Any teachers here?
 

Calling all teachers, especially any who lecture at university level.

Managers who are involved with interviews or promotions might also be able to help me with this one.

What do you do, when councelling is definitely not an option, if a student or an applicant for a position within your company, threatens to commit suicide if they fail the exam/test/assignment/criteria that's been set for them?

Right now I'm having to to deal with this dilemma.

This person is a mature aged, 23 year old, university student, and although I didn't set the work for her to do, I have been trying to help her get her assignment up to a reasonable standard prior to presenting it for assessment.

I know this girl's work is not good enough to pass. Her assignment is due in 4 days and so far it's taken her 10 days to write 250 words towards a 1500 word assignment. If she doesn't improve a whole lot very quickly I'm fairly sure she's going to fail. If she does fail, she's threatening to take her own life.

Please don't tell me that she's only saying that to get attention or to get more assistance, because I believe her. I'm a pretty good judge of character and I know in my own heart that this girl will do what she says if she fails.

She's an overseas student who's here in this country for the sole purpose of getting this university degree. She tells me that in her country failure means shame, and she refuses to live with shame! She will commit suicide if she does not pass this course.

I am being emotionally blackmailed here, and I'm an innocent bystander who offered to help. Actually, I didn't offer to help.... some-one else volunteered my services and this student was so grateful that I didn't have the heart to say no.

There's no point saying get some-one else to talk to her, because she won't agree. 3 days ago I told her that her work leads much more work to pass, and since then we've had 3 days of tears.

The background is more involved than I wrote here. I was going to put it all down, but when I typed it up, there was 2 pages full, so I thought I'd write a very basic outline and see if anyone had any suggestions.

I don't want to be the cause of this girl's death, but I will not do her work for her. Does anyone have any suggestions please? I'm worn out emotionally and beside myself with worry.

:hug: Koala.

wow!

I'm wondering if the problem is a language issue? Is the student not understanding the requirements?

At my children's universities, if they can't finish assignments in time, they need to talk with their course co-ordinators and explain why they can't get it in on time. Same with other parts of the course. Some things can be done online, but some classes must be attended. If mandatory classes are not attended there needs to be either a doctor's certificate or other evidence which needs to be witnessed by a Justice of the Peace.

It's a little confusing because it's difficult to know exactly what's going on with the student you're talking about here. Does this student understand our language well enough to communicate and read all the directions regarding the course?

Which language does this girl speak naturally and do you speak this language?

hi koala
 

hi Koala


I am being emotionally blackmailed here? yes mate you are, its important to set boundaries before you take on any role were you can find your self in a position like this, I was once a holotropic therapist if some one started to behave in this manner I would get angry, because we stated that we would not work with them if they try ed to pull this kind of stunt thus nipping it in the bud

if some one came to you and said they were going to kill some one, if you did not give them what they wanted, you would think they were ether criminal or insane and I hope you would either have them arrested or sectioned under your countries mental health act



She's an overseas student who's here in this country for the sole purpose of getting this university degree. She tells me that in her country failure means shame ok they probably stone woman and circumcise young girls that dos not make it right and is NO excuse for HER behavior to you who after all is trying to help her



I don't want to be the cause of this girl's death YOU !!!!!!!! are NOT !!!!! it is her own upbringing her culture and her psychological state that make her feel that there is no option do NOT BUY into that



councelling is definitely not an option . NOT AN OPTION if she has not the time or the skills to pass this part of the degree then the university should have a protocol and a councilor that,s trained to deal with it that,s your only option and hers


please? I'm worn out emotionally and beside myself with worry

**Edited**

you asked for help so I have replied the best I can whats doc john,s advice in the passed on this

That's an excellent point Lara and I hope she's talking to a counselor at the University.

Koala I can't tell you anything that you don't already know. You cannot be held hostage for her threat...it isn't in your power to prevent her making this choice. And I'd tell her that suicide is not the way to solve problems.
I'd try to "guilt" her about leaving you with this memory ...that isn't how one shows their gratitude for your help.

Remember...no good deed goes unpunished. :hug: I love you.

just a quick btw before I try to head out again... although I reckon you're sound asleep while I type this up in flooding SEQ.

Some overseas students actually might find it difficult to accept counselling due to their misconceptions about what counselling is all about. ? It may be a continuance of the failure thoughts. <sigh> The Uni. would have specialist counsellors who can help you out for sure. I was just checking this out for you... Counselling Myths, FAQs, Online Advice and Useful Links It's from the Univeristy of Western Sydney which I hadn't heard of but it has some good stuff there.

The Uni where this student attends would have guidelines. I often cross over the guidelines to help people, but in this case you might want to actually seek some help yourself, Koala. :hug: There must be people there on campus who can guide you through this in the appropriate manner. "Appropriate" meaning with caring and understanding as well as looking at all the options. This is not a situation that you should be dealing with alone. You need your co-workers assistance. None of this is about you.

Tread carefully dear friend.

**Edited**

No threat of suicide should ever be taken lightly.

Anne, what are the guidelines on giving her extra work or letting her re-do work she has failed? Can she apply for an extension?

I would let a counselor of the school know what is going on, so there is a record. Maybe she can get more help with passing ( not just get passed..but more time, that type of thing) if it's known she is suffering mentaly.

If you just got volunteered for this , I'd contact the school or whoever volunteered you and explain what is going on and tell them it is beyond your scope of "helping".

The school needs to know her mind set, I'm sure they have someone who can talk with her and help her with her problems.

I think a step back from this , and pass her on to the school assessment/counseling team.

maybe she is not mean to be studying that line of courses.

..or just something is not a fit for her.

Thank you so much for your replies. I didn't want to bore you with a really long post, but I can see that by only giving you half the story, I made it too difficult for you to give me a proper reply. With that in mind, I'll give you the one I originally wrote, so I apologise for it's length and any parts that I've already told you.

Here's the background:

My cousin takes in students from overseas (one each year), and in the past she's always had senior high school students. This year her student is a 23 year old lass from China who's studying a Nursing degree at university. Her family, who all live in China, are not well off financially but are paying all the necessary education fees and living costs for this girl while she's in Australia.

This is not her real name, but to make it easier I'll call her Alice.

Alice speaks passable English, but her written English and her understanding of the language is quite poor. She came to Australia towards the end of last year, so she could take a bridging course in English before the nursing course started. That course ran for 4 months and she got 60% in her final assessment; the pass mark being 60%!

Alice is now attempting her very first nursing assignment, and all of the information she needs to complete it is in the case study provided by the university. It's a straight forward 5 part essay. Each part is to be around 300 words, and will most probably be the easiest assignment required of her during the whole 3 year Bachelor program.

Because I was a University Nurse Educator, I told her I would help her a little with the nursing part of the course but I have spent the past 8 days emailing her back and forth, and talking with her on the telephone, trying to help her understand what is required of her.

The due date for this assignment is in 4 days time, and so far she has only "completed" part one of the 5 necessary parts. I have returned it to to her over and over for correction, and she has yet to represent it to me at university standard. She's not even commenced the other 4 parts which are more involved and harder than the initial part.

Now for my problem. Despite all the help that I'm giving her, I think she will fail this assignment and most probably the whole semester, because of the language problem which she refuses to acknowledge. She works hard and is very bright. If not for her poor English, I think she would do very well in her studies, but because of this very reason I have suggested that she withdraw from the nursing course now, before she fails, and go back to studying English.... at least for the first half of the year .... then restart the Nursing course at a later date. I don't mean forget about it all together, I just mean defer it until she has a better grasp of the written word and it's interpretation.

That suggestion has led to 3 days of tears! Alice says that her family do not have the money to pay for any extra studies in English, which is probably true, and that she must struggle on.

In another reply to that suggestion, she says that because she passed the bridging course, then her English must be very good or she would not have passed. The fact that she only just scraped through is irrelevant. She cannot, or will not, see that she has a problem. No matter how gentle the explanation, she takes it as direct criticism and bursts into tears.

She is afraid of failure. For her, the shame of failure is so great that she says she will kill herself if she fails..... that she will not be permitted to return home because she will have shamed her parents, and could not and will not, live with that.

I believe her! I don't think this threat of suicide is just idle talk and I fear that she will really will go ahead with it. I'm being emotionally blackmailed! Even my cousin is making me feel that it will be my fault if Alice takes her own life. She (my cousin) is being totally unreasonable and I am frightened for this girl's life.

I will not do her assignments for her! I have told Alice that, and I've told my cousin that, but my cousin keeps on reminding me that Alice will commit suicide if she fails, and asks couldn't I spend more time helping her out?

I have spent hours and hours trying to help this girl, but I am beside myself with worry now! The fear of her suicide threat is wearing me down. What on earth can I do when even my cousin refuses to see it from my point of view?


Addit. I have now convinced her to ask for an extension on her due date.

You have done everything you can dear friend. You are not responsible for the poor choices she has made and is continuing to make. Just wanting something isn't good enough...life isn't like that as you well know.

Shame on your counsin for dumping this on you and trying to guilt you into the impossible. Alice needs to grow up and accept the reality of her situation...it will be so very sad if she kills herself, for whatever reason...but hear me..It has nothing to do with you and what you have tried to do for her. :grouphug:

Koala,
Is there any way that you can contact her counselor at the University??

There has got to be someone there that speaks the same dialect of Chinese that Alice does. Maybe someone there can talk to her in her language to calm her down and help her to realize that she is not failing if she steps back and takes more English. Maybe they can help her see that if her English improves then her nursing studies will come easier and that by asking for help she is actually succeeding!!!!

I don't know about there but I live in a college town with many students and spouses from all over the world. Our town has an adult learning center that teaches english for free.... these courses are also offered at our local libraries and one of our community centers.

I don't doubt that she is very serious about suicide but you are not to blame and no one should expect you to do Alice's homework for her.

There has got to be something somewhere to help her....
:confused:
Abbie

Anne, in the long run, if you or others keep doing her work and she passes and becomes a nurse, how many will be hurt from her lack of knowledge?

I think you have done what you can.

If her standard of doing well is a 60%, like Alffe said she needs to grow up and accept responsibilty.

If her family doesn't have the money, then she needs to apply for a work permit ( or what they have there down under:wink:) and earn her own way to take these course again and pass at a higher %.

Find all the resources you can. Give them to your cousin. Not to be harsh, but it sounds like she passing this all onto you. When you take in an exchange student, they become your family while they are there.

You are not to blame, no matter what. :hug:

I just saw the last bit...YAY!! She needs that extension and you should be proud of her when she asks. Awesome!!

Thank you ladies. :grouphug:

Alffe, I know that it would not be my fault should she carry through her threat, but I couldn't live with myself if she did. My common sense agrees with you, but my conscience won't. :(

Abbie thank you for the Adult English studies idea. I don't know if they offer it free here but I will suggest it to my cousin. She can look into that part. I've already suggested the Uni councelor, but that idea hit a brick wall.

Curious, I suggested the work visa thing to my cousin yesterday, but she changed the subject. I'll be phoning her soon, so I'll bring it up again.

Thank you for your suggestions.

Is her goal to have a nursing degree in China? If so, I wonder if there is any way she could study in China?

I feel sorry that you have been put into such a troubling position.

She intends to gain her nursing degree then return to China to work. I don't know the reason why she didn't consider doing it in China, but that's irrelevant now because she's here, and here for that reason only.

Her family have paid the fees in advance ($25,000-$30,000), so she really has to work hard. I don't know if they lose their money if she fails.

The university where she's studying has an excellent name overseas (and in Oz), and it attracts students from all over the world. Maybe that was part of the reason, I don't know. Maybe degrees obtained in English speaking countries have greater standing where she lives; maybe they guarantee employment at the best establishments.... I don't know, but I do know it's probably not a good time to ask her about it now. Not when we're going through this traumatic period.

You might just need to be firm with your cousin, that you will not ever do the school work for anyone in a situation like this.

And that the stress and now the pressure from her and the girl is not good for your health at all.

If the girl can't cut it she needs to help herself - a job, free English lessons etc
She really should go to the school and ask for help there.
as others suggested.

I'm miffed that your cousin is putting you in this spot.:(

((Koala)) I can't offer any suggestions other haven't already... I just wanted to let you know I was holding you in my thoughts during this trying time. Much love my friend:hug::hug:Nikki

Koala


I read your thread at work earlier today, i could not respond then so now i will try .


We as individual human beings are entirely responsible for everything we do in this life [unless we have diminshed resonsibility through ill health]

The young lady in question has overdosed on her family's expectations of her self. I am a firm belever that we owe are children everything, yet we owe our parents nothing [other than resPect]
As children we arrive not through choice, but via the choice of a human couple [our parents]

To bestowe a parents hardship on their child is woeful.............but it happens daily arround the world.

In some countries your offspring are there,... not only to enhance your life...but there to potentialy pro-long your life.......................

This poor girl....has her family's life/future [on her shoulders] a burdn no child should carry.


Most Universities around the world have ....health workrs/welfare worekers.

My ADVICE to you Dear Koala.......is take her by the hand to a relevant Social Care representative of the University..prefereably with a Chineeese speaking individual who can convey to this young lady anything she does not understand.

Then formaly tell the Social/health/welfare worker what this young woman is contemplating..............................

State her failure is driven by the overwhelming presure to perform and succeeed by her family .....and their expectations.

It may upset the young lady to her her dilema expossed in front of others.........but if it prevents her from SUICIDE..........so be it........#
#

She may even then ...........if offered imideate counselling to overcome her grief of failure ..............with the realisation that........although we came from family.......................the life we now have is our's and the choices we make should also be ours...ASWELL.................

To live a life for someone else.............or live it by the design of others is.....a sham...................................it becomes an existance and not a life.........

Firmly place this young girl's crisis into the hands of professionals..........who can help her see her dilema is caused by THE over expectation, from her family...........and with foresight.........if she had any other job, and pursued it with conviction.................she could if relevant repay her parents and support them in the future if iT's the intended reason for their expectation.


Koala..................you have done your part as a decent human being.................THE TRUE RESPONSIBILITY /GUILT/ SHOULD be firmly placed upon the young lady's family...............[what a cruel burden to lay upon a mere child....more so in a foreign country...........shame on them i say]


David

Culutre is a difficult subject....................because we dont live it...............its hard to understand.....................but that does not mean we have to accept it.

When some one moves away from their existing culture..............they should engage with other culutures..........they may then see thier own cultures in a different light..............and realise what a BIG WORLD THIS IS.

An update, long I'm afraid
 

Thank you Nikki and David. Thank you everybody. :grouphug:


I spent 2 hours on the telephone with my cousin last night. She phoned again just now (that was another hour) and I've been trying so hard to get her to see things from my point of view.

My cousin is one of those people who has a very strong personality. You probably know some-one just like her. She's the type that talks over you all the time, and doesn't listen to anything that you're trying to say. She thinks and talks of no-one but herself. Then there's me.... I'm the exact opposite. I am rather meek and thinned skinned. I'm easily hurt and people tend to walk all over me. They use me up until I have no more to give, then they move onto the next sucker...... but enough of me.

When I was talking to my cousin I asked her why Alice is studying here in Oz, and it seems the reason is because there aren't enough university places in China to accommodate all the students seeking placement, so in order to get their qualifications, many students have to head overseas.

The fee her parents paid is not $30,000, it's actually nearer to double that, and because this girl's parents don't have much money, their future as well as Alice's future, all depend on Alice getting these qualifications.

I told my cousin the basics of what you all suggested. I stressed the importance of Alice getting a better education in the English language, (she's 28 and not 23 as I previously thought!) but when I suggested adult education, or deferring nursing and taking English at university instead, I was shot down.

To fulfill her visa requirements she must be studying full time and apparently university English studies don't offer enough subjects to satisfy those requirements. I did suggest that a job filling shelves at a local supermarket would probably give her enough money to pay any extra fees she might need to do another English course, but my suggestion met a brick wall. Alice still will not accept that she has a problem.

I explained to my cousin the importance of seeing a councilor and getting their advice; telling them what Alice has been saying about suicide, and letting them know how badly she is doing so with this first assignment. I told her that they have interpreteurs for Alice to make it easier for her to understand.

Last night my cousin agreed, and said she'd phone today and make an appointment. Today she tells me she can't do this to Alice....that she couldn't put her on the spot with the university, so I let her know that she could either embarrass her by seeking help with a councilor now, or see her off on a plane home to China in disgrace when she fails. I left the decision up to her.

Then I washed my hands of Alice!

I know that I'll probably regret this, but I told her I can't help Alice any more. I've spent nearly two weeks working with her on part one of this 5 part assignment, and she still hasn't finished it.

I am emotionally drained. I'm still terrified that Alice will take her own life if she fails, and I know I will blame myself if she does, but I just don't know what else I can do.

I felt like a coward but I attempted to save face by telling them both that my DD arrives from another state tomorrow, and as I haven't seen her for a whole year, I don't have any more time to work with Alice on this paper. All of that is true, but it worries me so much that these threats from Alice are hanging over my head. I don't need this, especially during my daughter's visit.

I know I did what I could, and I know that it's up to Alice now. I just wish I could shed this feeling of gloom.

We all know you did your best to help her.
But at some point your cousin and "Alice " need to step up and do what is best. And that point is now.

Maybe she needs someone to help her in person, and with a similar language/background.

now you....:)
Enjoy your family time with your daughter:grouphug:

Jo said it so well dear Anne....do enjoy your family time with dd. :hug:

You have done so much for Alice. There is such a cultural and economic difference, it is hard to really understand. But Alice needs to fix this, it is not possible for you to make it work.

But you are truly amazing.