Need help with adult son
 

We have an adult son (33) who is diagnosed with bipolar 2 and alcoholism. We have tried to help him for the past 10 years. Paid for groceries, car payments, insurance etc. His wife and 2 daughters of 13 years just left about 60 days ago and we have everything dropped in our lap. We paid for a year long treatment program for him but when he got there ( we took him) he freaked out and asked for medical attention so they took him to a psy ward. He was there for 7 days and they changed his medicine (again) and now he takes lexapro & seroquel. He had had at least 6 different psychiatrists, been on all sorts of different meds but drinks while taking meds. We are worn out. The straw that broke the camels back was he refuses to go back to treatment. He says he's ready to go back to work ( this has happened over & over) He can't work for more that a few months at a time. He is losing his house on May 4th due to lack of payments. I need help knowing how to keep dealing with this. My husband and I have pretty much decided to let him become homeless - we hope if he hits bottom he will go back for treatment. He has no TV, computer or any money. Just a couch in this house that he will soon be losing. We keep helping but it doesn't really help. I need help !! Any suggestions ???

Hi, and welcome. I wish I had some words of wisdom...my heart goes out to you. It sounds as though you've done everything you could possibly do, and that you've decided on "tough love". It sounds right to me, but who am I? Have you been to any kind of family counseling?

Someone here will certainly have some experience with this type of thing, and you'll get some replies and support. There are no easy answers for your situation. You will be in my prayers.

Hi, DeBryan! :) Wow! You've hit on two subjects which have been very powerful in my own life. My adult son has mental issues, too, and we are going through the same process with him, although he is only 20 and not yet married. If he's drinking a lot along with the pills, the best thing I've seen so far is possibly an in-house support program. We tried a halfway-house, which seemed to do very well at first, except it was poorly run, and I ended up pulling him out because he was sleeping on a wooden slab in a tiny shed with no heat or water, with temps. in the teens. Still, a good program provides stability, regimentation, and compulsive counseling, with the ultimate goal of getting the person back to a normal, working dynamic, and then a regular follow-up monitoring system. I know how your son feels, too, though. I've been chronically ill for seven years, and three times I've gone off all of my meds with the goal of going back to work, with the same results as he has had. I could never maintain for longer than a month or two without the pain disabling me again. Except the problem with me is that I take narcotics, which bars you from most employment these days. I sure hope your son finds his balance, but I understand exactly how you feel, too. My son is close to becoming homeless as well, for the very same reasons. And now he's facing larceny charges for stealing food, too. :confused: We have never denied him food. If you would like to chat about your son, or exchange notes of comparison, maybe we both could shed some light on our similar experiences. I am also posting a link to our Bi-Polar Forum below. Good luck with your son!

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/forum38.html

Taking Responsibility
 

Hey debryan1952,

After many years of alcohol and drug abuse, I was finally diagnosed with bipolar 20 years ago, and, along with getting clean and sober, proper therapy and commitment to my medication regime, I've had a very stable couple of decades. My TBI 8 years ago is a separate issue.

I spent over 18 of my sober years as a drug prevention educator for youth and an alcohol awareness speaker for colleges. I will share some insight with you.

First off, I would suggest exploring the term: "Enabler" using the internet to find appropriate material to study. Realizing the part an enabler plays in the addict's life, is the first stage in removing guilt from the equation, for you.

I would like to share with you a concept I taught in a workshop many years ago now. It is the model of The Drama Triangle. For any drama to perpetuate, there must be three main characters: The Victim, The Persecutor, The Rescuer.

For an alcoholic or drug addict, they are playing the starring role of Victim. They also flit back and forth, persecuting others who try to help, and rescuing everyone with new platitudes or promises to get it together, this time will be different.

The Rescuer does everything in their power to fix the situation. They help to the point of total frustration. They end up also playing the victim, while the alcoholic temporarily takes on the role of persecutor.

The Persecutor is the cop, the banker, the treatment center, the wife, and everyone else who the victim thinks is screwing them.

For you, the rescuer, to get out of this drama created by the victim or addict, you must refuse to play the game anymore. That means dropping the script. Even if you have to say out loud, "I am not going to play this game anymore, and will not rescue you. I choose not be victimized by this unacceptable behavior. I will not play policeman trying to put your life in order for you. It is time you take 100% responsibility for your life!"

Because you refuse to play the game, and consciously step OUT of the drama triangle, the addict or Victim, will most likely try to persecute you, blaming you for their lot in life and other distasteful words. Allow them to vent as necessary. Do not try to rescue at this delicate time. Avoid laying into the addict with a really "heavy" session of release; merely state the facts calmly, gently, and with compassion.

There will be a shift in the alcoholic. They will do 1 of 2 things. First, they may start to see the light and decide to begin taking 100% responsibility for their lives. Second, and quite likely in many cases, they will find others to rescue them, or persecute them. The need to carry around scripts is vital to their identity at this time, and they will start handing out those scripts to any willing players.

When you bring "the game" out in the open, using the terminology I've described, it can be a very powerful opportunity for change. Of course this does not mean that you stop loving the addict, or stop feeling compassion; it just means that you step out of the Drama Triangle. This will allow you to see the situation anew and create new healthy boundaries, in case the individual decides to begin taking responsibility. Blessings2You had a great idea for family counseling, if the addict is willing. This brings a professional into the mix. And the professional will not put up with games.

I have retired from addiction education. I just felt compelled to share some insight with you here, in the hopes that you find the data useful.

Be well,

Don

:)

Hi, and Welcome to NT

There's lots of friendly people who have to same issues with their loved ones. It's hard to deal with. My prayers go out to you all.

There's power in numbers. :grouphug:

Hello and Welcome to NeuroTalk. I really feel for you and your family. I can't imagine how very hard this has been on you. I'm glad Idealist posted; he's a valued and wise member and by his opening up w/his own experience; you know thar your'e not alone in your troubles.

Please know that we are glad you found us and hope your DS can see the way to accept the help he needs.

Take care and keep us posted.

You're doing the very best thing by NOT doing anything more for him. I've been sober almost 24 years now, but I couldn't realize I was an alcoholic till I didn' t have anyone or anything left. I had to hit bottom----and hit it hard----before it gots my attention that I really did have a problem. All the people in recovery that I know had to do the same thing.

Take care of you. And check out Al-Anon. It will help you learn how to take care of yourself instead of trying to take care of your son. You're loving him to death quite literally if you keep picking up the pieces and trying to help him. If an alcoholic doesn't get sober, they're going to die, so if you keep helping, you're actually helping him die. It's very hard to practice tough love. I know because I have addicted kids and I lost my husband to a relapse with heroin almost 9 years ago.

I'll keep you and your son in my prayers. I know how you feel because I've been there. Just take it one day at a time and educate yourself about alcoholism. The internet is a great resource. And I can't urge you strongly enough to check out Al-Anon. It's a wonderful support system.

http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/r.../welcome-3.gif

Hello debryan, and welcome to NeuroTalk.

I can only imagine how painful all of this has been for you and your family. :hug:

NT is a great community, full of people who are willing to listen and offer help. :) Take time to look around, and you will find forums where you feel comfortable posting or just reading what others have posted.

Take care. :)

I help this can help alittle
 

I have major recurrant depression not manic depression but I can see some of my problems in what you have said about your son. When you have psy problems it is hard once you are on your med you feel better and think that it is all done and fall of the wagon to say. I have never been into alcohol or drugs tho but my mom was a drug addict. Even with his illness sometimes you cant do everything. He has to take some responsibility for himself even if it is harder for him than most other people. I hope if he hits rock bottom it will help him relize that he must get help.
sincerly,
Rachel

Help with Adult Son
 

Thank you Don for the insightful information. It really helped me look at the problem and identify our part in it. We did pay for him to go to a rehab but when he got there he claimed he was hearing voices and started freaking out. He then asked for medical attention. They told us they could not refurse someone medical attention when they were asking for it so off he went to a psy ward. It was a year long rehab so I really think it might have helped him get himself back together. Thank you again for the information:)

Trial and Error
 

Let me first say Welcome, and I know from experience with living with a person that is Bi-Polar for 6 years. I was told over and over until they reach rock bottom there is nothing you can do, except be there for them when they fall... First of all when bi-polar is first diagnosed, it is sometimes trial and error on finding which medication is best for them. What works for one doesn't always work for another. And if they drink on top of that, it can't work. Those medications can make the illness worse with alcohol. They get so depressed and sad and hopeless all the sudden, and sometimes suicidal even. My friend started going to AA first to take care of the alcohol problem, once he finally reached the point of no return, they got on bi-polar meds. He still struggles from time to time, mostly because he trys going off the meds, and then he has to go through the process again. It will never be easy, but please know there is hope. So many people are now being diagnosed having bi-polar. There are support groups, counselors, and people that can help you and help him. Never give up, and just take one day at a time.

~ P Reynolds

Rescue
 

Hi debryan1952,

I'm glad the Drama Triangle concept was useful. By the way, arranging for treatment is an action that puts you outside the drama triangle. You are not acting as a rescuer when you support someone to take 100% responsibility for their life. Paying for treatment is tantamount to saying, "The game is up!"

For instance, if someone were in a car accident, the paramedics are not "rescuers" in the Drama Triangle scenario.

Mental illness AND addiction is very common. I've battled the two at once, and although it's tough, it is possible with the right support.

Don

Hi Don:

I just had to respond. In one of your posts, you wrote the following:

"For you, the rescuer, to get out of this drama created by the victim or addict, you must refuse to play the game anymore. That means dropping the script. Even if you have to say out loud, "I am not going to play this game anymore, and will not rescue you. I choose not be victimized by this unacceptable behavior. I will not play policeman trying to put your life in order for you. It is time you take 100% responsibility for your life!"

That's exactly what happened to me 7 years ago. My son was 21 and a gambler. He lost everything. He still gambles, but he threatens suicide every five minutes because he knows THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA will pick him up, dust him off, give him a bus ticket back to his home (we live in NY, he lives in CA), and he's been doing this for 7 years. He refuses to go for treatment. He's been diagnosed with Aspergers and Narcissistic Personality disorder.

I had to disassociate myself from his behavior a long long time ago. Oh, I still get calls from various social workers from time to time when he does his "If you don't bail me out, I'll kill myself", thing that he's been doing for 7 years, but I always tell these people his background story, and they finally understand that we won't rescue him, and he's on his own.

He is 28 now and still behaving like a 10 year old. It's very painful when you have one child and he ends up like this, particularly after going to college. He was bright but never applied it.

So I gather I'll never have any kind of relationship with him. I've never been the type to be a rescuer. It's just not how my brain works. I have friends who wring their hands and say "oh, what will happen to my son, he'll wind up on the street (some of their sons are drug addicts and drinkers), but whatever the addiction, well, it's an addiction and the person has to acknowledge it and deal with it. My son has always said "Gambling makes me feel better".

How sad that never once in his life has he ever said "Oh my god, what have I done to my family". Never!!

But my husband and I have each other and I don't cry over spilt milk. Someone on these message boards even gave this type of behavior a name. Emotional Vampire. These people suck the actual life out of you.

It's hard, but parents have to be strong and not rescue them all the time. They count on this. I remember my son once told me "What the heck do you mean you won't send me any money, and I can't come home, and you won't take care of me? I'M YOUR SON, YOU OWE THIS TO ME, YOU HAD ME"!!!

I never even raised my voice. I knew exactly what his little game was and I wasn't about to play.

I have hobbies and I do stuff to keep me busy.

It's sad, but that's life.

The other day I was standing in a line and there was a young man in front of me who was shaking so bad, another man stepped up to him and said "My god, you are shaking, what's the matter"??

The guy burst out crying and said "I don't know, I like to drink beer, and use pot, but I can't stop shaking". I looked at him and I said "Have you served in the military?" and he began a story about serving in Iraq, and then coming home and working on Wall street and losing his money, etc. etc."

I said 'are you using??" and he said "oh my god, how do you know?" I said: "exactly what are you on right now?" He said "Well, I take ritalin for my ADD, I'm on Ativan for my nerves, I'm on Paxil for my depression" and I said "And you drink and spoke pot while doing this?"

He started to cry. The other man said "listen, give me your phone number, I'll bring you some place, you need help, you need to detox off of all this crap and get your act together". I spoke to him gently, but firmly.

I said "do you have parents?" He said "my mother had to fly out two weeks ago when I was hospitalized for depression because my girlfriend left me".

I said "You need a good support group". Then he said "well, I used to attend AA but I can't stand the Stigma". I said : "what stigma?" and he said "well, the stigma of being an alcoholic".

I said "do you think you are an alcoholic?" and he said "well, I guess I am, I drink beer every day and I have to drink it".

I said "well, you just passed your first hurdle, you admitted you have a problem", now go with this nice man and get some help"


Do you know he hugged me and thanked me and said "I can't talk to anybody about his, you are the first person I've told all this to".

I gather God put me on that line for a reason.

I do hope the guy got help.

Melody

Wow, Melody! That was awesome! :D It's moments like those that we live for, right? I know you must have felt really good leaving that store! :)

I went through the same thing you did with my 20-year-old son. He kept me up until 5:30 in the morning, holding a knife to his own throat, and telling me that if I didn't give him what he wanted he would kill himself just so that I would turn into an alcoholic drug addict and live in remorse the rest of my life for not saving my only son. :confused: That's when it hit me that he was just playing a game. And it's when I finally told him to either use the knife, or put it down, but I was going to bed. He's still drinking and using, and facing a likely long-term prison sentence. I can't change that. I spent years of time and thousands of dollars trying to. But now he knows that he's not welcome in my home anymore until he takes care of his problems. There is simply no trust left. It's weird how life works out, isn't it? To be able to help total strangers, but can't get through to one's own son? I hope DeBryan is learning a lot from this thread. :)

Hon.

Your post moved me more than you can know. We walk in each others shoes now don't we?

Love, Melody

Stranger
 

Hi Melody,

Thanks for your post. Sounds like you have deep understanding of how not to be a rescuer, and play any games.

Your intervention with the guy in the line-up at the store was not rescuing. It was based on the stark truth the man needed to face, and the opportunity for him to stop playing the victim.

Good for you.

After I became clean and sober, I blamed my parents for my addiction. I blamed the fact that I was physically and emotionally abused as a child and grew up in a dysfunctional family. These were ruthless victim tactics. It took a lot of work on myself to finally learn that I was 100% responsible for my life. Actually, I was the addict, the one with a physiological and psychological disorder - I could not drink like normal people. After forgiveness of my parents for a less than perfect upbringing, I began living a very healthy life emotionally.

Don

Hi Don:

I did not get to the point where I am, well, let's just say it was not easy.

During my son's childhood (and believe me, he was my only son, we were close, I was a mommy, I did all the mommy things mommies are supposed to do, I even made an appointment with his pediatrician when I was pregnant because I had bought a baby book and it said "Get to know your new baby's doctor".

You should have seen the doctor's face when I walked in pregnant and he's looking around for the "child" who had the appointment, and I said "no, it's just me, I'd like you to be my son's doctor, and I wanted to introduce myself to you". No one had ever done that before and he said "wow, good for you", and he shook my hand, and he was my son's doctor until my son no longer needed a pediatrician. Best thing I ever did. I felt good about doing that.

But his behavior in school, his tantrums, his wanting his way, well, it was very hard. We did the tough love meetings, we took him to the Scared Straight Program (with all the convicted murderers), well...we did everything.

He seemed to get his act together and after the age of 15 (when he went off on his father and started screaming if he had a gun he would kill him), well, let's put it this way. IT WAS A BIT UNSETTLING. I was not home and Alan did not know what to do. I said "why didnt' you call the police?" and my husband said "I didn't do it because I thought of you and I didn't want to upset you". I looked my husband right in the face and said "I would have called the police".

My son acted out again the next day, and we put him in the back of our car and marched him to the police station. Guess what we were told "it's too late, you should have pressed charges last night".

Oh, I forgot to mention the PINS Petition we took out on him. I will never forget going to the place where one gets a PINS petition and all these lines of families were there to do the same thing. Hundreds of parents with hundreds of misbehaving children. The parents looked exhausted. I knew exactly how they felt.

But after the meltdown at age 15, well he never did it again. He went to his high school classes, came home and went on the computer. He never stayed out late. We were very close. He went to college on a full scholarship. He never missed a class. He graduated, and as I said, (telling us he was going to game design school in Arizona), he got on a plane (he made absolutely all the reservations, appointments, EVERYTHING, all my himself. Never thought a 20 year old could do all of that.BY HIMSELF!!
But he did it. He went to Arizona, scouted it out for two weeks, got himself a roomate, and came home. That was in November of 2001.

We all tried to talk him out of moving but his mind was made up. So after Christmas and New Years, on January 2, 2002, he got on a plane (we took him to the airport), and that was it. It all went down hill after that. He never went to game design school, he maxed out his credit cards, gambled online (he must have done it while living at home, but I never saw it).

That's the last time I saw my son. My husband traveled to Las Vegas several years ago to meet up with him. And to try and talk him out of gambling, but my husband did not succeed. In fact my son lost everything in Vegas and needed money to get home. My husband called me and I said "don't give him any money". My husband gave it to him, and my son did pay my husband back".

I would have never done that but that's water under the bridge and that was several years ago.

So fast forward to now and he's still going to Vegas and still losing money and still doing his thing.

How sad. Sometimes I feel that I wasted 20 years of my life. I gave up a job, (I had no choice, his behavior necessitated my leaving my job), so I got a job doing typing at home.

If I could turn back the clock, oh well, we can't go back now can't we??

thanks for letting me express myself.

Melody

Sharing
 

Hi Melody,

Thank you so much for sharing. I read every word and feel for you. A very sad story. All you can do at this point is know that you did your very best for your son and let forgiveness heal.

Don

welcome to neurotalk ... there are lots of friendly and supportive people here... i see you have been given a good starting point so jump right in and start posting ... should you need help, don't hesitate to ask someone ... we are here to help