Short-term Memory Loss & Tiredness with RSD
 

Curious what others experienced with STM Loss and "tired of being tired". I got upset yesterday because I am noticing more STML and its kinda scary. Also, are both related to the medications or RSD? Advice on what helps for both. Mahalo!:grouphug:

Hi,
 

I have tiredness but it comes with the Cronic Fatigue Syndrome. I was wondering if that might be your problem with being tired. Also the meds can make you sleepy. The pain I would say from the RSD drains you also. It can be so bad that you just get tired from fighting it.

As far as the memory loss. I have it really bad also. I use to be really good at keeping up with things I put away and remembering names and things I need to do but not anymore.

I looked at my calender yesterday thinking I had missed my dermotolgist appt. and was going to call and apologize and reschedule but then I looked again and I was on the wrong month. I walk into a room and forget what I go into it for. ALL of the time. They say it comes with the RSD.

Sorry you are having these problems but they do seem to come with the territory of RSD.

Welcome to the group.

Ada

The short term memory loss can be caused by some meds as well as rsd. Well, it happens to anyone with chronic pain. The brain is so busy trying to field pain signals 24/7 it has no "room" left to deal with remembering things.

Chronic pain also has an effect on sleep. Anyone with cp has sleep disruption many times throughout the night. Without being able to get into REM sleep for a few hours, your body can't recharge and become rested. REM sleep is crucial not only to rest but also to memory. If your brain is sluggish because of pain and lack of sleep, it will make your ability to remember things harder.

We all know how you feel for sure. I'm so used to being tired I don't think about it much. Kind of like with most things, you just get "used to it" with the body adjusting as it goes along. It really stinks! Sorry I didn't have anything cheerier to say about it. lolol

Hugs,

Karen

Hi AiKane,

Unfortunately, Short Term Memory Loss and RSD tend to go hand-in-hand. I have very bad short term memory loss - I can literally say or do something and then forget what I did a minute later!!!! It is SO scary and annoying at times but I have learnt to try and get "used to it". My mum told my school teachers that my short term memory is affected by the RSD but they don't really understand how something is wrong with my leg and arms but yet my memory is affected also!!!

RSD affects the Limbic part of the Brain which is the area that controls memory and other things. I think some meds cause short term memory loss also so it might be worthwhile checking out the side effects of any medications you are on. I'm not on any meds at the moment because they didn't help and the side effects often outweighed the benefits.

I also get very tired a lot. It takes me a long time to wake up and even if I sleep a lot (which is pretty rare now), I still dont wake up feeling refreshed and always feel fatigued. Has anyone ever looked into Fibromyalgia?? Many people with RSD also suffer from Fibro and researches believe that if you have RSD, you are at greater risk of developing Fibro. My Pain Management Doctor told me that he was 99.9% certain that I had Fibro but because of the RSD, he couldn't tell for certain.

It's really frustrating that I am always tired as it can really affect my school work and we cant plan anything really as I might be too tired on that day or in too much pain. For me, a lot of the meds that I was on, caused the fatigue to be worse so I think that was one of the reasons why I came off them as well as they weren't doing anything - I am still VERY fatigued now but it isn't quite as bad as what it was when I was on some meds!!!!

I'm sorry that you are having to deal with all of this also:hug:!! I wish I could help you more but I cant unfortunately - just know that I care about you and that you aren't alone!!!

I relate to all of the above. It is so embarrassing when I can't remember my words, when I am talking. I excuse myself by saying, "Sorry, sometimes I lose my words." I sometimes call one thing by another name, or even say, I know the word but starts with a "B"????, or whatever letter I understand the word to begin.

I do believe that the meds and general brain fog from RSD cause the ML. The tiredness is from being in chronic pain 24/7, insomnia, depression,anxiety, and other disorders. There are many reasons for being tired...we must keep our chins up, and "own" what we all share in common. It doesn't make us weak;in contrast, it makes us stronger.:grouphug:

Dew

Memory
 

Hi, AiKane
I'm new to this too but welcome! Memory loss is scary - I'm having it too. I take 300 mg of Lyrica daily and have been told that it's the medication. But I'm sure there's a lot to do with the RSD as well. I can also cry at the drop of a hat which isn't like me.

We can make fun of the memory loss with friends and family but those at work don't understand. Most think I have early onset Alzheimer's. They don't understand RSD - but then again neither did I 'til I got it.

Yes I agree with you all, especially Ali's comment about how RSD affects the Limbic brain. Ali I think you are a very smart young lady!

When my lidocaine starts to wear off, or if my rsd flares up it is like my brain slows down and I become very tired. Sometimes it feels like my brain is a jumbled scrambled mess as the pain signals take over. I can feel it coming on, I can't seem to concentrate, focus or get all the words out straight. I had my Lidocaine infusion yesterday (my dr. put me back on the IV infusion) and I feel great today, no pain, lots of energy and a I am very clear and focused. I always get twice as much done in the 1st week following my infusions. It's like I'm back to my old self again, typically this lasts for about 2 weeks.

The other possibility is that the STM loss could be caused from a hormonal imbalance. It is typically a symptom of peri-menopause but considering the fact that RSD affects our adrenal glands it's no wonder most of us have STM loss and and feel tired. Having RSD is like having a foot stuck on the gas peddle full throttle constantly without a break. That can certainly through off the rest of the hormones. Have you considered having your hormones checked? I find it interesting that the median age of patients diagnosed with RSD is 43 around the time of more rapid hormonal decline for woman, men too are affected by this.

I'm learning German right now, very slowly, I have a hard time remembering the words I just learned...LOL. I have to keep repeating everything over and over again and again. Despite my shortcomings in linguistic abilities I soldier on and practice each day. I've read that learning a new language can help keep your brain in good shape, something to do with brain placicty. Brain Plasticity refers to the brains ability to change in response to experience , learning and thought. Neuroscientists once believed that the brain was wired for life and change could not occur and decline as a person aged, was inevitable.

You might have seen Dr. Amen on PBS?

The way I look at it is "I may have RSD but RSD doesn't have me" I don't recall where I got that quote from... LOL, but it's a good one worth repeating. I plan to do everything I can each day to keep in the game as long as I possibly can with the least possible medications.


MsL

words
 

I second what GalenaFaolan said in her post.

I have problems with fatigue most of the time, but usually it's fairly mild and it's become part of "the new normal" for me. Some days, particularly in the afternoon or evening, it's pretty bad.

Short-term memory loss for me is probably a symptom from the meds, and usually isn't too bad. I think it's part of the overall "brain fog". However, I also frequently have difficulties coming up with a word I want to say. Aphasia, I think it's called. It's annoying and sometimes embarrassing.

Short Term Memory Loss & Fatigue
 

It is ironic that this subject came up as I was in a different support group early this morning talking about this very issue. I call doing things and not remember doing it, and then I have to "Check on Myself". I have a real hard time about reaching in the frig for my box of cerial, and then I will open the freezer door to get the milk:D The other thing is going into a room and not knowing why I am there. I put things in certain spots to keep them until I need them at a later date, I have two air fresheners for my car that I have no clue where they are. It is part of the RSD/CRPS symtoms.
As far as being tired, I am exhausted, continuos pain can do that as well as the meds. I'll give you an example of me just yesterday, I went to get groceries and it was a high pain day and I hadn't been sleeping good the two previous nights, I had too much to use the ride cart so I had to walk. It was a long journey and actually took me an hour and a half. Then I had to carry it in and put it away:( Well by the time I got the kitchen cleaned up and supper fixed and I was eating and my husband woke me up three times before he just took my plate to the kitchen. Going to bed exhausted (actually a recliner is my bed) then waking up exhausted. Try to laugh at yourself from time to time especially when you recoginised a really stupid thing. I go to college but I can't remember why I am in a certain room. And when you get toally exhausted, be extra good to yourself:wink:
Take Care
tjbird

Want to thank everyone for their comments. I guess it is something I need to accomodate for.

Wow, am I glad this thread was started! For me, the memory loss is not as bad as the fatigue. There are evenings when I can barely finish my meal before I am out so deeply my wife can't do anything to wake me. The first time this happened, I ended up in the ER. This can be really scary.

I have has so many exams and tests to figure out why I am getting so tired, and everything simply points back to the extreme pain. Fighting it just takes so much energy, I am just totally sapped by the time I get home at night.

Thanks to everyone for their comments. I can relate to them all.

Love,

Mike :cool:

Hi Mike,
 

Ice cold water will work. That's how my Mom use to get my brothers up for school. You might not want to let the wife know this though. LOL

Do you have CFS. I was diagnosed with Fibro and CFS before RSD. I am just like you on this. I go to bed and watch a little tv but I am out by 9 or 10. I get so tired that I can't think straight or talk straight.

My Dr. called me one evening to give me some test results and I told him I wasn't drugged or drunk. He knew that but I sure wouldn't have known it if I didn't know myself. It's very frustrating. I was talking like a drunk.

Ada

Anyone ever have a sleep study done?
After I acquired the TBI, I got apnea, real bad. People would panic, because I would stop breathiing. (I was always a snorer).
I use a CPap now, and it's like night and day, how alert I am as opposed to if I don't use it.

Also,
Anyone ever been put on "Provigal"?
It's an EVIL medication, if you have RSD, but, they're promoting it as a "smart" drug.
College kids, lawyers, etc. are using it. To me, it's just legal speed. Expensive too!
I use "Aricept", and other "Altzheimer's" meds that my doctor sample me with.
They're excellent, and no side effects.
If I forget to take it, I'm stupid all day. (This goes as treatment for the TBI).

these are just thoughts......

Pete
ASB

Pete,

Just wondering why you refer to provigil as EVIL for RSD patients. Jeff has taken it in the past for his fatigue due to sleep apnea which he had before RSD. It didn't work for him so he quit it. I take it occasionally when I'm on night shift and have to stay awake the next day for something. It doesn't make me jittery or feel like I'm speeding like the old over the counter stay awake pills. Just lets me stay awake and not feel like a zombie. Jeff has extreme fatigue but not any problems with short term memory loss yet. (Thank goodness, because I have trouble with that myself somedays and I dont have a medical condition.) :winky:

Teresa

fatigue and brain fuzz
 

I like Ada was diagnosed with CFS/Fibro 1999 lasted 5 years then in 2007 RSD. Even though I beat C&F I still get what I call waves of fatigue like I had long ago and listen to my body and rest instead of fighting it. As far as memory loss I thought the pain meds & neurontin were causing that and asked my dr if it would be permanent after I stopped taking and he said no it should go away. Well maybe it takes longer for drugs to get out of the system but I am still having brain issues. Concentration, repeating myself, on & on & on. So I believe it is part of RSD but hopeful the more lists I write and lose and try to find again it will all come back. LOL

DebbieXX

Hiya Teresa,
I call it Evil, for RSD, because for me, it "Drove" the pain to insane levels. (I needed it for my TBI, though). My pain meds were raised to insane levels too.
It was horrific. I know that the company is going to lose their patent soon, and is coming out with another "blend". I think it's going to be "lighter".
Not sure. I do know that some folks really swear by it.
It's just me.
But, I get jumpy from a cup of coffee...
So, take that into consideration..

I know that two drugs I've seen / been prescribed,
Seroquel, and Provigal.
Downs to go to bed, and Ups to clear your head...

That's like life in the 70's. A sad life.

Memory, sleep disorders, etc. are ALL common with RSD, and the meds we take for it. There are some great books you can get. In fact, it's just common sense, too.
ALWAYS, put your keys in the same place.
Things like that.

Be well Ya'll!

Pete
asb

Antsobad
 

I have sleep apnea. Was diagnosed with it about 2 years ago.

When I had my sleep apnea test, they bought the machine out the next day. I have an implant in me and we thought it was causing the breathing problems at night but they just tested me a month ago and I'm the same way and the implant has been turned off for sometime so we know that wasn't it.

I don't know though if it comes with RSD or if it's just something we come up with as we get older.

Ada

Pete, I was on Provgil for quite some time & I really liked it. It helped me stay focused & not be so drowsy during the day. I am sorry it didn't work for you. The problem is the expense of it. Even with insurance it cost me $100 a month. I become tolerant to my meds fairly easily & it had stopped being of any significant relief to me & I was going to have to increase my dosage. I wasnt really willing to do that. So I have stopped taking it. I know in 2010 its supposed to become generic. If I feel I still need then I will try it again hoping after a break it will work again. WHen I first got RSD I was trying to go to school. I had thought this was all going to get better. ANd I may not go back to my physical job but I would work again. If it hadnt been for Provigil I would have had a tougher time with school. Meds works so different for each of us. Thats the bad part about RSD. Alot of us take the same kinds of meds but nothing seems to be set in stone for us. I hope your on medications that work for you now.
Wishing you a low pain day,
Denny

Before the final diagnosis of RSD I was diagnosed with Fibro. My doctor still believes that to be true. I think alot of my fatigue comes form just fighting pain all day long. Its exhausting. And then theres the sleep issue. I sleep but its far from restful. Memory loss is awful. I write everything down. If I dont forget it. It will not get taken care of. I make lists of the stops I have to make when I go to town. Usually in order. I have to be organized to get things done. It was never like this before. Today is three years since I worked my job. I miss it still so much & wonder when the grieving process will end. I wonder if it ever will.

So does RSD cause brain damage?

dennyfan
 

dennyfan,
Don't be too hard on yourself. Many of us are in the same boat. It does take a while to adjust to the major changes in our lives. There is a different life for us now and we have to learn how to live and move within those parameters.
Each of us finds our ways at different times and to a different place. Hang in there. :) Di

How RSDS/CRPS Affects the Brain
When there is poor circulation to the brain stem (which is in most cases with RSDS patients.) memory loss, dizziness, poor focusing of eye muscles, poor balance, and migraines result. These are the problems when the disease causes constriction of the vertebral arteries. There can be constant pain in the limbic system (Frontal and Temporal lobes) which causes the memory loss, but also irritability and sometimes insomnia. Anti-depressants can be used, and are sometimes a helper in relieving the symptoms.



Read more: Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy Syndrome: How RSDS Affects the Brain, the Symptoms, and How to Diagnose It - http://neurologicalillness.suite101....#ixzz0BvpazKKA
]

i have had so many of these problems the migranes lossing my car in parking garage. to tired to get up sometimes. it drives me nuts most of the times. or just the problem of not sleeping and then the SX goes nuts. i also do have damage to my brain from the car accident that caused my rsd.. i see certain colors different or like my vision is like an 80yrs old. im 27 for god sakes. but i think that tiredness and migranes are the worse for me..

im glad that someone started this .. great idea!!!!!

carrie

The exhaustion and migraines are also an issue for me - how do you treat them? have you found anything that works?

DianeA, Thank you. There have been a lot more major changes like my counselor pointed out on Monday. It would probably be better if that where the only one. But on top opf that last year just before my 20 year wedding anniversay my husband & I had to file for divorce to protect him from all my medical bills & being responsible for me anymore. We needed to protect the house & everything we had worked so hard for. It was worth it but at the same time it was devastasting. It just seems to never end. You just keep finding one more thing you lose again & again thanks to RSD. Thanks for the support.
Hugs, Denny

not really i have horrible reactions to most migraine meds the triptons in it make my mouth and throat swell. so basicly all i can do is take my phenergan and zanaflex and try to go to sleep. but i get migraines that can last as long as a week and i have the whole tunnel vision and vomitting .. so its always fun (not!) but there are alot of meds out there for it .. they say that topamax helps with them but it didnt for me ... sorry im not that much help on this subject



denny-i am so sorry that you and your husband had to do this. its amazing how much this can change out lives hang in there


carrie

Dennyfan
 

I'm so sorry. You are a survivor. And you are smart to have a counselor. There is a lot of support here. Wishing you well Sandy

Just got more test results back
 

Well this week just made me not like life even more. So I found out that I am in with the like 2% of people with RSD where it causes you to end up with kiddney failure due to working the bladder too hard and since the disease caused this they can't do anything to fix it. And on top of that I just got another test result back yesterday and well yep no more sort term memory unless I write everything down like I've been doing for about 4 months now. Can it ever get any better.:ranting::ranting::ranting:

hi,
 

I was just thinking this morning about journaling again due to my problems getting worse. I did it for about 3 years and stopped but I think it's important to keep up with how we do each day.

My memory loss seems to have gotten worse. My Dr. was laughing at me awhile back because I couldn't think of the word tie. I was complimenting him on his tie and I said shirt. After 20 years though he knows what I mean. I have a 26 year old friend that finishes my sentences for me all of the time. I think that's amazing when they know you well enough that they actually know what you mean. But very embarrassing. This is all of the time too. It is an everyday thing for me. I'm 59 so I don't know if the age thing might add to it.

As far as meds, I can't chalk it up to my pain meds because I have just started using them again after a year.

Luckily we all can relate to each other here and know what the other one means when they say something that doesn't come out right.

Ada

Fatigue & Short term memory
 

I agree with most of the other posters and you must realize that the fatigue alone can come from what your body goes through during a flare due to the pain, it is nothing short of exhausting. Short term memory? How many of us can function at 100% when constantly distracted by pain.

Other things to consider would of course be meds and perhaps lack of sleep.

I also suffer from migraine type pain and find that benzo's - klonopin, ativan, valium, tend to help most with these along with a dark cave. :winky:

I certainly may be wrong but I don't believe the memory and fatigue are so much symptoms of the disease as symptoms of the treatments and toll it takes on the body.

Feel better
Dawn

Hi! I also experience short term memory loss and poor concentration. I attribute it to meds and not sleeping well but when i met with a neurologist well known for RSD he said RSD/CRPS causes changes which include stm loss and decrease concentration. For me it has been scarey because i have left the stove on and much more. These things have worked and helped me- I have a timer in kitchen incase i turn anything on or plug anything in. I have a calendar which everyone writes on and i check it every morning to make sure i dont miss or forget something. I have a pill box which is filled once a week so i am sure i take/took my meds(I could never remember if i took them or not) this has really helped. momof4

Neuropsychological deficits associated with Complex Regional Pain Syndrome
 

This is an example of what can happen when folks pick up on old threads, and are unaware of intervening activity.

The key to the whole issie is in an article that was Epubbed on March 19th: Neuropsychological deficits associated with Complex Regional Pain Syndrome, Libon DJ, Schwartzman RJ, Eppig J, Wambach D, Brahin E, Lee Peterlin B, Alexander G, Kalanuria A, J Int Neuropsychol Soc. 2010 May;16(3):566-73, RSDSA ONLINE TEXT @ http://www.rsds.org/2/library/articl...ychol_2010.pdf:

Department of Neurology, Drexel University, College of Medicine, Philadelphia, PA 19102, USA. dlibon@Drexelmed.edu

Abstract
We sought to elucidate the existence of neuropsychological subtypes in Complex Regional Pain Syndrome (CRPS). One hundred thirty seven patients with CRPS were administered tests that assess executive control, naming/lexical retrieval, and declarative memory. A 2-step cluster analysis that does not require any a priori specification regarding the number of clusters, classified patients into three groups. Group 1 obtained scores that were in the average range on all tests (n = 48; normal CRSP group). Group 2 (n = 58; dysexecutive CRSP group) presented with mild impairment or statistically low average test performance on working memory/verbal fluency tests. Group 3 (n = 31; global CRSP group) produced scores in the statistically low average/borderline range on all tests with particularly reduced scores on naming/declarative memory tests. Between-group analyses found that the CRPS group 1 obtained higher scores than CRPS groups 2 and 3 on all tests. However, groups 2 and 3 were equally impaired on executive tests. CRPS group 3 was impaired on tests of naming/memory tests compared to the other groups. Significant neuropsychological deficits are present in 65% of patients, with many patients presenting with elements of a dysexecutive syndrome and some patients presenting with global cognitive impairment. [Emphasis added.]

PMID: 20298641 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20298641

And that was added 2/3 of the way along what was already a great thread on the subject - page 5, post#48 - Any others with RSD have memory/ concentration problems? http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/sh...ad.php?t=12479 I would urge anyone interested to check it out.

Mike

Along with countless other RSD symptoms, I definately have a horrible memory & really bad fatigue.

It's strange, I don't know if other people who have had this longer than I feel this way, but there comes a time when then pain isn't nearly as punishing as it was in the first four or five years or so. For me the neuro-cognitive stuff really seemed cut in around year 7 or so, although the Libon article suggests that in the 2/3rds of the CRPS patients who have some neuro-cognitive issues, it is independent of the length of illness. And with my loss of memory as well as organizational skills, etc., I appear to be in the unlucky quarter of RSD/CRPS patients. (Although that said, I think because of early blocks I was lucky to have avoided some of the other horrors of the disease.)

All I know is that at Years 0 and 2, the discrepancy between my verbal and non-verbal IQ sub-scores on the WISC-III was 22, consistent with a late diagnosis of fairly severe ADHD (inattentive), while by Year 8.5 the split had grown to what I was told is an astounding 45 points.

That and I floored my pain doc a couple of months ago, when I said that I would prefer pain as I had known it, over the neuro-cognitive stuff. Years of meditation practice have made dealing with physical pain fairly straightforward: you acknowledge but don't identify with it. Sort of like standing under a waterfall, you get wet from the spray but you're not pulled into the vortex below. For me, it's more challenging to have equanimity with never finishing a long article, let alone a book, to say nothing of remembering proper nouns. Or lose my train of thought mid-way through responding to what someone said in a conversation. Or to be treated by former peers (and some friends) like a kindly old and demented uncle. Or to take weeks in what should be filling out some simple forms . . . .

So I feel for you, anyone who happens to have caught a ride in this boat.

Mike

PS Unlike Pete’s experience, I tolerate Provigil pretty well, which helps with the fatigue that I personally had associated with medication, although I am carefull to take at least 500 mg. of Vit. B-1 (Thiamin) a day. That said, when I tried the newer Nuvigil, my BP shot up 30 – 40 points on both ends.

PPS I caught and corrected some mistakes in my last post, including an unfortunate choice of words that was not meant as it may have sounded. My apologies if I came across as insensitive. (Clueless at times yes, but insensitive no.)

Short term memory loss just goes with it
 

9 years ago I got my first PDA Palm Pilot to help me remember all the stuff I just couldn't keep track of in my brain thanks to this bloody short term memory loss - and I've never looked back since. After going through 3 Palm Pilots I finally made the jump into a Smart Phone IPhone, but all the devices have accomplished the same task. They help keep me more organized in thought and action.

There are cheap $30 organizers that work pretty darn good, but if you're willing to blow a bit more money I can't recommend the usability of a PDA (personal digital assistant) type device enough. Be it reminders on what I need to do throughout the day or for keeping track of people, places and things I need to pick up at the store, the multiple ways I use these handy little devices throughout the day surprises even me.

Do expect around a 6 month growing in period, but I think once you make the leap into keeping your thoughts digitized you'll be glad you did. Now I just hope I remember I wrote this, Bob.

Bob -

Unfortunately, over some time now, I've largely lost my ability to manage new gadgets, especially those of the electronic persuasion, with multi-functional buttons to boot. It's called loss of executory function.

Mike

Hello to all. My first post. Yesterday I got lost on the way to the neurologist. Big bummer, I don't get lost. I can trace it back to where I made the wrong turn but have no idea why. I'm guessing I'm not going to be able to keep this part secret much longer.

I don't really keep secrets, it is just that things are so bizarre, there is no rational way to explain. I have been coming clean w/the Dr. I really didn't know I wasn't because I was lying to myself about the level of my pain. But my slowness was difficult to overcome. How in the world did everyone else get on hyperspeed? I feel like I'm still moving normal, well I did anyway. Now I'm realizing that the slug on the sidewalk would beat me to the curb. But I'm not allowed to go, too many steps off my daily limit and what is at the curb.

What a great forum this is. Been lurking for a bit, but decided to jump in today.