Waves...
 

Dear Waves,
I am glad that you posted.
It is so hard experiencing grief alone.
know that we are here for you.
If you want to jsut get the feelings out here do that without going into the details...that is fine.
I am sorry you are grieving...grief takes as long as you need it.
((((HUG))))
beth

Thank you
 

Dear Beth,

thank you for the thread. :hug: i might do that... i will think about it... a little later on. i have been crying too much as it is, my eyes are ready to fall out of my face. so right now, i am so-so and i don't want to get myself started just yet. i just had hot milk and am hoping to sleep some instead of crying all night.

but i will be back. it will be back.

it hits me in hard, crashing... and crushing ... waves.

~ waves ~

Waves,

I'm thinking of you. We'll be here for you.

Barbara

Waves

Sending some hugs and thoughts.

Donna

Waves grief does come down crashing, like huge tidal waves, and out of the blue. Everything you are feeling is normal.

I just want to share something with you.

5 myths about grief

The Myth

1. We only grieve death.
2. People should leave grief at home.
3. We grieve in slow predictable pattern.
4. Grieving means letting go of the person who died.
5. Grief finally ends.

The Reality

1. We grieve all losses.
2. We cannot control where we grieve or what will trigger our grief.
3. Grief is an uneven process with no timeline.
4. Grieving means going on with our life; while maintaining memories, connections, and feelings of grief and loss.
5. Over time, most people learn to live with loss.

It takes time Waves :hug:

Dear Waves,

Please be as ok as you can.
http://bestsmileys.com/hugging/4.gif

On this path sometimes, it is good to let yourself be.
Perhaps (I don't know, not expert, but trying) it is good to let yourself be who you are and where you are.

Maybe those two statments contradict each other.
But maybe not. Maybe you can do both: try to be ok and also fully be where you are.

M.

I hope you don't think I wasn't caring yesterday. I wanted you to laugh to relieve you of some of the pain you are experiencing. I know the pain. I have been in it for about six months. Grief is so consuming. Maybe there is a divine plan. Oh for enlightenment. May your pain ease.
love
bobby

Dear Waves,
Just wanted to let you know that I was thinking about you.
I am sad that you have to grieve and go thru this.
know that you are not alone.
we are here for you.
(((((HUGS))))
beth

going to try to sleep again...
 

well, here i am at 3.30 am again, gonna try to sleep.

past few nights have just cried. in the day i am in a crummy irritable leemmealone sorta mood half down, half numb. then at night when i finally settle down to sleep it seems this huge chasm opens up and wants to devour me from the inside.

i have been wanting to die.

these feelings of annihilation have always caused me to want to die.

(don't worry, i don't have the guts to attempt it by my own hand.)

thank you every one for being here. it means a great deal to me.

Donna and Barbara, for your wishes and presence.

Bobby, it is ok, i understood you were trying to cheer me up i never thought you were uncaring don't worry. i just was uncheerable. i laugh stiltedly at supposed-to-be-funny stuff on tv when i watch with housemates and am expected to laugh.

BJ thanks for the bits on grief. i don't think this will ever end. i need it to be better somehow though. i cannot handle this degree of pain ... it seems only to increase. perhaps because it is coming out of hiding. i don't know.

Mari, on being where i am... i think i have no choice... i feel so floating and helpless right now, there is not much else to be. i have no energy to try to change anything. i don't even have desires to do or change anything. the only desire would be... not to be anywhere at all. nothing is moving forward. it is as though i have already died. in fact part of me has. the rest is just about ready for composting.

Beth... i don't know what to say. again, thank you. :hug: by the way i managed to answer your mail finally.

i'm losing consciousness perhaps sleep will happen before tears tonight. off i go then.

:grouphug:

~ waves ~

Dear Waves,
I hope that you sleep.
I am so sorry that you are hurting.
M.

Sorry your hurting. Hoping soon that you can have some
change.

Not sure what to say, so if its the wrong thing just realize
I'm here.

Donna

i slept
 

Hi.

Donna, you have said nothing wrong... on the contrary, i do very much appreciate your posts of support to me here. thank you.

Mari amazingly i managed to sleep. at night. i started to get into the teary place again but i managed to move my mind just a few times and i was so tired that was all it took before i was passed out thankfully. so i was asleep before the acute pain hit. i have learned "move my mind" some when i need to - for instance, but not only, away from thoughts of self-harm and such, but when it is very pervasive, it is very difficult to keep it up. also the worse i feel the harder it is. it isn't all a "thinking" thing as they would have us believe in cognitive therapy... at least, in my experience.

besides with grief you have to allow the emotions SOME space. sure they cannot run your life, but you cannot push them away all the time, that is baaaaad. i allowed them at first - i had no choice i was overcome. but at some point i started resisting - i think because of underlying beliefs i was supposed to be ok by then. but over the years have realized the resistance is not only wearing thin, it is not really helpful. it has helped the world around me, not me. i wonder how much this grief actually underlies some of my past depressions. i now suspect some have been worsened by this, if not indeed a pure manifestation of it.

now i am awake and feeling grumpy. somehow when other people (my parents) are around/awake i have on an outer shell and everything turns to grumpiness. i feel bad it must be hard on them. when i cry it is hard on them i think too. they don't try to comfort me or hug me or sit with me any more they just act like i'm part of the furniture when i cry. and i mean even crying violently. but it must be hard having a piece of furniture around that cries violently from time to time (a lot lately) and is grumpy or dysphoric at other times.

i have been trying to contribute to the household by doing dishes every night whenever mom accepts. she has a problem with a finger - arthrosis, and bending it including washing dishes hurts. so even though i can't say i feel like it and am tired i offer to do it, because it seems i can get through it and by the end of the day she is very worn out. other household tasks are too hard on me, or too micromanaged.

i know that has not much to do with grief but it does sort of ... like i have to compensate at home... for my overall dependent existence, for being such a drag, for not being employed, for not having a life... for being... essentially a compost heap. i latched onto dishes when my mother asked me herself a few nights ago. i realized perhaps here was something doable for me that would make a difference.

i need to feel like i am making a difference, as much as the difference itself is needed. it is not a totally selfless act. :o

~ waves ~

therapy for grief?
 

i see my therapist on thursday. we have been dealing with something else totally and uncertain why my moods have been so wild, accentuated by deep depressive stints and dysphoria - apparent mixed moods and cycling..... but i don't think it is that. i think the dysphoria happens during PMS. the grief is always there and is at the base of the depression. thinking back, there have been several subtle triggers this year that i only just remembered.

now i have to decide if he can help me with this or not. i think a live support group would be better for me, but he never seems to know of other resources. he is more thought-minded than emotion minded. i think i need someone emotion-minded and perhaps with experience with this sort of grief to help me. i don't know. i mean... he's a pdoc and a psychotherapist as well..... he has helped me with judgement and shame before....... but this seems different.

:confused:

what are you guys' thoughts on this? any?

also, do you think an antidepressant would make any difference for me? (i am already on a stabilizer.) i don't think it makes sense to turn off the feelings with an AD... but then, i don't see how it could. but maybe it would make them more manageable.

any thoughts on that?

~ waves ~

questions about your meds
 

Dear Waves,

I'm glad you got some sleep.
Since your pdoc/ tdoc does not know of any more therapy resources for you, he should still be able to give you names of people who do.
Would a phone call to a local clinic / hospital help you get connected? I know that when I am depressed I am not capable of making phone calls.
Can you push him to do this for you? Maybe he can call during your session.

Regarding an anti-depressant:
An anti-depressant might be able to bring you up a few levels so that you could feel a little better about getting through the day. Are you usually on a anti-depressant? Is the depression stronger only recently after going off the recent anti-depressant you were on?

Doing the dishes is a a powerful act of courage.

M.

Waves

My personal thought on this is that if you even consider that a support
group/emotional would help. Then go for it. Or if you believe that a
second mind or thought in this problem might help then look into this.

Now about a anti depressant, I personally agree with the thought that
it might or could bring you up. And I would give it a try, a stabilizer
just stabilizes if I understand what my sister has told me.

She is one that has lots of ups and downs in moods. And has lots of
times that she has to really work on her medicines.

I say give all your thoughts a try.

Were here for you.

Donna

Dear Waves,
you are experiencing a great many emotions right now with deep intensity.
You don't always feel this way,
remember that we get to decide what it is that we think about.
you are isolated there, I am hoping that you keep your appointment on thursday and perhaps are able to get out before then.
wishing you some peace of mine today.
know that I care.
((((HUGS))))
beth:hug:

Hi Bizi
I can't decide what to think about when i am in one of my states. my emotions are overwhelming and i wonder how true that is of most bipolars. The only thing i can do is to say it will pass eventually.
Bobby

Dear Waves,
 

Waves,

I wish I could send you some hope that this pain will be reduced soon. :heartthrob:

M.

I wish Waves there was something we could do to help, something to say. My tdoc told me there's emotional grief as well as physical grief. Just stay strong, and know that we're here for you :hug: I have to find something after American Idol and I'll send it by PM. I hope it helps you. :grouphug:

Dear Waves,
I am hoping that you are sleeping right now....I jsut reread your post....
it sounds awful that your parents jsut let you be when you are crying...how awful for you.
I am sorry.:(
beth

Dear Waves,
If you don't mind continuing to check in, keep doing it.
I like hearing from you.
M.

Hi everyone
 

just checking in to say i'm ok. no need to worry.

i don't have a lot to say right now. i am a big blend of anger and sadness and sometimes just floating in numbness... i watched a funny movie and did not manage to laugh much. a cute scene managed to trigger me right at the end too. go figure.

pdoc tomorrow. with the labile moods not sure the AD is a good idea, even though certainly pain is the biggest emotion. i am not sure that an AD would affect pain... that is really what is consistent, and i believe depression but also other emotions are caused by it. :( but adding an AD there is risk of a mixed mood despite being on the stabilizer (i mentioned the stabilizer for those who might worry about me taking an AD by itself; my stabilizer is depakote which in fact does not have anti-depressant effects of its own).

oh about my meds. i had been on zoloft until about february. i had tapered down since december and finally stopped, all due to activation symptoms, and there was no need for the AD - no depression. there was not a clear cut re-emergence of depression after it. the grieving issues having come up around this time of year are likely separate, but do not preclude a possible withdrawal from the AD, or simply a bipolar depressive cycle. i would have expected any withdrawal sooner, but sometimes there is latency. it seems more likely the current moods are consequence of the grief issues which are recurrent and complex.

tomorrow i will talk to my pdoc about the meds again (i would want wellbutrin not zoloft this time - to give the brain a break on the pharmacological mechanisms of SSRIs). i will also suggest we suspend our current topic to help me make some headway or get some direction on this grieving process which has been for years neglected. plus also if he can refer me to any specific group. i would not know where to start looking, and left to my own, i do not feel i am up to it... i will tell him that too and ask if he might look into it for me. then, of course, if i do end up having ideas where to look, and doing so, two efforts are better than none.

well i said more than i thought i could.

thank you all for being here, for your kind words, and for your input.

please forgive me for not replying to the other threads tonight... or at least right now. i have been "trying" to reply all day. i have been reading... am updated on the threads so... i will leave you all a

:grouphug: for now...

i hope that is ok.

it is after midnight. i am going to have some tea, my meds, play some eye-zoner games and try to sleep.

~ waves ~

Good luck tomorrow Waves. :hug: I hope she's able to come up with some answers, some direction. I haven't forgotten about you, I just can't seem to find it right now. :(

thanks and don't rush yourself
 

Thanks. I imagine tomorrow will just be cracking the egg. It had only started to dawn on me what was happening last time.

As for the thing you are looking for... no rush... don't worry. Whenever you find it will be soon enough. I have a bunch of things i need to look for and don't have anywhere near the energy/focus. Heck if i had friends here, i could make an easter egg hunt out of it and have everybody else do the hunting... there's enough "buried" stuff i need to find, you wouldn't believe.... :o and i don't even mean psychologically :rolleyes: although now... THAT would be some easter egg hunt, huh?

~ waves ~

Good luck tomorrow waves.
((((HUGS))))
beth

Hi, Waves,

It is Thursday for you now.
Oh uh it is Thursday here too.
I hope that you feel productive in your pdoc meeting.
Mostly I hope you feel better.

I understand how hard it is for you to write when you don't feel well, so I appreciate when you do.
(No pressure. I'm just trying to say thank you.) :Heart:
M.

I'm off 5 days after today Waves and I'll hunt it down. I hope today you've been able to crack that egg at least a little bit. It's hard work, I know, but I know you can do it. :hug:

Waves,

Let us know how you are doing today after your appt.

Hugs to you.

barbara

feeling yucky
 

hi folks

session went ok.

as usual had a beer before. but then had 2 more after - ugh, too much. not drunk but i have mild headache of the kind that likes to turn into migraine (alcohol sometimes triggers them). my legs hurt. alcohol just doesn't seem to agree with my body any more, even just 1ce a week. and not like even 3 beers is a huge amount. i guess i need to just stay away from it. :o

so ok i am feeling yucky. but as for the session:

got the important stuff on the table, as far as reassessment of psychological/situational v.s. purely chemical status, and setting up for dealing with this thing - therapywise i mean here. we ran out of time and into overtime, at which point pdoc gave me a script for wellbutrin so i can get it right away without having to chase him down should things precipitate. he knows i know the med and the interactions with my current other meds. i have had it before so it is not a new med to me. so he trusts me to manage it in case of activation symptoms, plus i always call to advise of any issues or if i have doubts. i am going to try to do without but at least it's there if i need it.

i will post more another time right now i am really toast.

~ waves ~

Waves,

Sounds like your doc is a good one. I had a couple of beers tonight myself. Three is my limit.

barbara

Dear Waves,
Sorry that you feel yucky.

It seems that you made clear where you are at the moment and where you want to go in future sessions.

I wonder if getting it out like this and explaining your needs made you feel a little better.

M.

Hi Barbara,

i hope beer doesn't give you migraines. :( it seems to be having that effect on me with increasing frequency. it happened once when i had only had ONE beer. other times i had a couple margaritas and nothing happened but i don't have those often so i was probably just lucky. they make margaritas really tiny here, too - in a martini glass. seems like i remember getting them in big mug-glasses like at Chili's. at times i have thought distilled liquor is less of a problem than fermented anything, but i believe i've had migraine with a bloody mary too. which is just vodka in there.

Mari,

thanks Mari. well, thing is, not much.

i just got the "need to change direction" part in. because we were rushed by the time i got off the off-topic chat (avoidance i guess). the issue had already been brought up last time. this time i was more certain of its impact and had recalled some things that upheld that theory. to the point that pdoc pretty much also decided this isn't a bipolar mood swing. in his words, being more emotional may play a part but not every strong emotion or strong state is attributable to being bipolar, and this particular one is very consistent with a reality that would affect a person deeply, bipolar or not. another reason he was hesitant to medicate.

also i feel rather more up in the air because i have doubts as to whether he can help on this. just in a few things i said he wanted to answer in the way of explaining my mom's behavior. well this is a bone we will have to pick, because i know that stuff, but this isn't about how she is, this is about HOW I FEEL, and i need more of support with THAT than a "perspective" of anyone else's behavior. in the process, my point got lost... my point had been the added difficulty in not being able ever to resolve with my mom her involvement. so i ALSO have to deal with not dealing with that, and i WILL need help with that too. that was the point. especially as i am living with the woman and she is triggering me to all heck with analog behaviors to the time of origin of my loss.

it helps writing it out here so i will remember to tell him this (not sure how) next time. but had we not been rushed i would have tried to clarify what i need more, when he did that. the fact that he intervened in that way also supports my sense that he is more thinky... so i am scared (yes, scared, because i can't imagine doing this with another therapist because of the level of trust and degree of ehh "comfort" ;) i already have with him. never mind i can't afford another therapist. but he can only do what he can do. i need supportive therapy and guidance at an emotional level now, less than at a cognitive level. some guidance at a cognitive level is always appropriate, but cannot take the place of the other. not for this. so i am scared i will be up the stinky creek without a therapist... not that i will lose him... just feel very shaky about whether he can help. remains to be seen. may have to just do the best we can.

i asked him to look into peer support group for me. he told me with a sigh that it would be difficult because it is not so fashionable here. :rolleyes: i pleaded with him to try and ask around through his contacts... in case. he said he would ask, but not to get my hopes but because it was not a very common thing. then he suggested i look around on the internet. i nearly died. i told him a friend had done that for me but i am not able to research it much myself... i get ... (i shook my hands), so please would he see what he could find. i think he will look. i wish he would look via internet as well, but probably not. i don't know, i don't care, if he comes up with something good if not oh well.

i do feel a little better having the med script. i don't have to worry about it any more, even if it takes me some time to move on it. i will just let pdoc know if/when i decide to start the wellbutrin.

off again i need pills for my migraine... it is full-fledged today. it is not a hangover headache caused by dehydration. i had plenty of water all through last night (couldn't sleep anyway). i slept poorly this morning with mom making big noises and my feeling too tired to get up and make for the earplugs.

i really need to set my mind to order non-alcoholic bevs, even if i want to go to a bar for other reasons. then if i still have more than 1 per month i will see about a triptan. but prevention is better than cure.

k. off with me now... gotta get me 600mg ibuprofen down the gullet, fast, and away from bright screen... pain is escalating.

:Sigh:

~ waves ~

i am so sad and frustrated that you are suffering so. I can easily relate to it.
Life seems to get harder and more painful. You are so sensitive. I probably sound as if I am preaching and maybe I am. How do you learn to really love yourself and think you are precious? We as bipolars have an easy time recognizing our short comings...the more we remove ourselves from the mainstream, the easier it is to feel the short comings and the pain from the past. I have convinced myself that the only thing that can help me is faith..faith that is with me all the time. I have been totally miserable for over half a year now. I just keep on coming back to that. Through faith maybe i will really feel love for myself. Do you feel love for yourself? I AM A LOT OLDER THAN YOU AND I STILL HAVEN'T GIVEN UP HOPE.
lOVE YOU
bOBBY

Dear Bobby
 

Thank you for your message

I am glad you haven't given up. I really hope things get better for you soon, you so deserve it. :hug:

i need to just nurse this f---ing migraine now :mad: :( :o ... it can last well over a day...

love,

~ waves ~

I wish it weren't so hard on you guys....
sending healing hugs to you both
(((((HUGS))))
love beth

Most of you have probably heard Whitney Houston sing the words "learning to love yourself, it is the greatest love of all," and so it is. I believe it is what all of us need, yet it's what so few of us truly have. How is it that we don’t love ourselves--and how do we learn to love ourselves?

I'm sorry you felt rushed Waves, I know how that feels. So much to say but so little time. I honestly think they don't realize how hard it is and how many minutes go by where we are in a zone, or out of the zone. I'm not sure if I said that right. :confused: It seems like the door may be open and I hope you're able to work through some of these emotions :hug:

BJ
 

Hi BJ,

i am not sure if i love myself. i think perhaps i do because if i didn't... well, i am not sure i'd be here now. also i like things about myself. (not everything!) then other times i am not so sure because it seems i am not very nice to myself. i do not take care of myself very well.

as for the rushing... yes, i mean, there is next session. we can pick up where we left off. or rather i need to specify the things i didn't and then pick up... somewhere.

he didn't rush me out of the office either, since the medication issue was important. i did it all to myself, in a way, by derailing the first part of the session.

My pdoc is a good guy. I know he has his areas of talent and less talent. Psychology and sensitivity is a greater talent with him than perhaps even medicine really. His approach with meds is conservative - which is in sync with my preferences. I was taking a fistful of pills with my former pdoc, and still having to face adjustments every so often. Now, i take 2 meds, 4 if you count the as needed ones which i hardly ever use. Otherwise i literally only take 2 pills every night, that's it.

But i've gone off track again... sigh. It seems like i WANT to derail. As it is i am excruciatingly sensitive right now my mom said something over dinner and i'm sure she has NO CLUE how closely linked it feels to me and to this grieving stuff, but it was and oh man, i said twice i didn't want to hear any more about it, and had she not complied i would have had to leave the table.

But i was saying my pdoc/tdoc is a good guy and psychology/psychotherapy is one of his strong points and original area of interest (i asked him what led him to become a psychiatrist). So, even if he leans on the thinky side, he can probably help some. Certainly he will listen. I think i will need to journal to help us home in on my needs and that is scary. Because i am scared of it being lost/found/read by someone else. But anyway, regardless of my or any specific situation, i am sure he is no stranger to the processes of grief and mourning so, I probably need not despair. He surely can help some.

I might need to be mindful of the "cognitive/left-brained" rudder of his and adjust it sometimes. Journaling will help with that. Help me place emphasis.

You know, i really thought i was much better ... more over this ... than i seem to be. This year really hit me by surprise. We had worked on certain aspects last year and i had felt "lighter." Now i am realizing, perhaps it is in fact that work that is actually allowing me to feel more now, where before i was perhaps suppressing/repressing a lot more.

I know it will never, ever go away completely. But i need it to be better than this. Currently going out is not just difficult because of feeling down. Sometimes, like right this minute, i don't feel down. But when i go out i am often overloaded with triggers. i have learned over years not to react, outwardly. I can even engage positively sometimes. But there is a cutting edge to it. I hope that cutting edge can at least be blunted... for real... not by repression. :o I want some peace. I NEED some peace.

~ waves ~

Dear Waves,
 

Dear Waves,
Mostly this is a good report.
Maybe I am happy to know that you see him regularly.

Regarding my mother issues in general (not yours -- talking about mine): I think that they are deep and perhaps lifelong.

I read a really good book about 15 years ago about women's passages with their mothers. I wish so much that I still had that book. It was all case studies -- still very useful.

M.

posted here as well....
 

Dear Waves,
This sounds like awful cycling....
This also sounds like chemicals too...like maybe this is more than just grief.
Grief alone is hard ...but then throw bipolar into the mix and you really have trouble.
I wonder if you will get your welbutrin prescription filled.
How long have you been on depokote?
Do you think this mood stabilizer is still working for you?
Is trileptal available there?
You can't get lamictal is that right?
I am sorry that you are feeling this badly.
there are hot line numbers to call if you are ever in need of talking to anybody, the chat rooms here are very slow but there are people chatting usually in the psychcentral chat rooms, sometimes I go there when I want to talk to someone. I will try to get the link for you. you have to register and I don't remember that being a big deal.
I am sorry this is so hard for you right now.
((((HUGS)))
beth

http://forums.psychcentral.com/chat/

this is a link to the chat rooms, you will have to register but that is easy.
psychcentral is a huge forum with many many different areas of support, they are our parent forum though some folks don't realize this.
I will scan the menu to see if there are any grief specific forums there.
((((HUGS))))
beth