quote:
How strongly phenylethylamine can affect us is disputed, since studies show that a large part of the phenylethylamine ingested orally is metabolised before it reaches the central nervous system. One theory suggests that the sensitivity varies in each individual, and that some persons therefore are able to feel the effect of phenylethylamine even when it comes in very small doses. This would also explain why some people never go through a stressful day without reaching for the chocolate bar, while others don't even like the taste of chocolate.
As far as a typical candy bar having 10 GRAMS of phenylethylamine?
NOT so.
My stash of Special Dark Hershey's each bar is 41 grams in weight.
of that 2 grm protein
12 grams fat
25 grams carbohydrate == 39 grams just for those ingredients. Where will 10 grams of phenylethylamine come in? answer...no where... phenylethylamine is only present in small amounts in chocolate.
I find that quote from Dr. Hooshmand incomprehensible.

buckwheat 03-31-2009 11:36 AM
Hi,

Just a thought, but does anyone else besides myself feel they have neurotoxins in their system to detox?

dreambeliever128 03-31-2009 12:45 PM
Hi Ali,
 
Devin Starlanyl has a good book out called Fibromyalgia and Cronic Myofascial Pain Syndrome. The Library could have it or can get it in for you.

It tells how we crave sweets and carbs and it is from hypoglycemia that comes with Fibro.

You would like this book. It also talks about RSD in it. I've had the book for awhile. I actually lent it to my Dr. for awhile.

You might want to check this book out. I wouldn't doubt but what you do have Fibro. A lof of us do with RSD.

Ada

SBOWLING 03-31-2009 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckwheat (Post 489155)
Hi,

Just a thought, but does anyone else besides myself feel they have neurotoxins in their system to detox?
Hey Buckwheat,

Yes, from some of the medications we take to survive. My chiropactor refers to me as one toxic body. I drink as much water as I can stand each day. My cravings for sweats is terrible. I try to satisfy it with fruits sometimes I just have to have chocolate. As women some of us have a natural caving for chocolate even if we didn't have RSD.

Take care,
Sbowling

buckwheat 03-31-2009 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBOWLING (Post 489187)
Hey Buckwheat,

Yes, from some of the medications we take to survive. My chiropactor refers to me as one toxic body. I drink as much water as I can stand each day. My cravings for sweats is terrible. I try to satisfy it with fruits sometimes I just have to have chocolate. As women some of us have a natural caving for chocolate even if we didn't have RSD.

Take care,
Sbowling
Hi,

I do not mean it like that. What does your Chiro recommend you do? Hugs

SBOWLING 03-31-2009 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckwheat (Post 489194)
Hi,

I do not mean it like that. What does your Chiro recommend you do? Hugs
Sorry, what do you mean:confused: My DC recommended a couple of doctors that I am looking into. They run clinics that look at what you eat, the meds you take and the exercise you get. They do blood work to check and see how food, meds and exercise interact in the body. The web site is lmihealth.com. I see my DC 3 times a week when there is no flair up and 5 times a week when there is. He is an activator chiro my body is too tender for his hands to touch. He is a God send. I'm sure his adjustments keep me off the heavy narcotics. After all this is a nerve condition and the spine is the central nervous system it makes sense to keep it aligned. I have full body RSD from my head to my toes and it effects my lungs and heart. Sorry to ramble soooooo!
Sbowling

SandyRI 03-31-2009 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckwheat (Post 489155)
Hi,

Just a thought, but does anyone else besides myself feel they have neurotoxins in their system to detox?

Dude - with all due respect, what in the world are you talking about? what do neurotoxins have to do with chocolate?? Did I miss something?

Mslday 03-31-2009 05:28 PM
Quote:
I find that quote from Dr. Hooshmand incomprehensible.
That's why I called it a myth! Some of the comments made by Dr. Hooshmand have taken on a life of their own. I simply pointed it out because I think that is where the myth started. To some people his RSD Puzzles have become fact when little to no evidence is given to support some of his positions. That being said he provided many people with good care at one point in time when few others knew what to do for RSD. He is now long retired and his web site has not been updated for a few years. mrsD you provided us with some great information and food for thought. Thanks!

As far as cravings for sweets go, I used to have a horrible sweet tooth and needed carbs constantly, I have not been dx with fibro. Since I have changed my diet these past 6 months my cravings have reduced substantially. I get enough sugar now in my fresh fruits that I rarely have cravings. I will have chocolate on a special occasions or just before my period comes. Since I changed my diet I feel much better in many ways. I used to eat lots of red meat and carbs, it was a very unbalanced diet and that was reflected in my overall health and pain levels.

Roz, as far a neurotoxins go...they are in almost all processed foods now. MSG is now being disguised under a number of different names on food labels.

Quote:
MSG is what is known as an “excitotoxin,” a substance that artificially excites, and can damage the nervous system and brain.
More recently, manufacturers have begun replacing the stigmatized MSG with Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein (HVP), but this actually contains up to 40% MSG. Also watch for names like “yeast extract,” “hydrolyzed milk proteins,” “sodium caseinate,” “calcium caseinate” or simply “casein,” or “kombu extract”. MSG could also possibly be one of a number of ingredients under the umbrella terms “natural flavour,” “seasonings” or “spices”.
Neurotoxins /excitotoxins really is a whole other thread that I think needs to be discussed on the forum. I will post a separate thread with more information on this topic when I have a bit more time, unless someone else wants to have a go at it, and in that case I'll happily contribute.

Wishing you all a good day.

MsL

buckwheat 03-31-2009 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBOWLING (Post 489263)
Sorry, what do you mean:confused: My DC recommended a couple of doctors that I am looking into. They run clinics that look at what you eat, the meds you take and the exercise you get. They do blood work to check and see how food, meds and exercise interact in the body. The web site is lmihealth.com. I see my DC 3 times a week when there is no flair up and 5 times a week when there is. He is an activator chiro my body is too tender for his hands to touch. He is a God send. I'm sure his adjustments keep me off the heavy narcotics. After all this is a nerve condition and the spine is the central nervous system it makes sense to keep it aligned. I have full body RSD from my head to my toes and it effects my lungs and heart. Sorry to ramble soooooo!
Sbowling
Hi Sbowling,

This sounds like such a great opportunity for you.
Have they mentioned the Metabolic Code diet to you?

Hugs, Roz

Grammadur 03-31-2009 06:05 PM
You guys are great!
 
Thanks for all the info. I think it was Dr. H's puzzle I read that confused and frightened me. I'm reading so much lately it's overwhelming.

I'm not going to give up on chocolate.

buckwheat 03-31-2009 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandyRI (Post 489291)
Dude - with all due respect, what in the world are you talking about? what do neurotoxins have to do with chocolate?? Did I miss something?

Hi,

Chocolate is processed, I just believe their are toxins in processed food.

Hugs, Roz

Curious 03-31-2009 06:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckwheat (Post 489312)
Hi,

Chocolate is processed, I just believe their are toxins in processed food.

Hugs, Roz
Roz,

Chocolate, especially the dark chocolate is an antioxidant. http://www.mcmwin.com/antioxidant%20chocolate.htm
In small quanities...not eating a pound at a time :wink: is very good for you. Neuro's have been recommending it to people with Parkinson's for years. Good brain food. It does help with the dopamine levels in your brain.

buckwheat 03-31-2009 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mslday (Post 489303)
That's why I called it a myth! Some of the comments made by Dr. Hooshmand have taken on a life of their own. I simply pointed it out because I think that is where the myth started. To some people his RSD Puzzles have become fact when little to no evidence is given to support some of his positions. That being said he provided many people with good care at one point in time when few others knew what to do for RSD. He is now long retired and his web site has not been updated for a few years. mrsD you provided us with some great information and food for thought. Thanks!

As far as cravings for sweets go, I used to have a horrible sweet tooth and needed carbs constantly, I have not been dx with fibro. Since I have changed my diet these past 6 months my cravings have reduced substantially. I get enough sugar now in my fresh fruits that I rarely have cravings. I will have chocolate on a special occasions or just before my period comes. Since I changed my diet I feel much better in many ways. I used to eat lots of red meat and carbs, it was a very unbalanced diet and that was reflected in my overall health and pain levels.

Roz, as far a neurotoxins go...they are in almost all processed foods now. MSG is now being disguised under a number of different names on food labels.



Neurotoxins /excitotoxins really is a whole other thread that I think needs to be discussed on the forum. I will post a separate thread with more information on this topic when I have a bit more time, unless someone else wants to have a go at it, and in that case I'll happily contribute.

Wishing you all a good day.

MsL

Dear Msl,

I here you, I will shut up about detoxing. You are right it does belong on a different thread. Hugs

angelrsd 03-31-2009 09:32 PM
i also have fibro and have the craving also i dont eat choc alot becuase i have very sensitive teeth.. but i eat alot of fruits or cereals. or rice cakes. we dont have much of any processed food in the house becuase i have a child with food allergies that cant have soy milk or peanuts so there is more organic natural food. and for years that have been using HVP or fat for soy and msg. most veggie protiens are now soy based.. i think that eliminating choc depends on the person as this doesnt afect me one way or the other...

mrsD 03-31-2009 10:47 PM
Yes, I agree, there are health benefits to chocolate. I am not a big chocolate fan, but hubby is. I have some now and then, but he has it every day.

We both find the dark more satisfying.

As far as MSG goes, I've already posted this...MSG is BAD for nerves. It sets off peripheral neuropathy symptoms too, so I would expect it to be very problematic for RSDers.

It stimulates the NMDA pain receptors.

It has been my experience that most doctors are very poor chemists. They have very little chemistry, or medicinal chemistry in their training. Many doctors therefore do NOT understand how most drugs work. (they only listen to salespeople sell their products). When other issues appear therefore in the research doctors don't have the skills to evaluate the papers.

That comment about 10 grams of phenylethylamine is totally wacko. Alkaloids found in food are always in the microgram or low milligram level. Example... common caffeine. 100-200mg in a strong cup of coffee and much less in tea. And that is alot for an alkaloid found in a foodstuff.

Yes, I think an MSG thread would be very useful here. I'll make contributions, too, if you start one.

Also for example... The esteemed Dr. Latov in the PN field, recently wrote a book...on the various forms of peripheral neuropathy. He did not proofread or didn't understand his own words...he has TWO errors in the text telling people to take 500MG of B12.
This probably was meant to be 500mcg... but even that is low borderline. 1000mcg daily is better and more effective. So he must be friends in kind to Dr. Hooshmand? :thud:

Curious 04-01-2009 07:29 AM
You would think I would be all over this thread. :p Choccy was my fave food!

I still love it, but have no craving for it. I can leave it in the pantry. I end up throwing out holiday candy. Shocking huh?

I started taking cinnimon supplements over a year ago. I don't crave sweets at all.

Keeping my blood sugar leveled, SAMe, EFA's and daily vit's has helped my pain levels tremendously.

I do have my 1 cup of coffee in the morning. No other caffiene. I don't drink any type of soda.

Anything that might spike my pain level, just not worth it.

:grouphug:

SBOWLING 04-01-2009 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckwheat (Post 489309)
Hi Sbowling,

This sounds like such a great opportunity for you.
Have they mentioned the Metabolic Code diet to you?

Hugs, Roz
Hey Roz,

Yes, the Cincinnatti location is the Lavalle Metabolic Institute. I have talked to this office and one in Dayton Oh. I haven't decided what to do. I like what I have learned so far, I just talked to someone last week.

Thanks,
Sherrie

SBOWLING 04-01-2009 08:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curious (Post 489526)
You would think I would be all over this thread. :p Choccy was my fave food!

I still love it, but have no craving for it. I can leave it in the pantry. I end up throwing out holiday candy. Shocking huh?

I started taking cinnimon supplements over a year ago. I don't crave sweets at all.

Keeping my blood sugar leveled, SAMe, EFA's and daily vit's has helped my pain levels tremendously.

I do have my 1 cup of coffee in the morning. No other caffiene. I don't drink any type of soda.

Anything that might spike my pain level, just not worth it.

:grouphug:
Hello Curious,

I have an awful sweet tooth that is rarely satisfied. What kind of cinnimon substitue are you talking about?

Thanks,
Sbowling

Curious 04-01-2009 08:46 AM
It's a supplement. Comes in a pill/gel cap form. They are right there in the vitamin aisle. I get mine at WalMart. :)

We have many threads about it. You can use the Search button up on the NT toolbar. Just type in cinnamon.

My daughter, who will be 15 tomorrow takes it too. We both have a mega sweet tooth. :D I can tell when she misses a few days. Back to the cravings.

I will tell you something funny. Even she jokes about this. She took 2 of the gel caps one morning. A few minutes latter she did a little burp. Out came a little puff of cinnamon. :D Better than garlic huh? :wink:

If you can't find the threads...I'll search for you. They have links to sources and research.

:hug:

SBOWLING 04-01-2009 02:23 PM
I agree the cinnamon dust is better than a garlic. Thanks for the laugh!!!

mrsD 04-01-2009 03:33 PM
I've been putting cinnamon generously on my cereal too.
The whole grain Cherrios taste very good with it generously sprinked on them. I've also sprinkled it on rice pudding, and Crispix cereal, and oatmeal. Cinnamon is also very nice in pancakes and waffles.

I also sprinkle it on peanut butter (since I cannot have sugar anymore--no jelly).

Anyway you want it, it is good for you!

I found a very large container at SAMs club for less than $5. It will last me years at this rate.

Curious 04-01-2009 03:36 PM
I bake generously with it too. Always put in oatmeal. Yum.

lol...we even named our newest hamster Cinnamon. :D

MrsD can tell you...for years I have been known as the choccy-holic. :o

buckwheat 04-01-2009 07:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBOWLING (Post 489541)
Hey Roz,

Yes, the Cincinnatti location is the Lavalle Metabolic Institute. I have talked to this office and one in Dayton Oh. I haven't decided what to do. I like what I have learned so far, I just talked to someone last week.

Thanks,
Sherrie
Dear Sherrie,

Have you had any blood work for Gluten or Wheat allergies? I test positive for alot of food allergies. The diet I live on is very close to the Metabolic. Hugs, roz

Imahotep 04-01-2009 11:33 PM
I seem to have a little problem with chocolate that comes and goes. Coffee doesn't bother me as far as I can tell. I like the Hershey's dark as well but am careful with it. 4 or 5 ounces won't bother me as long as I'm eating right otherwise.

mimichicago 04-02-2009 11:15 AM
love your takedown of the hooshmand pseudoscience, mrsd! there's too much conflicting info out there to not do your own research. it can be daunting, and i appreciate your fact checking (fact checking is actually a big part of my office job).

kimmie 04-02-2009 11:30 AM
Hi
 
:) i have never heard of this i have had 15 years now. I :hug:it. it makes me feel good. but thank you for your news. god bless kim

Fireball 04-02-2009 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mslday (Post 488944)
I don't know how true Dr Hooshmands position on chocolate is, but this is probably where the myth comes from.

For the record I am very careful with my diet now, but chocolate is one of those rare indulgences I do not deny myself of. We all need treats every now and then.

I focus on an anti-inflammatory diet and it has helped me very much.

MsL
Oh my, he has a wonderful site with a fantastic puzzle on it. That's where I learned most of the true things about RSD, when I was first injured. His name caught my eye and I had to reply. Kudos to you. Soft hugs:hug:

SBOWLING 04-02-2009 09:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckwheat (Post 489865)
Dear Sherrie,

Have you had any blood work for Gluten or Wheat allergies? I test positive for alot of food allergies. The diet I live on is very close to the Metabolic. Hugs, roz
Hello Roz,
No, I haven't had blood work done for food allergies. It will be part of what they do at the Lavelle Clinic in Cincy.
Thanks for the interest,
Sherrie

tjbird 04-06-2009 10:38 AM
I was just told two weeks ago that with the RSD and all of my other issues, that I probably do have fibromyalgia. When I looked it up I could not believe how may symtomes in my life match! I have to take it to my pain center because they have to be the ones dealing with any pain issues.
tjbird


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